View Full Version : Obama DHS Purchases 2,700 Light-Armored Tanks to Go With Their 1.6 Billion Bullet Sto
BMT (RIP)
03-04-2013, 09:49
This is getting a little creepy.
According to one estimate, since last year the Department of Homeland Security has stockpiled more than 1.6 billion bullets, mainly .40 caliber and 9mm.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/03/obama-dhs-purchases-2700-light-armored-tanks-to-go-with-their-1-6-billion-bullet-stockpile/#sthash.c3FfxTlp.dpuf
BMT
steel_eel
03-04-2013, 10:18
Is there any supported documentation behind this article, besides a potentially photoshopped photo?
steel_eel
03-04-2013, 10:42
The MRAPs, at least, are already in the field:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pS9aw5pcJo
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1209/120906slidell.htm
Not denying their existence, but 2,700 is a very large number to be claiming without some sort of FBO announcement or other documentation.
I don’t know how far I will go with the tinfoil yet. I will however write my congressman to ask simply,
1.How armed does DHS NEED to be?
2.What part of DHS's mission is allowing them to become or at least appear to be a military force?
3. What are the limits of DHS "METL"?
mojaveman
03-04-2013, 11:20
If true the MRAPs are probably going to be used to help secure our border with Mexico, but all of the ammunition being stockpiled kind of makes one wonder if our government knows something that we don't.
Kyobanim
03-04-2013, 11:32
I'll bet the people that run that site have stock in RJ Reynolds.
Badger52
03-04-2013, 11:40
I've seen the film somewhere online wherein some DHS personnel proudly show off one of these things. However, I've also seen a couple of the referenced links being flung around and they go to a chassis upgrade of (ta-da) about 2700 MRAPs via an Army contract to be done by Navistar.
I don't doubt Big Sis would love to have 'em for a minute, but insufficient dots for me.
If true they're probably going to be used to help secure our border with Mexico.
MM, I ran your post through the Fixer-Upper Machine. ;)
Pat
Y'all might consider going to an "A" vs "F" level info source and see what they have to say about it all - this might help place it in context as to who is actually doing the spending and why.
"Many cities or local governments have used UASI or DHS grant funds to purchase Bearcat armored vehicles. The small town of Keane, NH (population 23,000) purchased a Bearcat vehicle. The grant application cited protecting the town’s annual pumpkin festival for why the armored vehicle was needed."
Safety At Any Price: Assessing the Impact of Homeland Security Spending in US Cities
http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=b86fdaeb-86ff-4d19-a112-415ec85aa9b6
Tip of the Day: Buy more Alcoa stock. :rolleyes:
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
I'll bet the people that run that site have stock in RJ Reynolds.
I sold mine in order to buy CRDN. It seems 3M beat me to it; they bought Ceradyne last November.
Pat
Y'all might consider going to an "A" vs "F" level info source and see what they have to say about it all - this might help place it in context as to who is actually doing the spending and why.
"Many cities or local governments have used UASI or DHS grant funds to purchase Bearcat armored vehicles. The small town of Keane, NH (population 23,000) purchased a Bearcat vehicle. The grant application cited protecting the town’s annual pumpkin festival for why the armored vehicle was needed."
Safety At Any Price: Assessing the Impact of Homeland Security Spending in US Cities
http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=b86fdaeb-86ff-4d19-a112-415ec85aa9b6
Tip of the Day: Buy more Alcoa stock. :rolleyes:
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
We just got a Bearcat here in Bloomsburg, PA. It is supposed to be shared by the surrounding 7 counties.
http://pahomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=301392
Overkill? Certainly. Time to start looking into Alcoa stock...
We have a Lenco bearcat paid for by UASI funding. Ours is a regional asset. I've seen one MRAP which was using our EVOC course and it's the FBI that had it.
GAO: Obama Administration has no Official Metrics to Measure Border Security
Will Not Adopt Any until Late 2013
So Why all the Armored vehicles?
However, through the lens of this metric, it was clear that U.S. borders were still highly vulnerable. At the end of Fiscal Year 2010, DHS stunningly reported it had operational control over only 13 percent of the border, or 1,107 of the 8,607 miles across U.S. northern, southwest, and coastal borders. (Id.) DHS further reported that 44 percent of the 2000-mile southwest border was under operational control. (GAO Report 113-330T, Feb. 26, 2013) When analyzing the remaining 7,500 miles of border not under operational control, GAO found that that nearly two-thirds of these border miles were "low-level monitored," meaning that the Border Patrol had some knowledge to develop a rudimentary border control strategy, but border security was vulnerable due to limited resources or inaccessibility. (GAO Report 12-688T, May 8, 2012)
http://www.fairus.org/legislative-updates/fair-legislative-update-march-4-2013?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=FAIR%20Legislative%20Update%20&utm_content=FAIR+Legislative+Update+3-4-2013#8
I'd say interesting facts.
Is there any supported documentation behind this article, besides a potentially photoshopped photo?
Why because its not on CNN or FOX.
jkirkthomas
03-05-2013, 04:54
No worries guys, this is the good ole United States, what could possibly go wrong? Armored vehicles, automatic weapons, and a billion or so rounds here and there, what's there to be concerned about?
2018commo
03-05-2013, 05:09
Navistar - Headquarters
2701 Navistar Drive
Lisle, IL 60532
331-332-5000
Makes you want to put your hat on the side of your head and say hmmm...
Hmmm, wonder if they are going to make those available for civilian purchase. I could sell my two snowmobiles and use one of those. As long as I keep it semi-automatic it won't be considered an assault tank, would it?:D
The Reaper
03-05-2013, 07:36
$600,000 each and up, FOB. Your tax dollars at work.
Time to look closely at how the bad guys are destroying them in theater.
TR
It's just government (politicians) in action.
Free money to buy toys.
How many local governments would be buying all the toys if they had to raise taxes in their area to pay for them?
Kinda' like those Fire Trucks in Texas. The locals didn't want to raise taxes to pay for them so they got a Federal Grant. Didn't cost a thing - free money.
" The small town of Keane, NH (population 23,000) purchased a Bearcat vehicle. The grant application cited protecting the town’s annual pumpkin festival for why the armored vehicle was needed "
I spent my teenage years near Keane. Most any part of NH is interesting. I seem to remember Keane in particular back during the huge ice storm of the mid 90's. Someone convinced FEMA that every town person needed a new Grizzly FourWheeler, Generator, and large Farm Tractor. All on Grants. It really happened. I was really annoyed about it back then because almost all of them never even lost power. Meanwhile in the White Mountains we lost power for two months. During that time not a single FEMA relief truck or person ever came looking for our town.
frostfire
03-05-2013, 08:26
Time to look closely at how the bad guys are destroying them in theater.
TR
:D
After several years of taking care the occupants inside fresh from theatre, I've learned that the flesh-and-blood-based personnel inside are not concussion-proof, suffocation-proof, drown-proof, heat-proof, fire-proof, EFP/molten metal proof. Thus, no matter how much $$$$-worth equipment they're riding in, they are still the weakest link....
It won't be long until these are drone-based :eek:
steel_eel
03-05-2013, 08:34
Why because its not on CNN or FOX.
No, because I'd like some evidence before I break out the Reynolds Wrap.
I did a little digging at the source's source and could only find this article, but no mention of DHS:
http://www.defenseprocurementnews.com/2012/09/19/navistar-defense-to-upgrade-2300-mraps-to-defend-against-evolving-threats-press-release/
I don't have cable, so I get my news from Drudge and Breitbart :D
Badger52
03-05-2013, 09:03
I did a little digging at the source's source and could only find this article, but no mention of DHS:Ergo, my earlier comment about insufficient dots (to connect). All I've found was a TACOM life-cycle program for chassis upgrades.
DHS is gonna by the discarded chassis collection and have them refurb'd at Rick's Restorations in Vegas?
There are plenty of valid target sets in DHS behavior; not seeing this as one of 'em yet. The defeat TTP exercise is worthwhile though...
Hmmm, wonder if they are going to make those available for civilian purchase. I could sell my two snowmobiles and use one of those. As long as I keep it semi-automatic it won't be considered an assault tank, would it?:D
You want to drive a stick with that thing ???
Instead of Assault Tank, consider calling it a High Capacity SUV and you should be okay. ;)
Me, I'm secretly working on a project that the govt. will never figure out what it is.
Here's a latest picture of me and my team putting it through it's paces ....
Gold Eagle
03-06-2013, 07:35
I don’t know how far I will go with the tinfoil yet. I will however write my congressman to ask simply,
1.How armed does DHS NEED to be?
2.What part of DHS's mission is allowing them to become or at least appear to be a military force?
3. What are the limits of DHS "METL"?
Please post the congressman's answer.
If one reads Senator Coburn's report (link in post #11), they will find it indicates that although DHS is funding these vehicle purchases under their UASI program, the vehicles are actually being requested and purchased with the grant funds given for the use of local police departments, not the DHS.
For those who never bother to read the posted linked information, here's a sample of what the report says about the purchasing of armored tactical vehicles starting on p.36.
With billions in grant dollars up for grabs, police departments—large and small—are using UASI funds to beef up their arsenal of crime-fighting tools even as violent crime has been on a steady decline for the past 20 years. “Militarized” vehicles and bomb detection robots top the list of “must have” equipment being purchased by law enforcement teams around the country.
Recent lengthy reports have documented the widespread use of militarized tactical equipment and vehicles nationwide. One local UASI official interviewed expressed some discomfort with the spending spree, noting that other urban areas are buying equipment that is “nice to have,” rather than “items that they need.”
It has been noted that police departments are arming themselves with military assets often reserved for war zones. One California resident observed as much when officials in Carlsbad—a city with one of the state’s lowest crime rates—expressed interest in using DHS funds to buy a BearCat: “What we're really talking about here is a tank, and if we’re at the point where every small community needs a tank for protection, we’re in a lot more trouble as a state than I thought.”
Reports found that Fargo, North Dakota, received more than $8 million in homeland security grants, which is significant considering its local crime record.
Fargo, a town which “has averaged fewer than 2 homicides per year since 2005” bought a “new $256,643 armored truck, complete with a rotating [gun]
turret” using homeland security funds. Fargo Police Lieutenant Ross Renner acknowledges that Fargo “[does not] have every-day threats here when it comes to terrorism.” It is for this reason perhaps that as of December 2011 the vehicle was only used for “training runs and appearances at the annual Fargo picnic, where it’s been displayed near a children’s bounce house.”
Militarized vehicles are becoming more commonplace in cities and towns across the country in large part because federal funds can be used to acquire one, including from the UASI program. Police departments rave about the vehicles’ “shock and awe” effect saying the vehicles’ menacing presence can be enough of a deterrent for would-be criminals. Like Fargo, North Dakota, other cities and towns such as Syracuse, New York and Manchester, New Hampshire have paraded them around town at various community events and parades. Last April, the City of Clovis, California Police Department brought the department’s BearCat to the annual Letterman Park Easter Egg Hunt.
Armored Vehicle Spending Spree
Seizing on the opportunity, some vendors now market free grant assistance to law enforcementagencies, and frequently benefit when the grants
are used to purchase their goods and services. For example, on its website Lenco Armored Vehicles – the maker of BearCats – promotes “unlimited, personalized grant consulting” and “unlimited reviews of grant applications” to cities. One state official described Lenco as “own[ing] the market on armored vehicles.” By providing grant writing assistance with a goal of obtaining most of the funds, contractors like Lenco provide a service that these officials find hard to refuse. Lenco boasts of outfitting over 300 law enforcement agencies across the country with its $250,000 vehicles, saying that the
majority of sales came after September 11, 2001.
In response to written questions from staff, Lenco officials confirmed that the company often “provided some level of assistance for all Homeland Security grants which list the BearCat on the Approved Equipment List.” Lenco also provides an eight-page guide to grantwriting and grant template materials to local and entities seeking grant support. Lenco officials also explained that grant funding “often plays a role in the procurement of our vehicles,” but that “it is the specific agency who submits and receives the grant, not Lenco.”
Lenco told staff it believes that its vehicles are essential to safely respond to “high risk warrants, drug raids, and potential terrorist activity.” Not providing these vehicles to local law enforcement, Lenco believes, is similar “to asking your Department of Public Works to collect garbage without a Waste Collection truck.”
Lenco has positioned itself as the premier provider of militarized vehicles to law enforcement agencies. Built on a Ford F-550 chassis and reported to have speeds of up to 90 miles per hour, they offer gas mileage of 8 to 10 miles per gallon,181 Lenco’s BearCat is the armored vehicle of choice. One official described the BearCat as the only armored vehicle “that California agencies will consider,” adding, however, that the first one procured, “got stuck in the mud on its first use.”
The need for such advanced tactical vehicles in small towns and cities is something that even those purchasing BearCats have questioned. In Waukesha, Wisconsin, the city council approved using a $200,000 UASI grant for one of the vehicles,183 but Sheriff Dan Trawicki cast doubt on whether it would really be all that useful. “The practical applications of this vehicle, to be quite honest, are few,” Trawicki said. “But there are situations when this will be used.” There are many cases of cities using no-bid contracts to purchase BearCats, raising questions about whether they are as cost-effective as possible. Take for example the City of San Jose Police Department (SJPD) that wanted a sole source procurement of a BearCat to replace a rescue
vehicle that the city previously acquired from the U.S Air Force surplus. SJPD acquired its own BearCat despite revealing that four jurisdictions with whom they have a mutual aid agreement—Daly City, Fresno, and Modesto Police Departments and the Placer County Sheriff’s Department— already had their own BearCats. Similarly, because Fontana, California considers itself a “top 100 terrorist target,” it needed a BearCat. The City of Fontana Police
Department then used a “sole source” contract to purchase a BearCat because it is “produced solely by Lenco.”
Coast to coast, law enforcement agencies are using a range of tactics to acquire armored vehicles. San Diego officials explained their plans to purchase three armored vehicles with UASI and other DHS funds.188 One county in state of Washington had used its newly acquired BearCat to pull over drunk drivers. Another jurisdiction has had so much success, it not only purchased a new BearCat, but for the price of a McDonald’s McDouble hamburger, Burbank Police sold its armored vehicle, an older-model Peacekeeper, to South Pasadena Police for $1. Burbank decided to offload the vehicle after buying its brand new BearCat using a $275,000 DHS grant. This purchase was perplexing, however, since Burbank has never had to deploy the Peacekeeper vehicle for any missions. Instead it was only ever used for SWAT training exercises.
There's more - read the report.
And in the blogosphere's realm of daily tinfoil hat Chinese conspiracy theory fire drills that started this latest run on Alcoa stock - so it goes...
Richard :munchin
gwbarnes
03-06-2013, 08:33
A website called Little Green Footballs claims the story is bogus - Navy is buying them for the USMC. Maybe 2 different stories. Link, here:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/294634_Factchecking-_Obama_DHS_Purcha
steel_eel
03-06-2013, 08:58
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/294634_Factchecking-_Obama_DHS_Purcha
Reading the content on that website makes me nauseous. I must be one of those patriot extremist hate group members.
I hate the internet.
Streck-Fu
03-06-2013, 09:26
It has been noted that police departments are arming themselves with military assets often reserved for war zones. One California resident observed as much when officials in Carlsbad—a city with one of the state’s lowest crime rates—expressed interest in using DHS funds to buy a BearCat: “What we're really talking about here is a tank, and if we’re at the point where every small community needs a tank for protection, we’re in a lot more trouble as a state than I thought.”
Exactly.
I'm don't think I like it any more knowing that it is for small community police departments. Not that I expect the Mincie, Indiana Tactical Unit to go rogue with it but why spend the F'n money in the first place?
Utah Bob
03-06-2013, 11:11
New on NatGeo this fall....Police Preppers.:D
Badger52
03-06-2013, 15:59
Just one possible use for it.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/294634_Factchecking-_Obama_DHS_Purcha
Stiletto11
03-06-2013, 16:08
It would be foolish if any of the LEO's or alphabet soup agencies try to disarm the public. They live in our communities with their families and once the word got out they would be in jeopardy, besides, I don't think many of them are drinking the KoolAide. Take off the tin hat it's ruining the reception to my 1960's black and white TV. :D