Civilian BAR in the Army

[Noslack71]

Recently, I had a conversation with a fellow who is a retired Army 1st Sgt. The story he told was that back in the 70's he was in basic training and stood out to the cadre of his BCT company because of his marksmanship. Sometime around the 6th week, he was taken to a range where he was dropped off with a small group of men in civilian clothes. He was directed to work with them and follow their instructions.
The civilians produced a civilian version of the Browning Automatic Rifle. The civilians wanted him to shoot the rifle which had some modifications, and a scope he had never seen. He was told that that the steel used for the rifle had be had undergone some special metallurgical processes so that it stand up under the extreme stresses that military/sniper ammunition would put on the weapon. Initially, the civilians had him shoot open sights and when he consistently was hitting the targets at 900 "yards" ( his term, not mine) they had him shoot using the unusual scope. Later on, he was sent US Army Sniper school and after graduation he was assigned the weapon, and they customized the scope for him. He was in a combat support MOS and was assigned to CS units. The rifle and scope went with him whenever he changed units. I have a couple of questions if anyone has any information they would be willing to share, I would appreciate it.
First off, I don't know what I don't know. Did the Army use the civilian BAR as a sniper rifle? It seems entirely plausible that snipers would be assigned their rifle and take it from unit to unit. Was it policy or practice that CS units have organic snipers? We had designated marksmen with M-14's but the only folks I saw with modified civilian weapons were Special Operations folks, dedicated Army snipers and Marines. Again, there is a whole universe of things in our military I am not aware of. Finally, he implied that from time to time civilians would come and get him to go to work somewhere the, he went back to his CS unit. Of course no one in his chain was cleared to know anything. That part of the story I take with a grain of salt but, I am curious about the BAR.
Thank you

Noslack

[The Reaper]

We always used the plasma rifle, in the 40 watt range.

Seriously, dude.

How gullible are you? :rolleyes:

TR

[Dusty]

BAR's take too long to clean.

[MR2]

BAR's take too long to clean.

Whadda you mean Dusty, I saw Reaper disassemble and clean a BAR in 3 minutes down in FayetNam.

[Dusty]

Whadda you mean Dusty, I saw Reaper disassemble and clean a BAR in 3 minutes down in FayetNam.

A Civilian Model? :D

[Peregrino]

BAR's take too long to clean.

Damn Dusty. Talk about dragging up old memories. NTM instant validation. FWIW - TR and I saw a reworked BAR produced by Ohio Ordinance at the last SHOT Show. Significantly lighter, shorter, and "handier" than the original. At least every bit as "special" as the supposed civilian BAR that started this thread. Still depended on 20-rd mags of 30-06. While cool, I failed to see the point.

As for the point of this thread - Noslack71 - I've got some property just north of the DMZ you might be interested in. I'm sure we can come to some kind of mutually beneficial deal.

[Streck-Fu]

FWIW - TR and I saw a reworked BAR produced by Ohio Ordinance at the last SHOT Show. Significantly lighter, shorter, and "handier" than the original. At least every bit as "special" as the supposed civilian BAR that started this thread. Still depended on 20-rd mags of 30-06. While cool, I failed to see the point.

A friend of mine owns one and it is a damned hoot to shoot, even in semi-auto. Recoil was very light and rapid shots on steel at 300 yards was surprisingly easy.
If I had the money, I can see it as a great addition to a collection.

[Peregrino]

IIRC even a stock BAR was relatively pleasant to shoot. It was humping it and a couple basic loads of 30-06 that sucked. NTM Dusty's previous observation about the joys of cleaning it.

[Streck-Fu]

It was rucked in the back of a truck so that unpleasantness was avoided. It is a heavy weapon and marching it through the South Pacific mud must have sucked to all ends.

[Noslack71]

Gentlemen:


After hearing his story and not being an expert I remembered the many admonitions to careless question posers to Google. I used Google to check part the only part of his story I could and that was the rifle. After reading the description below I thought it was possible, after all someone invented the Davy Crockett. As I grow
I copied the description from Browning’s web page and placed the web address below the product description. This is apparently were I went wrong in not providing this information in the first place. So I am pretty gullible in making assumptions without providing enough information.

STILL THE NUMBER ONE AUTOLOADER.
Few hunting rifles in history have achieved the status of the Browning BAR. And no other autoloaders have even come close. The line covers a wide range of tastes from the original styling of the BAR Safari, to the working rifle look of the Stalker version to the feature packed Short and Long Trac versions with modern aesthetics and handling features.
The Browning BAR has a long standing tradition for achieving bolt action like accuracy in an autoloading rifle. Some of this is accounted for in the extreme level of precision and careful craftsmanship that goes into every rifle. But the design really sets it apart. The gas system combined with a 7-lug rotary bolt give the shooting significant recoil reduction for comfort, while at the same time locking in bolt action-like accuracy.
To complete the package, the BAR is available in a full spectrum of calibers from the most popular magnum calibers (including the WSMs) down to long range, high velocity varmint class loads.
1. www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B‎


Thank you for taking the time on a question that from the replies appears to be a clear waste off your time, and for that I apologize.


Noslack

[Peregrino]

OK, now I/we know what you're talking about. You neglected to clarify that the weapon was a modified sporting rifle. We assumed it was a version of the M1918. Yes - I have a friend who has a highly modified .300WM BAR that he had built to match a rifle he used at work.

FWIW - A lot of experimentation was done during the early phases of the GWOT. Most of it quietly disappeared (especially when investigators started coming around checking out "rumors" because some Army program office had their nose out of joint about SF conducting "cowboy experiments"). Some of our other members with personal involvement might be willing to expand (but I doubt it!). His was a sweet setup, but somewhat delicate (finicky WRT ammo and prone to breaking small pieces). Apparently .300WM is a punishing round for lighter/complicated gas guns. Not that I have personal experience - given that I stick with bolt guns in the heavier calibers.

So the weapon part of your account is plausible. The rest doesn't pass the sniff test.

[Peregrino]

Just For The Fun Of It!

[ZonieDiver]

I always wondered why the little guy (Kirby) carried the BAR, and this huge guy (Little John) had a Garand... and then, I was actually in the Army and found out why!

[PRB]

BAR Trivia.
In the 30's Gangsters often used BAR's along with Thompsons and whatever.
The reason they liked the BAR was for its penetration when shooting at vehicles.
The .45 Thompson would often not penetrate the gauge/quality steel in the Model A Fords etc. unless it was a no deflection shot....the BAR would go through both sides.

[Sdiver]

I always wondered why the little guy (Kirby) carried the BAR, and this huge guy (Little John) had a Garand... and then, I was actually in the Army and found out why!

Aw tell us Uncle Zonie ... why ????

[ZonieDiver]

Well, of course... HE volunteered! :D

[The Reaper]

Bonnie and Clyde ran them.

Clyde preferred his cut down.

Not as a precision weapon, though.

TR

[Noslack71]

Browning must have made an error in design/production or marketing if the civilian hunting BAR is so lacking in visibility in this forum.

[Bill Harsey]

Browning must have made an error in design/production or marketing if the civilian hunting BAR is so lacking in visibility in this forum.

John Moses Browning designed his fist version of the BAR during World War One.
The second version with a higher rate of fire for World War Two.

There have been a few rifles made by others since then.

This takes nothing away from Mr. Browning.

[Peregrino]

Comment from a knowledgeable source.

Noslack71

These BARs were tested by the army. I still have the info some where and pictures. Testing was done as late as 2000. H***** asked me to look at the thing because it was presented to him as a package for SOTIC for evaluation. It didn't get far because of the heat issues and a non floating barrel forearm system. The one I saw had a can on it and was real squirley after a few shots. Major impact shifts. They were chambered in 300 Mag.

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