M1 Garand on full Auto

[Sdiver]

No, you didn't read the title of this thread wrong ....

Okay, you gents are going to like this one. Stopped by a local gun store tonight to pick up a few boxes of 30.06 for the Garand. One of the owners, an older gent came out from behind the counter to assist me. I told him what I was looking for and he pulled out a couple of boxes and said these (the box in his hand) weren't that bad. Not a bad price either. He asked me what the ammo was for, where I told him it was for the Garand. He then said something that made me scratch my head.

He told me to look out for ammo with "soft primers." That when you fire off a round, and that the Garand has a somewhat of a "floating" firing pin, that ammo with these "soft primers", could make the Grand continue to fire, even though you're not holding down the trigger. Now granted a Garand, even with a full clip is only going to fire eight rounds, but what he was saying, really made me scratch my head.

I was going to tell the gent that I thought he was NVTS, but he was/is also happens to be the armorer for this shop. One of the older shops in the area.

So, has anyone ever heard of this, these "soft primers" making a Garand, or any other weapon go full retard ... errrr ... I mean full auto?

Thanks

Confused in Colorado. :confused: :munchin

[Streck-Fu]

I have heard of slam fires from some commercial ammo. In theory, I guess, it could lead to a sequence of slam fires but I have no idea how probable that is.

After reading this, I did a quick online search to try and remember what I have heard before. Fulton Armory has a page attributing it to loading a single cartridge without using a magazine (LINK (http://www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs%5CAR-FAQs%5CSlamFire2.htm)).

I can't seem to find a report from someone that actually experienced or witnessed it. I'd chalk this up to internet lore.

I have stocked up in M2 ammo from the CMP but now it looks like their lead times are ridiculous....Keep an eye on this Prvi Partisan (LINK (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AP3006CAN&name=Prvi+Partizan+PPU+30.06+FMJ+150grn+500rd+can&groupid=27)) from AIM Surplus. They are out now but get it from time to time.

Federal also makes a round designed for the Garand as well (LINK (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953112253/federal-american-eagle-ammunition-30-06-springfield-m1-garand-150-grain-full-metal-jacket)).

[35NCO]

Yes I have heard of it. It also was used by the ATF in the Olofson Case. (Given, ignore the other aspects of the case considering Olofson did indeed have Auto parts in his gun,) this below excerpt from the cross examination of the ATF's testing seems to support your armorers discussion. I have never personally witnessed this myself, although I suppose it is possible in the right circumstances.

Source: https://www.gunowners.com/Olofson-Petition-for-Certiorari.pdf


(When asked why the AR-15 fired differently in the
two tests, Kingery explained that it was “due to the
ammunition [he] was using”:

Even though it was commercially available
ammunition [in the first test], it was a military
grade ammunition which has much harder
primer than standard civilian ammunition. [Tr.
107, ll. 16-19.

According to Kingery, the “harder primer” ammunition
was designed to ensure that a firearm’s “firing pin”
would not “strik[e] the primer,” and “accidentally”
cause the firearm to “go off.”
Tr. 108, ll. 1-9. However,
when pressed on cross-examination whether the
utilization of a “softer primer” ammunition grade
would increase the likelihood of “multiple firings,”
Kingery denied that the “softer” civilian grade of
ammunition would have had any such effect. Tr. 126,
l. 12 – 127, l. 19.

When pressed further on cross, Kingery was asked
why during the second test he had failed to test the
AR-15 in the semiautomatic position. Tr. 127, ll. 20-
25. Kingery replied, “because I already knew that it
would function.” Tr. 128, ll. 1-2. Yet, Kingery
admitted that, by utilizing a different ammunition, it
was “possible” that, even in the semi-automatic
position, Olofson’s AR-15 could have malfunctioned,
either by “hammer follow” or by misfiring more than
one shot at the single pull of a trigger. Tr. 128, l. 3 –
129, l. 3. )


....To add to the internet lore, there has been discussion in the past that the ATF used very soft primer handloads to make the AR15 function in Full Auto without issues.

[Rob_Frey]

When I started shooting High Power with my Garand, I was warned to get my hand away from the op rod handle as soon as I released it so if there was a slamfire due to the floating firing pin, my hand wouldn't get broken.

[Peregrino]

Soft primers aren't the problem internet lore would have people believe. Slam fires are extremely rare when shooting modern ammo in a serviceable weapon. The risk assessment matrix puts it in the "improbable" category. Yes, the results could be catastrophic but the average shooter with a rifle in serviceable condition has a greater chance of winning the lottery. The issues with commercial ammo are much more complicated than potential slam fires. Commercial ammo - unless loaded specifically for the Garand (e.g. the aforementioned Federal and some Hornady available from the CMP) - has different pressure curves that "can" damage the weapon. Knowledgeable handloaders know this and carefully select bullets and powder to compensate (lots of information available). I recommend anyone shooting commercial spec ammo in a Garand read the following article:

http://www.garandgear.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:shooting-commercial-ammunition-in-your-m1-garand&catid=39

(Yes, they are selling something; however, that doesn't detract from the research and article.)

[Divemaster]

Back when I was on the sniper committee, we went to the Barrett factory to get some work done on our M82A1s. After dropping the guns and touring the plant, probably much smaller in the early 90s than what they have now, Ronnie invited us out to their range to test fire some newly built .50s.

Back then the "range" was a cow pasture with a hill at the far end acting as the bullet stop. This is the first time I fired the relatively new M90 (I think that's what it was), a bolt action .50.

The highlight of the range session, however, was when I test fired a new M82A1 standing off hand. Think something like Longrange 1947's profile pic, but with a much younger and better looking lad (but much worse of a shot) on the gun. I settled into the position, support hand under a full mag. Aiming aimlessly at the hillside, I squeezed the trigger...and got a three round burst. Just to make sure, I did it a couple more times.

"Uh, Ronnie?", I inquire.
"Yeah, we need to take a look at that one back at the plant."

Not sure how many guys have fired a Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle full auto from standing offhand (at least two of us that day). But, come to think of it, that feature could come in handy now and then.