View Full Version : Furloughs
My daughter is a federal employee, she is a facilities manger responsible for the efficient operation of the Federal Courthouse in Brooklyn, NY. She text me today to inform me of impact she will experience due to sequestering.
EVERY 21 DAYS she will have one (1) non-paid day off. To say she is excited at the prospect, would be an understatement.
On another note, I'm amused at the rapid response of the federal system to enact, what appears to me, a rather complicated math to meet the Justice Departments load of the budgets cuts. Is it really possible that the federal system has the capability to respond this precisely, and effectively?
ddoering
03-04-2013, 17:35
She is lucky. DoD civilians are getting an unpaid day every week....
My daughter is a federal employee, she is a facilities manger responsible for the efficient operation of the Federal Courthouse in Brooklyn, NY. She text me today to inform me of impact she will experience due to sequestering.
EVERY 21 DAYS she will have one (1) non-paid day off. To say she is excited at the prospect, would be an understatement.
On another note, I'm amused at the rapid response of the federal system to enact, what appears to me, a rather complicated math to meet the Justice Departments load of the budgets cuts. Is it really possible that the federal system has the capability to respond this precisely, and effectively?
Maybe things are different in other federal agencies, but by my experience, DoD is a laughing stock. We have been told EXPLICITY by DSCA we are not to put anything in writing about what is going on, and we are not allowed to say very much to our civilian employees.
95% of my organization is civilian. We are trying to figure out how we are going to meet the requirements of our in residence courses, while meeting the requirements we have for onsites and METs. There are only 5 military and it looks like we will be working 80-90 hour weeks to try and meet the demands while our civilians are doing the 2 day a pay period furlough.
The Air Force has put out guidance, against the policy set forth by DoD to say nothing. It is amazing to me that there are no plans in place (that anyone in any leadership position) to at least have a starting point for this.
Don't know if this is true or not, but a certain talk-radio host stated that furloughed government workers always got back pay.
While that might be true when the congress doesn't pass a budget, but I don't think it will apply in a alleged budget cut-back case like we have here.
Just a Clark bar for the pool.
We are going to lose 16 hours a pay period. 2 hours a day, or one day a week, or combinations as long it comes out to -16 hours per 40.
Afchic, I think DSCA is screwing your govt civvies. Our EA is the USAF, and we've had 4 all-hands "town hall" meetings in the last month about the furlough, to include one hosted by GEN Dempsey (CJCS). Our J1 has all the USAF, DOD and COCOM policies regarding furlough, to include impacts to pay/leave/TSP/allotments/step advances/etc. posted on the command portal. There's no dearth of info on the whole deal here, so it sounds like DSCA is dropping the ball.
The Reaper
03-04-2013, 22:36
We are going to lose 16 hours a pay period. 2 hours a day, or one day a week, or combinations as long it comes out to -16 hours per 40.
You mean 16h per 80 hour pay period.
8h per 40.
This is not due to sequestration alone. The inability of Congress to pass a budget or a better Continuing Resolution, in conjunction with OCO cuts have taken 25% plus off the DoD's budget, with only have six months left in the fiscal year to find the money to cover the cuts.
This isn't going to be the painless little adventure (reduction in the budget increase) the media was saying it was going to be. Unless you are among those no longer looking for work and living off welfare. No real cuts there.
TR
Santo Tomas
03-05-2013, 07:01
They preach that it is a 20% decrease in gross pay for 8h every 40. Do the math and it comes out to about 28% of net pay.
Well - DM's on it. :D
Richard :munchin
Not sure why DSCA is so hush-hush...
To the Soldiers, Civilians and Leaders of the U.S. Army,
As you are aware, sequestration went into effect on Friday, March 1st.
Over the past several years, we have faced a lack of predictability and flexibility in our budget cycle and a series of cuts. This fiscal year alone, we face the potential of at least an $18 billion dollar shortfall in our Operations and Maintenance accounts, due to the combined impacts of sequestration, the continuing resolution and contingency funding. These are the funds that allow us to support operations, maintain readiness and pay our civilian workforce.
While our attention here in Washington is on the fiscal situation and the difficult decisions that will shape our force into the future, we need you to remain focused on the fundamentals: develop your Soldiers, Civilians and our future Army leaders; conduct tough, realistic mission-focused training; maintain and account for your equipment; be good stewards of your resources; and sustain the high level of esprit de corps in your organization. Our top priority is to ensure that our forces defending the homeland, those in Afghanistan and Korea, and those next to deploy and rotate into theater, have the resources required to execute their missions. We also recognize that along with risks to readiness, sequestration will also bring particular hardship to our Civilian workforce.
We will share information through official Army channels on the impacts of sequestration as soon as it becomes available. You can also expect your Army leadership to visit major installations in the months ahead to facilitate a dialogue and listen to your concerns and those of your Family members.
Our current fiscal situation is challenging, but we must approach this as an opportunity to demonstrate, once again, our commitment to selfless service and our profession. Our Army will always remain, in every respect, the Strength of the Nation. Army Strong!
//Original Signed//
Raymond F. Chandler III
Sergeant Major of the Army
//Original Signed//
Raymond T. Odierno
General, United States Army
Chief of Staff
//Original Signed//
John M. McHugh
Secretary of the Army
This can be found online at: http://www.army.mil/article/97660
They preach that it is a 20% decrease in gross pay for 8h every 40. Do the math and it comes out to about 28% of net pay.
Bottom Line DOD employees are looking at a 176 hours of furlough from late April (week of the 22nd if I recall) until the last week of Sept. It may come to a 28% net decrease but that depends on how you count benefits, allotments and the like. I have a “furlough calculator” but not sure how to attach it.
This one works pretty good:
http://www.stripes.com/news/sequestration/furlough-calculator
There will also be lost leave (both annual and sick leave), at 80 hours of LWOP leave benefits are reduced during that pay period. With 176 hours, that will happen twice.
I agree DSCA is being a pain, I would post the emails I have gotten from leadership, but I promised my boss I wouldn't.
I think the reason they are being so hush hush is there is a chance my civilians aren't going to be furloughed. We operate off of the FMS trust fund, which isn't a US funding source. It is paid for by our partner nations when they purchase weapon systems from us, with a 3.5% admin fee on the LOA. But they are trying to decide if they should still furlough, to keep a level playing field with all civilians that are being furloughed in DoD.
So who knows, but they are certainly taking this smoke and mirrors thing too far for my civilians' comfort.
They preach that it is a 20% decrease in gross pay for 8h every 40. Do the math and it comes out to about 28% of net pay.
I was discussing this with my father(civilian at ARDEC) the other day, and he had come to the same conclusion. :mad:
I think the reason they are being so hush hush is there is a chance my civilians aren't going to be furloughed. We operate off of the FMS trust fund, which isn't a US funding source. It is paid for by our partner nations when they purchase weapon systems from us, with a 3.5% admin fee on the LOA. But they are trying to decide if they should still furlough, to keep a level playing field with all civilians that are being furloughed in DoD.
Heck no! I don't begrudge anyone that can find an alternate funding source and keep on truckin' along normally. Voluntarily taking on hardship unnecessarily "to be fair" is just plain dumb.
Since they are talking about a CRA that continues funding at the sequestration level, and DOD is doing these furloughs, what does that say about the possibility of a furlough next FY? If they can't meet the shortfall this year, how will they meet it next year?
Badger52
03-05-2013, 11:25
Since they are talking about a CRA that continues funding at the sequestration level, and DOD is doing these furloughs, what does that say about the possibility of a furlough next FY? If they can't meet the shortfall this year, how will they meet it next year?Uh-oh... there you go, askin' those pesky questions.
:cool:
No wonder we are so dorked up:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Afghanistan-withdrawal-billions-hardware/2013/03/05/id/493173
"The Obama White House is resigned to losing up to $36 billion worth of military hardware when it pulls out of Afghanistan."
"The cost of transferring the equipment to another U.S. agency or bringing it out of Afghanistan, is seen as a prohibitive $5.7 billion, which means it will probably be lost to U.S. taxpayers for ever."
We would rather torch $36 billion of stuff than pay $6 billion to move it back? Our government lives in Bizarro world.
69harley
03-05-2013, 13:16
I bet Canada, Germany, Australia, England, New Zealand and dozens of other friendly coalition countries would gladly take that stuff off our hands and ship it back to their countries.
I bet the Taliban is doing cheatah flips at the thought of the US leaving so much equipment behind.
I bet the Canada, Germany, Australia, England, New Zealand and dozens of other friendly coalition countries would gladly take that stuff off our hands and ship it back to their countries.
I bet the Taliban is doing cheatah flips at the thought of the US leaving so much equipment behind.
Some MRAPs would be nice!
Although I think we're leaving a bit of kit behind as well.
The Reaper
03-05-2013, 14:24
Right now, there is an office in theater that decides what to bring back and what to leave there. Unfortunately, this ain't Iraq, and we can't just drive all of the rolling stock out across the desert into Kuwait, or to the nearest port.
The Soviets left a ton of shit behind, and had to fight their way out as well, since they could drive to a friendly adjacent country.
We will have to fly everything out. Or have our friendly local allies and drone targets, the Pakistanis truck it to their port. I am sure they will not steal, or gouge us on the shipping.:rolleyes:
TR
My only issue is that someone obviously did an assessment and determined that it would cost $6 billion-ish but stated that that is cost prohibitive. Just don't understand the "torch" $36 billion because you won't spend $6 billion.
My only issue is that someone obviously did an assessment and determined that it would cost $6 billion-ish but stated that that is cost prohibitive. Just don't understand the "torch" $36 billion because you won't spend $6 billion.
Happens all the time...sunk cost vs ROI vs refurb cost vs shipping vs trouble and headaches.
As far as I am concerned, all US GIs should make their way to KAF and start flying out tomorrow! We can call in the carpet bombers after the last C17 takes off!
All for that. Still, to me, that approach is an example of why we are in the current situation.
All for that. Still, to me, that approach is an example of why we are in the current situation.
Then you really don't want to hear what I have heard! The latest news I have from TRANSCOM is that COngress has mandated that instead of distributing the stuff to the Northern Distribution Network partners, like DoD wanted to do, Congress has said we will fly the stuff down to Yemen and a couple of other places to help them out.
Maybe we could have a yard sale...if you can tow it - you can take it! :D
ddoering
03-05-2013, 16:23
Our current fiscal situation is challenging, but we must approach this as an opportunity to demonstrate, once again, our commitment to selfless service and our profession. Our Army will always remain, in every respect, the Strength of the Nation. Army Strong!
//Original Signed//
Raymond F. Chandler III
Sergeant Major of the Army
//Original Signed//
Raymond T. Odierno
General, United States Army
Chief of Staff
//Original Signed//
John M. McHugh
Secretary of the Army
This can be found online at: http://www.army.mil/article/97660
Perhaps they will lead by example and take a 20% pay cut like the rest of us.
69harley
03-05-2013, 17:58
Back to the subject of furloughs. I had lunch today with a friend that is a retired SGM and now works as a GS on one of the compounds on Bragg. He was sort of glad for the furlough. Yes, he is going to take a cut in pay, but it doesn't not effect him too much. He was working a bunch of overtime, some paid, some not. Now he is prohibited from working late and has an extra day off each week. He did recognize the fact that not everyone is in the same financial situation as him, but many if not all of the GS guys in that compound are retirees.
Dozer523
03-13-2013, 07:13
a retired SGM and now works as a GS on one of the compounds on Bragg.
There's a word for that:
mafioso