Arnold Amendment

[QRQ 30]

Its been a while since this site has been used.
There is a movement to amend the Constitution to allow naturalized citizens to hold the office of the POTUS. At first thought I said NO!! but after further thought why not under certain conditions. Mainly that the candidate have been a citizen for a minimum of 20 years, or some other specified period, after reaching the age of maturity. That would place him right at the proper age - 38 - 41.

I think that many naturalized citizens who lived under other regimes may understand and appreciate our way of life more than those who are citizens by birth right. The way I read the present law, I'm not sure that those of you who were born overseas of military parents are eligible.

[Footmobile]

Foreign born children of at least one US citizen parents are indeed US citizens.

I don't know about the ammendment thingy. Is there really any cause to go thru an actual ammendment of the Constitution just for the Governator? What about someone like Sorros, a Greek immigrant, who could throw a ton of money at an election on advertising? :munchin

[QRQ 30]

Foreign born children of at least one US citizen parents are indeed US citizens.

I don't know about the ammendment thingy. Is there really any cause to go thru an actual ammendment of the Constitution just for the Governator? What about someone like Sorros, a Greek immigrant, who could throw a ton of money at an election on advertising? :munchin

I believe the law states only citizens born in the U.S.

I just used Arnold's name because it is current. For every example you can give on one side of the argument I can name dozens of citizens who came from Soviet Block countries and enlisted in the Armed Forces under the Lodge act. They fought for our country and many died for our country. Why should they be second class to those who were born with their citizenship and many of whom would tear our way of life down?

[NousDefionsDoc]

Teresa Heinz Kerry

[Footmobile]

I think it's a can of worms.

We could list dozens of people that would make great examples and awful ones.

[Sacamuelas]

I don't like the idea. I vote No ammendment.

[QRQ 30]

Teresa Heinz Kerry

Is that a challenge? CSM (ret) Douglas - the first Lodge Act member of the 10th SFGA.
:D

The truth is that they still have to be elected. It is apparent that the money of THK and Soros combined did not get the traitor elected.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Not a challenge, a reason. There is no way in hell 50 million libs will vote for a retired SF CSM.

The selection pool is large enough, we don't need to take the risk.

In the case of Arnold, we don't even know if he will make a good Governor and we're talking about making him POTUS?

That law was put there for a reason and the reason has not gone away. If I live here for 50 years, my loyalty will still always lie with the US.

[Stargazer]

The next generation would be eligible. At this point, I am undecided on this issue but am leaning towards not being in favor of amending the Constitution. I am in the process of challenging the "why" of my thinking.

[NousDefionsDoc]

How about because it requires a constitutional amendment?

[QRQ 30]

I'm not really talking of Arnold specifically.

The 42nd POTUS finally admitted that he fled to Europe to avoid the draft (service to his country). Why should he be eligible to hold the office when someone who fled his country to support and servi the US not be eligible.

Please note that I suggested a pretty long period -- 20+ years as a US citizen starting at the age of 21.

[Footmobile]

The 42nd POTUS finally admitted that he fled to Europe to avoid the draft (service to his country). Why should he be eligible to hold the office when someone who fled his country to support and servi the US not be eligible..

Good point.

[DunbarFC]

Not a challenge, a reason. There is no way in hell 50 million libs will vote for a retired SF CSM.

The selection pool is large enough, we don't need to take the risk.

In the case of Arnold, we don't even know if he will make a good Governor and we're talking about making him POTUS?




I agree 100%

It's like the Dems already having the coronation for Barak Obama as the next POTUS and he hasn't even set foot in the Senate yet

However I will say my California lib friend who is a teacher no less likes Arnold......read into that what you will

[Airbornelawyer]

I believe the law states only citizens born in the U.S. The requirement is that he or she be a "natural born Citizen", not necessarily born in the U.S. The categories of eligible persons may be found here: http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html

Ahnuld's is not the only name that is current. Gov. Jennifer Granholm of Michigan, considered by some a rising star in the Democratic Party, is Canadian-born. U.S. Senator-elect Mel Martinez (R-FL) was born in Cuba. Gen. John Shalikashvili, who spoke at the Democratic National Convention, was born in Poland to Georgian parents (his father was a Tsarist officer, became a Polish officer and eventually served in the Wehrmacht's Georgian Legion).

But this story is only really getting play because of Schwarzenegger, which is probably the main reason the measure will go nowhere (few are interested in anointing him the presumptive Republican candidate). Still, it is unfair and inconsistent with our country's founding ideals to say you can come to this country and make anything of yourself by your merits, except that one thing.

[Sacamuelas]

Article II Section I:
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

As stated, the naturalized citizen's children are eligible for the position.

IMO, this proposed change would be a dangerous amendment to our constitution.
What is the overwhelming benefit to our country that would necessitate such a change? It surely isn't the closet liberal anti-gun governator :munchin

[QRQ 30]

Let me de-personalize this and restate. It seems to me that there has to be a point in time when a person achieves full citizenship with ALL of the priviledges which go with citizenship. I don't think that "birth right" should be the sole criterium if a criterium at all. I tend to lean towards the "Starship Troopers" philosophy. Citizenship should be earned.

Some of y'all are politicizing this when politics should have nothing to do with it at all. By today's standards a traitor can run for office but not a patriot. :munchin

[Achilles]

Oh no!! Then Michael Moore wouldn't be a citizen!!! :boohoo

[QRQ 30]

How about this?
Dr. Kissinger was born in Fuerth, Germany, on May 27, 1923, came to the United States in 1938, and was naturalised a United States citizen on June 19, 1943.

Among other things he was the 56th Secretary of State - arguably as influential as the POTOS. :munchin

[Airbornelawyer]

How about this?


Among other things he was the 56th Secretary of State - arguably as influential as the POTOS. :munchin
The Czech-born Madeleine Albright was also Secretary of State.

[Bravo1-3]

I'm against this on so many levels it's almost painful. We live in a country where they teach children to be loyal to countries their Great Great Grandparents came from. I make a lot of fun of myself because of my “muttly” family origins (2 parts Vodka, 1 part Whiskey, 1 part Grappa... in a Kosher glass), but when it comes down to it I'm an American. I am certain that all of us who are citizens (and even resident aliens) on this board are only out for the best interests of this country.

That is not the case with the generation raised in the current "One World" education mentality.

Until the end of the summer semester, I worked for a program in which High School students could earn their Diploma and an Associates simultaneously. These are not your run of the mill HS Students. Most of them are considering advanced degrees science or engineering by age 22. More than half of them are either resident aliens or naturalized citizens (Russians, Germans, Chinese, Thai, S. Africans, Kenyans, Iranians, Iraqis, Saudis, Turks, Indians, Pakistanis, Brits, Irish and a few Scandinavians). While most of them are in the process of naturalization, I do have reason to question their loyalties, sympathies, or their ideals about the United States as something other than some kind of "Neutral Zone".

These ideals don’t go away over time, they soften. I don’t want someone who believes the “Great Melting Pot” is anything but a sovereign nation, and who is not looking out 100% for what’s in our best interests. There are plenty of born citizens who fail these criteria too. A great example can be found in the Japanese population in Hawaii. The emphasis on maintaining cultural links to Japan within this population is amazing. While some of it is caused by dependence on an influx of Japanese Tourist dollars, a great deal of it comes from a voluntary, willing “identity segregation” attitude. Those who live in Hawaii know what I’m talking about. I don’t want to seem like I’m painting with too broad of a brush, but it’s not an unfounded hypothesis on my part.

It also opens the door to all sorts of potentially damaging options. How much of a stretch would it be to simply plant a few dozen “seedlings” to cultivate from such bastions of socialist pseudo-democracy like most of western Europe, or such freedom loving states like China. I’m sure the thought would never occur to them :rolleyes . Maybe I need to adjust my tin-foil hat, but it’s not much of a stretch for me to envision some current rising star 30-something in the phrench State Department getting a “great idea” in his head. I know it’s a long shot, but you have to consider this: What if he WINS.

[Stargazer]

Bravo 1-3... perhaps you were Alexander Hamilton in another life.. ;) It was in the 68th Federalist Paper that he wrote:

"Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union?"

[Bravo1-3]

Bravo 1-3... perhaps you were Alexander Hamilton in another life.. ;) [/B]"

I don't quite know how to take that















I'd have put one into Aaron Burrs eye socket. :lifter

[Stargazer]

I don't quite know how to take that
:eek: .... I meant it in the most positive way. I was merely trying to point out that your line of thinking was consistent with the Writers.


I'd have put one into Aaron Burrs eye socket. :lifter
LOL!!! I wasn't referring to your dueling skills. :D

[Achilles]

I'm all for it. Not just because of the Governator (although I like MOST of his policies, not ALL). I completely disagree with him being called a "liberal." Yea right! Just because hes moderate only a handful of social issues does not make him liberal!! He would be a tough president and a hell of a scary image for any country trying to F*** with us. Back to the topic, this country is composed completely of immigrants over the last 250-350 years. Coming to America, land of the free to seek success where before you were held down by oppressive governments is what its all about. By all means, do massive background checks and have requirements for how many years one has to be a citizen. They didn't have FBI background checks in the 18th century. Things are different now.

[Airbornelawyer]

Our foreign cabinet:

- Henry Kissinger (Germany) - Secretary of State under Nixon
- Madeleine Albright (Czechoslovakia) - Secretary of State under Clinton
- Carl Schurz (Germany) - Secretary of the Interior under Hayes; also a US Senator
- Oscar Straus (Germany) - Secretary of Commerce and Labor under Teddy Roosevelt.
- Elaine Chao (Taiwain) - current Secretary of Labor
- Mel Martinez (Cuba) - GW Bush's first Secretary of Education

Although American-born, Teddy Roosevelt's Secretary of the Navy and Attorney General might have raised fears of foreign intrigue. He was Charles Joseph Bonaparte. Guess who his great-uncle was?

Technically, Thomas Watt Gregory, Woodrow Wilson's second Attorney General, was not US-born. He was born in the Confederate States of America.

We have had at least two foreign-born National Security Advisers - Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski - and two foreign-born UN Ambassadors - Albright and John Negroponte.

The first Speaker of the House, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, was German-born, but like Hamilton and other Founding Fathers, he was grandfathered in.

[ghuinness]

I am a naturalised American and spent over 12 years in the system.

IMHO the current immigration process should be completely overhauled.

That aside, the legislation which annoys me the most is the ability to retain dual-citizenship. You either want to be here or not.

With respect to Arnold. - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2003/08/18/MN266612.DTL