View Full Version : Sources: US weapons stolen in Libya raids, fueling Special Forces pull-out
TacOfficer
09-11-2013, 23:22
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/11/us-military-weapons-equipment-stolen-in-libya-raids/
:munchin
"..."This stuff is how we win wars. The enemy doesn't have that," one source said...."
Well, it appears they do now - at least some of them.
Trapper John
09-12-2013, 06:20
Located just outside of Tripoli, the camp was supposed to be secured each night by Libyan forces. But on two occasions, the camp was attacked and raided by either militia members or groups affiliated with terrorist organizations.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/11/us-military-weapons-equipment-stolen-in-libya-raids/#ixzz2egEza8XS
Gawly, Sergeant Carter. Suprise, Suprise, Suprise!
And the reason for the pull-out: "No one at the State Department wanted to deal with the situation if any more went wrong, so State pulled its support for the training program and then began to try and get the team moved out of the country."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/11/us-military-weapons-equipment-stolen-in-libya-raids/#ixzz2egFqdTuw
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The State Department and CIA shoud NEVER, NEVER run military operations! :mad:
The Reaper
09-12-2013, 09:20
The answer to this will be to send the teams back in to train, but this time, without any weapons.
The real issue is that we have US soldiers on the ground who are relying on the militias to safeguard them and to secure their weapons while they sleep somewhere else, unarmed!
Thanks DoS. That Benghazi shit was so long ago, and there have been so many changes there. :rolleyes:
TR
Meanwhile - let me direct your attention to the center ring...
Richard
U.S. Weapons Reaching Syrian Rebels
WaPo, 11 Sep 2013
The CIA has begun delivering weapons to rebels in Syria, ending months of delay in lethal aid that had been promised by the Obama administration, according to U.S. officials and Syrian figures. The shipments began streaming into the country over the past two weeks, along with separate deliveries by the State Department of vehicles and other gear — a flow of material that marks a major escalation of the U.S. role in Syria’s civil war.
The arms shipments, which are limited to light weapons and other munitions that can be tracked, began arriving in Syria at a moment of heightened tensions over threats by President Obama to order missile strikes to punish the regime of Bashar al-Assad for his alleged use of chemical weapons in a deadly attack near Damascus last month.
The arms are being delivered as the United States is also shipping new types of nonlethal gear to rebels. That aid includes vehicles, sophisticated communications equipment and advanced combat medical kits.
U.S. officials hope that, taken together, the weapons and gear will boost the profile and prowess of rebel fighters in a conflict that started about 21 / 2 years ago.
Although the Obama administration signaled months ago that it would increase aid to Syrian rebels, the efforts have lagged because of the logistical challenges involved in delivering equipment in a war zone and officials’ fears that any assistance could wind up in the hands of jihadists. Secretary of State John F. Kerry had promised in April that the nonlethal aid would start flowing “in a matter of weeks.”
The delays prompted several senior U.S. lawmakers to chide the Obama administration for not moving more quickly to aid the Syrian opposition after promising lethal assistance in June. The criticism has grown louder amid the debate over whether Washington should use military force against the Syrian regime, with some lawmakers withholding support until the administration committed to providing the rebels with more assistance.
Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), who has pressed the Obama administration to do more to help the rebels, said he felt embarrassed when he met with Syrians along the Turkish border three weeks ago.
“It was humiliating,” he said in an interview Wednesday night. “The president had announced that we would be providing lethal aid, and not a drop of it had begun. They were very short on ammunition, and the weapons had not begun to flow.”
The latest effort to provide aid is aimed at supporting rebel fighters who are under the command of Gen. Salim Idriss, according to officials, some of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity because part of the initiative is covert. Idriss is the commander of the Supreme Military Council, a faction of the disjointed armed opposition.
U.S. officials, speaking about the provision of nonlethal aid, said they are determined to increase the cohesion and structure of the rebel fighting units.
“This doesn’t only lead to a more effective force, but it increases its ability to hold coalition groups together,” said Mark S. Ward, the State Department’s senior adviser on assistance to Syria, who coordinates nonlethal aid to rebels from southern Turkey. “They see their leadership is having some impact.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-begins-weapons-delivery-to-syrian-rebels/2013/09/11/9fcf2ed8-1b0c-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html
Trapper John
09-12-2013, 10:21
Oh for (insert appropriate profanity here) sake. This circus has gotten completely out of control and we are victims of the mushroom theory of management - keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em shit!
U.S. officials, speaking about the provision of nonlethal aid, said they are determined to increase the cohesion and structure of the rebel fighting units.
Yeah, right, in what f'n world do these bozo's live. Damn, I just thought of the perfect theme song for HC's bid in 2016: "Send in the Clowns"
A couple of simple facts are now very clear to me thanks to the posts of MaxTab, Richard, and some of my own digging:
1. Ambassador Stevens was in Benghazi meeting with the Turkish ambassador's envoy to finalize plans for the transfer of Libyan weapons to the rebels thru Turkey.
2. The Benghazi attack was preplanned and deliberate.
3. Stevens' et al were merely collateral damage or possibly targets of opportunity.
4. Piss poor operational planning by DoS and the lack of even the semblance of a reaction plan if things went badly made a response all but impossible.
5. Syria is a proxy war between Russia/Iran and US/Saudi Arabia.
6. The end-game is who gets to run a pipeline (big revenue stream) through Syria to feed oil/gas to Europe.
All of the posturing over the use of chemical weapons, crimes against humanity, blan, blah, blah is merely disingenuous political speak to rationalize a particular course of action.
I say, F' em all and the camels they road in on!:mad:
Streck-Fu
09-12-2013, 10:29
What is the proposed gas/oil pipeline through Syria?
All of the posturing over the use of chemical weapons, crimes against humanity, blan, blah, blah is merely disingenuous political speak to rationalize a particular course of action.
I say, F' em all and the camels they road in on!:mad:
Ditto - and very well put!
Trapper John
09-12-2013, 12:40
What is the proposed gas/oil pipeline through Syria?
Here for starters:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/09/glenn-beck-digs-into-the-one-layer-of-syria-conflict-that-he-says-mainstream-media-are-missing/
As I said we are watching a practicum in mushroom management.
Trapper John
09-12-2013, 12:42
And here http://www.examiner.com/article/it-s-not-about-the-chemical-weapons-it-s-about-the-syrian-pipeline
as well as here http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/09/06/united-states-going-go-war-syria-over-natural-gas-pipeline
Need I go on?
And here http://www.examiner.com/article/it-s-not-about-the-chemical-weapons-it-s-about-the-syrian-pipeline
as well as here http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/09/06/united-states-going-go-war-syria-over-natural-gas-pipeline
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...a-are-missing/
Need I go on?
I 've heard they (your links) all spout hyperbole from the blogosphere.
BTW, Zerohedge has had several articles on this:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-04/guest-post-us-going-war-syria-over-natural-gas-pipeline
https://www.google.com/search?q=zerohedge+syria+pipeline&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
4. Piss poor operational planning by DoS and the lack of even the semblance of a reaction plan if things went badly made a response all but impossible.
And I would add not only wasn't there an action plan, I believe they fought against military intervention (at least at the higher levels) in order to protect what they were doing at Benghazi. Hoping they could keep it in house, and secret in order to protect there careers, and possible legal action cost 4 men there lifes.
Trapper John
09-12-2013, 18:45
And I would add not only wasn't there an action plan, I believe they fought against military intervention (at least at the higher levels) in order to protect what they were doing at Benghazi. Hoping they could keep it in house, and secret in order to protect there careers, and possible legal action cost 4 men there lifes.
Exactly correct Bro! That is their MO, always has been, always will be. You've been there, seen it too haven't ya?:D When are these bozos going to realize there is a reason we have a military and it trains 24/7 to do this stuff. Just because we make it look easy doesn't mean that everyone can do it properly. And then when it get's all screwed up, what do they do. Yep, let the blame games begin. Never happen in an SF unit. Screw up- own up, ruck-up and press on Soldier.
Damn, I just knew I shouldn't have looked in on this thread <rant off> :D
Seriously, thanks for your posts on this subject - you've bracketed the target - Fire for effect! :D
Aequitas
09-12-2013, 20:26
The answer to this will be to send the teams back in to train, but this time, without any weapons.
The real issue is that we have US soldiers on the ground who are relying on the militias to safeguard them and to secure their weapons while they sleep somewhere else, unarmed!
Thanks DoS. That Benghazi shit was so long ago, and there have been so many changes there. :rolleyes:
TR
Edited...
Can you guys who buy into this pipeline theory explain a couple of things to me?
Why is it in Russia's interest to allow gas pipeline to be constructed that will bring in fuel that will compete with Gazprom? You guys do know how important Gazprom is to Russia's economy right?
Why is a gas pipeline such a big deal when gas is at an all time low?
Why is this gas line even needed in light of the huge gas fields around Israel and Cyprus? If Europe has a choice, will it really buy gas from Iran instead of Cyprus?
How is Iran supposed to sell gas to Europe in light of current sanctions?
Peregrino
09-14-2013, 12:20
Can you guys who buy into this pipeline theory explain a couple of things to me?
Why is it in Russia's interest to allow gas pipeline to be constructed that will bring in fuel that will compete with Gazprom? You guys do know how important Gazprom is to Russia's economy right?
Why is a gas pipeline such a big deal when gas is at an all time low?
Why is this gas line even needed in light of the huge gas fields around Israel and Cyprus? If Europe has a choice, will it really buy gas from Iran instead of Cyprus?
How is Iran supposed to sell gas to Europe in light of current sanctions?
You might want to re-read the articles. The proxy war theory postulates Assad must be replaced because he is a Russian client and refuses to allow the Saudis and friends build an LPG pipeline terminating in Syria because it will undercut GAZPROM (by billions of Rubles and untold influence over the mid-long term). As for Israel and Cyprus - their assets still require development. Check out who has the gas liquefaction plants and the seaports capable of handling the tankers. The pipeline is actually cheaper over the near term. Besides - IIRC Russia is investing heavily in both ventures. You'll have to be really convincing to sell me on the idea that Saudi and friends won't go down fighting (through their terror proxies) to prevent those investments from maturing anytime soon. MOO, YMMV.
Who in the Hell would want their name on that FLIPL :D
1...
2...
3...
Not it!
Does this strike you as a method to the current way of doing business in the Beltway?
Seems like there is a mutation of a disease that started in Mexico with guns coming up missing, Egypt too. Libya.....then we are starting to put them into the hands of Freedom*cough...Al Qaeda...*Fighters.
Strange the things that keep us busy in wars and keep biting us in the ass a decade later.
You might want to re-read the articles. The proxy war theory postulates Assad must be replaced because he is a Russian client and refuses to allow the Saudis and friends build an LPG pipeline terminating in Syria because it will undercut GAZPROM (by billions of Rubles and untold influence over the mid-long term). As for Israel and Cyprus - their assets still require development. Check out who has the gas liquefaction plants and the seaports capable of handling the tankers. The pipeline is actually cheaper over the near term. Besides - IIRC Russia is investing heavily in both ventures. You'll have to be really convincing to sell me on the idea that Saudi and friends won't go down fighting (through their terror proxies) to prevent those investments from maturing anytime soon. MOO, YMMV.
Apologies. I did not see the article that stated that Russia was mostly interested in blocking a Saudi pipeline. That makes marginally more sense than the articles I have read in the past which makes it sound like Russia has this deep desire for an Iranian pipeline to be built.
That said, I still don't seen how cheap gas is in either Saudi's or the Russian's interest. Cheap gas is going to displace oil (already talk in the US of switching over the long haul fleet to natural gas). If the Saudi's could flood Europe with cheap gas, they will be silting their own throats. If they manage to keep gas expensive, the Cyprus/Israel gas fields come into play. This is why long term I think Russia is doomed. They are screwed either way.
For what it is worth, I understand Saudi's most pressing interest in Syria as being Iraq. From what I have read, the Saudi's see the second Iraq war as being one of the most catastrophic things that ever happened to them. A friendly Sunni Syria would make it easier to facilitate a return to power of the Sunni tribes in Iraq.
Russian concern with Syria as I understand it is mainly to have access to a reliable warm water port in that part of the world to balance out all the ports the US has. But as you said MOO, YMMV.
Paragrouper
09-14-2013, 19:50
That said, I still don't seen how cheap gas is in either Saudi's or the Russian's interest. Cheap gas is going to displace oil (already talk in the US of switching over the long haul fleet to natural gas). If the Saudi's could flood Europe with cheap gas, they will be silting their own throats. If they manage to keep gas expensive, the Cyprus/Israel gas fields come into play. This is why long term I think Russia is doomed. They are screwed either way.
Delivery cost money. Those costs erode profits, no matter how much your supplier can supply. A strategic pipeline does not mean that you have to flood the market, it helps you control the market--and Europe is a big market.
frostfire
09-16-2013, 19:34
CIA shoud NEVER, NEVER run military operations! :mad:
Trapper John, why is that so?
I understand mistakes happen like the ones in Bay of Pigs, Iran Contra and such, but the paramilitary ops aka. Jawbreaker and Triple Nickle team light-speed march to tactical victory was as textbook as any UW/FID can be, no?
I may be naive and a hopeless romantic... There's one exchange from the Good Shepherd that stayed with me:
Joseph Palmi: You're the guys that scare me. You're the people that make big wars.
Edward Wilson: No, we make sure the wars are small ones.
I sincerely believe there are patriotic quiet professionals serving in the Agency, toiling in the shadows, maintaining ever-silence despite public condemnation, criticism, etc. Some come from SF and SOF.
Oh well, maybe I've successfully brainwashed myself after perusing Ways of Knife, First In, Jawbreaker, Ghost Wars, Book of Honor, See No Evil, Lesson from CSO, Master of Disguise, Spy Craft, Courting Disaster, and At the Center of the Storm
Apologies. I did not see the article that stated that Russia was mostly interested in blocking a Saudi pipeline. That makes marginally more sense than the articles I have read in the past which makes it sound like Russia has this deep desire for an Iranian pipeline to be built.
That said, I still don't seen how cheap gas is in either Saudi's or the Russian's interest. Cheap gas is going to displace oil (already talk in the US of switching over the long haul fleet to natural gas). If the Saudi's could flood Europe with cheap gas, they will be silting their own throats. If they manage to keep gas expensive, the Cyprus/Israel gas fields come into play. This is why long term I think Russia is doomed. They are screwed either way.
For what it is worth, I understand Saudi's most pressing interest in Syria as being Iraq. From what I have read, the Saudi's see the second Iraq war as being one of the most catastrophic things that ever happened to them. A friendly Sunni Syria would make it easier to facilitate a return to power of the Sunni tribes in Iraq.
Russian concern with Syria as I understand it is mainly to have access to a reliable warm water port in that part of the world to balance out all the ports the US has. But as you said MOO, YMMV.
On a similar note:
Baku, Fineko/abc.az. “With a subtle motion of the hand” China took away the Turkmenistan – Afghanistan – Pakistan – India (TAPI) pipeline project from USA and became yesterday the chief controller of gas resources in Central and South Asia.
http://abc.az/eng/news_05_09_2013_75868.html
If that is true some folks are probably a bit upset because they just lost a lot of money.
It just grew legs and walked off......
Along with the GMV's, hundreds of weapons are now missing, including roughly 100 Glock pistols and more than 100 M4 rifles. More disturbing, according to the sources, is that it seems almost every set of night-vision goggles has also been taken. This is advanced technology that gives very few war fighters an advantage on the battlefield.
"It's not just equipment ... it's the capability. You are giving these very dangerous groups the capability that only a few nations are capable of," one source said. "Already assassinations are picking up in Tripoli and there are major worries that the militias are using this stolen equipment to their advantage. All these militias are tied into terrorist organizations and are tied to (salafists)."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/25/theft-us-weapons-in-libya-involved-hundreds-guns-sources-say/