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Archer06
11-02-2004, 08:15
Looking for some feedback on the performance of the three following non lethal weapons-
Tasors
Batons
Pepper Spray
I specifically want to know
Which make/models you may have used-
Which you would recommend-
Which you would not ever use again-
Thank You in Advance
Goggles Pizano
11-02-2004, 11:43
Depends upon the situation you find yourself in, and your reason to carry either or all of them.
Taser-My Dept. does not carry them so I can't give you a better answer than this; I have seen them utilized and they do in fact work. However for which type, model number I am at a loss. We used to carry Nova stun guns but they are ineffective against EDP's so we dropped them.
Baton-I still carry a nightstick and prefer it to the ASP collapsable. It's just my preference since I was raised on the nightstick and issued an ASP a few years ago. The ASP is a nice weapon, easily concealed (if that is mission essential), and holds up well during deployment (ie will not bend or break). If I had to find something bad to say about the ASP it would be it's tendancy to collapse during use if not extended forcefully enough. Moreover once extended you need to strike it against a hard surface (wall, street, pavement) to reholster it (not a quiet process).
Pepper spray-We carry Punch III which is a Cayene pepper base. It's great stuff and works as advertised. You will have to choose where/how to deploy it as pepper spray is much like any gas-once it's used the immediate area is contaminated. Experience: I have been sprayed by more partners using this stuff than I care to mention. If your tango wants to fight, and you have to go hands on, you and anyone else assisting WILL be affected by the spray. The effect is much like your trip through the CS chamber-all the snot and sting, not complete incapacitation but enough to make you move out of the area pronto. Also the spray gets on everything; clothing, skin, hair, equipment-all of which will give you that warm fuzzy remembrance hours/days later when you touch the stuff again and rub your eyes or nose. Be advised pepper spray's effect (in my experience anyway) is severely hampered by a cold weather enviornment! The desired incapacitation will only come to fruition when the subject is returned to a warm air area (see vehicle/house/hospital etc).
If your wish is to have the pepper spray to contaminate an area for the expressed purpose of slowing a pursuer during an E&E I could not imagine a better product! :D
Hope this helped.
Smokin Joe
11-02-2004, 19:56
Taser- X26. The M-26's are too bulky.
Baton- PR-24 side handle is the only way to go to produce incapatation
Collasable if you have been to the Curciable's (sp) training (ask NDD I don't know about them)
O.C./ Pepper spray we use the Punch II w/ 2 million Schofield Heat Units. SHU is the only way to determine the pain level with them. I.E. 2 millions hurts like hell. 5 million WOW that will melt crap.
Endorphin Rush
11-03-2004, 14:32
Archer06,
Tasers:
I'm with SmokinJoe on the Taser x-26. I've been hit with it 5 times in training and demos. I'm livin' proof that you can't do shit once hit with it. The fifth time I knew what to expect and thought I would try to fight it...yeah right.
Batons:
The ASP baton is great...but has the same problems as all friction lock batons as mentioned by SmokinJoe. I recommend the Monadnock Autolock or Positive Lock models. I switched to the Monadnock Autolock a year ago and I don't look back. The Autolock locks out automatically and will only collapse when you depress the release button located in the tailcap. It also collapses silently as a result, a big plus when trying to remain undetected.
Pepper sprays:
We used to use the Pepperfoam made be Federal Laboratories. We now use the pepper spray made by Pepperball. I liked the foam product better because you don't get the wide area dispersal and associated cross contamination. It's very target specific. But both work very well.
Good luck in your search
ER
Pepper sprays:
We used to use the Pepperfoam made be Federal Laboratories. We now use the pepper spray made by Pepperball. I liked the foam product better because you don't get the wide area dispersal and associated cross contamination. It's very target specific. But both work very well.
Good luck in your search
ER
ER:
Some of the local guys used the foam when it first came out and I was a Law enforcement explorer. There were several cases of folks getting sprayed with it and shaking/flailing/slinging the crap back onto the officer who had sprayed them with it. This was not the intended result and they went right back to their punch spray.
Just my .02
Smokin Joe
11-04-2004, 19:30
ER:
Some of the local guys used the foam when it first came out and I was a Law enforcement explorer. There were several cases of folks getting sprayed with it and shaking/flailing/slinging the crap back onto the officer who had sprayed them with it. This was not the intended result and they went right back to their punch spray.
Just my .02
Yep, I have seen it first hand. Kinda sucks when you get a direct hit from your own O.C. foam.
Endorphin Rush
11-04-2004, 20:51
Stop it...these guys sprayed someone and then allowed that same person to throw it back at them. Please...tell me they understand the tactical advantage of using the aerosol spray while upwind. ;)
All kidding aside, I've seen the good and bad sides of foam, aerosol and stream. I've deployed the aerosol spray in bars and then proceeded to roll around with some clown on a bar stool, the whole time coughing up a lung because the shit filled the entire bar.
Now, if you're into the spray...I'm a big fan of OC/CS. That stuff just takes the "F" out of uck.
ER
Archer06
11-05-2004, 10:38
Thanks, to all have replied. This is good info and I trust your opinions, of course I will need to “field test some of this stuff”- (Endorphin Rush are you interested in volunteering again???) but I appreciate the focus. There is so much on the market that I wanted to screen the majority of junk upfront and then move to situational dependent type criteria for the rest of my selection process. I will keep you posted on my findings.
The Reaper
11-05-2004, 11:37
Thanks, to all have replied. This is good info and I trust your opinions, of course I will need to “field test some of this stuff”- (Endorphin Rush are you interested in volunteering again???) but I appreciate the focus. There is so much on the market that I wanted to screen the majority of junk upfront and then move to situational dependent type criteria for the rest of my selection process. I will keep you posted on my findings.
You should see the line of guys volunteering to get TASERed at the SHOT Show TASER Booth by a cute girl in a skimpy bikini.
TR
You should see the line of guys volunteering to get TASERed at the SHOT Show TASER Booth by a cute girl in a skimpy bikini.
TR
LMAO.
I can see it now. Hey Bubba, watch this. I'm gettin her number after this little taser thingy, can't hurt that bad. I seen it in the movies.
The Reaper
11-05-2004, 12:22
LMAO.
I can see it now. Hey Bubba, watch this. I'm gettin her number after this little taser thingy, can't hurt that bad. I seen it in the movies.
Believe it or not, they were lined up for it.
TR
Taser - x26. Safariland make nice cross draw belt holster for the small X26. Pretty handy, and keeps it out of the way.
baton - don't get the light weight 'air weight' ones... less weight seems like a good idea at the time you are buying one. But no mass, you just can't actually hurt anyone with one when you really really really need to.
OC - we use the PUNCH II M-3s. Splatter stream pattern. They are the small 2 oz size, one application and even if you don't use it all, you toss the can and get a new one. Rather than breaking the seal and carrying a 1/2 can around.
We recently switched to water based propellant after an agency in the area OCed a guy and then tasered him and then continued to OC him while the shock was on... produced a small flame from the propellant. Didn't light the guy on fire or anything, but it was enough to get all the agencies attention. However, depending on how you will will be using it and what considerations you will have to take, the alcohol based propellant will work better as the propellant will open the pours and let the goodness in. :D Also, the first batch of water based propellant cans we had were a little dodgy... like, no pressure and they wouldn't fire. got new ones from the manufacturer and they haven't been any problems since, but I am still suspect.
Like Joe said, you know what SHUs are? Look for that rating on OC. The percentages don't mean dookie... just marketing mumbo jumbo. Look at the SHU measurement and then compute the ppm/volume ratio of 'hotness'.
Believe it or not, they were lined up for it.
TR
Oh I believe it......anything for a Bikini..... :lifter
Did you get any pics or vid's. They would have to rival TL's Michael Myers video's. :)
The Reaper
11-05-2004, 18:09
Oh I believe it......anything for a Bikini..... :lifter
Did you get any pics or vid's. They would have to rival TL's Michael Myers video's. :)
Will try to take some this year. :D
TR
Will try to take some this year. :D
TR
Funniest Home Video's would probably get you 10k for those shots.
:D
Smokin Joe
11-05-2004, 21:55
Just check out
www.taser.com
They should have video area of guys getting taser'd
I have a video of my first ride.... WHOOT!!!
Damn, I should have remembered, don't ever volunteer for anything.