View Full Version : SF too Critical
BMT (RIP)
11-03-2004, 16:32
http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20041102-073518-4202r.htm
BMT
NousDefionsDoc
11-03-2004, 17:28
Really good article BMT. Thanks.
Fortunately, we no longer need to worry too much about what Kerry would do as President.
Actually, Special Forces was barely mentioned except for the headline.
I tend to disagree with the following statement:
History shows that even when the military opens up more SOF opportunities, only a limited number of men can actually qualify.
In a very short span of time (2-3 years) SF went from 2 AD Groups to 7. At times in the late sixties and early seventies there were thousands in training in SFTG. These men performed admirably in S.E.A. as well as Europe, Africa and Latin America. Many of these soldiers were "one term" soldiers and did their jobs in a professional manner.
The key is in selection. There are millions of good candidates out there. We just need to indentify, select and train them.
I sometimes wonder at the wannabe hunt attitude of some. Are we that rare? Try to calculate the total men who served in the AD SF Groups in the first 50 years. You may find the number mind boggling and it will still be conservative.
"In a very short span of time (2-3 years) SF went from 2 AD Groups to 7."
That's mind boggling. I don't want to reply with too much info on a public forum about this subject. Suffice to say that we will not have to "double SF" anytime in the next 4 years. It takes time to build skills and units in order for them to be special.
No slight intended on past warriors as they were my heroes and mentors.
longrange1947
11-03-2004, 18:20
And which of the three always active Groups have you left out? :munchin
Hint - 5th, 7th or 10th?
And which of the three always active Groups have you left out? :munchin
Hint - 5th, 7th or 10th?
I believe that: "In the beginning there was the 77th (7th) and 10th. God saw they were good and made the 5th."
:)
longrange1947
11-03-2004, 18:38
Actually I thought (or assume and you know what that means) you were talking recent history. You are correct. There was the 10th which left 77th Company behind when they deployed to Germany. That Company formed 7th Group. HOWEVER, 1st was formed and parts of the 7th and 1st formed the 5th. :lifter
Hmmmm!! Rick. It looks like we may have crossed paths in Thailand. :)
I recently learned that I was also a member of the 1st.. Even though the 46th company was sent over from a company of the 7th they were really CoD, 1st SFGA. :confused:
The Reaper
11-03-2004, 20:58
"In a very short span of time (2-3 years) SF went from 2 AD Groups to 7."
That's mind boggling. I don't want to reply with too much info on a public forum about this subject. Suffice to say that we will not have to "double SF" anytime in the next 4 years. It takes time to build skills and units in order for them to be special.
No slight intended on past warriors as they were my heroes and mentors.
Concur, Doc.
We had a much larger Army back then, and different standards.
I believe that a lot of the selection then was done in combat.
TR
longrange1947
11-03-2004, 22:22
Correct on that one. But 46th wasn't really absorbed until later. There was a difference in the two for a bit. 7th sent a company to Oki and Thailand. One company satyed a company + (46th) and the other went plumb crazy as 1st SAFAsia.
Did a couple of trips to 46th from 1st. last one was in the closing years of 72-73.
Great memories! :D
magician
11-03-2004, 23:12
Damn, Rick.
I thought that I was old.
You are old.
You need to come back to the Magic Kingdom. Mekhong is on me, brother.
:)
I may have mis-stated my thoughts. The article in question actually only mentions USASF in tyhe headline and once, briefly in the article. We constantly fall into the trap of equating SOF and Special Forces. We are but a small nitch in the entire SOF community, about as prominent as the amount of space in the article.
If history has shown anything, it is that when a need arises it will be met. There are plenty of prospects in the world. I won't get into relative quality of yesterday and today. Special Forces have always performed in a "Special" way. Many of the men you see retiring today and/or in the past ten years are senior officers and NCO's who came up in the 60s and 70s. The primary focus of SF changed in Vietnam, and again during Vietnam switching emphasis from Counter-Insurgency to Direct Action (MACV SOG). Men adapted quickly and effeciently. Personally, I preferred the other side of the fence, guerilla operations, but quickly adapted to SOG operations.
Whenever there is a SPECIAL need for SPECIAL men to accomplish SPECIAL missions, the need will be met by SPECIAL men.
The proof is in the accomplishment of the mission. It is in the adaptability, flexibility and utilization of training, not in the training itself.
I joined USASF in 1963. The primary testing for selection was psychological. Perhaps graduation from BAC was a good indicator of physical ability. Things were different but the results were similar. We got the bulk of our specific training in the team. Each team had a nucleus of old experienced soldiers to mentor us babies. Upon graduation from SFTG we received a Green Beret and assignment to a Special Forces Group. The award of the "3" Special Forces Qualification came only after serving in a Group, passing various primary and cross-training tests and participarion in three or more major operations. At that time the team would make a recommendation which was passed up through channels and one could become Special Forces Qualified with the "3", qualifier.
Was that system better or worse? Probably not - just equally effective.
longrange1947
11-04-2004, 20:00
Started Tng group in 67. Remember the guy in the funny green hat coming by my Infantry AIT unit saying that I probably wasn't good enough for his unit. I could take these little tests and prove myself worthy of an interview by him the next day. Took the "little tests" and went to the interview. Man I showed him! Had orders to BAC and orders to this place at Bragg that I had read about but did not know jack about.
You are right, alot of phsych, "do you really want it" fun and games. Pancho not 6 inches, go to the back of the formation and your orders for the 82d repo depo are waiting for you. MacKall was one cadre op shed and we lived under a pancho hootch. Even now I can remember the fun of it all. Of course I was just shy of 21 and thought it was great good fun and manhood proving. :D
Magician - If I went back to Thailand my old lady of 34 years, yes she suffered my trips to the land of everything fun, would divorce my a** in a heart beat. That does not mean that I would love to play again. I remember when you had to look at the date of manufacture on the back label of the Mekhong to make sure it was still safe to drink. If the two week limit was expired the stuff would be rather bad. Can you spell enballming fluid? :eek: