PDA

View Full Version : Video of house search in Boston


Sdiver
04-21-2013, 12:02
Speaking of tin foil .....

This is what a police state looks like. Could this be the shape of things to come if Barry and the dims get their way? Tinfoil Hat

Unknown if it was believed that the suspect was report/suspected to be in this house, or exactly what the deal was to warrant such a "strong arm" tactic. I'm sure we'll see a few more of these videos pop up in the next few days.

:munchin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8

ETA .....

Here is more of the same video I posted above. It has an additional seven plus minutes to it.

You can see the LE leave the house and then the family members start to come back to their home. One even picks up their dog, (which looks like a shepard) that was tied up on the fence.

You can also see people start to come out of their homes after the LE leave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqJUam-KKcY

SF_BHT
04-21-2013, 12:56
Hard to tell the context. What if that was a house connected with one of the suspects? What if they had a warrant for that house? Hard to tell when you only know one of the three sides of the issue.

Remember this was the first time that people and LEOs here were presented with a possible Suicide vest issue.

I personally will give them a little..... Leeway ....

Team Sergeant
04-21-2013, 13:09
Hard to tell the context. What if that was a house connected with one of the suspects? What if they had a warrant for that house? Hard to tell when you only know one of the three sides of the issue.

Remember this was the first time that people and LEOs here were presented with a possible Suicide vest issue.

I personally will give them a little..... Leeway ....

I would agree with its hard to tell what's going on, that said....

If what is going on is cops searching houses without a warrant then someone needs to answer for this. I don't care if bin laden was in the area and unlawful search is an unlawful search. This happened during Katrina, scared cops doing whatever they wanted, including disarming good citizens.

Come to my house "guns drawn" expect a very bad surprise.

SF_BHT
04-21-2013, 13:24
I would agree with its hard to tell what's going on, that said....

If what is going on is cops searching houses without a warrant then someone needs to answer for this. I don't care if bin laden was in the area and unlawful search is an unlawful search. This happened during Katrina, scared cops doing whatever they wanted, including disarming good citizens.

Come to my house "guns drawn" expect a very bad surprise.

I can tell you that they were doing searches and had no warrants. We were debating it as things evolved in our office. We had a lot of different opinions and interpretation of the law while he day progressed.

I too would have a Big problem if they tried to force us out of our house without a warrant. On the other hand if they came there and asked to check the house in this situation and were polite and non aggressive with me when I talked to them at my door I would probaly invite them in as I got the family into the living room.

Team Sergeant
04-21-2013, 13:30
I can tell you that they were doing searches and had no warrants. We were debating it as things evolved in our office. We had a lot of different opinions and interpretation of the law while he day progressed.

I too would have a Big problem if they tried to force us out of our house without a warrant. On the other hand if they came there and asked to check the house in this situation and were polite and non aggressive with me when I talked to them at my door I would probaly invite them in as I got the family into the living room.

Asking politely with guns pointing at the ground would have been the way to go.

All this shows me is pure irrational fear on the part of law enforcement.

perdurabo
04-21-2013, 13:44
Come to my house "guns drawn" expect a very bad surprise.

And they'd shoot and kill you (unless you had some serious force-multiplying UW gear set up) and the news media would turn up your PS.com posts and paint you as a grumpy right-wing terrorist, who served honorably in the military as a QP, with ties to people who had ties to people who were Minutemen, but as some point, you "lost" it.

This video is repulsive, but it would've happened under a President in either political party, at this point. We've lost.

Team Sergeant
04-21-2013, 13:49
And they'd shoot and kill you (unless you had some serious force-multiplying UW gear set up) and the news media would turn up your PS.com posts and paint you as a right-wing terrorist, who served honorably in the military as a QP, with ties to people who had ties to people who were Minutemen, but as some point, you "lost" it.

This video is repulsive.

You think very highly of local law enforcement abilities don't you....;)

The video shows law enforcement operating on pure fear.

perdurabo
04-21-2013, 13:54
You think very highly of local law enforcement abilities don't you....;)

The video shows law enforcement operating on pure fear.

You know a lot more about combat and UW than I do (understatement of the year, right? :D), but I'm inclined to think if you have a violent response to their power trip, there's be several dozen shoot-happy jackasses heading to your 10-20 in a jiff. And there'll always be waves after that. This is assuming a suburban scenario.

The video shows law enforcement operating on pure fear.

Yes, this is particularly scary. They aren't striking me as being in the calm, professional state of mind.

Team Sergeant
04-21-2013, 14:15
The video shows the what to expect when those with "authority" over step their authority and throw out the rule of law. The very rule of law that was put in place so that this abuse of power didn't occur in the first place.

That video also shows how communism works and how it is applied. Your government knows what is best for you and if they need to they will shove it down your throat under the justification that it was a crisis or it was for your safety.

What those in authority fail to realize is that their authority or power is an illusion.

Beef
04-21-2013, 14:21
WTF! Excuse me! I need some clarification here: Was that video made in Tikrit or Watertown???? Was that how all of the house to house searches were conducted? I don't recall hearing that martial law was declared, but I must have missed something. Why did they make the residents raise their hands? What probable cause? Why did they pat them down? None of those residents remotely resembled the suspect and everyone in North America knew what the guy looked like from the non-stop display of multiple photos of him. I did have to laugh when people kept coming out of the house like clowns coming out of a Volkswagen. Must have been a family reunion. But all in all, a very disturbing video. Lucky it was in the People's Republic of Mass. where everyone is unarmed and afraid. The LEOs would have had a rougher time with Billy Bob and Jimmy Don. It would have gone south quickly, particularly as TS stated, the LEOs were operating on pure fear.

Beef
04-21-2013, 14:26
The audio is actually more disturbing than the video portion.

Team Sergeant
04-21-2013, 14:59
The really sad part is that one 19 year old punk placed all that fear into the LEO's. Imagine what would happen if it were a dozen islamic terrorists......

I'd like to hear how the local LEO's thought said islamic terrorist punk might have been wearing a bomb vest........

Trust me they are taking note on what went down and I would expect some are in the planning stages now to do the very same thing in the near future......

I'm also of the thought that "our" current gov administration would NOT want to classify these islamic punks as terrorists. That would mean that we are in fact engaged in a war with islam.

And again DHS and it's incompetent director was wrong again........ this was not the work of an individual....... this was in fact islamic terrorists and they will stike again.

Paslode
04-21-2013, 15:07
You think very highly of local law enforcement abilities don't you....;)

The video shows law enforcement operating on pure fear.


What crossed my mind...

The city was locked down for a day looking for 2 suspects, hundreds if not thousands of highly armed personnel roaming the streets doing house to house searches and rumored seizures, the op cost huge sums of money and they couldn't find suspect with all their numbers and high tech equipment.

Then officals gave the all clear and almost immediately a citizen walks out to take a smoke and see's evidence the suspect is hiding in his boat.

Not too bag Boston's Officials, LEO's and others involved but......that was kind of a big show and it would have resulted in nothing where it not for the guy taking a smoke.

They were only looking to 2 suspects.....if had been 5 or more they have probably locked down the entire East Coast.

sinjefe
04-21-2013, 15:17
I only saw one house being searched. And how could you tell they didn't have a search warrant for that house and that it wasn't connected to these two (by watching the video)?

SF_BHT
04-21-2013, 16:20
What crossed my mind...

The city was locked down for a day looking for 2 suspects, hundreds if not thousands of highly armed personnel roaming the streets doing house to house searches and rumored seizures, the op cost huge sums of money and they couldn't find suspect with all their numbers and high tech equipment.

Then officals gave the all clear and almost immediately a citizen walks out to take a smoke and see's evidence the suspect is hiding in his boat.

Not too bag Boston's Officials, LEO's and others involved but......that was kind of a big show and it would have resulted in nothing where it not for the guy taking a smoke.

They were only looking to 2 suspects.....if had been 5 or more they have probably locked down the entire East Coast.

By Friday there was almost 9,000 local, state and Federal LEOs there working the case. A shitload of cops

So far no one knows if they were the only ones involved....... Only continued intel will determine that.;)

Dusty
04-21-2013, 16:38
I'd say "All's well that ends well", but it ain't over, from what I'm reading.

BigJimCalhoun
04-21-2013, 17:17
I found an alternate opinion here, that implies that suits warrant-less searches have not been successful.

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/04/20/bringing-out-the-worst-in-us.aspx?ref=rss

Badger52
04-21-2013, 17:30
I found an alternate opinion here, that implies that suits warrant-less searches have not been successful.

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/04/20/bringing-out-the-worst-in-us.aspx?ref=rssI think at least or more important are his observations regarding what the American public is willing to tolerate in a sudden return to the realization that, gee, maybe we all can't just get along. "But I sure wish we could."

fng13
04-21-2013, 17:40
I'm a nobody everyday citizen, but I really don't like this picture.

Rolling down the street like it's Baghdad and any person in any window merits guns trained on them is not cool to me.


I understand urgency and everyone wanted this resolved, be the hero etc etc.

ETA: I put this in the best photo editor I have (not that great) zoomed in and cleared the picture as best as possible and I can't tell if his finger is outside the trigger guard indexing it or if that's his knuckle. Probably indexing it but it still doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

VVVV
04-21-2013, 17:52
My nephew and his wife were there visiting friends. A SWAT team came to the door and asked if they could search their house They invited them in. They searched the house, yard, garage My nephew (an attorney) said they (the police) were very professional, and polite. He said most of the people in the neighborhood were glad the police were there.

sinjefe
04-21-2013, 18:44
First exception is if LE is in hot pursuit ie they are chasing a suspect and have reasonable suspension they may be in a house etc. (this is the case here they were standing on.)
.

A particular house but not every house.

GratefulCitizen
04-21-2013, 19:01
"If the provisions of the Constitution be not upheld when they pinch as well as when they comfort, they may as well be abandoned."

-Supreme Court Justice Charles Evans Hughes

VVVV
04-21-2013, 19:05
Anything found illegal during the searches other then what they specifically were looking for ie the bad guy is NOT admissible in court. Lets say they found a bag of drugs in a house unrelated to the terrorist. It can not be enterd in court as evidence.



From what my nephew said, they were looking for "Perp #2", nothing else.

Dozer523
04-21-2013, 22:04
Eleven adults came out of that clown car . . . I mean house.

WRMETTLER
04-22-2013, 01:21
The US Supreme Court has partially addressed exigency exceptions to the requirement of a warrant in Brigham City v. Stuart, 126 S. Ct. 1943, 164 L.Ed.2d 650, 547 U.S. 398 (2006). The Court wrote:

One exigency obviating the requirement of a warrant is the need to assist persons who are seriously injured or threatened with such injury. "`The need to protect or preserve life or avoid serious injury is justification for what would be otherwise illegal absent an exigency or emergency.'" Id., at 392 (quoting Wayne v. United States, 318 F. 2d 205, 212 (CADC 1963) (Burger, J.)); see also Tyler, supra, at 509. Accordingly, law enforcement officers may enter a home without a warrant to render emergency assistance to an injured occupant or to protect an occupant from imminent injury.

That being said, the Court also requires an objectively reasonable basis to believe that an occupant is threatened with injury. The Court wrote:

An action is "reasonable" under the Fourth Amendment, regardless of the individual officer's state of mind, "as long as the circumstances, viewed objectively, justify [the] action. Id.

The police knew the bomber was in the area, but had no specific information that he was in any particular home. In reality, they had no objective information that any particular occupant was in imminent danger of being injured by the bomber.

Would the Court extent this exception to the Fourth Amendment to include a search for an extremely dangerous bomber who has shown the ability – indeed the desire- to inflict indiscriminate damage on as many people as possible. I don’t know, but if I remember a court ruled on the New Orleans PD entering flood ravaged homes to make sure no one injured remained inside. I can’t find it right now, but I see where something like a common threat would cause a legal search.

Dusty
04-22-2013, 03:54
In reality, they had no objective information that any particular occupant was in imminent danger of being injured by the bomber.



Then, what were they afraid of?

Paragrouper
04-22-2013, 05:56
Then, what were they afraid of?

Writing all those warrants.

sinjefe
04-22-2013, 06:27
The US Supreme Court has partially addressed exigency exceptions to the requirement of a warrant in Brigham City v. Stuart, 126 S. Ct. 1943, 164 L.Ed.2d 650, 547 U.S. 398 (2006). The Court wrote:

One exigency obviating the requirement of a warrant is the need to assist persons who are seriously injured or threatened with such injury. "`The need to protect or preserve life or avoid serious injury is justification for what would be otherwise illegal absent an exigency or emergency.'" Id., at 392 (quoting Wayne v. United States, 318 F. 2d 205, 212 (CADC 1963) (Burger, J.)); see also Tyler, supra, at 509. Accordingly, law enforcement officers may enter a home without a warrant to render emergency assistance to an injured occupant or to protect an occupant from imminent injury.


I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me if you can stretch that opinion from what it is probably intended for (a single instance) to warrantless searches of every house in a city, then you could stretch that same opinion to search every house of a state or a nation if you wanted.

Thus the reason I am skeptical that this is what it means.

Brian C
04-22-2013, 06:48
Exigent Circumstances for us, in my world at least, means things like kicked in door with blood around, hearing screams for help inside, etc where there is an immediate threat of life. So you would be correct sinjefe.

A year or so ago we had a shooting, bunch of hood rat small time gang bangers, and we had info that our shooting victim was inside an apartment. We stacked up and were banging on the door for a while, until we finally go the go ahead to kick the door from a Sgt. Kicking the door was based off the exigent circumstance that our victim was badly shot, bleeding out, unconscious, or whatever other means would prevent them from answering the door. In the end, we kicked the door, shooting victim's cousin started shooting at us as soon as the door flew open and my partner got shot and a few of us barely missed getting shot in the head through the wall, but we found the victim after that little debacle.

One could stretch the exigent circumstance, but in this case, if it were ever pushed in court, it would be a tough battle to fight.

Paslode
04-22-2013, 07:09
My nephew and his wife were there visiting friends. A SWAT team came to the door and asked if they could search their house They invited them in. They searched the house, yard, garage My nephew (an attorney) said they (the police) were very professional, and polite. He said most of the people in the neighborhood were glad the police were there.

That is what I had read, the LEO's went to the door and asked if they could search the home(s) and the home owners were requested to have everything open and unlocked. The search was apparently limited to a 20 square block area.

What happens or happened if a home owner denied the request?


What happens if the LEO's find contraband during their search that is unrelated to what they are searching for?

Brian C
04-22-2013, 07:19
What happens if the LEO's find contraband during their search that is unrelated to what they are searching for?

I can't comment on families denying it, I wasn't there and do not know the circumstances of what they may have been told, so I won't speculate.

As far as finding something aside from a body, I know around here that if I have a legal right to be in that area, say the family consented to a search, and I stumbled across whatever, that would be good to go in court.

Like with an arrest warrant, an arrest warrant is solely for the body named in that warrant. If I enter a house and he's in a bedroom, but the living room that I walk through has cocaine all over the table, that can be seized and dealt with because I had to walk through the living room to get to the bedroom where the person was. Now if it were found in a room that was completely out of the way from the direct path I took to get to the bedroom, that'd be tough to fight.

Search warrants are different, those are based off the property, be it an address and everything on that property including curtilage, or just a specific vehicle. Search warrants allow you to poke around dope houses or whatever.

Given the entire picture of what all the teams were doing in the Boston area, I don't think they would have paid much attention to anything other than the bomber.

VVVV
04-22-2013, 07:20
How do we know:

1. That this video was taken in Watertown, or even connected to the search for perp #2?

2. That they didn't have a warrant? It doesn't appear to be part of a house-by- house neighborhood search to me.

3. That someone wasn't taken into custody?

:munchin:munchin:munchin

sinjefe
04-22-2013, 07:40
How do we know:

1. That this video was taken in Watertown, or even connected to the search for perp #2?

2. That they didn't have a warrant? It doesn't appear to be part of a house-by- house neighborhood search to me.

3. That someone wasn't taken into custody?

:munchin:munchin:munchin

As I said in post #14

Five-O
04-22-2013, 10:29
[QUOTE=Team Sergeant;502855]Asking politely with guns pointing at the ground would have been the way to go.

QUOTE]


A little common sense and respect goes a hell of a long way.

The Reaper
04-22-2013, 10:49
The answer is still no. Politely, of course.

If you want to search my house, and you didn't see him run into it, or duress signs from us indicating that he is there, go get a warrant.

I am pretty certain that if they noticed an AK in the corner while looking for the SOB, you are about to lose possession of it, and probably your cash and freedom as well.

TR

sinjefe
04-22-2013, 11:11
I figure if a cop asks if he can search my car or house, the answer will always be "no". If asked why, the answer is "because of the 4th amendment". If he has probable cause to enter, he won't need to ask.

Dozer523
04-22-2013, 22:04
Then, what were they afraid of?

Coulrophobia, maybe?

Richard
04-22-2013, 22:06
Coulrophopia, maybe?

Hunh?

Richard :munchin

MR2
04-23-2013, 00:02
Coulrophopia, maybe?

Coulrophobia - excellent!

Dozer523
04-23-2013, 01:01
Coulrophobia - excellent!
See? Be quiet, Richard.
Nee ner nee ner nee ner. :D