View Full Version : Petraeus Heckled at CUNY
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/09/david-petraeus-protest-cuny-video.html?mid=twitter_dailyintelligencer
ddoering
09-12-2013, 14:00
Pathetic pieces of shit. I have less respect for Americans every day. The only ray of hope is that when our Chinese overlords take over they will work these dumbasses to death rather quickly.
The Reaper
09-12-2013, 14:39
Well, I guess I should expect no better from a group of privileged young elitists with no respect for the rights of anyone who disagrees with them.
I agree, these budding little socialists will not fare well under either Chinese Communist or islamic rule, whichever takes over first.
TR
College students behaving like...well, college students. I'm shocked.
Richard
Utah Bob
09-12-2013, 18:10
College students behaving like...well, college students. I'm shocked.
Richard
Pretty much ;)
In Boulder, they''ve been telling CU students to say in their dorms due to the flooding and stay away from the creek which is running at biblical levels and threatening to collapse the bridge.
Guess where they all went?
ddoering
09-12-2013, 19:08
College students behaving like...well, college students. I'm shocked.
Richard
So that's an excuse now for acting like jackasses......
Obviously it is a place of higher learning. I'm sure their parents are proud.
So that's an excuse now for acting like jackasses......
Obviously it is a place of higher learning. I'm sure their parents are proud.
I neither said nor implied acceptability; only that such behavior has been exhibited by college-age students long before any of us were ever thought of and will probably continue by future generations of college students long after we're gone. Period.
Richard
The Reaper
09-12-2013, 20:02
It seems to me that the increasing hypocrisy of the left is that the libs constantly attempt to deny freedom of speech to those they differ with, but demand respect for their own champions as a First Amendment right.
Those who would advocate the destruction of America are to be given their opportunity to speak, but someone who has actually served this country and made history is to be heckled and harassed.
Don't just claim that you are for diversity, support it by allowing balanced viewpoints. Be respectful, even if you disagree.
Finally, I would maintain that GEN Petraeus is a bargain at his salary, in terms of his first hand knowledge and understanding he brings to the university.
TR
College students behaving like...well, college students. I'm shocked.
Richard
Richard! Where are your rose colored glasses? It is this darned present clouding your memory. Students were all respectful back in the 1960's and 70's.
Last time I was on a campus (about a month ago) I saw the same mix I always see.
1. Hard working serious engineering students (actually all of the sciences)
2. The students whose parents are well heeled so they attend but not much more is expected or occurs.
3. The save the world students who tend to be liberal arts and are a mix of naive, indignant, angry and lost.
4. Jocks taking business courses
5. Outliers who don't quite fit any of the 4 above perfectly and just get through it. They tend to be paying their own way.
Must have been a slow news day.
ddoering
09-12-2013, 20:07
I neither said nor implied acceptability; only that such behavior has been exhibited by college-age students long before any of us were ever thought of and will probably continue by future generations of college students long after we're gone. Period.
Richard
And I would beat every one of them with a baseball bat until they absorb a good lesson in manners.
And I would beat every one of them with a baseball bat until they absorb a good lesson in manners.
Yep. That would "teach" them.
Personally, I think the good General's behavior would be a better example of behavior to be emulated.
Richard
Basenshukai
09-12-2013, 21:42
College students behaving like...well, college students. I'm shocked.
Richard
Well, Rich, I actually graduated from CUNY and I never saw this type of behavior there. I don't consider it "normal". We had classes with plenty of professors we may not have agreed with, but there was respect exhibited by the student body there. I don't know where you went to school. But, where I went - and more importantly - when I went, this was not something I would have expected to be normal for my fellow students.
Maybe I'm just all fucked up and not in tune with the times as you seem to be.
Well, Rich, I actually graduated from CUNY and I never saw this type of behavior there. I don't consider it "normal". We had classes with plenty of professors we may not have agreed with, but there was respect exhibited by the student body there. I don't know where you went to school. But, where I went - and more importantly - when I went, this was not something I would have expected to be normal for my fellow students.
Maybe I'm just all fucked up and not in tune with the times as you seem to be.
I prefer Richard.
Young people with still developing forebrains letting their emotions surface in such outbursts of rude behavior - unheard of. :rolleyes:
FWIW - my anecdotal experiences differ from yours as I either saw such behaviors amongst portions of student bodies or heard educators speak of it on nearly every campus (high school, college, or university) I ever attended, visited, or had dealings with during my time in education, either personal or professional, from the mid-60's through the first decade of this Century, and throughout the US (including NY at NYU, Columbia, and RTI), Europe, and in SEA (where I watched large bodies of students from Chulalongkorn University riot in what became an overthrow of the government at that time).
In the history of education, it goes back far beyond that and I doubt it'll end during our lifetimes, especially if we continue to encourage "free thinking" and "freedom of expression" as a cultural norm within our society.
Universities are large, interactive bodies, with many things occurring of which we may not be aware while attending to our education - unless something like this is communicated through some form of media or other communication network.
I think we all realize that GEN Petraeus is a nationally recognized figure who, because of his role in our recent past, represents an on-going controversial period in our nation's history generating strong emotional currents deeply affecting our culture. I am sure this is neither his first nor last experience with such heckling groups, but I am a bit surprised that anyone would find it so out of the norm from a group of college age students. It happens to every POTUS - why should someone like GEN Petraeus be exempt from such displays of dissatisfaction of our government's policies?
How long did it take this nation to - for the most part - come to grips with our involvement in Vietnam? I think I can answer that one - if the recent controversies surrounding "The Butler" are any indication, we're still working on it. And I suspect we'll be working on OEF/OIF far beyond my and my son's expectant life spans.
However, there are many who do "get it" - such as these students from the University of the Ozarks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O57oyJ9OnGQ
Sometimes it takes a bit of time, study, experience, and honest self-reflection to understand it all and come to grips with it in our own way.
As for the behaviors of those particular students at CUNY - IMO- boorish, certainly; but unexpected or a representative "norm" of either society or the university's student body as a whole, hardly. However, I suspect they, too, will probably "get it" one day. At least I hope so.
However, YMMV - and so it goes...
Richard
ddoering
09-13-2013, 07:41
Yep. That would "teach" them.
Personally, I think the good General's behavior would be a better example of behavior to be emulated.
Richard
I'm betting it would. A good dose of the real world consequences of having an alligator mouth coupled with a hummingbird ass would be an eye-opener for them. I'm sure they were never paddled by their parents either.
Justifying bad behavior as being a natural thing because their brains aren't fully formed is a specious arguement. I guess you are saying they don't know right from wrong.:rolleyes:
Justifying bad behavior as being a natural thing because their brains aren't fully formed is a specious arguement. I guess you are saying they don't know right from wrong.:rolleyes:
No.
I'm not justifying their behaviors, just pointing out that such behaviors are fairly common among the 13-27 yo group due in great part because of forebrain development which, when developed fully, helps our reasoning and tempering of such emotional impulsivity.
I'm as guilty as anyone for saying and doing things I wish I could re-do during that period in my life as many of my friends and I were of this club:
"Hey...let's do such and such!"
"Great idea!" {which proved to be not such a great idea on a bunch of occasions}
"Oh, crap...what were we thinking!"
"Yeah - we'll never do that again!" {until the next time when we did something else that was just as impulsive, poorly thought-out, and downright dumb}
When reminiscing, I fell pretty fortunate for having survived that part of my growing up years.
And so it goes...
Richard
Roguish Lawyer
09-13-2013, 08:50
Richard, you have acquiesced in the radical cultural change started by hippies in the 60s. That's a shame, as it is the root cause of most of the problems we have in this country.
Richard, you have acquiesced in the radical cultural change started by hippies in the 60s. That's a shame, as it is the root cause of most of the problems we have in this country.
You got me. Damn.
Richard
IMO, this thread is bad mojo.
First, non QP members receive regular guidance to not start threads simply by pasting a link to a news story or a blog. Non QPs also receive guidance to use the search button so that new threads are not started unnecessarily. There are existing discussions about GEN Petraeus, higher education in general, and the conduct of students towards current and former members of the armed services in particular. IMO, the OPs decision to disregard such guidance is bad form because it sets a poor example for newer non QP members.
Second, a theme of many threads and posts at PS.COM is that the fourth estate cannot be trusted. Therefore, goes the logic, MSM reporting should be scrutinized. Yet, when it is convenient, that sensibility seems not to matter. How do we know that the hecklers are, in fact, students at CUNY? Because the piece in the OP says so? Because they look like students? Because the event happend at CUNY? I think that the willingness to go with a MSM report when it is convenient represents one of the most problematic dynamics of this BB. YMMV.
Third, I think some of the posts in this thread reflect an a la carte approach to the Bill of Rights. This approach undermines arguments that the Second Amendment should be treated as sacred by all Americans. If it is all right to punish some Americans for exercising their freedom of speech, then don't be surprised when other Americans decide it is all right to punish other Americans for exercising their rights under the Second Amendment.
Fourth, I think some of comments about CUNY and the Ivory Tower in this thread are too broad brush. The attribution of asshattery of (alleged) college students to their socio economic class or their family life is not sustainable given the information in CUNY's common data sets available here (http://www1.ccny.cuny.edu/facultystaff/ir/index.cfm).
Fifth, phantasizes of violent retribution against American civilians is, IMO, profoundly ill considered-- all the more given the extended period of retrenchment that this country faces. There are members of this BB that pine for the "good old days" (whenever they were). Yet, such reminiscing seems to disregard the fact that the "good old days" were often lean, hard times for the army and its soldiers. Then again, it isn't like the current president and many of his supporters are air power enthusiasts who prefer door-kicking SEALs over teaching and thinking quiet professionals.
Sixth, while it may be emotionally satisfying to think so, ideological absolutism and intolerance in America did not start in the 1960s nor did they originate from the modern American left. But then, why pay attention to American history when we can accept political interpretations of the past uncritically.
Basenshukai
09-13-2013, 12:15
I prefer Richard.
Young people with still developing forebrains letting their emotions surface in such outbursts of rude behavior - unheard of. :rolleyes:
Richard
I don't normally pay attention beyond sarcasm; it's not how I deal with others, Richard. I prefer direct conversation. So, pretty much, that (above) is where I stopped reading.
ddoering
09-13-2013, 13:32
The 2d Amendment specifically states it shall not be infringed. The 1st does not. Indeed, the 1st was tempered by the ability to call one out on what they had said by challenging them to a duel. The would then have to physically defend his speech or eat crow. I would bet that our Founding Fathers would be shocked by that kind of behavior shown by those students. Perhaps a public flogging, a couple days in the stocks or even tar and feathering would be in order to preserve the peace.
jmho.
...Richard...
Thank you; I never go by Rich.
Richard
No matter whether these hecklers were students or not, SEIU members, members of the college republicans, or random citizens spurred on by a vicious youtube video...IMO, what we witnessed was simply freedom of speech abused in a crude and ineffective manner.
I have been on a number of college campuses both foreign and domestic and I always find this type of behavior repulsive - whether I agree or disagree with the professor's views.
The only thing these kids accomplished was to show their ass.
I would bet that our Founding Fathers would be shocked by that kind of behavior shown by those students.It might be bad luck if some guy named Albert Gallatin stepped out of Mr. Peabody's Wayback Machine to settle such a wager.# He put it this way.
The distribution of our little army to distant garrisons where hardly any other inhabitant is to be found is the most eligible arrangement of that perhaps necessary evil that can be contrived. But I never want to see the face of one in our cities and intermixed with the people.*
__________________________________________________
# Harry L. Coles, "From Peaceable Coercion to Balanced Forces, 1807-1815," in Against All Enemies: Interpretations of American Military History from Colonial Times to the Present, ed. Kenneth J. Hagan and William R. Roberts (Westport, 1986), pp. 73-74 provides a revealing thumbnail of Gallatin's understanding of military affairs.
* Alexand Gallatin as quoted in T. Harry Williams, Americans at War The Development of the American Military System, new, enlarged edition (New York, 1962), p. 28.
GratefulCitizen
09-14-2013, 09:47
You can hear the frustration in their voices build when they fail to rattle him.
The hostile young men also seem to be keeping a fearful distance from a man three times their age.
Just a bunch of furious chihuahuas barking from the back window of a parked car.