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View Full Version : Proposed Legislation Supports Transition of Veterans to Civilian EMS


Dragbag036
04-05-2013, 13:07
“Our military men and women receive some of the best technical training in emergency medicine—and they prove their skills on the battlefield every day,” Capps says in a prepared statement. “When they return home, however, experienced military medics are often required to begin their training completely over at the most basic level to receive certification for civilian jobs. This unnecessarily keeps our veterans out of the workforce and withholds valuable medical personnel from our communities.”

http://www.jems.com/article/news/proposed-legislation-supports-transition

DC has had a rash of incidents in which response times have failed, even for its LEO's. One of the proposals has been to look into servicemen/women for transition to civilian life. I'm not sure if they realize the cost as well. Most EMS don't make tons of money, and it has strange hours. I worked Moore County for a couple of years and unless you pulled a lot of overtime or received one of there newer positions for a 12 hour truck, most had second jobs. And most of those folks were overweight and unhappy.

Sdiver
04-05-2013, 13:19
DC has had a rash of incidents in which response times have failed, even for its LEO's. One of the proposals has been to look into servicemen/women for transition to civilian life. I'm not sure if they realize the cost as well. Most EMS don't make tons of money, and it has strange hours. I worked Moore County for a couple of years and unless you pulled a lot of overtime or received one of there newer positions for a 12 hour truck, most had second jobs. And most of those folks were overweight and unhappy.

"I got into EMS for the money", said no EMT or Paramedic EVER !!!!

It is a shame that these guys and gals have to start from "scratch" just to get a job much less "certified". I've met a couple of Army medics who could run "circles" around tenured Paramedics. They've seen more and done more than many of those overweight and unhappy Medics/Basics that you mention.

Dragbag036
04-05-2013, 16:19
"I got into EMS for the money", said no EMT or Paramedic EVER !!!!

It is a shame that these guys and gals have to start from "scratch" just to get a job much less "certified". I've met a couple of Army medics who could run "circles" around tenured Paramedics. They've seen more and done more than many of those overweight and unhappy Medics/Basics that you mention.

I completely understand, and maybe I should do a better explanation of what I was thinking. The majority of military folks that would get out, or would be forced out, still make a better living than some of these good Americans.

And I agree with what you said about their abilities. The next thing will be PTSD, and most of these new jobs will be in the "High Crime Areas". Then there are medical protocols that will need to be followed, even if the individual could save the life based on past experience.

Surgicalcric
04-06-2013, 00:22
Prior to this past deployment (sigh) I had given thought to going back to the fire department and even went so far as to update my Registry Paramedic cert, which I had allowed to lapse because it really wasnt good for anything, but I realized how unhappy I would be following Standing Orders which werent designed to save lives as much as protect the Medical Control MD. Even flying life flight, which I had done previously, didnt appeal to me any longer.

Best of luck to anyone getting into EMS, it is definitely not a job for those looking for a high paying job but one where there can be job satisfaction for regular line medics who come into it not thinking they know everything because they have been to combat - this will be the most demanding part of coming into EMS as a 68W/Corpsmen. And while they, like you Sdiver may believe they shouldnt start at the bottom they are far from experienced when it comes to the vast majority of illness/injuries that make up the vast majority of EMS runs in the civilian rhelm. They will have to lean heavily on their work ethic and desire to help others but it will pay off in the long run if they can see it through to the end.

Thats the .02 from my perspective.

Crip

Sdiver
04-06-2013, 01:22
.... And while they, like you Sdiver may believe they shouldnt start at the bottom they are far from experienced when it comes to the vast majority of illness/injuries that make up the vast majority of EMS runs in the civilian rhelm. They will have to lean heavily on their work ethic and desire to help others but it will pay off in the long run if they can see it through to the end.

Thats the .02 from my perspective.

Crip

J,
I get what you're saying and I realized I should have made myself a little more clearer on the subject.

While these medics/corpsmen coming out of theater and ETSing then looking at getting into the civilian EMS realm, have to start from "scratch" by having to go through EMT/B class and then take the National Registry, just to be able to get on with a company or dept.

Sure they've seen and done things in their medical career while on AD that those in the civilian side have never, nor will ever see, while those on the civvie side see things and repeatedly do (The 3am stubbed toe, because I stepped on a Goddamnfuckingmotherfucking Lego call), that these folks haven't seen or done.

What I meant to say was, it's a shame that they have to go through Basic class just to get on with a company or dept. and start out at the bottom of the pay scale, just because they're a "New Basic. Fresh out of school". I know that when I was with AMR here in town, we had a couple of guys come in, at separate times, who were combat medics, with a couple tours each (Iraq and A-stan) under their belts, but started out at the beginning end of the pay scale, just because they were newly certified Basics. I would think that they would at least start out a little bit higher up on the pay scale due to experience alone. But nope, company policy states, you're new to the company, or a new Basic, you start out at minimum wage.

It's too bad that there isn't a program in place, where these guys/gals coming out of the military can "challenge" the National Registry test(s), either Basic, Advanced, or Medic, and have their time in experience count for them when it comes time for hire. So I hope that something comes from that Bill being proposed in the article that Dragbag posted above.

I'm glad to see/hear that you kept/are keeping you Registry cert up to date. Like you said, it really isn't good for anything for you right now, but it is nice having it "just in case", and also if you did let it lapse for an extended period you don't have to go through possibly having to take the class(es) over again.

Firelord
04-06-2013, 03:45
I spent 21 years with the Fire Department and retired 10 years ago. The largest difference I saw with Medics with military experience was that:

1. They seemed to have a clearer head and a better decision making capability when in high stress situations.

2. They were better at imrpovising in the field.

3. They also seemed to have a better command presence on a scene, regardless of their position/rank.

I allowed my EMT license to lapse when I retired and haven't kept up with licensing requirements, but I beleive that here in Florida, a Medic from the Military is allowed to challenge the state test to obtain certification. At least I remember talk of that at the turn of the century.

Just my 2 cents from my small corner.

medic&commo
04-06-2013, 08:49
Prior to this past deployment (sigh) I had given thought to going back to the fire department and even went so far as to update my Registry Paramedic cert, which I had allowed to lapse because it really wasnt good for anything, but I realized how unhappy I would be following Standing Orders which werent designed to save lives as much as protect the Medical Control MD. Even flying life flight, which I had done previously, didnt appeal to me any longer.
...

Crip

Sad, when I in they were screaming to get any recognition (official or otherwise) from government.
Now we have it, plus real-world experience and our hands are tied by protocol.
m&c

Dragbag036
04-06-2013, 11:49
J,
I get what you're saying and I realized I should have made myself a little more clearer on the subject.

While these medics/corpsmen coming out of theater and ETSing then looking at getting into the civilian EMS realm, have to start from "scratch" by having to go through EMT/B class and then take the National Registry, just to be able to get on with a company or dept.

Sure they've seen and done things in their medical career while on AD that those in the civilian side have never, nor will ever see, while those on the civvie side see things and repeatedly do (The 3am stubbed toe, because I stepped on a Goddamnfuckingmotherfucking Lego call), that these folks haven't seen or done.

What I meant to say was, it's a shame that they have to go through Basic class just to get on with a company or dept. and start out at the bottom of the pay scale, just because they're a "New Basic. Fresh out of school". I know that when I was with AMR here in town, we had a couple of guys come in, at separate times, who were combat medics, with a couple tours each (Iraq and A-stan) under their belts, but started out at the beginning end of the pay scale, just because they were newly certified Basics. I would think that they would at least start out a little bit higher up on the pay scale due to experience alone. But nope, company policy states, you're new to the company, or a new Basic, you start out at minimum wage.

It's too bad that there isn't a program in place, where these guys/gals coming out of the military can "challenge" the National Registry test(s), either Basic, Advanced, or Medic, and have their time in experience count for them when it comes time for hire. So I hope that something comes from that Bill being proposed in the article that Dragbag posted above.

I'm glad to see/hear that you kept/are keeping you Registry cert up to date. Like you said, it really isn't good for anything for you right now, but it is nice having it "just in case", and also if you did let it lapse for an extended period you don't have to go through possibly having to take the class(es) over again.

The Army is doing a better job, if I am correct, most have always had at least an EMT-B. Now they are proposing that flight medics have EMT-P. There are also a few reciprocity states as well as bridge courses out there, but are very fast paced and hard to get. SOF however has Georgia and a bridge course if you have your ATP.

The problem with these civilian EMS, is like some of you have stated before, "you're new", so start at the bottom of your pay scale B, I, P, etc...Not only that , until the new Registry is complete, many states have their own certification regardless if you are NREMT, which is becoming a true national Certification
https://www.nremt.org/nremt/downloads/Newsletter_EMTP_FINAL.pdf.I had to become certified through the State of NC before working in Moore County.

I agree with proving yourself to Medical Director, how many folks have the training, but not the true skills to accomplish the task. But its no different than PA

"1961 to 1970
The PA concept is introduced to organized medicine and the general public to combat a shortage of doctors and clinical support personnel. The first formal educational programs for physician assistants and nurse practitioners are established in the United States. Former military corpsmen are the primary source of students for both PA and MEDEX programs. Physician assistant graduates and students form national professional organizations to address their collective concerns. Federal funding becomes available for PA educational programs. The first organization is established to register PAs and assure employers and the public of their competence. The American Medical Association begins to explore accreditation and certification standards for PA and MEDEX graduates. This and the next decade are a time of profound change and experiment in health care in the United States."

http://www.pahx.org/period02.html