View Full Version : Q. re best SOB Holster
I would appreciate specific information and recommendations on selecting a high quality, comfortable and easy draw small of the back (SOB) holster.
I own a short barrell 1911A1 Para .45 Cal Concealed Carry weapon with under the barrel rail mounted laser.
I am permanently disabled and in a wheelchair. I've tried side holsterss but they get in the way and are too visible. Other options won't work as I live in N. FL where shorts and a shirt are the norm.
Due to the high humidity and heat the ability to handle mosture, sic sweat, is a must. Also its ability to NOT rub is also essential.
Any and all advice is much appreciated.
RichL025
03-07-2013, 01:05
Are you truly looking for a SOB holster? Or do you mean a hip holster that you will wear in your para-lumbar area (4 or 5 o'clock)?
Most of the SOB holsters I have seen hold the weapon in a near-horizontal orientation, requiring you to draw it out to your side somewhat. Unless your wheelchair had no side-rails I would expect that to be difficult to manage.
Holsters designed to be worn behind the strong-side hip are designed to have the weapon drawn more upright, where it seems to me you would be less encumbered by the constraints of your wheelchair.
How is your upper body mobility? Could you manage a lateral draw like a true SOB holster?
I am not an expert at this, just my random thoughts on the subject. If it's truly a 4 or 5 o'clock hip holster you are looking for I can tell you what _I_ like, but I have zero experience with true SOB holsters (other than being told to stay away from them for many other reasons as well)
I echo Rich's comments.
Have you considered one of the CC fanny pack solutions? They will easily handle your weapon and larger. Some of the belt mounted pouches might be too small for your Para, but an appropriate sized pouch could be mounted on the inside of the handrail. These pouches and packs use Velcro for quick access and usually bely their true purpose.
Thanks for the thoughtful input.
I hadn't thought about the back of the hip option. I have some concern re keeping my weapon concealed but it is an opption I want to pursue. Thankks for suggesting it.
My chair has veey low splash guards but doesn't have arm rests or other more typical items thT would interfer with my access.
My upper body mobility is at least a 3/5, some days even a 4/5. For a fat old man my upper body strength isna solid 4/5... maybe 5/5 if age adjusted. I do have serious nerve damage in my left hand so I'm limited to depending oon my right; whch is a damned good tbing as I'm naturally right handed. I'm still using my left hand for.both two hand and one handnshooting at the range with decent success - clearly not as good as my right. The real issue is I tend to drop things and cramp up with my left so can't depend on it for draw or first shot.
This is probably TMI, but perhaps helpful for further thought.
Again, thanks for your input.
Thankk you also for whT you're doing. I pray God wil watch over you, your team, and the rest of your BN.
Cork
Are you truly looking for a SOB holster? Or do you mean a hip holster that you will wear in your para-lumbar area (4 or 5 o'clock)?
Most of the SOB holsters I have seen hold the weapon in a near-horizontal orientation, requiring you to draw it out to your side somewhat. Unless your wheelchair had no side-rails I would expect that to be difficult to manage.
Holsters designed to be worn behind the strong-side hip are designed to have the weapon drawn more upright, where it seems to me you would be less encumbered by the constraints of your wheelchair.
How is your upper body mobility? Could you manage a lateral draw like a true SOB holster?
I am not an expert at this, just my random thoughts on the subject. If it's truly a 4 or 5 o'clock hip holster you are looking for I can tell you what _I_ like, but I have zero experience with true SOB holsters (other than being told to stay away from them for many other reasons as well)
Thanks, clearly I need to look at strong side holsters.
I have a fanny ack now but don't like it; beyond looking like a complete dork it is difficult and very slow to open. Just cumbersome no matter how I carry/hang it. My chair doesn't have arm rests so that's not an option.
I need to find a holster that will remain concealed, can be worn comfortably 12 to 18 hrs/day, and is easily accessable. (That's not too much to expect is it?)
Thanks again,
Cork
I echo Rich's comments.
Have you considered one of the CC fanny pack solutions? They will easily handle your weapon and larger. Some of the belt mounted pouches might be too small for your Para, but an appropriate sized pouch could be mounted on the inside of the handrail. These pouches and packs use Velcro for quick access and usually bely their true purpose.
Team Sergeant
03-07-2013, 22:29
Thanks, clearly I need to look at strong side holsters.
Cork
Cork,
You might want to look at inside the waist band (IWB) holsters.
Kramer makes the best holsters in the world as far as I'm concerned.(I think I have six or seven ;)) You could do a IWB and just let your shirt hang over it.
TS
http://www.kramerleather.com/productDetail.cfm?productID=6&categoryID=23
Old Dog New Trick
03-07-2013, 22:55
Have you considered the front as opposed to the back?
There are a few IWBs that are designed for wear upfront as well as the "Thunderware" stretch bands that securely hold the weapon in place near your groin/belly.
You would think these are or would be uncomfortable for sitting but I work with quite a few people who carry a medium sized semiautomatic and sit for hours sometimes more than 10-hours without complaints.
Just don't go off half-cocked, it might hurt. :D
Thanks! I haven't been oon Krammer'site before. The best site I've been on, very easy to go directly to what I'm looking for.
A few more questions:
1) I am intrigued by the IWB w/sheepskin on the inside. Do you have experience r thoughts on the pros and cons?
2) The other option is the IWB with the FBI angle. What are the pros and cons
Please include any other comments and/or suggestions.Cork,
You might want to look at inside the waist band (IWB) holsters.
Kramer makes the best holsters in the world as far as I'm concerned.(I think I have six or seven ;)) You could do a IWB and just let your shirt hang over it.
TS
http://www.kramerleather.com/productDetail.cfm?productID=6&categoryID=23
Old dog, tell me this is a joke!
I can't imagine placing my weapon in my groin except in a real emergency.
I'd like to say that's because there wouldn't be enough room... but that would be redundant! ( yea, right)
Seriously, I appreciate the suggestions. I will give it a try just to see if it's a viable option for me.
Cork
QUOTE=Old Dog New Trick;494902]Have you considered the front as opposed to the back?
There are a few IWBs that are designed for wear upfront as well as the "Thunderware" stretch bands that securely hold the weapon in place near your groin/belly.
You would think these are or would be uncomfortable for sitting but I work with quite a few people who carry a medium sized semiautomatic and sit for hours sometimes more than 10-hours without complaints.
Just don't go off half-cocked, it might hurt. :D[/QUOTE]
Have you considered the front as opposed to the back?
There are a few IWBs that are designed for wear upfront as well as the "Thunderware" stretch bands that securely hold the weapon in place near your groin/belly.
:D
Cork
Agreed on the thunder-ware,, The story line could go something like:
"Excuse me while I adjust my CATHETER BAG",,, POP POP.. :cool:
I did a home made thunder-ware, using a velcro belt and an old slide style holster. Depending on the snugness, it can hold a J frame S&W thru a full size 1911..
Here is a picture of the belt slide holster I use. It came with the thumb snap, but I carved it off. The pistol is a S&W CS9,, a mini 3914..
For giggles, I tried a 5 inch 629 with shorts,, it worked,, but the girls kept staining.. :D
I would think either a shoulder holster or a front holster like this one would work best. You don't want anything that attaches to the wheelchair because if you're ejected it would be useless.
http://shop.simplyrugged.com/ecommerce/Chesty-Puller-Conversion-System.cfm?item_id=160&parent=672
Interesting post I just came across on another forum.
I apologize in advance for being very excited about this topic. I also know I'm very new to the forum (first post), but I have a little experience on the issue at hand.
I've been injured (L2 incomplete SCI) for 8 years using a manual wheelchair and religiously carrying a compact pistol concealed for about 3 years. I currently use a TiLite Aero Z ultralight chair with a Roho JetStream 10 inch backrest and an Amovida Motion Control hybrid gel/foam seat cushion. Although my primary carry firearm is a Ruger SR40c, I carried a Smith&Wesson M&P 9mm for a while in a Serpa CQC Level 2 Retention rig before I sold it.
I carry at 3:30 on my person in a few different forward-canted holsters and have even found it somewhat comfortable to use my DeSantis *******. rig, but it took some "trimming" of my spare foam back cushion to do so. Just like anyone carrying in the small of back, driving was undesirable, but sitting in my chair with it was very comfortable. It is sometimes hard to recommend a specific holster because many holster companies tend to make all of their holster models for the usual suspects (Glocks, j-frames, XDs, Sigs, M&Ps and 1911s) and only a few models for very specific firearms (Ruger SR40c, Baretta Nano, Chiappa Rhino, etc...) I have carried in a variety of holsters, both IWB and OWB from a few different brands (Galco, Uncle Mikes, Blackhawk, DeSantis, and off brands…), and have gotten away with it because I have good sensation and know when to adjust whatever rig being used so that I do not acquire any sores in sensitive areas. Through my trials and tribulations I found that paddle holsters are also unbearable. Another thing that helps when carrying this way is having little dump in the seating position (the height at the front of my cushion is less than 3 inches higher than the height of the rear portion of the cushion), this allows me to lean forward to present without laying my chest on my knees. I also am approximately 6 feet tall and only weigh around 165 pounds. Though I am fairly fit and thin, I have a very form fitting chair (only 15 inches wide) and have no problem clearing my cover garment and grabbing a firm fire-ready grasp of my firearm in the space between my person and the side-guards of my chair. Note: (side-guards are NOT arm-rests) I do not have handles or armrests on my chair.
I preface this next section as my very own personal opinion and not an attack at anyone for mentioning any similarly previously talked about topic/idea.... To each his own...
With all of that being said, I believe that we wheelchair users are no different than anyone else, in the sense that all of us are individuals with individual needs and abilities. What works for me may not work for you, but don’t write off a thought simply because someone without a disability or someone who spent 2 weeks in a chair says it’s hard to carry while permanently seated. Another big mistake is to make an immediate assumption that seated while driving is an analog for sitting all day in a wheelchair. I feel extremely comfortable sitting ALL day in my chair, and I would say that most, if not all able bodied folks, could not say that about sitting in a car/truck. They are two differently designed applications, that is all. Sometimes carrying in a chair can be more comfortable, for instance my back and side doesn’t hurt from the weight (strain) of carrying a full sized auto like a fully loaded CZ75. That is because the cushion bears the weight via the nose of the barrel while angling the firearm to be basically perpendicular with the ground. Also, I can present arms fairly comparably to my able bodied peers. As I lean forward to access my firearm, I end up in an optimal firing position so that I feel stable under quick groupings.
SHOULDER RIGS: I have a military issue universal large auto canvas shoulder rig and have had a hell of a time trying to get it adjusted to feel comfortable while still retaining stability of the firearm while repeatedly leaning back and forth to propel my chair around the range or in the desert plinking around. This caused the grip to bump up against my chest/side over-and-over again when pushing around and becomes more apparent when fully loaded.
PACKS/SATCHELS: I also find that me and most of my friends who use wheelchairs have plenty of packs and bags already in use to cart around supplies, medications, and various other must haves. Adding another, like a fanny pack or satchel, does NOT make sense to me.
CROSSDRAW HOLSTERS: Crossdraw holsters have my full support, if they work for you, use them! They have all of the same benefits that I talked about in the body of my response, and are even easier to acces while buckled-up in a vehicle. I just don't use them because I found I like drawing from about 3:30, and I don't feel it necessary to fix something that isn't broken.
I truly hope this helps someone, and if it doesn’t work for you I hope it inspires (after 8 years I hate that word!) you to try something for yourself. I have talked for a while with a few local gun shop employees on several accounts and they don’t seem to mind me taking the extra time it may take to test fit a holster on my person before walking out the door with it.
Try a holster on and move around a bit, if it doesn't work, then try another until one does. Stay safe and keep away from those two-legged critters….
Bonediggitty
Very informative alelks, thank you.
Old Dog New Trick
03-08-2013, 10:19
Old dog, tell me this is a joke!
No joke Cork. While it's not for my personal taste, like I said, I work with at least a dozen professional UC/LEOs that carry a full size SIG in the front of their waistband and sit for hours at a time.
Drawing and presentation from a seated position is very natural from these rigs. So yeah, I'd only say look into it for your own decision making process.
Good luck.
This passed to me from a member here:
I carry a Springfield Champion in .45 quite often in a Bob Mernickle designed high rise holster. This type of holster allows for being seated for long periods of time without the barrel portion of the firearm sticking in the seat or sticking in the person carrying it. I'm at work right now and can't get to Bob's website, but if you Google his name you should be able to find it easily for the poster that asked. Bob and his wife are great people and he can call them and explain exactly what he needs. Prices are quite reasonable considering you are getting a custom product, wet molded to the exact model firearm.
MERNICKLE HOLSTERS
www.mernickleholsters.com/
Chaplain Scott
03-09-2013, 12:26
Cork: You might want to also consider a couple of different angles to your problem.
One angle already mentioned is that of the shoulder holster. Being in FL, you could get by with very loose fitting shirts--and you could wear the shoulder rig under your summer weight shirt. I recently bought a shoulder holster due to some lingering hip issues. Andrews custom leather makes a really nice quality shoulder rig. http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm
One other angle is that you could get a smaller pistol. I carry 1911s, so I understand the angst at the thought of going to something smaller, but that still might make the problem a bit easier to solve. There are lots of high quality, smaller pistols out there.
Dale Fricke makes some excellent holsters for AIWB carry (Appendix Inside the Waistband, aka "front carry"). http://dalefrickeholsters.com/products.php
The Zaccheus with a Glock 19 or 26 is surprisingly comfortable and concealable once you're used to it. The Archangel is also comfortable and a bit more consistent in positioning. The "Zack" moves around a good bit, which I like when I'm sitting in the car for a long time - that may be better for being in a wheelchair all day.
Team Sergeant
03-09-2013, 14:39
Cork, you made me put on my thinking cap. ;) This is something I might think about if I were in your shoes:
http://www.ravenconcealment.com/other-holsters-neck-holsters
swatsurgeon
03-09-2013, 20:15
I have one of those for a Kel tec p32, not bad with that weight gun but after a few hours, the para cord isn't too comfortable around your neck without a break.....
ss
Thanks for your input. I'll give the shoulder holster more thought.
I really appreciate the link - lots of options ther.
Cork
Cork: You might want to also consider a couple of different angles to your problem.
One angle already mentioned is that of the shoulder holster. Being in FL, you could get by with very loose fitting shirts--and you could wear the shoulder rig under your summer weight shirt. I recently bought a shoulder holster due to some lingering hip issues. Andrews custom leather makes a really nice quality shoulder rig. http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm
One other angle is that you could get a smaller pistol. I carry 1911s, so I understand the angst at the thought of going to something smaller, but that still might make the problem a bit easier to solve. There are lots of high quality, smaller pistols out there.
Thanks, I'll check them out.
Cork
Dale Fricke makes some excellent holsters for AIWB carry
(Appendix Inside the Waistband, aka "front carry"). http://dalefrickeholsters.com/products.php
The Zaccheus with a Glock 19 or 26 is surprisingly comfortable and concealable once you're used to it. The Archangel is also comfortable and a bit more consistent in positioning. The "Zack" moves around a good bit, which I like when I'm sitting in the car for a long time - that may be better for being in a wheelchair all day.
Thanks, another great site.
Have you given any more thought to the sheepskin option?
I've been exceptionally pleased to the input and suggestions I've received to this question. Your site is proving to be a great asset.
Cork
[QTE=Team Sergeant;495196]Cork, you made me put on my thinking cap. ;) This
is something I might think about if I were in your shoes:
http://www.ravenconcealment.com/other-holsters-neck-holsters[/QUOTE]
Damned right, if I'm carrying I sure as hell don't want to be seperated.
As my ability to quickly egress is limited my best defense may be to eject and roll. I definetly want my weapon with me when I reach for it.
Thanks for the link
Cork
I would think either a shoulder holster or a front holster like this one would work best. You don't want anything that attaches to the wheelchair because if you're ejected it would be useless.
http://shop.simplyrugged.com/ecommerce/Chesty-Puller-Conversion-System.cfm?item_id=160&parent=672
DIYPatriot
03-22-2013, 10:50
Cork, you made me put on my thinking cap. ;) This is something I might think about if I were in your shoes:
http://www.ravenconcealment.com/other-holsters-neck-holsters
FWIW I actually own a couple of these and modified one of them to carry it mounted in my truck so I can easily transition from IWB to open carry while driving. The nice thing about those open rivets is that you can easily bolt them to a console or other solid mount location.
These holsters are tight and crisp, too. There is absolutely ZERO play in them. I've also used this rig, with minor adjustments, while doing outdoor activities and I barely noticed it being there - conceals VERY well.
And on another note, they don't list it as an option, but if you carry a S&W Bodyguard, I know for a fact that they'll make it for you. Just ask for Trek. He took care of me. ;)
Good luck!
Oldrotorhead
03-22-2013, 12:10
No joke Cork. While it's not for my personal taste, like I said, I work with at least a dozen professional UC/LEOs that carry a full size SIG in the front of their waistband and sit for hours at a time.
Drawing and presentation from a seated position is very natural from these rigs. So yeah, I'd only say look into it for your own decision making process.
Good luck.
I know one retired SF member that teaches in Texas that carries this way while driving and sitting. The pistol is accessible even while wearing a seatbelt. Don't dismiss this option out of hand. IIRC Crossbreed might make something that fits your needs. The leather -kydes combination ir pretty confortable to wear all day and in my experience does not chafe. You can trim the leather a little to personalize the fit.
http://crossbreedholsters.com/AppendixCarry/tabid/127/List/0/ProductID/39/CategoryID/1/Level/1/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName
Just don't get this one.
24726
DIYPatriot
03-22-2013, 12:58
Just don't get this one.
24726
Please tell me that is up for a Darwin award!
Just don't get this one.
24726
That's the one I gave my Mother-in-law!
Cake_14N
03-22-2013, 15:15
Cork,
I wear a SuperTuck Deluxe IWB and can adjust it from appendix to small of back to meet the situation and clothing issues I encounter on a daily basis. The holster is made from horsehide so no issues with moisture seeping through and is so comfortable you forget it is there.
I also bought a bedside backup system from them and had a piece of velcro sewn into a ribswear front pack. The holster portion of the back-up is attached to a plastic plate with velcro so I can take the holster off of the plate and put it anywhere I have velcro. Under the dash of my car for one place. I wear this when backpacking. It keeps my pistol on my chest, inside a quick-zip pocket, and readily accessable if I am wearing my pack.
You might want to do a search of the US Concealed Carry Association website and browse their archives. I am at work and the site is blocked, so I cannot provide a link, but I remember an article or two in their magazine specifically addressing needs of folks in wheelchairs and CCW considerations. There might be some useful information there.
Please let us know how things progress so I for one can pass any lessons you learn along to any of my future students in a similar situation.
Cake
Surgicalcric
03-22-2013, 15:45
Old dog, tell me this is a joke!
I can't imagine placing my weapon in my groin except in a real emergency.
I'd like to say that's because there wouldn't be enough room... but that would be redundant! ( yea, right)
Seriously, I appreciate the suggestions. I will give it a try just to see if it's a viable option for me.
Cork
Cork:
Appendix carry is a very viable option pending on your build and the weapon you are carrying.
I have used it when doing low-vis work as well as concealed carry utilizing a FNS9, XDM9 compact, G26, and 92F (all with tactical lights). IMHO it is the easiest to draw from and is easier to prevent in inadvertent printing as you can easily see how well the weapon remains hidden as opposed to constantly looking in a mirror to address the issue.
I only use kydex holsters though.
Crip
Thanks "Cake".
This is another very good suggestion. I'm somewhat overwhelmed by the quality of suggestions I've received from this one simple question.
I've also enjoyed the humor that has come with it.
Cork
Cork,
I wear a SuperTuck Deluxe IWB and can adjust it from appendix to small of back to meet the situation and clothing issues I encounter on a daily basis. The holster is made from horsehide so no issues with moisture seeping through and is so comfortable you forget it is there.
I also bought a bedside backup system from them and had a piece of velcro sewn into a ribswear front pack. The holster portion of the back-up is attached to a plastic plate with velcro so I can take the holster off of the plate and put it anywhere I have velcro. Under the dash of my car for one place. I wear this when backpacking. It keeps my pistol on my chest, inside a quick-zip pocket, and readily accessable if I am wearing my pack.
You might want to do a search of the US Concealed Carry Association website and browse their archives. I am at work and the site is blocked, so I cannot provide a link, but I remember an article or two in their magazine specifically addressing needs of folks in wheelchairs and CCW considerations. There might be some useful information there.
Please let us know how things progress so I for one can pass any lessons you learn along to any of my future students in a similar situation.
Cake
I can second a lot of these posts. I've had a few Kramer holsters and they're all very well made and held up to years of use and sweat (Texas) without any signs on use. I just recently passed off one of my OWB Kramers to my old partner that went to homicide, he's worn it every day and bangs it on crap all the time and you can't even tell. The abuse only added the worn leather look that doesn't look all ragged.
I've also had a few Dale Frickie holsters, very well made. I ran a couple OWB for work and had an appendix holster for a Sig P239 I could not get use to, kept pushing on pressure points when I sat down.
Anymore I carry Glocks in a Raven Concealment Vanguard 2, which doesn't help you, but I'd look at the Raven Phantom holsters. They are very well made and hold very tightly to your body.
Small factors to consider are your climate and potential abuse of your weapon. I personally never cared about my guns, but kydex holsters will add some noticeable wear to your weapons compared to leather. On the other hand, leather holsters will hold moisture and all from sweat more than kydex. That's the main reason I've switched from leather holsters since I moved to Texas.
Thanks Brian,
I live in Jacksonville FL - Warm to Hot w/high humidity 10 months/yr.
A few more Q - for anyone to respond:
1) Would mosture still be an issue w/horsehide holster? (I think it's the best option but would appreciate input from anyone w/actual experience)
2 Will a horsehide holster will retain its stiffneess better than cowhide?
3] Which will be more comfortable?
Thanks for the input.
Cork
I'm sure there's others that have many more years with holsters than I do to come along and answer this... but I never had a problem with horsehide. All of the Kramer holsters I had were horsehide because everything I had read about the materials pointed towards it being better. Over the years I used them, they barely broke down to that "broken in" type feel of leather, they always seemed stiff like I had just gotten them.
I did still notice some moisture, but I sweat and it is Texas. I never compared horsehide to cowhide as far as the moisture build up, but I did have issues with the grip frame screws rusting on my Sigs, never had any rust on parts that mattered though. In the end they're both leather and would be more prone to moisture build up than kydex. With kydex, you'd just have to wipe it out and be good to go, the material itself wouldn't retain it.
I found this site while continuing my research www.holsters.org
The company, Horseshoe Leather Products, appears to make a high quality product. I'd appreciate knowing of any first hand experience. This appears to be a small custom holster company in the UK.
The articles are very good, very informative and wrth reading.