View Full Version : how to fix a "low shooter?"
Okay I need some technical training help.
While I know the fundamentals of shooting a handgun and I think I do very well at teaching safe gun handling, the fundamentals of shooting and basic marksmanship, I have been having a hellva time trying to help my wife with a very particular issue. She consistently shoots low, real low. When she squeezes the trigger, she nose-dives the gun. I can watch her do it but not real sure of how to tell her to NOT do it. She is not flinching or “anticipating” the shot, it is more like it is just the way her hand works. When she squeezes the trigger, her thumb pushes forward and her wrist rotates down. She gets very frustrated and upset with herself as she know what she is doing but can’t seem to overcome it. For the record, she has had wrist problems (carpal tunnel and arthritis like issues) Also this happens with every handgun she shoots: pistol, revolver, 9MM, .45, .38, .380. What really sets her off is I can take the same gun out of her hand and hits bulls, so I am sure it’s not the gun. By the way when she shoots rifle, this is not an issue as her hand is in a different angle and it does not “move” the same way.
So has anyone experienced this phenomenon before and what can I do about it?
I have the same issues with people at work sometimes. This has helped: symptom chart (http://www.pointmanspage.com/gallery/v/gunsngear/ShootingMisc/handgun_shooting_symptom_chart.jpeg.html)
She may be too relaxed. Try telling her to apply more tension to her wrist during grip.
Old Dog New Trick
04-14-2013, 00:32
How's she do on dry firing?
Still breaking down at or near complete trigger pull?
Ball and dummy drills are in order...
Sounds like with other medical issues noted, she is going to have to train her muscles to hold steady, pull straight, and follow through.
Dry fire repitition and then add bullets...if it is anticipation you will note that with B&D drills.
She could be over gripping and squeezing with fingers low on grip just prior to discharge, get her to relax. Or at least relax the ring and pinky finger and see what happens.
Could be the gun (ergonomics), but you mention many, so probably not. I shot the M9 low, but had no problems with 1911s or SiGs, etc...
Ball and dummy drills are in order...
Dry fire repitition and then add bullets...if it is anticipation you will note that with B&D drills.
Mine had the same problem, and these two methods were the solution.
RichL025
04-14-2013, 07:35
How's she do on dry firing?
Still breaking down at or near complete trigger pull?
Ball and dummy drills are in order...
Sounds like with other medical issues noted, she is going to have to train her muscles to hold steady, pull straight, and follow through.
Dry fire repitition and then add bullets...if it is anticipation you will note that with B&D drills.
She could be over gripping and squeezing with fingers low on grip just prior to discharge, get her to relax. Or at least relax the ring and pinky finger and see what happens.
Could be the gun (ergonomics), but you mention many, so probably not. I shot the M9 low, but had no problems with 1911s or SiGs, etc...
In addition to Ball & Dummy drills, snap-caps work well to both identify if trigger anticipation is the problem, and to help start correcting it. WHen I go to a static range I still mix a few in with one or two of my mags (because trigger jerk is still a problem _I_ have to some extent)
RL
CDRODA396
04-14-2013, 07:40
Just like mentioned above, the two proven techniques to stop anticipation/nose diving are dry fire, followed by ball and dummy drills. Once she overcomes the issue, continuing to dry fire once or twice a week for a few minutes for maintenance is always a good plan. Of course, constantly reinforcing dry fire with NO ammo in the same room.
Easy fix.
Balance a dime on the front sight. Dry fire the weapon and the dime should not fall off. You'd be surprised at how many people actually anticipate and break their wrist. Just make sure she pulls the trigger slowly, it should surprise her when the weapon goes off. She shouldn't pull the trigger back sharply.
Once she gets that down pat make sure she knows to do the same thing wile firing. After a while it will become muscle memory and she will get faster/smoother at pulling the trigger without breaking her wrist.
By the way people do the same thing with cameras. Watch them, they stab the shutter release which of course causes the camera to move thus creating blurred images. They should push it slowly. This is the reason many professional portrait photographers use cabless to press their shutter release. On older cameras they would also lock the mirror up just so it would not create motion by flipping up an down.
Easy fix.
Balance a dime on the front sight. Dry fire the weapon and the dime should not fall off. You'd be surprised at how many people actually anticipate and break their wrist. Just make sure she pulls the trigger slowly, it should surprise her when the weapon goes off. She shouldn't pull the trigger back sharply.
Once she gets that down pat make sure she knows to do the same thing wile firing. After a while it will become muscle memory and she will get faster/smoother at pulling the trigger without breaking her wrist.
By the way people do the same thing with cameras. Watch them, they stab the shutter release which of course causes the camera to move thus creating blurred images. They should push it slowly. This is the reason many professional portrait photographers use cable releases to press he shutter. On older cameras the would also lock the mirror up just so it would not create motion by flipping up an down.
True stuff.
frostfire
04-14-2013, 21:48
...bucking
Was training/sharing knowledge w/ a 38A with the same recurrent problem. All good tips already given, so if i may add some more:
- After solid dry fire drill, if error occurs during b&d, do 10X remedial perfect dry fire, then try b&d again
- Sometimes it helps to quiet the subconscious anticipating influence by mental commands. So instead of "it's gonna blow, it's gonna blow, it's gonna kick, im gonna screw this one up and get embarassed"........JERK/BUCk/FLINCH/HEEL, make her say verbally or in the mind "front sight-front sight-squeeze" or "slow-steady-squeeze"
- If the gun has flat top, put an empty pistol casing and dry fire. Too easy? Put 5.56 case. Still good? Put the rifle casing upside down
- To check for perfect fundamentals, attach flashlight to the rail if there's one. I prefer light to laser as laser tends to draw the focus away from sight alignment. Turn off the room light, start with forearm resting on table, thus isolating just grip & trigger finger. Establish and accept wobble zone (hold). Before, during, and after "click", there should not be sudden movement of the beam circle on the wall. The coach can watch for that sudden movement as well any twitch/blink in the shooter's eye, which is a predictor of flinchng. The shooter can watch for herself too as the peripheral vision will pick sudden movement even ith eyes focused on the front sight
- Practice solid follow through. Keep all fundamentals for 1 to two seconds after click or bang. Squeeze-click-one-thousand one-release trigger to reset.
- or even nerdier, isolate index finger from the other ones. Jut grip using thumb and index and observe/strive for straight squeeze to rear. Then with just thumb, index and middle. Then with full grip again. This is more to figure out placement of trigger and correcting horizontal spread though.
Give them a shot. They have worked for myself, the 38A, other SOF guys I share knowledge with, and random folks who asked me for tips at mckellar
Team Sergeant
04-15-2013, 10:48
It's called a "controlled jerk" (I made that up;)) unless you know what you're looking for you will not see it (unless it's very pronounced). Also when I teach I stand out front (front left side) to spot this problem.
Five bucks says she's dipping/breaking her wrists at the moment of firing in anticipation of the recoil. Pointing out what is going on and then doing a lot of ball and dummy is the only answer. Also most people become very tired after 20-30 minutes of shooting and then all sorts of issues arise. The only people that can shoot with great focus past thirty minutes are people in great shape. Keep that in mind.
Occam's razor.
Tell her to aim higher.
nousdefions
04-15-2013, 11:09
I've discovered that this is a common trait among female shooters.......
Thanks for the input!
I will discuss with HH6 tonight and we will try some washer/dime drills.
Badger52
04-15-2013, 13:03
Concur B&D and some dry-fire in order. I agree you can't really see this from behind; coach from the side or a bit forward. One other thing in method of explanation is to consider that sometimes ladies process information differently. Thinking of TS' "controlled jerk" the words:
"Align the sights, and pull/press the trigger" imply 2 distinct things - the first breaks down as soon as focus shifts to the 2nd thing. This is the "average" coaching given by husband/boyfriend/father.
"While keeping the sights aligned, press the trigger" implies one must always be happening as the other is. If they're aligned when the break comes good things happen. I also explain why I use those words and have seen some light bulbs come on.
Mine had the same problem, and these two methods were the solution.
Same here --- except that's how I cured MYSELF. :o
Concur B&D and some dry-fire in order. I agree you can't really see this from behind; coach from the side or a bit forward. One other thing in method of explanation is to consider that sometimes ladies process information differently. Thinking of TS' "controlled jerk" the words:
"Align the sights, and pull/press the trigger" imply 2 distinct things - the first breaks down as soon as focus shifts to the 2nd thing. This is the "average" coaching given by husband/boyfriend/father.
"While keeping the sights aligned, press the trigger" implies one must always be happening as the other is. If they're aligned when the break comes good things happen. I also explain why I use those words and have seen some light bulbs come on.
So are you saying that smacking her on the back of the head and making her do push-ups aint helping?
So are you saying that smacking her on the back of the head and making her do push-ups aint helping?
Helping you, yes. :D Helping her shoot, no. :D Motivating her to shoot you, yes.:munchin