View Full Version : Snowden in Moscow
Trapper John
06-23-2013, 08:05
BBC Breaking News is reporting that Little Eddie has landed in Moscow escorted by WikkiLeaks attorneys.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking
Trapper John
06-23-2013, 10:48
http://rt.com/news/snowden-fly-moscow-aeroflot-125/
The plane carrying whistleblower Edward Snowden has landed at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport. The former CIA contractor, who left Hong Kong in a bid to elude US extradition on espionage charges, is on his way to a ‘third country’ via Russia.
Reuters reports that the Ecuadorean ambassador to Russia, Patricio Chavez, has arrived at Sheremetyevo airport, telling the press that he expects to meet with Snowden.
Interfax news agency is citing an unnamed source in Sheremetyevo airport management, saying that Snowden is still at the airport.
"Snowden is a transit passenger, his next flight is to Cuba, he remains in the airport complex – where he’s supposed to be, waiting for the next flight," the source said.
A source in the Aeroflot company told the agency that the whistleblower, who is accompanied by WikiLeaks representative, Sarah Harrison, has rented a suit at the airport’s «V-Express» Capsule Hotel.
“He arrived. But he can’t leave the terminal because he doesn’t have a Russian visa,” the source said.
Two cars with diplomatic license plates of Ecuador – the country named among Snowden’s possible destinations – were spotted at Sheremetyevo airport.
RT’s source reported a doctor from the Ecuadorian embassy in Moscow has examined Snowden on his arrival in the Russian capital.
Going to be a whole lot easier to drone him in Ecuador than China.
Trapper John
06-24-2013, 08:00
Reports are suggesting that Snowden was not on board Aeroflot flight to Cuba continuing on to Ecuador. Big misdirection IMO.
Question: Was he actually in Russia. If he was then he still is. Ruskies can use him as a trading card with the US. Lil Eddie's only value is as a trading card now.
Looks like we are playing an international game of Where's Waldo. :D
Stargazer
06-24-2013, 09:18
He is on a regular world-tour. Seems like he is playing a game of roulette and I am not sure the odds are in his favor.
Trapper John
06-24-2013, 09:36
He is on a regular world-tour. Seems like he is playing a game of roulette and I am not sure the odds are in his favor.
He is definitely not in control now. He is just a puppet in a game he doesn't even begin to understand. Fool probably thinks his information is still valuable. His only value comes from the fact that the US wants him back and might be willing to trade something for someone to hand him over.
My guess is Putin might make a deal. Lil Eddie better hope that the US still wants him badly enough because his time is running out and so is his value. Soon he will become a liability and then its anyone's guess as to what happens to him.
Trapper John
06-24-2013, 11:43
Remember a time when Russians defected to the U.S?...
I can't yet figure if this jackass is a pawn being used to show us as a laughing stock, or a pawn for other countries to demonstrate that they can still play the big boy bargaining chip game.
Or if those same countries are engaging in a version of the shell game, with the U.S. as a dupe who thinks the ball is under the middle one:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/world/edward-snowden-nsa-surveillance-leak.html?_r=0
Lil Eddie seriously overplayed his hand IMO. He is now viewed as a possible asset (negotiating chip) with a definite shelf-life before he becomes a definite liability to whomever is holding him when his value expires.
Let the games begin.
Snaquebite
06-24-2013, 12:06
25776
Trapper John
06-24-2013, 12:08
25776
LMAOROF!!! Brother, that is GREAT :lifter
Badger52
06-24-2013, 12:57
Soon he will become a liability and then its anyone's guess as to what happens to him.Yup; lotta high-country and poor roads to go off in Ecuador - if he gets there.
Red Flag 1
06-24-2013, 13:07
25776
Somehow, Snowdon has more credability that Carney ::eek:.
RF 1
The Reaper
06-24-2013, 16:37
I wonder who is bankrolling his round the world jaunt?
Maybe Booz hasn't cancelled his company credit card yet.
TR
Trapper John
06-25-2013, 12:53
From the Daily Beast - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/greenwald-snowden-s-files-are-out-there-if-anything-happens-to-him.html?source=socialflow
I'm now thinking that someone is handling Lil Eddie. He didn't just come up with this on his own, plan it, gain access as low level contractor analyst with 90 days on the job. Either that or NSAs OPSEC is a f'n sieve.
Badger52
06-25-2013, 13:02
Vlad sure does like to stick his ass out there where it might get bitten, doesn't he? :munchinPretty sure the current administration is not something that keeps him awake at night.
We're getting into coercion, here. At what point will his shenanigans be considered information terrorism?
He's walking fairly close to that line as it is, IMO.
He has crossed the line and is in shark infested waters...
The Reaper
06-25-2013, 17:59
What is his life expectancy once they scan his USBs and hard drives?
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
TR
Trapper John
06-25-2013, 18:12
Interesting read
http://www.jesterscourt.cc/
Snip:
One thing to clear up is he didn’t work for the NSA. He worked for Booze Allen Hamilton and they contract to the NSA. The guy was a nobody, desperate be a somebody. So much so that he admitted here, that he went to work for Booze Hamilton for the specific reason of gaining intelligence about the NSA’s programmes. He’s not a fucking ‘whistleblower’ he’s a traitor. There are procedures he could have followed that are designed specifically to protect the blower of the whistle, and none of them include running to the Chinese with FOUR laptops and a USB stick full of sensitive government information.
He didn’t have to do it this way. Any rules regarding government employees, especially NSA, not being permitted to blow whistles, don’t apply here, he didn’t work for NSA he worked for a civilian contractor. Another thing people are questioning is how he had access to this stuff. Well he didn’t. What he did do as reported here, is fabricated digital keys that gave him access to areas he was not allowed to visit as a low-level contractor.
He deserves every thing he will get!!!
uspsmark
06-26-2013, 07:24
Interesting read by a fan of th3j35t3r that disagrees with him in part but has some very valid arguments to support his own opinon.
Snowden commentary (http://pastebin.com/xcbHuepb)
I agree that the leaking of the info about the NSA "spying" on Americans was a good thing, for all the rest that he has apparently done, I say he shold pay the price of treason.
And so it goes...
U.S. intelligence agencies are scrambling to salvage their surveillance of al-Qaida and other terrorists who are working frantically to change how they communicate after a National Security Agency contractor leaked details of two NSA spying programs. It's an electronic game of cat-and-mouse that could have deadly consequences if a plot is missed or a terrorist operative manages to drop out of sight.
Two U.S. intelligence officials say members of virtually every terrorist group, including core al-Qaida, are attempting to change how they communicate, based on what they are reading in the media, to hide from U.S. surveillance — the first time intelligence officials have described which groups are reacting to the leaks. The officials spoke anonymously because they were not authorized to speak about the intelligence matters publicly.
The officials wouldn't go into details on how they know this, whether it's terrorists switching email accounts or cellphone providers or adopting new encryption techniques, but a lawmaker briefed on the matter said al-Qaida's Yemeni offshoot, al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, has been among the first to alter how it reaches out to its operatives.
(Cont'd) http://bigstory.ap.org/article/al-qaida-said-be-changing-its-ways-after-leaks
Badger52
06-26-2013, 09:17
The officials spoke anonymously because they were not authorized to speak about the intelligence matters publicly.
The officials wouldn't go into details on how they know this,..Been wrong before but that always sets alarms going off for me. In its best benign circumstances, it's grand-standing because their ego is still hungry. Possibly they're trying to alter or deflect the narrative. At worst, that itself is an indicator of awareness you should not be giving to your enemies.
In other words: STFU.
ddoering
06-26-2013, 10:26
Sorry but I'm still more bothered by the fact that my government is spying on me then that the fact they are doing it has been exposed.
Paragrouper
06-26-2013, 20:15
Sorry but I'm still more bothered by the fact that my government is spying on me then that the fact they are doing it has been exposed.
I agree. Everything else resembles so much noise to distract our ADHD afflicted society.
Sorry but I'm still more bothered by the fact that my government is spying on me then that the fact they are doing it has been exposed.
That's been an on-going and growing activity since 1919 when Attorney General A. William Palmer put 24-year-old J. Edgar Hoover in charge of a new division of the Justice Department's Bureau of Investigation, the General Intelligence Division.
I, too, am bothered by the increasingly generalized breadth of its focus over the last few decades.
And so it goes...
Richard
Trapper John
06-27-2013, 07:29
I too am bothered by the breadth and scope of the potential spying on law abiding American citizens. However, I also think that collection of metadata is an important aspect of SIGINT. So there's the conundrum. How do we protect from abuses especially in light of the recent revelations re: IRS and DOJ.
IMO, as with most things, this reverts to personal responsibility. First, take charge of protecting our individual privacy. Second, take back our government by electing people of character to local, state, and federal office. Impose term limits (absolute power corrupts absolutely). Third, take charge of educating the generations that follow. And by that I mean instilling the value of the right of an individual to self-determination and the responsibility that comes with that right.
As in most things, the solutions begin with our personal choices and deeds.
Dianne feinstein said the spying is done on a lot of people because in the future they might become terrorist. That is not the exact quot but it's close. Thats all I need to hear.
Dan Carlin has a real good podcast on all this stuff. Top one is his latest.
http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/csarchive
Badger52
06-27-2013, 08:11
Sorry but I'm still more bothered by the fact that my government is spying on me then that the fact they are doing it has been exposed.Agree completely. I was speaking to the regular behavior of the "anonymous sources" who stand in line to be anonymous sources.
...for the specific reason of gaining intelligence about the NSA’s programmes.
The Jester is a limey?
Trapper John
06-27-2013, 17:23
The Jester is a limey?
Misdirection :D
Trapper John
07-01-2013, 10:03
NYT reporting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/world/europe/snowden-applies-for-asylum-in-russia.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes
Let the games begin.:munchin
(1VB)compforce
07-01-2013, 10:39
From the above article
This person has done no less to win the Nobel Peace Prize than Barack Obama
Not to change subjects, but I'm not sure what O has done, even now, to win the Nobel... It would be impossible to do less.
Snowden has long since crossed the line. Let him sit in that airport for the rest of his life...
NYT reporting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/world/europe/snowden-applies-for-asylum-in-russia.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes
Let the games begin.:munchin
Speaking at a news conference, Putin said that Snowden considers himself a rights activist, a "new dissident," and compared him to Nobel Peace Prize winner Andrei Sakharov.
In Sakharov's (translated and abridged) words: I grew up in a large communal apartment where most of the rooms were occupied by my family and relations and only a few by outsiders. The house was pervaded by a strong traditional family spirit - a vital enthusiasm for work and respect for professional competence. Within the family we provided one another with mutual support, just as we shared a love of literature and science.
I am especially grateful for the memory of my grandmother, Maria Petrovna, who was the family's good spirit. She died before the war at the age of 79. My grandmother brought up six children and when she was around 50 years old she taught herself English all on her own. Right up to the time of her death she read English works of fiction in the original. From when we were quite small she read aloud to us, her grandchildren. I still have the most vivid memory of her reading to us those evenings. It would be Pushkin, Dickens, Marlowe or Beecher-Stowe, and in Holy Week, the Gospel.
In the summer and autumn of 1942 I lived for some weeks in Kovrov where I had originally been sent to work after my graduation. Later I worked as a lumberjack in a desolate rural settlement near Melekess. My first bitter impressions of the life of the workers and peasants in that very hard time are derived from those days. In September 1942 I was sent to a large munitions factory on the Volga where I worked as an engineer and inventor right until 1945. At the factory I made a number of inventions in the field of production control. But in 1944, while still employed at the factory, I wrote some scientific articles on theoretical physics and sent them to Moscow for appraisal and comment. These first works were never published, but they gave me the self-confidence so essential to every researcher.
In 1945 I began to read for my doctorate at the Lebedev Institute, the department of physics in the Academy of Sciences of the USSR. My teacher there was the great theoretical physicist, Igor Evgenyevich Tamm.
He influenced me enormously and later became a member of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR and a winner of the Nobel Prize for physics. In 1947 I defended my thesis on nuclear physics, and in 1948 I was included in a group of research scientists whose task was to develop nuclear weapons. The leader of this group was I.E. Tamm.
For the next 20 years I worked under conditions of the highest security and under great pressure, first in Moscow and subsequently in a special secret research centre. At the time we were all convinced that this work was of vital significance for the balance of power in the world and we were fascinated by the grandeur of the task. In the foreword to my book Sakharov Speaks, as well as in My Country and the World, I have already described the development of my socio-political views in the period 1953-68 and the dramatic events which contributed to or were the expression of this development. Between 1953 and 1962 much of what happened was connected with the development of nuclear weapons and with the preparations for and realization of the nuclear experiments. At the same time I was becoming ever more conscious of the moral problems inherent in this work. In and after 1964 when I began to concern myself with the biological issues, and particularly from 1967 onwards, the extent of the problems over which I felt uneasy increased to such a point that in 1968 I felt a compelling urge to make my views public.
Thus it was that the article Progress, Peaceful Coexistence and Intellectual Freedom came into being. In reality these are the same themes which seven and a half years later were to become the title of my Nobel Lecture ("Peace, Progress and Human Rights"). I consider these themes to be fundamentally important and closely interconnected. My public stand represented a turning point for me and my entire future. The article very quickly became known throughout the world. For a long time the Soviet press contained no mention of the Progress, and later references were either disapproving in the extreme or else ironic. A great many critics, even if sympathetically disposed towards me, regarded my reflections in this work as exceedingly naive and speculative. Today, however, after eight intervening years, it seems that much of what may be termed important both in Soviet politics and in international politics is connected in one way or another with these thoughts.
From 1970 onwards the defence of human rights and the defence of the victims of political trials became all-important to me. Together with (Valery) Chalidze and Tverdokhlebov, and later with (Igor) Shafarevich and Podyapolski I shared in running the Committee for Human Rights, thus making my position quite clear. I feel bound to recall the fate of two of them. In April 1976 Andrei Tverdokhlebov was sentenced to five years exile for his social work, and in March Grigori Podyapolski was lost to us through his tragic premature death.
As early as 1950, Tamm and I were the joint originators of a Soviet work on controlled thermonuclear reaction (the thermonuclear reaction of hydrogen isotopes either for the production of electrical energy or for the production of fuel for nuclear reactors). Great advances have now been made in this work. A year later, at my initiative, experiments were started on the construction of implosive magnetic generators (devices by which chemical or nuclear reactions are transformed into magnetic field energy). In 1964 we attained a record with a magnetic field of 25 million gauss.
From July 1968, when my article was published abroad, I was removed from top-secret work and "relieved" of my privileges in the Soviet "Nomenclatura" (the privileged class at the top of the system). Since the summer of 1969 I have again been working at the Lebedev Institute where I studied, as an assistant, for my doctorate from 1945 to 1947 and began my scientific work. My present work concerns the problems connected with the theory of elementary particles, the theory of gravitation and cosmology and I shall be glad if I can manage to make some contribution to these important branches of science.
Nevertheless, it is the social issues which unremittingly demand that I make a responsible personal effort and which also lay increasing claims on my physical and mental powers. For me, the moral difficulties lie in the continual pressure brought to bear on my friends and immediate family, pressure which is not directed against me personally but which at the same time is all around me. I have written about this on many occasions but, sad to report, all that I said before applies equally today. I am no professional politician - which is perhaps why I am continually obsessed by the question as to the purpose served by the work done by my friends and myself, as well as its final result. I tend to believe that only moral criteria, coupled with mental objectivity, can serve as a sort of compass in the cross-currents of these complex problems.
I have stated in writing many times already that I intend to refrain from making any concrete political prognoses. There is a large measure of tragedy in my life at present. The sentences lately passed on my close friends - Sergei Kovalev (who just exactly at the time of the Nobel Prize ceremony was sentenced to seven years' imprisonment and three years' exile) and Andrei Tverdokhlebov - represent the clearest and most unequivocal evidence of this. Yet, even so, both now and for always, I intend to hold fast to my belief in the hidden strength of the human spirit.
Sakharov continued to work for human rights and to make statements to the West through Western correspondents in Moscow. Early in 1980, after he had denounced the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, he was exiled to Gorky. In 1984, Elena Bonner joined him, also exiled. Sakharov resorted to hunger strikes to secure medical treatment for Bonner, who was finally given permission to leave the Soviet Union for heart surgery in 1985. After Mikhail Gorbachev came to power with a policy of liberalisation, they were freed and allowed to return to Moscow in 1986. Despite the measure of freedom now possible, which enabled him to take up a political role as an elected member of the Congress of the People's Deputies, Sakharov was critical of Gorbachev, insisting that the reforms should go much further. He died in Moscow on December 14, 1989.
Yes, just like Sakharov...
Trapper John
07-01-2013, 11:41
I am guessing that Putin is pumping up Lil Eddie's stature while Barry is trying to minimize him all as a part of negotiating posturing. Lil Eddie is a trading card and the poker game is afoot IMO. My prediction - Lil Eddie is returned to the US for a price. The only question is - at what price?
Trapper John
07-01-2013, 13:06
From the Drudge Report:
euters — quoting Russia’s RIA news agency — reported Monday that Obama and Putin have told their security services to resolve the standoff over Snowden.
President Obama confirmed those reports Monday at a press conference in Africa where he said there are “high level discussions” underway with Russia to find a solution over the extradition of Snowden. Obama said he was “hopeful” that Russia would make the right decision on Snowden, who has leaked out a string of documents revealing National Security Agency spying campaigns.
Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/308717-us-russia-look-for-solution-to-snowden-controversy#ixzz2Xp2J8020
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
Full Report Here http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/308717-us-russia-look-for-solution-to-snowden-controversy#ixzz2XoAt8Fni
I am guessing that Putin is pumping up Lil Eddie's stature while Barry is trying to minimize him all as a part of negotiating posturing. Lil Eddie is a trading card and the poker game is afoot IMO. My prediction - Lil Eddie is returned to the US for a price. The only question is - at what price?
Perhaps Putin tipped his hand to part of the price -- stature. Working in Russia, you see the inferiority complex they have with the West. The average Russian is sure he is smarter and better educated than the average American, yet economically, the average Russian is much poorer. See chart attached.
Visibly taking a stand on security leaks builds their self esteem on the world stage. They will look for quid pro quo (of course) but may be of a nature we can afford. Personally, I think 30 years of Russian style dissident treatment for Snowden is fine by me. Maybe Fast Eddie will grow up. Also, if Putin is starting to distance himself from Snowden, it may be as simple as Snowden is not looking useful to the Russians so they are looking for a way to jettison him and gain some easy points. Even they have standards.
Coming from a SIGINT background, it is difficult but not impossible to stand your ground, ethically and legally. And if those routes available within the system should fail, IMHO running off to China and Russia are not indicative of heroic behavior.
Russia could do us all a favor and keep him. I've seen those documentaries on prisons in Siberia... Putin would be saving his American "partners" a lot of time effort and rubles, and get a result we could only wish for in the States.
-out
Trapper John
07-01-2013, 18:13
IMHO running off to China and Russia are not indicative of heroic behavior.
No need to be humble in that opinion at all - Lil Eddie is a narcissistic, cowardly, sniveling, traitor! Plain and simple. :lifter
The Reaper
07-01-2013, 18:23
They will keep him, 'till they have extracted every secret and bit of propaganda value.
Then they will ransom him back to us, for a tidy sum, and certain, "considerations."
For someone who considers himself a genius, Snowden doesn't seem to have thought this whole thing out very well.
Hello? McFly!?!?
TR
Trapper John
07-01-2013, 18:35
They will keep him, 'till they have extracted every secret and bit of propaganda value.
Then they will ransom him back to us, for a tidy sum, and certain, "considerations."
For someone who considers himself a genius, Snowden doesn't seem to have thought this whole thing out very well.
Hello? McFly!?!?
TR
LMAOROF @ McFLY :D
But what narcissist ever thinks beyond him/herself?
Trapper John
07-02-2013, 05:11
Seems as though Lil Eddie doesn't like Uncle Vlad's terms and has rejected asylum in Russia. Other countries are denying him too. Now the poor boy is a man without a country. What a shame.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NSA_SURVEILLANCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-02-05-44-40
Just to give a little snippet of this weasels twisted thinking:
"Although I am convicted of nothing, (the United States) has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person," Snowden says in the statement. "Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum.
Well, Duh, you treasonous little shit bag!
uspsmark
07-02-2013, 10:42
"The self-described patriot hacker known as “The Jester” says he’ll carry out cyber attacks on countries considering granting asylum to Edward Snowden."
Full online article: Pro US hacker Jester takes aim at nations helping Snowden (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/02/pro-us-hacker-jester-takes-aim-at-nations-helping-snowden/)
Seems as though Lil Eddie doesn't like Uncle Vlad's terms and has rejected asylum in Russia. Other countries are denying him too. Now the poor boy is a man without a country. What a shame.
Just about every place, every country has pros/cons. Yet despite all our real/imagined ills in America, whenever I'd spent a bunch of time OCONUS, I always found myself thankful to be American, and happy to see friendly faces when I hit US Customs at whatever airport I was entering.
With all the stress Snowdense is under, I've wondered if he's already missing this country he hates so much? Then I think no... I have a feeling with his level of "superman syndrome" he's still feeling justified and heroic and wondering why the rest of us just don't get it.
semper.porro
07-02-2013, 20:38
He's a traitor to his country, simple
The whole - redirecting the Bolivian presidents plane deal - ouch, have fun w that one DoS :p
spherojon
07-03-2013, 10:16
The whole - redirecting the Bolivian presidents plane deal - ouch, have fun w that one DoS :p
I believe you are referring to this.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/02/snowden-russia-asylum/2481831/
Looks like the international community is drawing a line in the sand. They do not want the wrath of the US coming down on them. I seriously doubt Venezuela will give Snowden asylum, which leaves only Bolivia as a possible "maybe" on the list. Everyone else has said "no" or "hell no" or technicality like Venezuela (well played) you have to submit the request in person. Point is, he is stuck in Russia, in what might as well be a prison, in limbo. Hollywood should make a movie about it, call it "The Terminal 2: Snowed-in."
Trapper John, I agree with you on a lot of points. His 1st amendment rights are not in play here. Those where stolen secrets that he put on blast. He is a traitor, plain and simple, and put our country at risk. Granted he is innocent until proven guilty, but I think hes going to spend a little more time in Russia at the Spa in what TR referenced as "extraction" of information. With any luck, hes getting his nails done...painted a new color...
"The Terminal 2: Snowed-in."
Excellent!
Trapper John
07-03-2013, 14:38
Reply to Spherojon: They do not want the wrath of the US coming down on them
Naah, but they are afraid of Jester's wrath.:D
Smokin Joe
07-03-2013, 16:43
Reply to Spherojon:
Naah, but they are afraid of Jester's wrath.:D
No Joke there, that dude is brilliant & dangerous! :)
The rest of the world may not want him, but NSA leaker Edward Snowden has at least one potential taker: Anna Chapman. The ex-spy tweeted yesterday, “Snowden, will you marry me?!”
Meanwhile, back at the Kremlin...
Russia shows growing impatience over Snowden's airport stay
By Timothy Heritage and Steve Gutterman
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Edward Snowden should find another country to seek refuge, a Russian official said on Thursday, signalling Moscow's growing impatience over the former U.S. agency spy contractor's lengthening stay at a Moscow airport.
Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said Russia had received no request for political asylum from Snowden and he had to solve his problems himself after 11 days in the transit area of Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport.
President Vladimir Putin has refused to extradite the American and Russian officials have delighted in his success in staying out of the United States' clutches since revealing details of secret U.S. government surveillance programmes.
But Moscow has also made clear that Snowden is an increasingly unwelcome guest because the longer he stays, the greater the risk of the diplomatic standoff over his fate causing lasting damage to relations with Washington.
"He needs to choose a place to go," Ryabkov told Reuters. "As of this moment, we do not have a formal application from Mr Snowden asking for asylum in the Russian Federation."
Ryabkov told Itar-Tass news agency separately that Russia "cannot solve anything for him" and the situation should now be resolved "one way or the other".
His remarks echoed comments by President Vladimir Putin, who has urged Snowden, 30, to leave as soon as he can.
Relations between Snowden and the Russian authorities appear to have soured when Putin said on Monday that Snowden could be granted asylum by Moscow only if he agreed to stop actions that could harm the United States.
Putin's press secretary, Dmitry Peskov, said on Tuesday that Snowden had withdrawn his interest in asylum in Russia after Putin spelled out the terms. His options have narrowed further since then as no country has agreed to grant him asylum. :rolleyes:
Looks like he's head to Venezuela.
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-official-snowden-accepts-venezuelan-offer-144321770.html
Snowden may be on jet from Moscow due to land in Havana in the next couple of hours.
Jester has been following this all day and pretty much hit it on the head earlier today.
http://rt.com/news/snowden-plane-route-cuba-965/
From the Washington Post online this morning:
Activist: Snowden will seek asylum in Russia
By Will Englund, Updated: Friday, July 12, 10:00 AM E-mail the writer
MOSCOW — Fugitive document-leaker Edward Snowden met with human rights activists and lawyers at Sheremetyevo Airport on Friday, and told them he would apply for political asylum in Russia, where he has been stranded since June 23.
Human Rights Watch activist Tatyana Lokshina, who was in the meeting, said Snowden would accept a demand from Russian President Vladmir Putin that he refrain from releasing harmful information about the United States while on Russian soil.
“He feels it is impossible to travel anywhere, so for the time being he is asking for asylum here,” Lokshina said. Eventually, she added, the 30-year-old former contractor for the National Security Agency still hopes to be granted asylum in Latin America.
Lokshina said Snowden “has no problem with Putin’s condition, because he does not believe he damaged the United States, or is damaging it.”
Snowden has been offered asylum by Venezuela and two other Latin American countries. But reaching those places from Moscow, with his passport suspended and Washington applying diplomatic pressure to return him to the the United States, has proven problematic.
The activists, from Human Rights Watch and other groups, including Amnesty International, entered the airport shortly before 5 p.m. local time (9 a.m. Eastern).
They gathered in Terminal F and were led on a long trek to the ground floor of Terminal E, chased by a mob of reporters, most of them from television stations.
After pushing and shoving past a group of tourists returning from Thailand and a placid woman doing embroidery, the visitors disappeared behind a door marked “Staff Only” in Russian and English.
Snowden arrived here from Hong Kong after revealing the extent of data collection programs of the NSA. The United States wants him returned to America to face criminal charges.
Among those attending Friday’s meeting was prominent Moscow lawyer Genri Reznik, head of the Moscow Bar Association.
Vladimir Lukin, Russia’s human rights ombudsman, told Interfax news agency that he had been invited to the meeting and also was prepared to go.
Snowden also invited a representative from Transparency International, which earlier this week released a report slamming Russia for corruption.
Dmitri Peskov, a spokesman for President Vladimir Putin, said no Kremlin representative was invited to the meeting.
“The Kremlin has nothing to do with either Snowden or his problem,” Peskov told Interfax. “This is not an issue for the Kremlin.”
Natasha Abbakumova contributed to this report.
Team Sergeant
07-12-2013, 08:51
From the Washington Post online this morning:
Activist: Snowden will seek asylum in Russia
By Will Englund, Updated: Friday, July 12, 10:00 AM E-mail the writer
MOSCOW — Fugitive document-leaker Edward Snowden met with human rights activists and lawyers at Sheremetyevo Airport on Friday, and told them he would apply for political asylum in Russia, where he has been stranded since June 23.
Sounds like a Tom Hanks movie...... The Terminal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciByvddyHBs)
:rolleyes:
Pericles
07-12-2013, 12:02
25776
There went another keyboard ....
Group hug....Snowden / Wikileaks / Russia's FSB.
Interesting piece on "defection" vs "whistle blowing":
http://joshuafoust.com/snowdens-defection/
Found this today:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=698_1373651103
Trapper John
07-13-2013, 05:16
Found this today:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=698_1373651103
A true sociopath's behavior - rationalization of his actions. :mad:
More from journalist Joshua Foust on "The Defection of Edward Snowden". [LINK] (https://medium.com/state-of-play/d2ca30c2f2ab)
I found the timeline particularly interesting. It appears Snowden's activities were lining up with Wikileak's execs/activists earlier this year, or even late last year, long before the "whistleblowing".
The unfortunate thing is the honest/thorough discussion we Americans needed to have about privacy/data collection has been lost in the Snowden circus. Many spying programs started under Clinton or Bush have continued to mushroom in depth, scope and capability (w/ limited oversight) under Obama.
I'm stuck. As an American patriot, I don't feel I need to know everything about what is collected for national security. But where does my "reasonable" level of privacy begin and end. I don't want every bit of my personal data collected in case I might commit a crime some day, but for security what does my country really need? Why can't anyone tie results to data use...in all other areas of American business we have to use fuzzy models to predict forward (or in hindsight) how the data influenced our success. It appears to me (might be ignorant) that the current NSA model is "leave no data behind".
I still find those difficult questions....and as a country, are we going to have a meaningful conversation about it?
But with Snowden, can anyone really call him merely a "whistleblower" anymore? I can't.
Trapper John
07-26-2013, 17:50
I think you are correct, Orion, in that Lil' Eddie is not a factor in the discussion any longer, and I am not sure he ever really was. But, to get to the larger question, I think we first need to decide what constitutes privacy? The information technology revolution has certainly changed the game. Every time you purchase a product at a retailer, buy groceries, or pay for anything with a credit or debit card your purchasing habits are tracked. This information is sold to other retailers and your personal buying habits are used to tailor marketing specifically for you.
Your health information is being centralized and is accessible by physicians, insurers, and pharmacists. Probably a good idea to prevent dangerous drug-drug interactions, but also potentially abused. If you are on anti-depressants and run for public office, that can be discovered by the opposition. Or if you are applying for an executive level position at a major corporation you can bet that will be discovered.
Virtually every thing about you is discoverable through your metadata footprint. So what is privacy today and does this even matter? I am not sure.
What I am sure of is, that this is the consequence of the information technology revolution. Frankly, I don't see any counter and I doubt any one of us are willing to give up credit cards, debit cards, cell phones, lap tops, and all the rapid communications tools. These are no longer mere conveniences.
I think our environment has changed and it us up to us as individuals and as a society to adapt to that new environment. Privacy and its protection, like everything else, is a personal responsibility. The issue for each of us is to define what that really means for us and then act accordingly.
I don't yet have answer for myself, let alone anyone else. But I do think that I have framed the issue for me and that's the first step. Your opinion may vary and probably should. :D
Where I think I have to draw the line is the point where it seems that Big Brother has listening devices in my home or is reading my email, which I liken to gathering the metadata. Privacy isn't just a privilege, but it is one of our rights, and it is being eroded away.
I don't mind so much having my mouse clicks tracked so that someone might want to sell me something I may or may not want. I can simply delete that email, or throw the unwanted offer away. I can also opt out of unwanted emails or paper direct mail, so I don't consider that a huge intrusion. I don't mind giving my zip code for pay at the pump as a security measure.
But when it gets truly personal, that is where I draw the line. Also, who knows what they will be able to do in the future with the data that they have now with any technology that hasn't been developed yet. The data isn't going anywhere.
As to the medical stuff, that is just making me sick(er). There is no opting out of that and it scares the hell out of me what some people can and will do with that info. There is just absolutely no way anyone should have that much control over such intimate information. And I don't know how that can be stopped. That isn't just peeking into our living rooms, but our bedrooms and bathrooms too.
Where I think I have to draw the line is the point where it seems that Big Brother has listening devices in my home or is reading my email, which I liken to gathering the metadata. Privacy isn't just a privilege, but it is one of our rights, and it is being eroded away.
I don't mind so much having my mouse clicks tracked so that someone might want to sell me something I may or may not want. I can simply delete that email, or throw the unwanted offer away. I can also opt out of unwanted emails or paper direct mail, so I don't consider that a huge intrusion. I don't mind giving my zip code for pay at the pump as a security measure.
But when it gets truly personal, that is where I draw the line. Also, who knows what they will be able to do in the future with the data that they have now with any technology that hasn't been developed yet. The data isn't going anywhere.
As to the medical stuff, that is just making me sick(er). There is no opting out of that and it scares the hell out of me what some people can and will do with that info. There is just absolutely no way anyone should have that much control over such intimate information. And I don't know how that can be stopped. That isn't just peeking into our living rooms, but our bedrooms and bathrooms too.
My view is a little different. Retailers may use convicts to access that data. Now they have all my habits and my address -- oh.. and early parole. So I am not sure that I would set out on a premise that businesses having my data is ok but government -- no way. Deciding what constitutes privacy in a digital age should be a discussion that starts all inclusive. "Truly personal" sounds a bit arbitrary. This topic is interesting but is like un-ringing a bell. I operate off the premise that all of my digital information is not secure at some level. In every large company employees are warned not to put anything in an email that they would not mind appearing on the front page on the New York Times.
Digital privacy is an oxymoron.
My view is a little different. Retailers may use convicts to access that data. Now they have all my habits and my address -- oh.. and early parole. So I am not sure that I would set out on a premise that businesses having my data is ok but government -- no way. Deciding what constitutes privacy in a digital age should be a discussion that starts all inclusive. "Truly personal" sounds a bit arbitrary. This topic is interesting but is like un-ringing a bell. I operate off the premise that all of my digital information is not secure at some level. In every large company employees are warned not to put anything in an email that they would not mind appearing on the front page on the New York Times.
Digital privacy is an oxymoron.
Agreed. The govt should never have it, unless they have a warrant and probable cause. As to businesses having it, and unauthorized people, or authorized people, accessing it, mining and using for inappropriate purposes, is a risk we take for the convenience of having an ATM card or credit card, or credit for that matter. Unless you are completely off the grid, someone will have your info. It is scary the amount of info you can get on someone simply by doing a google search and following the links.
I think you are correct, Orion, in that Lil' Eddie is not a factor in the discussion any longer, and I am not sure he ever really was. But, to get to the larger question, I think we first need to decide what constitutes privacy? The information technology revolution has certainly changed the game. Every time you purchase a product at a retailer, buy groceries, or pay for anything with a credit or debit card your purchasing habits are tracked. This information is sold to other retailers and your personal buying habits are used to tailor marketing specifically for you.
Your health information is being centralized and is accessible by physicians, insurers, and pharmacists. Probably a good idea to prevent dangerous drug-drug interactions, but also potentially abused. If you are on anti-depressants and run for public office, that can be discovered by the opposition. Or if you are applying for an executive level position at a major corporation you can bet that will be discovered.
Virtually every thing about you is discoverable through your metadata footprint. So what is privacy today and does this even matter? I am not sure.
What I am sure of is, that this is the consequence of the information technology revolution. Frankly, I don't see any counter and I doubt any one of us are willing to give up credit cards, debit cards, cell phones, lap tops, and all the rapid communications tools. These are no longer mere conveniences.
I think our environment has changed and it us up to us as individuals and as a society to adapt to that new environment. Privacy and its protection, like everything else, is a personal responsibility. The issue for each of us is to define what that really means for us and then act accordingly.
I don't yet have answer for myself, let alone anyone else. But I do think that I have framed the issue for me and that's the first step. Your opinion may vary and probably should. :D
TJ, agree with you on IT continuing to change the game.
When you say "what constitutes privacy", my assumption, no matter how naive, has been that my electronic transactions are not all linked together in one giant database. As a law-abiding American citizen, I have assumed that my Visa spending habits are not joined up with other state databases on my taxes, voting records, etc, or with private databases on my health, ancestry, or social media habits. I would consider those linkups "unreasonable".
I don't want to give up my credit cards, but why should I agree to have that spending data attached to my health records and voting records? Could be just me.
On your question about whether it even matters, I think it does because of the opportunity for abuse. Since I've worked so many years in the IT business I've seen the gamut of abuses - from sloppy controls, or sloppy outsourcing, to system admins with poor characters (ala Snowden).
I also think it matters because you are wasting time dragging the net too wide. I have found in my career that many approach IT solutions as "the more the better", and yet it rarely is. I've seen crippling amounts of data/statistics introduced into a manufacturing environment, and it did not drive up product quality. I've seen the same thing in customer service. Tons of metrics collected for call time, repeat calls, etc, and the extra volume of data did not increase customer satisfaction.
It seems Intelligence professionals should stay focused on what result they're after, and what data is helping to achieve that result. Not "the more the better". No doubt this PC culture we're in makes groups afraid that if they only go after that small segment of data that represents the people actually attacking us, they will get sued.
I've been trying to give this whole thing serious thought, though not sure the point. Most of the discussion (and hysteria) at the national level seems to stick on things I don't really care about. Politicians have a way of doing that.
Thanks for your response, TJ.
Peregrino
07-27-2013, 19:10
----- It seems Intelligence professionals should stay focused on what result they're after, and what data is helping to achieve that result. Not "the more the better". No doubt this PC culture we're in makes groups afraid that if they only go after that small segment of data that represents the people actually attacking us, they will get sued.
I've been trying to give this whole thing serious thought, though not sure the point. Most of the discussion (and hysteria) at the national level seems to stick on things I don't really care about. Politicians have a way of doing that.
Thanks for your response, TJ.
O5 - Check out the following article: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/06/prism_metadata_analysis_paul_revere_identified_by_ his_connections_to_other.html. It's a nice "tip of the iceberg" piece. With the right filters, "the more, the merrier" yields phenomenal results. A "broad net" and a decent linking program can create a relational database that allows the extraction of trends and patterns (that's the important stuff - it's predictive) the implications of which should frighten any intelligent person into wanting more controls and much greater personal privacy. Anyone who believes they still have an expectation of personal privacy in the digital age is either naïve, or willfully deluded. Hint: look at some of the market research software used by Coke and Pepsi as they fight for fractions of a market percentage. It's a very tiny step from "targeted advertising" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/business/attention-shopper-stores-are-tracking-your-cell.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&) popping up on your GPS enabled smartphone to "are you likely to harbor and act on impulses contrary to the public good". What was that cheesy Tom Cruz movie about preemptive thought police? That future isn't very far away.
Anyone who believes they still have an expectation of personal privacy in the digital age is either naïve, or willfully deluded.
Thanks, P....clearly I'm more naive than I realized. I glanced through the link, but will read more thoroughly later w/ glass of Woodford in hand and dunce cap on head.
The Russian's have granted him temporary asylum for an year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23535524
His daddy said after this news that it'd be better if his "hero" son does not come back to the US as he believes the US will not give his son a fair trial.
This is the expat English language paper found in restaurants across Moscow..
10 Tips for a Free Snowden (Photo Essay)
01 August 2013 | Issue 5182
The Moscow Tiimes
Now that U.S. intelligence leaker Edward Snowden is a genuine expat, armed with papers giving him refugee status for one year and free to roam Russia's capital while he figures out his next move, here is a list of 10 do's and don'ts that he should keep in mind.
To read more: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/10-tips-for-a-free-snowden-photo-essay/483969.html
Utah Bob
08-01-2013, 10:08
Ah yes. A life of freedom and luxury in the Russian Republic.
Pass me the bottle, Putin old pard, and I'll tell ya some more interesting tales about those Amerikan swine. :munchin