Applegate Fairbairn Design Question For Everyone

[Bill Harsey]

I would like everyone here to help me with a knife design question.

The Applegate Fairbairn Combat Folding Knife was designed by me about 10 years ago for the late Col. Rex Applegate and has been made by Gerber Legendary Blades in Portland Oregon for some time now. To date the only handle color has been black. A couple new features are in the works making this a new evolution of the A/F knife.

My question is, What would you folks think if the injection molded glass filled nylon handle was done in a new color? I was thinking a desert tan. Thoughts?

Picking a color should be easy right? It's not and I need help.

Thanks in advance.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Bill,
There is a trend towards color-coordinated gear now - people are painting everything and are very "Queer Eye" color conscious.

I think desert tan would be a great addition. Or maybe even a slightly darker color like coyote. Most gear seems to come in three colors, black, OD green and some shade of tan. A nylon sheath in some kind of coordinated colors would also be good. Mick has some good new ones from Eagle that might spark an idea or two. CSM, SOTECH etc all make good ones. I bought a Spec Ops brand sheath for my AF. Very good kit.

I am biting my lip so hard blood is flowing to keep from asking about the other new features.

[mumbleypeg]

I would think that with all the work currently been done in desert environments, Tan/Coyote would be a natural. Something along the lines af the gunners grips. The A/F folder I have is a pretty big knife and so I carry it in a TAD gear sheath. The sheath is black and is generally carried on black webbing but other color choices woulds allow better blending.

Don't let FS loose on this one. You'll end up with red or tiger striping. You will have to start thinking about "accessorizing". Then she'll gloat around about how xy's are so color challenged. She'll mention that shoes and belts are made in colors other than black or brown or tan........Bringing up color, it is a slippery slope Mr. Harsey. :D :munchin

[Roguish Lawyer]

I think FrontSight would take one in "double-tap red" . . .

:rolleyes: :D

[NousDefionsDoc]

Focus gentlemen

[Razor]

Me three for coyote. The light tan Boker used on its version of the AF fixed blade fighter was far too light, IMO.

[Bravo1-3]

I was screwing around with photoshop and came up with some so-so representatives just to see what it would look like. I also made one for Ms. FS.

[Rotor Strike]

I would suggest Coyote Brown G-10 as the handle material. It provides great traction for the hand, is available, and is extremely durable. Also, I would suggest looking into Rob Simonich's Gunner Grip idea as well. My Simonich Gunner Grips on my 1911 are the perfect feel in the hand and provide unparalleled gripping power. Plus, I think Rob would look down and smile to see his idea at work on such a classic design. Good luck with the project...keep us posted.

[Bill Harsey]

Thanks Ryan, Ron Simonich was a pretty good knifemaking friend of mine. I'd known him since the first knife he'd made.

The only way I'd consider using his Gunner Grip pattern is if his family was willing to license out the design at some point. Even then I wouldn't be comfortable using Robs brilliant handle pattern that belongs to his family. I see another company has copied that and I don't like it at all.

For the A/F, we are going to keep using the same glass filled nylon handles which are injection molded. We can change the color of the plastic with this process.

Input on handle color noted.

[Bill Harsey]

I spoke with the powers that be up at Gerber yesterday, Coyote Brown it is.

Thanks for your help because my quoting you made a difference.

Now for the big color question, what is Coyote Brown? What I mean by this is do we have a United States military standard for this color? Before anyone dings me for not doing my own homework, that's going on too but I haven't gotten an answer yet.

Is this a single color or does it refer to a subtle range of like colors?

I'm going to have to do some more homework. Any guidance would be appreciated.

[NousDefionsDoc]

I like the darker shade of Coyote for a knife handle. Think Gunner Grip or maybe even a shade or two darker. The gear makers probably know where there is a comparison pics of the shades side by side.

[The Reaper]

I spoke with the powers that be up at Gerber yesterday, Coyote Brown it is.

Thanks for your help because my quoting you made a difference.

Now for the big color question, what is Coyote Brown? What I mean by this is do we have a United States military standard for this color? Before anyone dings me for not doing my own homework, that's going on too but I haven't gotten an answer yet.

Is this a single color or does it refer to a subtle range of like colors?

I'm going to have to do some more homework. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Bill:

If you Google Coyote Brown, you will get a lot of hits with a lot of variation on the colors.

CB in G-10 will likely be significantly different from CB fabric.

The CB color is a sort of dark or dirty looking khaki, IMHO.

Here is a pic of a Kifaru Pack from their site in CB, if that is of any help. They also have recently changed their color of CB, discussion here http://www.kifaru.net/MGcolors.htm, pic below.

The Marines have a new standard for CG that they are using for socks and underwear with the MARPAT cammies.

HTH.

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

I like the Kifaru shade. Paraclete's is good too.

http://www.paracletearmor.com/fabrics.htm

[Bill Harsey]

I'm starting to learn about color standards but will have to get more detail.

Is Mil-Spec the same as Federal Standard (Fed Std 595 V1)? Mil Spec color means the colors are tested for deep red and close infrared to meet cammo specs. Then there is simply matching the visible color. I think I'm just trying to match the visible color. This is all open source information.

Now I just need to locate a copy of Fed Std 595 V1 and see if it has Coyote Brown.

[Bill Harsey]

I like the Kifaru shade. Paraclete's is good too.

http://www.paracletearmor.com/fabrics.htm

Thanks for the link.

[Bill Harsey]

Sir Reaper,
Interesting pics from Kifaru. We aren't competing in any product category that I know of, maybe I could ask them too.

[The Reaper]

Sir Reaper,
Interesting pics from Kifaru. We aren't competing in any product category that I know of, maybe I could ask them too.

I think MM, eggroll, and Razor have contacts there.

TR

[Razor]

Kifaru uses Busch & Associates as their Cordura supplier, so the B&A coyote is the coyote of Kifaru. I could send you a swatch of the nylon, Mr. H., but I'm not sure if that'll be helpful as its not Mil-Spec AFAIK. MM did some research way back and found that the USMC coyote was based on the Ralph Lauren Santa Fe color SF11B, which is no longer available pre-mixed, but can be special ordered. Unfortunately, I'm not up to speed on official Mil-Spec pantones for coyote, but perhaps MM or Egg can be of more help.

[Bill Harsey]

Kifaru uses Busch & Associates as their Cordura supplier, so the B&A coyote is the coyote of Kifaru. I could send you a swatch of the nylon, Mr. H., but I'm not sure if that'll be helpful as its not Mil-Spec AFAIK. MM did some research way back and found that the USMC coyote was based on the Ralph Lauren Santa Fe color SF11B, which is no longer available pre-mixed, but can be special ordered. Unfortunately, I'm not up to speed on official Mil-Spec pantones for coyote, but perhaps MM or Egg can be of more help.
Thanks Razor, Martin here has been extremely helpful in finding the application form for the official Government document that contains the actual color samples.
I've forwarded this to the powers that be and it's up to them to make the purchase.
I just made a written note on the Ralph Lauren Santa Fe color no. SF11B for reference.
Now I have new term to search, "Mil-Spec pantones".

[alphamale]

I was screwing around with photoshop and came up with some so-so representatives just to see what it would look like. I also made one for Ms. FS.Thanks Bravo1-3! :D

Focus gentlemenYea, what he said!! :lifter heh heh

OK seriously Mr. Harsey, IMO the important thing to remember here that really matters is don't clash cool colors with warm colors.

Coyote brown is a warm color. Silver is a cool color.

Some production implmentations of coyote brown with bead-blasted or satin blades look awful. Complete clash.

If you are going to stick with a bead-blasted or color of silver, the only way to make that work with a coyote brown is to go a deep deep pewter. A very dark silver.

Better would be some kind of brown-ish coating on the blade. KG Gunkote comes in a dark brown? That would look hot.

FrontSight

[catd11r]

Mr Harsey ,sir, I think the coyote brown would be great!

[Bill Harsey]

Mr Harsey ,sir, I think the coyote brown would be great!
Thanks catd11, all the thoughts here count and have made it a no brainer for the powers that be.

I suppose I'm going to get a consulting bill from Ms. FrontSight for the color lesson (said with very large smile Ma'am, not trying to start anything).