View Full Version : Suggestons for combat handgun training--on a budget
Chaplain Scott
05-12-2013, 17:33
I just finished round one of Pre-qualification shooting for our Reserve Police Academy--the "Old Guy" with his antiquated 1911 soundly outshot all the young whipper-snappers :D
At the same time, I also am smart enough to know that shooting paper-targets is not the same as real-live combat shooting--where adrenalin impacts motor-skills. So my question to the folks here, is this: when you are on a very limited budget, what are some recommendations for trying to duplicate those conditions (high stress) for training--or is it even reasonable to attempt to do so?
The "Old Guy" appreciates your input :)
The Reaper
05-12-2013, 17:50
I just finished round one of Pre-qualification shooting for our Reserve Police Academy--the "Old Guy" with his antiquated 1911 soundly outshot all the young whipper-snappers :D
At the same time, I also am smart enough to know that shooting paper-targets is not the same as real-live combat shooting--where adrenalin impacts motor-skills. So my question to the folks here, is this: when you are on a very limited budget, what are some recommendations for trying to duplicate those conditions (high stress) for training--or is it even reasonable to attempt to do so?
The "Old Guy" appreciates your input :)
Dry fire. BB gun. Airsoft.
TR
frostfire
05-12-2013, 22:17
Dry fire. BB gun. Airsoft.
TR
and a timer. No need to go all $$$$ fancy. These pick dry fire sound and airsoft just fine. They're free as well
For android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.stimer&hl=en
If using iphone/ipad
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shottimer/id295005845?mt=8
then run to standards, don't cheat, and increase your combat load, fatigue level. For example:
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/standards.htm
Had one "student"with mutiple deployements once who was very happy once he got all groups in A zone after several attempts. I informed him that he still failed the time. He responded that he didn't care for time. He then walked away and I had no intention of calling him back. Oh well, some shooters stop at good and prevent themselves from great. You can lead a horse......
FWIW, someone wrote that there's no timer in combat, but the sob's intending you harm are probably in a hurry. Thus, time constraint can be a cheap, effective, and practical stress replicator.
Peregrino
05-13-2013, 17:26
and a timer. No need to go all $$$$ fancy. These pick dry fire sound and airsoft just fine. They're free as well. -------------
OK - You get value added points for these! :p My PACT Club timer won't pick up Airsoft noise and practicing to par time isn't quite as exciting. Thanks.
frostfire
05-13-2013, 23:07
OK - You get value added points for these! :p My PACT Club timer won't pick up Airsoft noise and practicing to par time isn't quite as exciting. Thanks.
yippee...what price do I get with the points exchanged? A trip to NRA HP matches for nostalgia:D ? A match m9/1911 loaner to shoot P100 this year?
Anyhow, I was surprised as well when I found out the $150 timer would not pick up dry fire (both hammer and striker) and airsoft.
Beware though. I haven't figured out all the kinks with the echo function, but it makes your performance on the android/iphone much faster than the pro timer. Along the line of .61 vs. .95 which does make a big difference eventually. So run with live fire with the pro timer and validate the cost-effective training
Destrier
05-14-2013, 04:57
An investment in a .22 lr upper for your pistol can also be utilized. In short order it will be paid for by the cost difference in ammunition. (current availability of .22 lr might be a problem for some, but it should level out in time)
For draws and first shot it is typically exactly the same. Multiple shots is not giving you the recoil however, so I practiced my draws and first shots, then switched back to real ammo for my controlled pairs or multiple target engagements.
For most of us that carry as civilians, first shot in my opinion is going to be the most important.
and a timer. No need to go all $$$$ fancy. These pick dry fire sound and airsoft just fine. They're free as well
For android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.stimer&hl=en
If using iphone/ipad
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shottimer/id295005845?mt=8
then run to standards, don't cheat, and increase your combat load, fatigue level. For example:
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/standards.htm
Had one "student"with mutiple deployements once who was very happy once he got all groups in A zone after several attempts. I informed him that he still failed the time. He responded that he didn't care for time. He then walked away and I had no intention of calling him back. Oh well, some shooters stop at good and prevent themselves from great. You can lead a horse......
FWIW, someone wrote that there's no timer in combat, but the sob's intending you harm are probably in a hurry. Thus, time constraint can be a cheap, effective, and practical stress replicator.
Nice App, thanks.
Sorry to hear about your student, hopefully they don't learn the hard way --- .500 is too slow...half it and you're in the ballpark...Tested App with revolver dry fire ....there's a delay from start before timing on droid...enough so it doesn't get the first shot...
Chaplain Scott
05-19-2013, 15:09
Thanks for the replies---been busy--death in the family, finishing up the Academy, etc, etc.......
Tree Potato
05-20-2013, 17:52
Condolences on your loss.
As for training, another option might be using a Laserlyte (http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/116718/laserlyte-laser-trainer-target-system) system with your carry weapon and a timer. They don't look durable enough to be a primary training tool (no first hand experience here), but may add some variety to help keep the stress level up.
Practice with your TV set.
First, clear the handgun. Clear it twice, three times. Make very sure.
Pick an actor in a TV movie or series, and each time that actor comes on screen, shoot him or her in the head.
Modern movies and TV shows have very fast-paced editing. Scenes quickly change, unexpectedly. You will not know when the scene will shift, and you will learn to get your front sight on the actor's head quickly, and squeeze off a dry-fire hammer or striker fall, very quickly.
Has anyone ever put a round through their TV doing this? I suspect so. Don't you do that. Clear your weapon, repeatedly and frequently. And, don't mix alcohol with this practice.
Nice added benefit: the bright TV back-lighting on your front sight lets you clearly see where the sight went at the moment of striker or hammer fall. Call your shots, low, high, left, right. Look for the pattern and correct it.
Team Sergeant
05-21-2013, 08:04
Practice with your TV set.
First, clear the handgun. Clear it twice, three times. Make very sure.
Pick an actor in a TV movie or series, and each time that actor comes on screen, shoot him or her in the head.
Modern movies and TV shows have very fast-paced editing. Scenes quickly change, unexpectedly. You will not know when the scene will shift, and you will learn to get your front sight on the actor's head quickly, and squeeze off a dry-fire hammer or striker fall, very quickly.
Has anyone ever put a round through their TV doing this? I suspect so. Don't you do that. Clear your weapon, repeatedly and frequently. And, don't mix alcohol with this practice.
Nice added benefit: the bright TV back-lighting on your front sight lets you clearly see where the sight went at the moment of striker or hammer fall. Call your shots, low, high, left, right. Look for the pattern and correct it.
Ken, did you happen to read the rules of this forum?
"Practice with your TV set."
Do us a favor and keep little gems like that for AR15.com
Team Sergeant wrote:
Ken, did you happen to read the rules of this forum?
"Practice with your TV set."
Do us a favor and keep little gems like that for AR15.com
=====
How embarrassing.
Second post as a new guy and I seriously step on it.
Sorry about that.
We do all of our handgun training with snap caps, these days.
Team Sergeant
05-21-2013, 10:15
Team Sergeant wrote:
Ken, did you happen to read the rules of this forum?
"Practice with your TV set."
Do us a favor and keep little gems like that for AR15.com
=====
How embarrassing.
Second post as a new guy and I seriously step on it.
Sorry about that.
You might want to re-read the rules again also.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3452
Patriot007
05-21-2013, 10:35
To the QPs:
What are your thoughts on DA/SA as a platform for learning- good, bad, neutral vs DAO or striker handguns?
From what I interpret upper body/grip strength and basic marksmanship principles are more important than the tool, but was wondering what your individual thoughts of having two different trigger pulls, another variable, as being a good or bad thing for a novice trying to first learn to put bullets through the same hole.
Peregrino
05-21-2013, 17:23
Pick a pistol. It doesn't matter what kind of trigger it has; learn to shoot it. Most people can only afford one pistol and most of them don't have a choice what kind of trigger it has. Those who practice usually get better, those who fixate on the type of trigger usually don't. SA, DA, SA/DA, DAO, none of it is important if you treat each shot as a unique event and apply the fundamentals every time you pull the trigger. It doesn't get any more complicated than that - unless you want to handicap yourself with trivialities.
Patriot007
05-21-2013, 21:34
Great, thank you! I appreciate your advice.
The_Mentalist
06-23-2013, 07:15
Simunition conversions work well if you have a big yard and the neighbors won't complain. You can set up IDPA type targets and run scenarios or just a plate rack and have some one call off which one to shoot at. Mother option is to use the shot timer (the one for the iPhone works great, but if you use an iPod it has to be one with a camera or no microphone for it to hear the shots) and shoot the plates in different orders. I.E. 5,8,2,7,3,9,4,1,10 and next time shoot in a different order. This will help in target acquisition since you are not just going down the line. I also like using the"tumbling" targets. Just make sure you are not shooting in a situation where ricochets can be an issue since you will be shooting at the ground.