View Full Version : Inside the Muslim mind....
Inside the Muslim mind of a Safafist Leader in Egypt
Islamic Feminism: Muslim Husbands Must Hate Non-Muslim Wives
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/raymond-ibrahim/islamic-feminism-muslim-husbands-must-hate-non-muslim-wives
"...Otherwise what do you do with the undisputed texts [of the Koran], such as “Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred… “O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors…” [Koran 58:22 and 5:51, Yusuf Ali translation]. What do you do with such a verse? What do you do will all these verses?..."
The problem with moderate Muslims is they are not following the Koran.
Streck-Fu
09-19-2013, 07:25
How many modern Christians follow every verse of the bible?
How many Christian Ministers will cut your head off if you don't?
But anyway - you can't follow all the verses of the Koran because all the "peace and love" verses have been abrogated by the "cut their heads off" verses.
So if you follow the "peace and love" verses and not the later verses you are an Apostate - subject to be killed by any "good Muslim".
Streck-Fu
09-19-2013, 08:09
I can live with the moderate muslims that do not strap on an explosive vest for their commute to work just like I can live with the Christians that ignore Deuteronomy.
greenlight
09-19-2013, 08:14
How many Christian Ministers will cut your head off if you don't?
But anyway - you can't follow all the verses of the Koran because all the "peace and love" verses have been abrogated by the "cut their heads off" verses.
So if you follow the "peace and love" verses and not the later verses you are an Apostate - subject to be killed by any "good Muslim".
^^^
This
Edit to add...
infadel
greenlight
09-19-2013, 08:21
Im a man of few words, self assessed be it may but I ask how many of us have actually read the Koran, read it. keep your friends close but your enemies closer. :cool:
Im a man of few words, self assessed be it may but I ask how many of us have actually read the Koran, read it. keep your friends close but your enemies closer. :cool:
My Copy
The Meaning of the Holy Quran
English Translation by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall
1993
From the introduction
"...The Koran cannot be translated. That is the belief of old-fashioned Sheykhs and the view of this writer. The Book is here rendered almost literally and every effort has been made to choose befitting language. But the result is not the Glorious Koran, that inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy. It is only an attempt to present the meaning of the Koran - and peradventure something of the charm - in English. It can never take the place of the Koran in Arabic, nor is it meant to do so..."
The mushaf that was used was a lithographic copy of the Koran written by Al-Hajj Muhammad Shakarzadeh at the command of Sultan Mahmud of Turkey in 1246 A.H.
I keep the copy on my work desk.
Good catch on the "abrogation" piece Most don't understand this construction.
My argument is that you CANNOT be a "good" Muslim and an American at the same time. Simply can't happen.
MiTTMedic
09-19-2013, 11:38
Define "moderate Muslim". Given that the Koran encourages lying to get your way, and (from what we are told) the "sleeper cells", how do you know that a "moderate Muslim" is moderate?
I can live with the moderate muslims that do not strap on an explosive vest for their commute to work just like I can live with the Christians that ignore Deuteronomy.
You don't see the difference between someone attempting to influence your soul with a creed and someone attempting to dominate your total lifestyle?
There are great numbers of Muslims in the US who would consider themselves "Moderate" Muslims.
The only problem is that their very own religion considers them Apostates.
But that "problem" can be fixed once a greater number of "good" Muslims are in place.
For all you "moderate" Muslims out there reading this - IT AIN'T US SAYING THAT. We are just repeating what the Muslim leadership in the Middleeast is saying.
The Reaper
09-19-2013, 11:47
Good catch on the "abrogation" piece Most don't understand this construction.
My argument is that you CANNOT be a "good" Muslim and an American at the same time. Simply can't happen.
The scary part is that any muslim can change and be radicalized at any time, apparently without much notice.
So the first time you notice your neighbor, fellow soldier, or associate has converted is when he has a gun or a knife in his hand and is shouting "allahu akbar."
TR
greenlight
09-19-2013, 12:12
My Copy
The Meaning of the Holy Quran
English Translation by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall
1993
From the introduction
"...The Koran cannot be translated. That is the belief of old-fashioned Sheykhs and the view of this writer. The Book is here rendered almost literally and every effort has been made to choose befitting language. But the result is not the Glorious Koran, that inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy. It is only an attempt to present the meaning of the Koran - and peradventure something of the charm - in English. It can never take the place of the Koran in Arabic, nor is it meant to do so..."
The mushaf that was used was a lithographic copy of the Koran written by Al-Hajj Muhammad Shakarzadeh at the command of Sultan Mahmud of Turkey in 1246 A.H.
I keep the copy on my work desk.
now that's what I'm talking about.
Moderate Muslims exist in all of the ME countries...everywhere. They stand by, go about their business, as the more 'involved' Muslims burn Church's , kidnap/rape/ force convert young Coptic girls.
They will not lift a hand or a voice against the more 'involved' Muslims as the more involved Muslims have scripture and Imams/Mullahs underwriting that action.
Moderate Muslims in our society look/act in a moderate way...they are the minority by far in this Judeo Christian culture and they know it.
They would act in a similar manner in the ME as those described above.
Pick any majority Muslim country and see how they treat non Muslims when they are in power.......lots of moderates there yet the killing/raping/acid burning/ etc. continues.
Benevolence
09-19-2013, 12:25
I think that Sam Harris' discussions on this are pretty good (while I don't agree with him all the time).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKLV6rmLxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCOQukCn0kg
greenlight
09-19-2013, 12:27
There is a difference between the 'nice ones next door' and the ones who shall we say radical,
Colonel out
There is a difference between the 'nice ones next door' and the ones who shall we say radical,
Colonel out
The difference is this...your 'radical' Muslim practices according to Scripture/Sira/Hadith....your 'nice one next door' does not practice Islam as it is written/ demonstrated by Muhammad nor presented by its clergy.
The problem PRB is that the "moderates" won't lift a hand to keep you from having your head severed.
There are ONLY three ways to deal with Islam so far as Islamists are concerned: 1) Convert; 2) become a Dimmhi; 3) Die. There are no other options.
The reason that the "moderates" don't say anything is exactly as Pete stated - they are considered apostates by the "real" muslims. Sure, they want to go about their business in peace, but they also don't want their heads sawn off trying to deter the true-believers from enslaving the world. So...we are forced into an uneasy interval wherein we wait for the next case of "SJS" (Sudden Jihadi Syndrome).
Islam: The Religion of Peace and they'll kill you to prove it.
Guymullins
09-19-2013, 14:02
With the constant threat of violence from Muslims, who may suddenly change from moderate to extremist, is for the rest of us to live as Moderate Crusaders, who may also erupt as extremists should it be necessary.
The problem PRB is that the "moderates" won't lift a hand to keep you from having your head severed.
There are ONLY three ways to deal with Islam so far as Islamists are concerned: 1) Convert; 2) become a Dimmhi; 3) Die. There are no other options.
The reason that the "moderates" don't say anything is exactly as Pete stated - they are considered apostates by the "real" muslims. Sure, they want to go about their business in peace, but they also don't want their heads sawn off trying to deter the true-believers from enslaving the world. So...we are forced into an uneasy interval wherein we wait for the next case of "SJS" (Sudden Jihadi Syndrome).
Islam: The Religion of Peace and they'll kill you to prove it.
Read it again...that's what I said.
Trapper John
09-20-2013, 05:51
Inaction is a conscious choice. For "moderate" muslims to stand by passively while their radical brothers are committing heinous acts is nothing more than tacit approval of those acts. I think we a have a description for that - aiding and abetting? Passivity in the face of crimes against humanity is not a defense.
Inaction is a conscious choice. For "moderate" muslims to stand by passively while their radical brothers are committing heinous acts is nothing more than tacit approval of those acts. I think we a have a description for that - aiding and abetting? Passivity in the face of crimes against humanity is not a defense.
Probably just waiting until there are no more infidels to behead and things calm down.
It's the ones in taqqiya mode who give me a caution. For all we know, one or two may be in positions of political power.
I had a case a couple years back where a Muslim man came to me upset he was on a no-fly list. He hired me to remove it. Now, FISA (good luck finding an answer to mail your pleadings/motions) has redactions that are laughable where a 1000 word internal dod, cia, dea, fbi, etc, memo has a few pronouns and dates listed. No names, places, etc.
The point being this non-religious Muslim is now likely radicalized, a cursory result of our government punishing him (restricting his ability to travel). It's cursory because, as I explained to him, his religious leaders fail to push any moderate message. The clerics push external versus internal jihad, and the results are clear to anyone. When moderates and non-religious Muslims fail to push back internally against extremism then they give up any goodwill Americans may afford them.
There's wackos in any religion; it's the nature of thinking you're right about something completely unprovable that generally yields extremism. Unfortunately, whereas most major religions have moderates who temper the extremists' view, Islam has a methodology of consistently drowning out any opposition to moderate thinking/actions.
TL;DR Moderate Muslims do exist but they need to build sway within their own religion, otherwise they have to expect Americans and other civilized people will do everything we can to protect ourselves from Islam since it's proven to be a "our way, or no way" mentality manifesting itself in extreme violence against non-Muslims.
Tunisian women waging 'sex jihad' in Syria: minister
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tunisian-women-waging-sex-jihad-in-syria-minister.aspx?pageID=238&nID=54822&NewsCatID=352
"Tunisian women have travelled to Syria to wage "sex jihad" by comforting Islamist fighters battling the regime there, Interior Minister Lotfi ben Jeddou has told MPs.
"They have sexual relations with 20, 30, 100" militants, the minister told members of the National Constituent Assembly on Thursday.
"After the sexual liaisons they have there in the name of 'jihad al-nikah' - (sexual holy war, in Arabic) - they come home pregnant," Ben Jeddou told the MPs......."
In the land of the bizarre things this is normal.
As a side note I remember that verb from Arabic School.
Tunisian women waging 'sex jihad' in Syria: minister
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tunisian-women-waging-sex-jihad-in-syria-minister.aspx?pageID=238&nID=54822&NewsCatID=352
"Tunisian women have travelled to Syria to wage "sex jihad" by comforting Islamist fighters battling the regime there, Interior Minister Lotfi ben Jeddou has told MPs.
"They have sexual relations with 20, 30, 100" militants, the minister told members of the National Constituent Assembly on Thursday.
"After the sexual liaisons they have there in the name of 'jihad al-nikah' - (sexual holy war, in Arabic) - they come home pregnant," Ben Jeddou told the MPs......."
In the land of the bizarre things this is normal.
As a side note I remember that verb from Arabic School.
Maybe in 10-15 years they'll all pass on from Arafat disease, i.e. gaids, I mean the flu...
As illustrated below the moderate Muslims do what? Nothing. Why, not only because it would mean going against the flow it would also mean challenging elements of the Koran, Hadith, Sira where Muhammad did or allowed the same things to happen.....
"In what seems to be a pattern in many Muslim nations of finding new pretexts to justify anti-Christian—and "anti-Other"—behavior, Egypt's Christians and their churches are under attack, ostensibly because Christians joined the June 30 Revolution, which led to the ouster of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Lesser known is that, even before the revolution back during the 2012 presidential elections, Christians were often threatened and sometimes attacked simply for not voting for the Muslim Brotherhood—an absurd expectation considering that it has long been the Brotherhood and its many Islamist/jihadi offshoots that have terrorized Egypt's Christians for decades.
Even popular columnist Khaled Montasser, an Egyptian Muslim, had scoffed at the idea that Copts could ever vote for Morsi in an article published around presidential elections. Among other things, Montasser documented how the Brotherhood had in years past issued fatwas calling for the destruction of churches and the prevention of burying unclean Christian "infidels" anywhere near Muslim graves. Concluded Montasser, "After such fatwas, Dr. Morsi and his Brotherhood colleagues can ask and wonder—'Why are the Copts afraid?'"
Even so, due to the good showing of presidential Ahmed Shafiq, Morsi's then opponent—many insist he actually won the elections—the Islamists blamed the Copts. Tarek al-Zomor, a prominent figure of al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya—the notorious "Islamic Group" which earlier slaughtered some 60 European tourists during the Luxor Massacre—even "demanded an apology from the Copts" for voting for Shafiq, adding that "this was a fatal error."
Now consider how this same paradigm—threatening Christians to vote for or support the same Islamist leaders who persecute them, or else—has manifested itself in other countries, for example, Pakistan.
According to a May 20 report by Morning Star News,
A Muslim political candidate suspected of murdering a Christian has instigated calls from mosque loudspeakers for attacks on Christians, whom he blames for his May 11 election loss. Tensions were high in Punjab Province's Okara district after provincial assembly seat candidate Mehr Abdul Sattar, sought by police in connection with a 2008 murder, on May 13 arranged for mosque calls for violence against Christian villages. "Burn their homes to the ground … Punish them such that they forget Gojra and Joseph Colony," was the cry from village mosques in the district [emphasis added].
"Gojra and Joseph Colony" are references to two separate incidents when Pakistani Christians were especially persecuted: in 2009 in Gojra, eight Christians were burned alive, 100 houses looted and 50 homes set ablaze after a blasphemy accusation; and last March in Joseph Colony, Lahore, some 3,000 Muslims attacked Christians, destroying 175 homes and burning their churches, again, because a Christian was accused of insulting Islam.
And the calls for violence against the Christians who did not vote for Mehr Abdul Sattar have been effective. Among other things, his supporters ambushed a convoy of about 100 Christians on their way to congratulate his opponent on his victory.
Though notified, police failed to respond. This is unsurprising, considering that Sattar himself is connected to the murder of Javed Masih, a Christian who had opposed him in a 2008 election, according to the Morning Star News report.
"The late Javed Masih used to tell the peasants to vote according to their conscience and not get intimidated by gangsters like Mehr [Abdul Sattar]," said Younas Iqbal, chairman of a peasant movement fighting for land rights: "His efforts bore fruit, and Mehr lost the general election in 2008. Unfortunately, Masih had to sacrifice his life for the cause, while several others were injured in an armed attack by Mehr's men.
This latest "humiliating defeat further stoked anger in Mehr, and he's now bent upon punishing us," added Iqbal, pointing out that Sattar has targeted no Muslims for opposing him.
If modern systems of governance, such as voting, elections, and democracy are being utilized as new ways to persecute Christians and other minorities in countries such as Egypt and Pakistan—which differ in many ways except for the practice of Islam—intimidation by fundamentalists is alive and well across the Islamic world.
Raymond Ibrahim is author of Crucified Again: Exposing Islam's New War in Christians (published by Regnery in cooperation with Gatestone Institute, April 2013). He is a Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center and an associate fellow at the Middle East Forum