View Full Version : Planned Parenthood Official Argues for Right to Post-Birth Abortion
I confess, I didn't even watch this. Watching my blood pressure.
Just when you think libs couldn't get any scumbaggier.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/video-planned-parenthood-official-argues-right-post-birth-abortion_712198.html
Trapper John
03-29-2013, 11:00
I confess, I didn't even watch this. Watching my blood pressure.
Just when you think libs couldn't get any scumbaggier.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/video-planned-parenthood-official-argues-right-post-birth-abortion_712198.html
Un-F'n believable :mad: This is an example of the slippery slope in it's extreme. Bro, you and I better watch our backs, 'cause they'll be coming after FOG's next - mandatory euthanasia for those leaches on our economy.
Just when I thought the debate couldn't get any more stupid!
I won't watch it. Absolutely disgusting. Don't forget that our president supported this in Illinois. In 2001, Illinois State Senator Patrick O'Malley discovered that a procedure was being performed at hospitals in Illinois where labor was induced on a mother for the purposes of an abortion. Children who survived this procedure were taken to another room and left unattended until passing. In response to this practice, he introduced three pieces of legislation dealing with born children:
•SB1093 said that if a doctor performing an abortion believed there was a likelihood the baby would survive, another physician must be present "to assess the child's viability and provide medical care".
•SB1094 gave the parents, or a state-appointed guardian, the right to sue to protect the child's rights.
•SB1095 simply said a baby alive after "complete expulsion or extraction from its mother" would be considered a " 'person,' 'human being,' 'child' and 'individual' ".
The only member to oppose the legislation in committee and the only member to speak against them was State Senator Barack Obama.
I wonder at what point, if ever, these people will call it murder?
The history of the 'progressive' party is repleat with similar focus....in the 20's 30's the 'progressives' furthered the attitude that those who do not benefit society can be eliminated by society....the mentally ill, seriously handicapped etc....this stems from an atheistic attitude about lifes origins and worth.
Same attitude here.
longrange1947
03-29-2013, 12:49
Anyone that allows this to occur needs to go to jail, that would be ANY politician and voted for these types of measures. This is sickening. :mad:
Barbarian
03-29-2013, 13:11
That's frickin' depraved.
Red Flag 1
03-29-2013, 14:11
Our society, just seems to get sicker every day. The first post birth abortion should have been on the assclown that suggested it.
RF 1
TOMAHAWK9521
03-29-2013, 16:57
I have never understood why the "progressives" think of doing things like this are no big deal and a sign of a true civilized society, yet executing a murderer or rapist is the purest form of evil. I guess I'm just not enlightened enough to see the wisdom of their world. :mad:
I guess I'll remain the lowly caveman who lives by his words and deeds and calls evil when he sees it.
I have never understood why the "progressives" think of doing things like this are no big deal and a sign of a true civilized society, yet executing a murderer or rapist is the purest form of evil.
Then there's the one about the fat lib chick haranguing a guy for killing deer while she stuffs porterhouse chunks down her gullet.
They were programmed to be hypocritical by their parents and society.
College doesn't teach common sense. IMO, most people who prescribe to progressivism fall under the category of someone who lacks common sense but has been educated by a liberal institution.
Unfortunately, the people who have common sense know better but aren't the ones making decisions and this is why our country is going to shit (for lack if a better term)
The fact that we're having this conversation is proof.
ddoering
03-29-2013, 17:35
I wonder at what point, if ever, these people will call it murder?
Somewhere between Kindergarten and 1st grade and only if the person doing it is armed with an assault rifle and not a Doctor.
NurseTim
03-29-2013, 17:54
If it passes, barry bet keep his head on a swivel.
craigepo
03-29-2013, 18:38
This is no different from the child sacrifice that was proscribed in the Old Testament. At some point, our society is going to be held accountable for "abortion for convenience".
This is no different from the child sacrifice that was proscribed in the Old Testament. At some point, our society is going to be held accountable for "abortion for convenience".
I believe this
How does anyone involved in these procedures live with themselves?
How does anyone involved in these procedures live with themselves?
They have to, because their hated parents weren't kind enough to abort them.
Pat
Post-birth abortion -- merely another sign that liberal American society is on a mission to devour our nation's soul.
GratefulCitizen
03-29-2013, 21:51
This is no different from the child sacrifice that was proscribed in the Old Testament. At some point, our society is going to be held accountable for "abortion for convenience".
Unavoidable at this point.
Socialized medicine guarantees it.
Socialized medicine leads to rationing.
The inverted demographics with the aging boomers will lead to severe rationing based on the economic value of the patient.
We reap what we sow.
That liberals/progressives can't see the cognitive dissonance between advocating for post-birth abortions while moaning and wailing about the massacre of children in Newtown, leaves me speechless...
In my mind, in both instances, it is murder, plain and simple...
In the liberal's mind, the difference between the two is their indifference to post-birth abortion babies...
This is the sort of muddled nonsense spewed from the pie holes of the Left...
I am now a firm advocate of late-term abortions...I'm thinking in the 18-80 years old liberal/progressive demographic...
Dozer523
03-29-2013, 23:39
Post-birth abortion -- merely another sign that liberal American society is on a mission to devour our nation's soul.liberals and democrats, too. And don't forget Protestants. since only the Catholic Church has denounced abortion.
Do you get head-aches thinking this sort of crap?
liberals and democrats, too. And don't forget Protestants. since only the Catholic Church has denounced abortion.
Do you get head-aches thinking this sort of crap?
It doesn't take too much thought to connect the dots. The right to have an abortion is a priority for liberals and the Democrat party. It was a central theme in the faux "war on women". Don't forget, late term abortion was supported by the current leader of the Democrat party. As for Protestants, many, if not most mainline Protestant churches are on board with Roe v. Wade and government funding of Planned Parenthood. Let's see just how many Protestant denominations actually denounce these statements regarding late term and "post-birth abortions"...or as properly termed...murder.
What gives me head-aches is that there are people out there that believe this is OK and those that defend it.
Whats the age cutoff going to be...
...late term abortion sounds like a great alternative to political campaigning and government corruption.
Its hard to even take this kind of whack job social engineering seriously, but nothing seems that unbelievable anymore.
Here is a thought to ponder:
Years and years ago, when all abortions were "bad" and someone said "this is just the beginning. someday they will try to tell us its ok to abort them after they are born"
...does anyone doubt that there were folks who asked that question?
...does anyone doubt that even the 'pro-lifers' of that era probably told those radical jackass to knock it off with the theatrics, because "that shit will never happen in this country; there are too many checks and balances in place."
Sensitize a society to a certain level of tolerance and subsequent levels of behavior modification don't seem all that crazy. We went from Roe v. Wade in 1973 to having an actual legislative discussion about post-birth abortions in just 40 years. Who knows what will be considered "normal" 40 years from now?
Nothing to see here, move along.
When does the government get to start 'aborting' societies nutjobs whose "radical" ideas are a threat to a safe and stable society? Some people will just slip past the initial abortion screeners and the faults that qualify them for abortion wont manifest until they are a little older. As a result, we will have dangerous people in society tha SHOULD have been aborted. Hell, post birth abortions could have prevented Columbine and Sandy Hook if we had the right post-birth abortion control measures in place.
Government mandated post-birth abortion may sound draconian and inhuman, but we have to think of the children.
...ha, what I am I thinking; that shit could NEVER happen in this country; there are WAY too many checks and balances in place."
Don't be deceived: God is not mocked. For whatever a man/nation sows he will also reap.
liberals and democrats, too. And don't forget Protestants. since only the Catholic Church has denounced abortion.
Do you get head-aches thinking this sort of crap?
IMO, some on the left, provide simultaneous headache and heartache...as our nation's soul rots from the top down.
Post-birth abortion, Bengahzi, Fast and Furious, etc., etc., etc.,
Sitting here, saddened and sickened observing such nonsense and those who enable such behavior.
craigepo
03-30-2013, 05:32
liberals and democrats, too. And don't forget Protestants. since only the Catholic Church has denounced abortion.
Do you get head-aches thinking this sort of crap?
Incorrect.
liberals and democrats, too. And don't forget Protestants. since only the Catholic Church has denounced abortion.
Do you get head-aches thinking this sort of crap?
I'm not Catholic, and I've denounced abortion from the gitgo.
This incident is another sign of the increasing speed of America's slide into abject immorality.
I think we're either approaching the PONR, or have passed it.
I'm not Catholic, and I've denounced abortion from the gitgo.
This incident is another sign of the increasing speed of America's slide into abject immorality.
I think we're either approaching the PONR, or have passed it.
For the record, I'm not Roman Catholic either. I was raised in the Methodist church, which I gave up for Lent 25 years ago. Recently, I felt the need to go back to church to give my 5 year old some perspective. I visited no less than 10 churches, mostly Mainline Protestant denominations, and didn't recognize any of them. They were very political and in my opinion, leftist in nature.
Abortion was always a no-brainer for me. It's simply the murder of our most vulnerable. No excuses. The fact that this discussion is even happening shows me that we have indeed slid into the abyss as a society.
We have crossed the Rubicon.
liberals and democrats, too. And don't forget Protestants. since only the Catholic Church has denounced abortion.
Do you get head-aches thinking this sort of crap?
I guess his statement should have read " Protestant liberal and democrat American society......." a lot of us got the gist of tonyz's post.
tim180a "For the record, I'm not Roman Catholic either. I was raised in the Methodist church, which I gave up for Lent 25 years ago. Recently, I felt the need to go back to church to give my 5 year old some perspective. I visited no less than 10 churches, mostly Mainline Protestant denominations, and didn't recognize any of them. They were very political and in my opinion, leftist in nature. "
I too was raised Methodist they started going left back in the 80's and 90's good luck finding a church that you like but like you I have to wonder whatr happened to that good old time religion?
Dozer523
03-30-2013, 08:14
Here is an interesting map that describes the state by state restrictions on abortion.
I found the sliding bar a little difficult to use (I wanted to stop it at different points) You can also place your cursor on the individual states to see their specific law.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/28/the-landscape-of-abortion-bans-in-one-must-see-map/
Unavoidable at this point.
Socialized medicine guarantees it.
Really? The Federal Republic of Germany, for example, has a very advanced nationalized medical system, and they do not allow abortion (unless there is a life threatening underlying medical condition for either the mother or the fetus) and can prosecute their citizens even if they go abroad for an abortion in a country in which it is legal.
So exactly how does socialized medicine "guarantee" such programs? :confused:
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Congo336
03-30-2013, 09:09
Ultimately, in America, it seems that the only plank in the Progressive Liberal platform is hypocrisy. Abortion is OK, the death penalty for criminals isn't. Many other areas in the political arena also have both support and opposition from the same people based on the direction of the argument. Perhaps the real reason is the large number of useful educated idiots happy to follow rather than think and reason for themselves.
Perhaps I am simply spoiled having spent most of my adult life surrounded by SF Brothers. While we may not have agreed on all issues, nearly all could think and reason for themselves. :cool:
Dozer523
03-30-2013, 09:25
Please forgive me if I sometimes seem to get "all butt-hurt" over our frequent blaming liberals and Democrats and the biased main steam media for every thing bad. That goes for the nearly endless name calling, blaming, and TEOTWAWKI-ing.
On the matter of abortion it is regrettable, and it is the law of the land. I am greatly disappointed that someone like Justice Sandra Day-O'Connor couldn't find a way to overturn Roe v Wade. There are people out there who for any number of reasons provide abortions. I'm sure many of them justify what they do. Ultimately, whatever reason they choose from "I'm protecting a child from a miserable life" to "I never should have graduated Med School -- I suck at everything I do except this" it is the MOTHER who decides, seeks out and authorizes this legal procedure.
One of the arguments for legal abortion is a desperate woman will get an illegal and unsafe abortion if a legal and safe one is not available. I believe women want abortions in the same way an animal caught in a trap wants to chew it's leg off.
When I was 19 years and three months old I walked the abortion walk with my girl-friend. I was beginning my Sophomore year at a Catholic University that would later go on to have one of the most over-rated basketball teams in history. (I digress . . . but it is SO HARD.) So unlike some I actually have wrestled in the mud with this. We came up with a lot of reasons for why we could avail ourselves of a legal remedy and we had the full emotional and financial support of my girl-friends parents. My staunch Catholic parents sought advice from their priest and ultimately said the decision was ours (that was a watershed revelation for me).
"This changes everything". My girlfriend dropped out of school, we got married in a small ceremony, I worked nights in a funeral home (because it came with a small apartment) Little Dude #1 (now AKA the MI Major) was born the summer before my Junior year. During the next three years we somehow managed to get through it all. Except we divorced before I graduated; before I could legally drink; and before the life we planned on and worked hard for and promised ourselves would be our reward came to be (the life that sans pregnancy would have been).
Were there regrets? GD right there were. Mostly that the same people who would have hated us for taking the easy way out with an abortion were the ones who were offended I brought Little Dude #1 around campus ... "flaunting". That was probably a life changer attitudinally for me. What I or my ex-wife don't regret is loving our unborn child and each other enough to take responsibility.
I am constantly amazed at the things people tell me. The girlfriend of a buddy told me she had an abortion because she knew they could never be married and if they were it wouldn't last so she couldn't destroy her his and the baby's life (yes, she completely missed that part).
Lastly, as I bring this butt-hurt rant to a close, two final things:
Lots of people seek abortions and it has nothing to do with their political or social leanings.
21 weeks is the minimum term where a human being is viable outside the womb. That's 147 mornings where someone woke up, made coffee and asked themselves, "So . . . What should I do today?" Some of them were Conservative Republicans and some of them were devil-worshippers.
John Irving's "The Cider House Rules" is one of my favorite novels.
I have to wonder, though, how we can ever settle such an intimately personal issue as this through legislation when we still have parents seeking to have science teacher's fired for things like daring to use the word 'vagina' in a 10th grade biology class lesson on the human reproductive system.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Dozer523
03-30-2013, 10:37
John Irving's "The Cider House Rules" is one of my favorite novels.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchinthat was the movie I was trying to remember the name of. Michael Caine's portrayal of the tormented abortionist.
craigepo
03-30-2013, 21:10
John Irving's "The Cider House Rules" is one of my favorite novels.
I have to wonder, though, how we can ever settle such an intimately personal issue as this through legislation when we still have parents seeking to have science teacher's fired for things like daring to use the word 'vagina' in a 10th grade biology class lesson on the human reproductive system.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
That's the reason we have a republican form of government, and why Roe v. Wade was so horrid. This is an issue that must be debated vigorously and for as long as it takes. The Supreme Court's decision cut off all the effective debate. They took the decision-making power away from elected legislatures, and a very tough decision was made by nine unelected judges. In so doing, they (the same unelected judges) inserted a heretofore unannounced right, and totally sidestepped the 10th amendment(any power not specific to the federal government remains with the states or the people).
Nonetheless, this post goes further, into the land of killing a living child outside the womb. 100 years from now, I hope U.S. citizens look back at this and are aghast.
Nonetheless, this post goes further, into the land of killing a living child outside the womb. 100 years from now, I hope U.S. citizens look back at this and are aghast.
In my mind this post is ONLY about the killing of a living child outside the womb, the decision to have the abortion has already been made. Botched abortions happen, of course we do not read about them on a regular basis, it's what happens to the baby that I find abhorrent. The problem with abortions is that in this day of enlightenment with so many forms of free or readily available birth control at our disposal people use abortion as a form of birth control, it is too convenient to get an abortion.
I used to be one of those guys who thought that through abortion we were saving a child from a life of poverty or not being wanted in a loving home. Were it only the poor and the ignorant getting them I might look at it differently today. There are few valid reasons in my mind that abortion should be used as a form of birth control.
I used to be one of those guys who thought that through abortion we were saving a child from a life of poverty or not being wanted in a loving home. .
How noble to pass a death sentence on another, helpless, human being in the name of stopping poverty.
I think I might rather live in poverty than be dead. At least alive, one has opportunities especially if you believe, as I do, that your destiny is your own.
I think I might rather live in poverty than be dead.
I'ts workin' for me, so far. :D
Trapper John
03-31-2013, 12:56
Please forgive me if I sometimes seem to get "all butt-hurt" over our frequent blaming liberals and Democrats and the biased main steam media for every thing bad. That goes for the nearly endless name calling, blaming, and TEOTWAWKI-ing.........
Dozer, Brother, this is one of the most moving and courageous posts that I have read. A {Salute} to you, Brother. Thank you.
One of the most influential pieces of literature that I read as a youth was written by an Episcopalian Bishop Joseph Fletcher, "Situational Ethics". Bishop Fletcher's message is particularly relevant to this thread and I highly recommend it.
My point is that we cannot legislate morality and we shouldn't try. The slippery slope from any point of view on any issue that is fundamentally one of morality leads to oppression of the individual. In light of "De Oppresso Liber" is this not hypocritical? Just some food for thought. ;)
My point is that we cannot legislate morality and we shouldn't try.
We don't have to. It was legislated back when Moses humped those two rocks down the mountain.
Dozer523
03-31-2013, 13:55
My point is that we cannot legislate morality and we shouldn't try. The slippery slope from any point of view on any issue that is fundamentally one of morality leads to oppression of the individual. In light of "De Oppresso Liber" is this not hypocritical? Just some food for thought. ;)And the reality is we do legislate morality. Because human beings are frail, do dumb stuff and find themselves in desperate situations.
See my post about desperation. Thus, we find that the situation has changed (that's what we say; in fact consequences are running their normal course) and we try to address the changes. And it gets complicated and when it gets complicated it gets litigious and the legislature gets involved.
As far as how one squares our motto with hypocrisy let me point out that the legislature -- not the witness, nor Planned Parenthood, nor the abortion provider, nor the mother, nor the guy who got her pregnant determined the cut-off date preforming an abortion. That is the job of the legislature. The state legislature. In this case, the Florida State legislature determined that abortions could be performed until the 22 week. Knowing full-well scientific proof exist that viability outside the womb is likely at 21weeks.
These legislators could very easily have followed North Dakota's lead and made the cut-off date at 6 weeks. The Florida State Legislature could have joined the twenty-one states that ban abortions specifically after viability, (most with exceptions for the life or health of the woman). These laws are considered legal under Roe v. Wade, which found that states have a “compelling” interest in protecting a fetus that “presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother’s womb.”
For those of you who didn't watch the clip but still offered an oppinion, no fetus were harmed in the making of that broadcast.
Please forgive me if I sometimes seem to get "all butt-hurt" over our frequent blaming liberals and Democrats and the biased main steam media for every thing bad. That goes for the nearly endless name calling, blaming, and TEOTWAWKI-ing.
Doz, let me explain why I'm so enraged at the former profession once known as journalism.
It is like running into a corrupt cop. But it is not just a corrupt cop, but the entire department is corrupt. Actually it is even worse - just about every cop is corrupt, in every department in every city!
WRT to the OP - here in Colorado, we're having one of those one-sided political conversations about doing away with the death penalty. A writer to the bigoted paper asked a great question - "where are all the pro-life people with regards to the death penalty." Unfortunately my explanation will never be printed which is - "those of us who are pro life know the difference between taking life and the taking of innocent life."
FTR - I am for the death penalty, but I am against how "The State" goes about it. I am pro life, but it is not the most important issue for most that I know. But I am becoming more concerned with the increasing callousness and expansion of murder to the born and unborn in this society.
Is murder immoral?
The death penalty is a form of murder.
Doctor assisted suicide is a form of murder.
Abortion is a form of murder.
How can we legislate morality when we can't even agree on what it is?
Hell, neW yorK and chicagO try to legislate the type of snacks and soft drinks you can have?
How morally oppressive is that? I'd rather be told I cant buy beer on sunday than be told I cannot have a 17 ounce soft drink ANY day of the week.
...yet, only one political party seems to be the ones we blame for 'oppressing' us with excessive morality.
Honor killing is encouraged in some religions so isn't a law to prevent murder a form of moral oppression?
LAWS are nothing more than legislated morality. Without laws we are faced with lawlessness...
I would rather we legislate morality and arm the citizens than disarm the citizens and allow "freedom from moral oppression". At least that way the citizens have a REAL voice when they decide 'enough is enough'
...or is arming the citizenry immoral as well?
...I bet the armed but morally oppressed would live exactly the life they wanted to live.
Maybe I am just missing a few facts.
Is murder immoral?
The death penalty is a form of murder.
Murder is immoral, but the death penalty is not murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life.
I find it funny that great numbers of folks on the left (not that many on the right wouldn't to the same thing) would pull out all stops to save a baby bird or squirrel that fell out of the nest ........
But can then in this case go "Eh, no big deal. Mother's choice."
Funny? Maybe more like sad.
Airbornelawyer
04-01-2013, 06:11
Murder is immoral, but the death penalty is not murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life.
Technically, at least under the common law definition, murder is the unlawful taking of a human life with malice aforethought. Without the "malice aforethought", it's manslaughter.
But the definition is a tautology anyway - murder and manslaughter are illegal killings because we made them illegal. As Billy L-bach said, laws are legislated morality. And where we draw the line between illegal and legal killings says where we stand as a society on there moral issues.
I used to be one of those guys who thought that through abortion we were saving a child from a life of poverty or not being wanted in a loving home. Were it only the poor and the ignorant getting them I might look at it differently today. There are few valid reasons in my mind that abortion should be used as a form of birth control.
Well, I am one of those guys whom people who think like this think should be dead, so I take this rather personally. I am the child of a single mother and grew up in poverty. If Roe v. Wade and the mindset it reflected had come around a few years earlier, I would have been killed. Maybe the world and my family would have been better off without me, but the idea that I would have been "saved" by being killed is abhorrent to me.
GratefulCitizen
04-01-2013, 07:39
I used to be one of those guys who thought that through abortion we were saving a child from a life of poverty or not being wanted in a loving home. Were it only the poor and the ignorant getting them I might look at it differently today. There are few valid reasons in my mind that abortion should be used as a form of birth control.
Rationalization.
Children take a tremendous investment of time and energy from the finite lifespan of those who care for them.
"Saving" them is really just a euphemism for the adult avoiding the spending of that time and energy.
The failure to produce the next generation means there won't be sufficient caretakers for the elderly when their time comes to be dependent.
The cheapening of life affects the weakest among us the most, both young and old.
The consequences of forsaking the future are currently landing on a generation.
Elder neglect, abuse, and euthanizations of economic convenience will increase.
Most adults are emotional children to one extent or another; this is the source of many of the complaints about society in this very forum.
Nailed it, Doc.
ddoering
04-01-2013, 13:27
Rationalization.
Exactly. Just like the Nazis rationalized the Final Solution to the Jewish problem.
To a large degree, I have to agree with Dozer. It seems to me that "conservatives" put emphasis on having the baby, but once that baby is born, it and its mother becomes a "burden" on society.
The topic of abortion is near and dear to my heart for three reasons. First being, my mom with me. She was an RN, and the same day she found out she was pregnant with me, she also found out she had been exposed to measles. For weeks, her OB/GYN, and many of her doctor friends tried to convince her to have an abortion. They told her that there was a 25% chance or less that she would even be able to carry me to term, because I would be so deformed she would likely suffer a miscarriage. Why put yourself through that they asked her. She never had a doubt in her mind what she would do. Granted I was born 2 weeks early, but other than that, a healthy kid.
Many of you who have been on here a while know I had an unplanned pregnancy when I was a 1st Lt. I was not married, and it caused some pretty significant issues for my career, in the short term. Once again, people in leadership positions urged me to have an abortion. "Officers don't get knocked up" "You have to a choose between a career and a child as a single parent" blah blah blah. Luckily I had the support of the people that matter the most to me, my family. Mom, as a die hard Catholic, was upset that I had put myself in that situation, but she NEVER had anyting but compassion and love for me, and without her and the rest of my family, I wouldn't be where I am today. They all have played a significant role in raising my daughter, to the point that J sometimes says she has 4 mothers and 3 fathers :)
I never once considered having an abortion. It wasn't an option for me. I knew it would be hard, but I could not let my child die, because I made a poor decision in life. I can still remember the day she was baptized in the church I grew up in. There were those who appreciated the fact that I did not take the easy road, and had J. Then there were those who are against abortion, but like Dozer case with his son, looked down their nose at me since I obviously was going to need "help" raising my child. Meaning from the federal government, because Lord forbid I actually have a good job and a support network that would keep me off the public dole.
The final story is the most painful for me. My then 19 year old stepdaughter called me one day in May 2 years ago to tell me she was pregnant and needed to get an abortion. She refused to talk to her mother, and begged me not to tell her father. I told her I would never keep a secret like that from her dad, but if she didn't want her mom to know, I wouldn't tell her. In return I begged her not to have the abortion. I would take the baby, my sister who can't have children would take the baby, my best friend from college who can't have children would take the baby. All to no avail. She was not raised in my home, and therefore did not have the religious background to ask God for help and support. Her relationship with her mother is tenuous at best, and she could count on no support from her. Additionally, she was across the country, and any talk of coming out to us was out of the question. So she had the abortion, and my heart still aches any time I think of it.
So while these three stories go from a wed mother having a child, to an unwed mother having a child, to an unwed mother having an abortion, in my mind they provide a look into the reasoning why some decide to have their child, while others don't. Yes we have an epidemic in this country of single mothers having more and more babies, which almost to a person on this BB state they are tired of paying for. But until we can find a way to provide some support mechanism to these mothers, instead of just thinking they are another leach on society, we are going to continue to have issues such as this topic come up.
In my opinion, either we value the life just as much AFTER it is born, as when it is in the mother's womb, or we are hypocrits. As much as most of us would like to believe that "abstinence" is the best way to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, it isn't realistic to believe it is fullproof. I was raised to believe sex was for marriage. Look where that got me. We need to be teaching sex ed in schools. Maybe not to kindergarteners, but at the 5th and 6th grade level. We need to get young girls to believe they have more worth, than as jsut some cute guy's one night stand. (J's 10th grade class has almost 25 girls in it that either have babies or are pregnant right now). We need to teach young men that there is nothing "queer" about waiting to have sex, and if they do have it they need to start respecting themselves, as well as their girlfriends, enough to use a condom.
Off my soap box because I could rant about this forever. I believe abortion is murder. But I also think that condeming all mothers that choose to go this route, is wrong. As my parish priest said during his Easter Homily yesterday, Christ ate with sinner, Christ lived with sinners, Christ loved sinners. He did not condemn them. He slowly tried to get them to see the errors of their ways, with compassion, not condemnation. He showed us that strength of conviction and compassion are not polar opposites. Harshness and compassion are. So which are we going to choose to be?
...But until we can find a way to provide some support mechanism to these mothers, instead of just thinking they are another leach on society, we are going to continue to have issues such as this topic come up.
afchic,
Thank you for your post. It takes balls to throw your PII (in a sense) out there. I highlighted the text I want to touch on. I believe that particular "support mechanism" is called a "dad". Not a father, but a dad. They are becoming harder, and harder to find these days. BLUF is however, that shit happens. I'm only in my early 30's, but I've seen enough to know that the Norman Rockwell version of life does not exist.
Women get pregnant, and bio-fathers leave at the first hint of difficulties/responsibility. No amount of school education IMO is going to curb that. Monkey see, monkey do is usually how things pan out. Johnny see's daddy hit mommy, Johnny hits Suzy. Billy was a bastard, Billy's offspring become bastards. It starts and ends in the environment they are raised in.
In reference to your step-daughter, please continue to accept the things you cannot change, have the courage to change the things you can, and pray for the wisdom to know the difference.
afchic,
Thank you for your post. It takes balls to throw your PII (in a sense) out there. I highlighted the text I want to touch on. I believe that particular "support mechanism" is called a "dad". Not a father, but a dad. They are becoming harder, and harder to find these days. BLUF is however, that shit happens. I'm only in my early 30's, but I've seen enough to know that the Norman Rockwell version of life does not exist.
Women get pregnant, and bio-fathers leave at the first hint of difficulties/responsibility. No amount of school education IMO is going to curb that. Monkey see, monkey do is usually how things pan out. Johnny see's daddy hit mommy, Johnny hits Suzy. Billy was a bastard, Billy's offspring become bastards. It starts and ends in the environment they are raised in.
In reference to your step-daughter, please continue to accept the things you cannot change, have the courage to change the things you can, and pray for the wisdom to know the difference.
Thanks for your post. I agree, DADS!!!! My daughter's "first" dad, was my dad. Luckily she always had a male role model in her life.
What you posted got me to thinking. One of J's PSR teachers teaches full time in East St Louis. She said it is truly remarkable the number of 13 and 14 year olds that get pregnant, on purpose, because that is the environment they were brought up in. Girls got pregnant and had to take on all the responsibility, while the boys walked away and got off scott free. She said there were some boys who at 13-14 years of age had 7-8 kids with different moms.
So where does that cycle get broken? When do celebrities start using their clout to talk about kids respecting themselves, instead of rapping about nailing the next ho?
Where do these kids go to for support, once they find themselves with a baby? How do these girls find the support so they can gruaduate highschool and make it in college? How do we raise boys to understand any jackwagon can get a girl pregnant, but it takes a MAN to raise a child?
It obviously isn't happening in the home, so where? And I am not talking about enacting legislation. I am talking about folks like you and me, who are raising decent kids, getting more involved with our kids friends, or volunteering our time in places where there are no role models.
I am talking about folks like you and me, who are raising decent kids, getting more involved with our kids friends, or volunteering our time in places where there are no role models.
That's one of the biggest keys, IMO.
.........So where does that cycle get broken? When do celebrities start using their clout to talk about kids respecting themselves, instead of rapping about nailing the next ho?.............
Sadly for some it has become the cycle of life. Be born into a single parent family getting by on welfare, no adult setting goals, friends are family, home getting crowded, get prego, get your own welfare and start the next cycle.
But this thread is about post abortion killing.
...1.) So where does that cycle get broken? 2.) When do celebrities start using their clout to talk about kids respecting themselves, instead of rapping about nailing the next ho?
3.) Where do these kids go to for support, once they find themselves with a baby? 4.) How do these girls find the support so they can graduate high school and make it in college? 5.) How do we raise boys to understand any jackwagon can get a girl pregnant, but it takes a MAN to raise a child?
It obviously isn't happening in the home, so where? And I am not talking about enacting legislation. I am talking about folks like you and me, who are raising decent kids, getting more involved with our kids friends, or volunteering our time in places where there are no role models.
1.) It won't. Not in the current environment. The best I can think of, is that it can only occur if BOTH parents have a strong moral base to work from. If Johnny Sr. didn't do it, Johnny Jr. more than likely won't do it.
2.) Morals didn't sell last time I checked.
3.) That's where upbringing becomes intertwined with education. I just completed a barrage of birth, newborn, and other classes in preparation of our new arrival. I learned a great deal, but having already been through the birthing process with my ex-wife (bringing my first son into the world), I thought I knew it all (yeah right :p).
The education I received did not come without a price. We paid about $600-$700 for the aforementioned classes. Last time I checked, burger flipper wages were not that much (IF the parents even have jobs). I'd gladly accept the fact that my tax dollars were going toward an education program where youths were given the proverbial "tools for the tool box" that focused solely on the birth mother and birth father raising the child together in a manner that reflected good morals, values, and standards.
4.) I do not have a good answer for this one. If no support is immediately available (i.e. family/friends), they are typically SOL. Maybe a non-profit .org that specializes in these situations would be a benefit. Never underestimate the good nature of an American.
5.) That has to come from the parents, family, or friends of the family whom are in direct contact with the child on a regular basis throughout the child's' life. That is the only way to instill a sense of respect when it comes to members of the opposite sex.
To conclude, since it hasn't been happening in the home, America's youth ultimately needs to take their own message to Garcia. If all avenues for assistance are exhausted, it then becomes time for the survival instinct to take hold and drive on accordingly. I realize that is an "extreme" view to take, but ultimately what REAL possibilities are there?
ETA: After seeing Pete's post, the prior post doesn't hold regard with the topic at hand. Post-abortion termination of life. It is my stance that once that strip of paper turns blue, it's time to quit the smoking, drinking, deli meat, caffeine, and whatever other vice is plaguing you; in order to be the healthiest mama you can be for the new arrival. I personally cannot get my head wrapped around the fact that someone would execute a child after delivery.
Sadly for some it has become the cycle of life. Be born into a single parent family getting by on welfare, no adult setting goals, friends are family, home getting crowded, get prego, get your own welfare and start the next cycle.
But this thread is about post abortion killing.
BAck on topic. How does this thread dovetail with the current prosecution going on in Philly? That doctor ( and I use that term loosely) is going to rot in hell. I do not know how a woman could do this. I don't know how anyone who calls themselves a doctor would preform such a "service"
GratefulCitizen
04-01-2013, 20:28
This takes for granted that said adult knows how to properly raise a child in the first place, which can be a rare thing, especially in those parts of society where crime, abject poverty and lack of personal accountability are more prevalent.
Most adults are emotional children to one extent or another; this is the source of many of the complaints about society in this very forum.
All new parents are lacking in parenting skills.
Children are often the catalyst which changes the emotional maturity of an adult.
Children are always a blessing to those who raise them because they change the caretaker.
Whether a new parent or potential parent chooses to receive this blessing is another matter.
Dreadnought
04-01-2013, 22:38
Children are always a blessing to those who raise them
Who says? That's patently false.
The guy in the original post is an idiot. That fact, however, doesn't change the morality and sensibility I find in the right to be "pro-choice".
Dozer523
04-03-2013, 21:32
? . . . The guy in the original post is an idiot. That fact, however, doesn't change the morality and sensibility I find in the right to be "pro-choice". if you are talking about the representative who just badgers the witness and rephrases her responses with a "so what your saying is . . . ?" Until at some point something sort close to the headline kinda gets said if that's what you wanted to hear. Basically he's just grandstanding from a bully pulpit.
If he really gave a sh!t he'd propose legislation to bring the law into line with nature. Like the Nodaks did.
The only way liberals will stop supporting abortions is if womb registration passes and fetus's qualify for unemployment first!
/rant
PedOncoDoc
05-03-2013, 04:34
The only way liberals will stop supporting abortions is if womb registration passes and fetus's qualify for unemployment first!
/rant
Nah....the liberals will want them on unemployment - get them dependent on the government early...