View Full Version : Split Thread: CS Powder and SOG
We need to Get am AM to tell some of his CS powder stories on here, That is truly some nasty shit.
Sacamuelas
11-04-2004, 21:44
We need to Get am AM to tell some of his CS powder stories on here, That is truly some nasty shit.
I 2nd that motion. :munchin
The Reaper
11-04-2004, 21:52
I 2nd that motion. :munchin
In order to prevent the hijack in progress, maybe you should start a new thread titled "101 Bad Things to do with Powdered CS Tear Gas".
TR
Roguish Lawyer
11-10-2004, 07:27
Well?
:munchin
Well if this the place I have a couple of CS stories. I loved the stuff. You could always tell when the dogs got it up the nose - went ballistic and I smiled :D
One problem with it was how fine the powder was. I usually carried a canteen full of it with a C4 and a short time fuze taped to the back. But I punched a small hole in the top and taped it over with layers of black tape. This was for pouring it out on the trail for the aforementioned dogs.
One mission I was setting on the pad and the Kingbees were doing something so we weren't loading right away but the rotors were turning. Just about the time we get into the choppers everyone came down with the running nose and red eyes. Somehow the vacuum sucked that stuff right through about 4 layers of black tape and was gassing us and the crews... none of which was humored at the time.
Changed methodolgy later to small insect repellent bottle for dogs and canteen tightly sealed (no holes) for the boom version...
Folks: I hate to be a wet rag, but this subject falls right into the crux of the allegations against us in "The Tailwind" controversy. It is best droped, at least on an open forum. :(
I thought the Tailwind controversy was more about using nerve gas and actively hunting down traitors. :confused:
I thought the Tailwind controversy was more about using nerve gas and actively hunting down traitors. :confused:
I think you will find it broader than that. To some, a chemical agent is a chemical agent with no differentiation between agents. Among other things we were accused of contaminating water and food supplies with chemical agents. Personally I just don't think this is a bone we want to dig up. I have lots of stories which I'll take to the grave.
OK. I went back and reviewed the actual allegations and will stand corrected. Soooo.....
1. We had CS in grenade form, similar to smoke grenades. I placed one in front of a claymore and it spread the CS when detonated. a great means of breaking contact. I did the same thing when initiating ambushes, as well as another claymore with a WP grenade in front of the claymore. The combination of the claymores, CS and WP along with heavy auto fire made for a quick violent ambush and afforded us a good chance of breaking contact.
2. At Khe Sahn we had CS cannister launchers in a line behind the claymores. Each unit could fire a salvo of 20 cannisters.
3. I never ran across pooches but was also prepared for that. Actually we were a little more primitive than BKK and used black and red pepper. :lifter
Ambush Master
11-15-2004, 21:20
We need to Get am AM to tell some of his CS powder stories on here, That is truly some nasty shit.
OK, after this thing got started and has deviated a bit, I find that I am left with a decision !!! CS or Napalm....CS or Napalm....CS or Napalm ?!?!?!
Ok, CS First !! (The creation of the "Porcupine" !!)
After very carefully drilling a hole in the standoff cone of a B-40 round, we then had to figure a way to get the CS Powder into it. We took the "drilled" rounds out to the bunker line and proceeded to fill them with CS powder, through a paper, homemade, funnel while wearing our "Mini-Masks". After the fill was completed, we taped the holes with Black "Electrical" tape and brought them back into the Team Room. The 4 Team building, housing a max of 12-16 Americans emptied !!! I, now with mask removed, but quite de-sensitised to the CS, didn't understand what all of the commotion was about. We ended up taking all of the rounds to the showers and giving them a bath !!! :D I then proceeded to turn them into Porcupines.
These things were bad. VERY BAD !!
Next, NAPE in the Air !!!
Later
Martin
Sacamuelas
11-15-2004, 21:56
Thanks AM. :munchin
Ambush Master
11-15-2004, 22:03
Jellied Petrol !!
After the success of the Porcupine, I latched onto the idea of a diabotical device that was based on something that we had received into our "weapons-options" mix !! We got a batch of "Quad-Laws" that were termed "Multiple-Flame Launchers". What these were, was an experimental 4 tube, expendable, Rocket Launcher, that was loaded with 4 Rockets that had an incindiary warhead instead of the AT !!! Picture a LAW on Steroids !! It was HUGE, boxy and a real pain in the ass to deploy.
I took this as a challenge. I looked at our existing inventory and decided to expand the capabilities of our most unique "Mortar" !! (Those that have read the 60mm Aw Shit in here will relate !!) I started with a 60mm Illumination round and succeeded in dismantling several. I then re-assembled them but instead of the flare and parachute, I put Foo-Gas, and added a little extra to the kicker/ignition charge that launched the flare.
I rigged up several and we went to the range. The first round that I launched, the rest of the team was AGAIN about 50 meters to the rear, went off in a quite spectacular fashion. When I hung it in the tube I did register that I smelled gasoline. I did not however think through the consequences of launching said round. When that thing went out, I was engulfed in, what I was told many many times over, a HUGE ORANGE FIREBALL !!!
I was left with quite a "sunburn", veeery little Eyebrows/ (no) eyelashes, and a very singed moustache !!!!
Once again, all of the Yards, rolling in the dirt, and crying NUMBA F****** ONE, DO IT AGAIN !!! :D
We did deploy this 60mm variant, after much improvement, and used it operationally to set fire to our backtrail. It worked better than WP !!!
Later
Martin
Let's see, back to the CS !!! Next, Cycalos and the "White Mice !!!" :munchin
I just got Plaster's book the Pictorial History of SOG. After seeing the picture of what you call an RT (looked more like a MF formation to me) and reading of your attempts at building weapons of mass ( self) destruction. Two things become clear to me.
1. You are one dangerous >>>
2. When you heard recon - you thought they said recon by fire (the fire being literal)
Roguish Lawyer
11-16-2004, 11:56
Great stories! Keep 'em coming, AM! :munchin
The Reaper
11-18-2004, 12:34
AM:
I am amazed that you have survived this long.
Do you attend church regularly, or are you just permanently lucky? :D
TR
Kyobanim
11-18-2004, 19:09
AM, that was the funniest thing I've read since the 60mm story.
You need to change your name to NUMBA F****** ONE, DO IT AGAIN
Ambush Master
11-18-2004, 19:31
Let's see, back to the CS !!! Next, Cycalos and the "White Mice !!!" :munchin
OK, first a definition: "White Mice" (WM) the Viet equivalent of our MPs. They picked up the handle because of the white helmet liners, spats and gloves that they wore, coupled with the fact that they could not really bother us any more than a mouse could.
Set the scenario: There were about 5-6 of us Recon types down in Nha Trang on stand-down. A few of us decided to not check in at the transient barracks (that way no-one would be looking for us if anything happened in the compound) and we went into town just before the gates got locked down. We had been having a pretty good party when somewhere around midnight the WM raided the establishment that we were in !!
We had them out-gunned, but we decided it would be much more simple to just E&E them. We escaped over a blind wall (not accessable from the streets) and made our way over the rooftops to a sidestreet that was not covered by the WM. There,we hailed a Cycalo (a three wheeled motorized version of a rickshaw) and made good our escape. We made it about 200m from the "bust" and were spotted !!! The chase was on !!
With about 3-4 Jeeps in hot pursuit, we hauled ass. Things were starting to look pretty grim and I knew that if this kept up for very much longer, the US MPs would join in and then it would be a very long and unplesant night. I remembered that I had my Insect Repellent Bottle with CS Powder in it and one of the others had their's too !!! :D We took the lids off, stuck them out and to the rear of the cab and layed down a cloud of CS !!!!!
The Jeeps started swerving from side to side and finally all of them crashed into the buildings on both sides of the road !! We made good our escape and retired to another establishment that welcomed our money and good charm !!
Remember, WAR when viewed backwards stands for Recon Always Wins !! :D
We fought hard, but partied HARDER !!!
Later
Martin
NousDefionsDoc
11-18-2004, 19:44
I started with a 60mm Illumination round and succeeded in dismantling several.
"succeeded" LOL. ROTFLMAO!
Great stories Brother!
NousDefionsDoc
11-18-2004, 19:47
NUMBA F****** ONE, DO IT AGAIN !!!
I'm crying here! My side hurts.
Achilles
11-18-2004, 19:48
The Jeeps started swerving from side to side and finally all of them crashed into the buildings on both sides of the road !! We made good our escape and retired to another establishment that welcomed our money and good charm !!
Remember, WAR when viewed backwards stands for Recon Always Wins !! :D
LOL!! That has to be the funniest Vietnam story I've ever heard. If only you could get away with doing that shit today!! Keep 'em coming AM!!
NousDefionsDoc
11-18-2004, 19:54
Oh similar things still go on today. When the statute of limitations runs out, I'll tell some Palmerola escape stories.
Ambush Master
11-18-2004, 20:13
"succeeded" LOL. ROTFLMAO!
You don't understand how difficlult it was to separate those little suckers without SETTING OFF THE FLARE !!! I made a "dummy" fuse head and saved the removed ones to use later, upon reassembly, to initiate the discharge of the Foogas. The dummy was drilled to accept timefuse and I would install it after the "live Fuse" was removed and then with a very small charge of powder would "kick" the flare out. Worked quite well !! :D
The real trick was how I figured out how to KEEP the Fookin gas fumes INSIDE so as to not partially incinerate the gunner !!!
Later
Martin
Martin,
You have a career in literature ahead of you.
Good stuff. :lifter
Keep them coming. :munchin
Right after Tet '68 I had to go to the SFOB on business. When we checked in we were told to check our weapons. We asked what to do in the event of a ground attack and were told to just go to the bunkers and the permanent party garrison would take care of things. RIGHT!! We spent the night in the Nha Trang Hotel and had a pretty good view of the light show over and around the SFOB from the roof. There was a little bar set up on the roof and we could enjoy Ba Mui Ba while watching the war! We figured we were safer there than in the SFOB. This picture is from the roof and may show AM's roof tops. :D
As for getting away with things, as long as you were willing to beat the bush, those who weren't willing would let you alone.
Ambush Master
04-24-2015, 21:59
The "Porcupines" are in the April edition of American Rifleman!!
Subscribed for learning purposes.:lifter
Yeah just ask Martin what NOT to do, I figured he has that POI well covered through personal experience
One thing that CISCO (our 007 supply guys) did was come up with a mini mask that worked just for CS/CN gas but not for any biohaz stuff. Lots lighter and easier to carry and don in a hurry.
Last mission I ran with RT Kansas we were sitting in the middle of a NVA trail watch station and ambushed the guys that came looking for us. We decided the best option was to exfil back down the trail to the LZ and scarf up a prisoner or two on the way out.
So Gary Swartzbaugh and I used our sawed off M79s to fire CS rounds ahead of us as we went down the trail (team was wearing masks). Apparently one of the NVA was wounded and alive under the foliage (kind of like big water lily leaves that were about 2 ft off the ground and covered the area under the trees). The team fired on instinct at the movement and it was scratch on possible POW.
We did get another POW further down the hill so it wasn't a total loss but he died in the hospital about 45 min after our return so we didn't get the 30 day leave and $100 reward.
But CS works really well in those cases (suspected ambush sites) if you have the 40mm CS rounds.
Ambush Master
04-26-2015, 16:08
One thing that CISCO (our 007 supply guys) did was come up with a mini mask that worked just for CS/CN gas but not for any biohaz stuff. Lots lighter and easier to carry and don in a hurry.
Those were the same "Mini-Masks" that we Ran With!!
I spent 16 months on a border camp with Cambodia on 2 sides couple Ks away.
We always had operations out trying to catch Charlie infiltrating stuff across the border.
I got to know the AO pretty well as we always had to commo guys on the team and I could go on all the missions I wanted.
Anyways-sometimes we'd see explosions in the air along the border. These were the AF dropping drumsof CS crystals and them exploding above ground dusting the area.
It was thick canopy and vegitation, so don't know how effective that was.
Sometimes we would be in that area, often looking for water.
The CIDG would suddenly start coughing and running around in circles. Frantically banging into each other and tripping over themselves.
Usually nearby was an unexploded drum of CS that had busted open and left a carpet of the crystals that activated when crunched.
It affected the little guys much more than us Americans, but it really got your attention.
Some welcome comedy relief.
Also, along the border, leaflets had accumulated over the years-lots and lots of them.
I was always afraid we would lose and they would make us pick them up.
We always had operations out trying to catch Charlie infiltrating stuff across the border.
I got to know the AO pretty well as we always had to commo guys on the team and I could go on all the missions I wanted.
Anyways-sometimes we'd see explosions in the air along the border. These were the AF dropping drumsof CS crystals and them exploding above ground dusting the area.
It was thick canopy and vegitation, so don't know how effective that was.
Usually nearby was an unexploded drum of CS that had busted open and left a carpet of the crystals that activated when crunched.
We walked into more than one "forgotten" CS drop.. :D
We did likewise, but threw in NP to burn a hole in the canopy.
Some pics of a "bombing run" NNE of Nui Ba Dinh, along the Cam border. We had them rigged under a Chinook and lit them with smoke grenades.
Not sure how effective it was. If we hit a good trail, they would just move to the left or right 1K the next night.
Hmmmm ...
08-1980.
Wonder if it's still good? :p
Maybe the next SF picnic we'll find out.
NurseTim
08-16-2015, 22:50
Hmmmm ...
08-1980.
Wonder if it's still good? :p
Maybe the next SF picnic we'll find out.
How about trying it out at the code pink or blm picnic? :D
Hmmmm ...
08-1980.
Wonder if it's still good? :p
Maybe the next SF picnic we'll find out.
I don't think there is a shelf life on CS?? Some of the shiite we used had roman numerals carved in the clay amphorae.. :D
Bettendorf
08-30-2015, 14:50
For some strange reason, I collect CS/CN/OC chemical agents.
If anyone has any stuff and is willing to sell, hit me up.
Loved the stories, by the way. Keep 'em coming.
I'd like to sneak in a question if I may, Golf1Echo was here for a visit a few days ago and we were talking about our Basic Training experiences. At Ft. Polk, in 1967, the gas chamber was 3 rooms: CN (or CS), Chlorine, and DM (vomiting gas). The tear gas to let you know it was "real" and the mask worked, chlorine to let you know it was lethal, and DM to teach you how to help someone affected. G1E never heard of that training. I'm sure several here went through it so does anyone know when it was phased out and why?
Pat
Pat,,
Spring of 68, Basic, Ft Jackson,, and fall/spring, 68-69 OCS, Ft Benning,, best recollection is CS only?
Summer 68, AIT-13E, Ft Sill,, to hot, beer garden every day at 1600..
We had classes but no "hands on" training of other "gases"??
:munchin
Pat,,
Spring of 68, Basic, Ft Jackson,, and fall/spring, 68-69 OCS, Ft Benning,, best recollection is CS only?
Summer 68, AIT-13E, Ft Sill,, to hot, beer garden every day at 1600..
We had classes but no "hands on" training of other "gases"??
:munchin
So, I was in the Last Hard Gas Class? :D
Pat
NurseTim
08-31-2015, 21:56
They exposed you to chlorine gas? I thought that was super deadly. I made it by accident and gave my poor mother a coronary.
They exposed you to chlorine gas? I thought that was super deadly. I made it by accident and gave my poor mother a coronary.
Exposed, yes. We didn't breath it. We broke the seal then cleared and resealed it. The worst part, after the fact, was the lingering smell of "apple blossoms" from the tear gas and bleach smell from the chlorine. Oh, and the vomit smell from the guys who hit their pants or boots in the DM room. Dinner chow SUCKED! :eek:
Pat
Golf1echo
09-07-2015, 20:56
Exposed, yes. We didn't breath it. We broke the seal then cleared and resealed it. The worst part, after the fact, was the lingering smell of "apple blossoms" from the tear gas and bleach smell from the chlorine. Oh, and the vomit smell from the guys who hit their pants or boots in the DM room. Dinner chow SUCKED! :eek:
Pat
You were reliving that experience there for several days ;) Pat it was great to meet you all and thank you for the hospitality! Beautiful country, I miss it.
You were reliving that experience there for several days ;)
Not really. We were in the WW2 Barracks (like the FMJ pic below) and had to strip the wax off the floors, re-dye, wax, and buff them every night. To do that we had to move the bunks and wall lockers into the central part and do the bunk area first, wait for the dye to dry then paste wax them with Johnson's wax, let it dry, then buff. Then we moved the bunks and wall lockers back, placed them on wood blocks, and did the same to the central area. While waiting for the dye and wax to dry, we would hang out in the latrine. That gave us plenty of time to wash our fatigues and shower. Downside was that we got very little sleep. I would always volunteer for first or second Fire Guard shift because we were all still awake then. ;)
I'm glad you were able to make it out to visit.
Pat
I remembr the multi-gas chamber at Ft Polk in 1966.
They said it was Chlorine.
I remembr the multi-gas chamber at Ft Polk in 1966.
They said it was Chlorine.
Did you have three rooms, with the DM gas in the last one? That was the most memorable. :eek:
Pat