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View Full Version : Why You Should Think Like A Green Beret Instead Of A Doomsday Prepper


Snaquebite
02-28-2013, 19:10
Hmmm ..actually a few good points
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-you-should-think-like-a-green-beret-instead-of-a-doomsday-prepper_022013

Peregrino
02-28-2013, 21:32
Hmmm ..actually a few good points
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-you-should-think-like-a-green-beret-instead-of-a-doomsday-prepper_022013

As you said - "a few good points". Personally I found the comments more telling than the article itself. Nice snapshot of the audience's thought processes (or lack thereof!). Most of them are totally ignorant of the fact that he skimmed the wave tops without mentioning all the difficult/dangerous work that goes into "organizing a resistance force" for success (in this case survival of anything resembling community is success). Though in fairness it is hard for a layman to put the years of training/education and mindset required for waging UW into a few paragraphs.

Snaquebite
02-28-2013, 21:41
Though in fairness it is hard for a layman to put the years of training/education and mindset required for waging UW into a few paragraphs.

Good points .

fng13
03-01-2013, 00:04
The question I have in response to this is how does one assert authority in a panic situation if you arn't in a position of authority?

WROL situations seem ripe for people to challenge for leadership of the clan.

So even if you are the man with the plan how do you convince others to follow your lead?

albeham
03-01-2013, 07:01
Carefully..


AL

Richard
03-01-2013, 07:24
The question I have in response to this is how does one assert authority in a panic situation if you arn't in a position of authority?

WROL situations seem ripe for people to challenge for leadership of the clan.

So even if you are the man with the plan how do you convince others to follow your lead?

Best PPT wins the COA Challenge. :rolleyes:

Richard :munchin

ZonieDiver
03-01-2013, 07:53
The question I have in response to this is how does one assert authority in a panic situation if you arn't in a position of authority?

WROL situations seem ripe for people to challenge for leadership of the clan.

So even if you are the man with the plan how do you convince others to follow your lead?

There's always this way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4mrcSGRqdE

fng13
03-01-2013, 08:01
Best PPT wins the COA Challenge. :rolleyes:

Richard :munchin

complete with woosh sounds and slide transition graphics? :p

SF18C
03-01-2013, 08:04
Best PPT wins the COA Challenge. :rolleyes:

Richard :munchin

I just fell outta my chair laughing so hard...the guy across the hall had to come check on me to see if I was alright!

fng13
03-01-2013, 08:11
There's always this way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4mrcSGRqdE

I'm not sure how I would feel about having a guy watch my back who I just kicked in the nuts.

Nevermind though, I found the definitive model;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V4fXJofEBk

:lifter

Beef
03-01-2013, 13:17
Snaquebite, your article has some great points. It is kind of a "sound bite" version, I'm sure due to editorial reasons. There are several sites that detail the Argentinian financial collapse of 1999-2002 and its WORL Scenarios. Most pretty much say the same thing as this article, but with more details and anecdotes. So if you're interested just Google it or go http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.08/tshf1.html

Streck-Fu
03-01-2013, 13:25
Shttp://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.08/tshf1.html

404: Not found

tonyz
03-01-2013, 16:44
404: Not found

Perhaps the link below works -- and was what was intended regarding discussion of the Argentinian collapse. If not, my apologies in advance.

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.08/tshtf1.html

ETA - FWIW, I just tried the link in this post #13 (again) and it worked for me.

Beef
03-01-2013, 17:07
Lessons from Argentina's economic collapse

Wednesday, 13 December 2006

For western countries such as the UK, the first major problems of Peak Oil, assuming there are no oil shocks, will not be the shortage of oil but the economic crises that will occur. Argentina is a recent example of a country that suffered a serious economic crisis, and although Argentina and the UK are not identical, anyone interested in how economic crises can affect individual lives will be very interested in the following vivid description of life for an Argentinian following the economic collapse.

My brother visited Argentina a few weeks ago. He’s been living in Spain for a few years now.

Within the first week, he go sick, some kind of strong flu, even though climate isn’t that cold and he took care of himself.

Without a doubt he got sick because there are lots of new viruses in my country that can’t be found in 1st world countries.

The misery and famine lead us to a situation where, even though you have food, shelter and health care, most of others don’t, and therefore they get sick and spread the diseases all over the region.

What got me started on this post is the fact that I actually saw this coming, and posted on the subject here at Frugal’s, months before the new viruses spread over the country and the news started talking about this new, health emergency, which proves that talking, thinking and sharing ideas with like minded people (you guys), does help to see things coming and prepare for them with enough time.

So I started thinking about several issues, what I learned (either the hard way or thanks to this forum) after all these years of living in a collapsed country that is trying to get out an economical disaster and everything that comes along with it.
Though my English is limited, I hope I’m able to transmit the main ideas and concepts, giving you a better image of what you may have to deal with some day, if the economy collapses in your country.

URBAN OR COUNTRY?:

Someone once asked me how did those that live in the country fare. If they were better off than city dwellers.

As always there are no simple answers. Wish I could say country good, city bad, but I can’t. Because if I have to be completely honest, and I intend to be so, there are some issues that have to be analyzed, specially security.

Of course that those that live in the country and have some land and animals were better prepared food-wise. No need to have several acres full of crops. A few fruit trees, some animals, such as chickens, cows and rabbits, and a small orchard was enough to be light years ahead of those in the cities.

Chickens, eggs and rabbits would provide the proteins, a cow or two for milk and cheese, some vegetables and fruit plants covered the vegetable diet, and some eggs or a rabbit could be traded for flower to make bread and pasta or sugar and salt.

Of course that there are exceptions.

For example, some provinces up north have desert climate, and it almost never rains. It is almost impossible to live of the land, and animals require food and water you have to buy. Those guys had it bad, no wonder the northern provinces suffer the most in my country.

Those that live in cities, well they have to manage as they can. Since food prices went up about 200%-300%. People would cut expenses wherever they could so they could buy food. Some ate whatever they could, they hunted birds or ate street dogs and cats; others starved.

When it comes to food, cities suck in a crisis. It is usually the lack of food or the impossibility to acquire it that starts the rioting and looting when TSHTF. When it comes to security things get even more complicated.

Forget about shooting those that mean you harm from 300 yards away with your MBR. Leave that notion to armchair commandos and 12 year old kids that pretend to be grown ups on the internet.

Some facts:

1) Those that want to harm you/steal from you don’t come with a pirate flag waving over their heads.

2) Neither do they start shooting at you 200 yards away.

3) They wont come riding loud bikes or dressed with their orange, convict just escaped from prison jump suits, so that you can identify them the better. Nor do they all wear chains around their necks and leather jackets. If I had a dollar for each time a person that got robbed told me, "They looked like NORMAL people, dressed better than we are", honestly, I would have enough money for a nice gun. There are exceptions, but don’t expect them to dress like in the movies.

4) A man with a wife and two or three kids can’t set up a watch. I don’t care if you are SEAL, SWAT or John Freaking Rambo, no 6th sense is going to tell you that there is a guy pointing a gun at your back when you are trying to fix the water pump that just broke, or carrying a big heavy bag of dried beans you bought that morning.


The best alarm system anyone can have in a farm are dogs. But dogs can get killed and poisoned. A friend of mine had all four dogs poisoned on his farm one night, they all died.

After all these years I learned that even though the person that lives out in the country is safer when it comes to small time robberies, that same person is more exposed to extremely violent home robberies. Criminals know that they are isolated and their feeling of invulnerability is boosted. When they assault a country home or farm, they will usually stay there for hours or days torturing the owners. I heard it all: women and children getting raped, people tied to the beds and tortured with electricity, beatings, burned with acetylene torches.

Big cities aren’t much safer for the survivalist that decides to stay in the city. He will have to face express kidnappings, robberies, and pretty much risking getting shot for what’s in his pockets or even his clothes.

So, where to go? The concrete jungle is dangerous and so is living away from it all, on your own.

The solution is to stay away from the cities but in groups, either by living in a small town-community or sub division, or if you have friends or family that think as you do, form your own small community.

Some may think that having neighbors within "shouting" distance means loosing your privacy and freedom, but it’s a price that you have to pay if you want to have someone to help you if you ever need it. To those that believe that they will never need help from anyone because they will always have their rifle at hand, checking the horizon with their scope every five minutes and a first aid kit on their back packs at all times.... Grow up

SERVICES:

Whatever sort of scenario you are dealing with, services are more than likely to either suffer in quality or disappear all together. Think ahead of time, analyze possible SHTF scenarios and which service should be affected by it in your area.

Think about the most likely scenario but also think outside the box. What’s more likely? A tornado? But a terrorist attack isn’t as crazy as you though it would be a few years ago, isn’t it?

Also analyze the consequences of those services going down. If there is no power then you need to do something about all that meat you have in the fridge, you can dry it or can it. Think about the supplies you would need for these tasks before you actually need them.

You have a complete guide on how to prepare the meat on you computer... how will you get it out of there if there is no power? Print everything that you consider important.

WATER:

No one can last too long without water. The urban survivalist may find that the water is of poor quality, in which case he can make good use of a water filter, or that there is no water available at all. When this happens, a large city were millions live will run out of bottled water within minutes.

In my case, tap water isn’t very good. I can see black little particles and some other stuff that looks like dead algae. Taste isn’t that bad. Not good but I know that there are parts of the country where it is much worse. To be honest, a high percentage of the country has no potable water at all.

If you can build a well, do so, set it as your top of the list priority as a survivalist. Water comes before firearms, medicines and even food.

Save as much water as you can. Use plastic bottles, refill soda bottles and place them in a cool place, preferably inside a black garbage bag to protect it from sun light. The water will pick some plastic taste after a few months, but water that tastes a little like plastic is far way better than no water at all.

What ever the kind of SHTF scenario you are dealing with, water will suffer. In my case the economical crash created problems with the water company, that reduces the maintenance and quality in order to reduce costs and keep their income in spite of the high prices they have to pay for supplies and equipment, most of which comes from abroad, and after the 2001 crash, costs 3 times more.

As always, the little guy gets to pay for it.

Same would go for floods or chemical or biological attacks. Water requires delicate care and it will suffer when TSHTF in one way or another. In this case, when you still have tap water, a quality filter is in order, as well as a pump if you can have one. A manual pump would be ideal as well if possible.

Estimate that you need a approximately a gallon per person per day. Try to have at least two-four weeks worth of water. More would be preferable.

POWER:

I spent WAY to much time without power for my own taste. Power has always been a problem in my country, even before the 2001 crisis.

The real problem starts when you spend more than just a few hours without light. Just after the SHTF in 2001 half the country went without power for 3 days.

Beef
03-01-2013, 17:12
Buenos Aires was one big dark grave. People got caught on elevators, food rot, hospitals that only had a few hours worth of fuel for their generators ran out of power.

Without power, days get to be a lot shorter. Once the sun sets there is not much you can do.

I read under candle light and flashlight light and your head starts to hurt after a while. You can work around the house a little bit but only as long as you don’t need power tools.

Crime also increases once the lights go out, so whenever you have to go somewhere in a black out, carry the flashlight on one hand and a handgun on the other.

Summarizing, being in a city without light turn to be depressing after a while. I spent my share of nights, alone, listening to the radio, eating canned food and cleaning my guns under the light of my LED head lamp. Then I got married, had a son, and found out that when you have loved ones around you black outs are not as bad. The point is that family helps morale on these situations.

A note on flashlights. Have two or three head LED lights. They are not expensive and are worth their weight in gold. A powerful flashlight is necessary, something like a big Maglite or better yet a SureFire, specially when you have to check your property for intruders. But for more mundane stuff like preparing food, going to the toilet or doing stuff around the house, the LED headlamp is priceless. Try washing the dishes on the dark while holding a 60 lumen flashlight on one hand and you’ll know what I mean. LEDs also have the advantage of lasting for almost an entire week of continuous use and the light bulb lasts forever.

Rechargeable batteries are a must (ed. Get a solar powered battery charger) or else you’ll end up broke if lights go out often. Have a healthy amount of spare quality batteries and try to standardize as much as you can.

I have 12 Samsung NM 2500Mh AA and 8 AAA 800mh for the headlamps. I use D cell plastic adaptors in order to use AA batteries on my 3 D cell Maglite. This turned out to work quite well, better than I expected.

I also keep about 2 or 3 packs of regular, Duracell batteries just in case. These are supposed to expire around 2012, so I can forget about them until I need them.

Rechargeable NM batteries have the disadvantage of loosing power after a period of time, so keep regular batteries as well and check the rechargeable ones every once in a while.

After all these years of problems with power, what two items I would love to have?

1) The obvious. A generator. I carried my fridge food to my parents house way to many times on the past. Too bad I can’t afford one right now.

2) A battery charger that has both solar panel and a small crank. They are not available here. I saw that they are relatively inexpensive in USA. Do yourself a favor and get one or two of these. Even if they don’t charge as well as regular ones, I’m sure it will put out enough power to charge batteries for LED lamps at least.

GAS:

Gas has decreased in quality as well, there is little gas. Try to have an electric oven in case you have to do without it.

If both electricity and gas go down, one of those camping stoves can work as well, if you keep a good supply of gas cans.

The ones that work with liquid fuel seem to be better on the long run, since they can use different types of fuel.

You can only store a limited amount of compressed gas and once you ran out of it, you are on your own if stores are closed of they sold them out.

Anyway, a city that goes without gas and light for more than two weeks is a death trap, get out of there before it’s too late.

A DIFFERENT MENALITY:

I was watching the People & Art channel with my wife the other night. It was a show where they film a couple for a given period of time and some people vote on who is the one with the worst habits, the one they find more annoying.

We were in our bed, and this is when I usually fall asleep but since the guy was a firearms police instructor I was interested and managed to stay awake.

At one point the guy’s wife said that she found annoying that her husband spent 500 dollars a month on beauty products for himself. 500 USD on facial cream, special shampoo and conditioner, as well as having his nails polished! If you are that guy and happen to be reading this, or if you know him, I’m sorry, but what an idiot!!

"500 USD, that’s a small generator or a gun and a few boxes of ammo" I told my wife.

"That’s two months worth of food" she said.

We were each thinking of a practical use for that money, the money this guy was practically throwing away.

Once the SHTF, money is no longer measured in money, but you start seeing it as the necessary goods it can buy. Stuff like food, medicine, gas, or the private medical service bill.

To me, spending 500 dollars on beauty products, and to make it worse, on a guy? That’s simply not acceptable.

The way I see it, someone with that mentality can’t survive a week without a credit card, no use in even considering a SHTF scenario. And this guy is a firearms instructor?... probably the kind of guy that will say that a handgun is only used to fight his way to his rifle... and his facial night cream...

Once you experience the lack of stuff you took for granted, like food , medicines, your set of priorities change all of a sudden. For example, I had two wisdom tooth removed last year. On both occasions I was prescribed with antibiotics and strong Ibuprofen for the pain. I took the antibiotics( though I did buy two boxes with the same recipe just to keep one box just in case) but I didn’t use the Ibuprofen, I added it to my pile of medicines.

Why? because medicines are not always available and I’m not sure if they will be available in the future. Sure, it hurt like hell, but pain alone isn’t going to kill you, so I sucked it up. Good for building up character if you ask me . Make sacrifices so as to ensure a better future, that’s the mentality you should have if you want to be prepared. There’s stuff that is "nice to have" that has to be sacrificed to get the indispensable stuff.

There’s stuff that is not "basic need stuff" but it’s also important in one way or another.

My wife goes to the hairdresser once every month or two. It’s not life or death, but it does make her feel better and it boosts her morale. I buy a game for the Xbox or a movie to watch with my wife every once in awhile, just to relax. 7 or 10 dollars a month are not going to burn a hole in my pocket.

Addictions such as alcohol, drugs or even cigarettes should be avoided by the survivalist. They are bad for your health, cost a lot of money that could be much better spent, and create an addiction to something that may not be available in the future.

Who will have to tolerate your grouchy mood when your brand of smokes is no longer imported after TSHTF?

GRAY/BLACK MARKET:

Once the SHTF the black/gray market will take no time to appear all around you.

In my country, gray markets were even accepted in the end. At first it was all about trading skills or craft products for food. Districts and towns would form their own barter markets, and created their own tickets, similar to money, that was used to trade.

This didn’t last long. Those tickets were easy to make on your home computer, there was no control and eventually people went back to paper money.

These markets were usually placed on warehouses or empty land, and were managed by some wise guy and a few thugs or hired security.

Anyone can go rent a kiosk inside these markets for about 50-100 pesos (about 20-30 dollars) a day and sell his goods and services.

Piece within these markets is usually respected... lets just say that these managers don’t call the police if someone tries anything funny, like stealing, fighting or taking advantage of women. That’s not good for their business and anyone that tries to mess with their business finds out how much pain the human body can actually experiment or gets a free ticket to meet the Lord.

Sometimes even uniformed cops manage security on these markets, for a small fee of course. As always, you still have to be careful. They may still try to pick your pockets or even attack you once you leave the market. Once you leave the market, you are on your own, as always.

This market evolves, and now a lot of different products are available. Today I visited my local market, a warehouse that is fairly well set up and cleanly managed. They had problems for selling stolen merchandise and fake Brand name clothes a few days ago.

What can be found at a local markets? Mostly food and clothing. Some have more variety than others but cheese, canned food, spices, honey, eggs, fruits, vegetables, beer, wine and cured meat are generally available, same as bakery products and pasta. These are less expensive than those found at supermarkets. Fresh fish is sometimes available but not always, people don’t trust much products that need refrigeration, and they get those at supermarkets instead.

Clothes are also popular and you can find copies of brand name clothes, imitations, or even original stolen new clothes, the same goes for shoes and snickers. Children clothes, underwear, socks, sheets and towels are all very popular. Some sell toys, but they are always China made, mostly poor quality though there are some few exceptions.

.

Beef
03-01-2013, 17:14
Others sell tools, also made in China can be found as well, but they are of poor quality.

Some offer their services and repair stuff or offer work as handyman.

You would be amazed of the junk that these guys manage to fix: TVs, CD players, Power tools, etc. They even manage to solder the small integrated circuits boards sometimes. Give one of these guys a screw driver and a bar of chocolate and he will fix a nuclear submarine.

After food and clothes, the 3rd most popular item has to be CDs and DVDs, movies, music, play station 2 and Xbox games, programs, it all ends up there just one or two days after the official release in USA. Seems that they have a guy hidden under Bill Gate’s desk or something.

Anyway, almost everything can be found there, and if you want, you can ask around, talk to the right guy and buy illegal stuff like drugs or black market guns and ammo. The quality of the drugs is questionable, of course, and a lot of addicts die from the mixtures these guys sell. Guns are mostly FM High Powers, Surplus 1911s and Colt .45s, Sistemas, and old Colt Detective revolvers in 38 special that found their way from police and military armories into the black market. Condition isn’t very good but if you have money you’ll be amazed of what you can end up with. Everything that is used by the military and police, including SMGs a, Browning 50 BMG Machine guns, and even frag grenades, is available in the black market, if the customer has the amount of money and a little patience, of course. The big guns may take a while, but the handguns and grenades are readily available.

Beef
03-01-2013, 17:16
Lessons from Argentina's economic collapse
Part Two

GOLD:

Someone hit me in the head please because I messed up about the gold issue.

Everyone wants to buy gold! "I buy gold. Pay cash" signs are everywhere, even on TV! I can't believe I'm that silly!

I just didn't relate it to what I read here because they deal with junk gold, like jewelry, either stolen or sold because they needed the money, not the gold coins that you guys talk about. No one pays for the true value of the stuff, so big WARNING! Sign on people that are buying gold coins.

Since it is impossible to determine the true mineral percentage of gold, small shops and dealers will pay for it as regular jewelry gold.

What I would do if I were you: Besides gold coins, buy a lot of small gold rings and other jewelry. They should be less expensive than gold coins, and if the SHTF bad, you'll not be losing money, selling premium quality gold coins for the price of junk gold. If I could travel back in time, I'd buy a small bag worth of gold rings.

Small time thieves will snatch gold chains right out of your neck and sell them at these small dealers found everywhere. This is VERY common at train stations, subways and other crowded areas.

So, my advice, if you are preparing for a small economical crisis, gold coins make sense. You will keep the value of the stuff and be able to sell it for its actual cost to gold dealers or maybe other survivalists that know the true value of the item.

In my case, gold coins would have been an excellent investment, saving me from loosing money when the local economy crashed. Even though things are bad, I can go to a bank down town and get paid for what a gold coin is truly worth, same goes for pure silver. But where I live, in my local are small time dealers will only pay you the value of junk gold, no matter what kind of gold you have. So, I'd have to say that if TSHTF bad, gold jewelry is a better trade item than gold coins.

GUNS, AMMO AND OTHER GEAR:

After TSHTF in 2001, only the most narrow minded, brain washed, butterfly IQ level idiots believed that the police would protect them from the crime wave that followed the collapse of our economy.

A lot of people that could have been considered antigun before, ran to the gun shops, seeking advise on how to defend themselves and their families. They would buy a 38 revolver, a box of ammo, and leave it in the closet, probably believing that it would magically protect them from intruders.

Oh, maybe you don't think that firearms are really necessary or your beliefs do not allow you to buy a tool designed to kill people. So you probably ask yourself, is a gun really necessary when TSHTF? Will it truly make a difference?

Having gone through a shtf scenario myself, total economical collapse in the year 2001, and still dealing with the consequences, 5 years later, I feel I can answer that question.

YES, you need a gun, pepper spray, a machete, a battle axe, club with a rusty nail sticking out of it, or whatever weapon you can get hold of.

A LOT has been written on survival weapons. Everyone that is into armed survival has his or her own idea of the ideal gun battery. Some more oriented to a hunting point of view, others only as self defense means and others consider a little of both, and look for general purpose weapons.

Talking about guns, there is one special subject I want to rectify, and it's the point on what's the primary weapon for the survivalist, specially a urban survivalist that has to function in a society, yes, even after the SHTF.

People, if you are interested in real world SHTF situation, and you want to prepared for the real deal, then understand that this isn't black or white.

You wake up one day and listen on the radio that the economy collapsed and that the stock market closed indefinitely.

CRIME AND INSECURITY:

Even though crime has always been an issue in South America, my country was quite the exception. It was dangerous, yes but nothing like after the 2001 economical crisis. One used to be able to let kids play on the sidewalk, or walk back home from a party, a few blocks, and be somewhat safe. This all changed now. There are no kids playing on the sidewalks anymore. I should emphasize this a little more. There are absolutely NO kids playing on the sidewalks at all, at any time of the day. Maybe a kid rides his bike a few meters on the sidewalk, but always under the supervision of an adult. A kid riding a bike on his own will get that bike stolen in no time, probably get hurt in the process, therefore no responsible parent leaves a kid alone on the street. Teenagers present a greater problem. You can't keep a 15 or 16 year old inside a house all day long, and even though they are big enough to go out on their own, when the sun goes down things get much worse.

This is when parents organize themselves; either taking them to someone's house or to a club and picking them up at a certain time. Taxis and remises are used sometimes , but there have been lots of cases of girls getting raped, so no parent worth a buck leaves his son or daughter in hands of a stranger. After years of living like this, almost everyone learned to be careful; sometimes they had to learn the hard way. Practically no one leaves a door or window opened or unlocked. Nor do they hang out in front of the house talking to friends. A bad guy might just see you there, like a sitting duck, pull a gun on you and take you inside your house.

There are no "bandit's law" anymore. One used to hear people talk about "You shouldn't resist a robbery, give them what they want and they'll go away". That holds true no more. These guys are under the influence of drugs, epoxy glue, or just hate your guts so much, because you have a better life than they ever dreamed of, because they were abused since the day they were born, that they will hurt and humiliate you as much as they can. Letting a criminal inside you house almost guaranties you that he will rape/beat/ torture and abuse whoever they find inside.

I personally drew a line a few years ago and decided, after one long, serious conversation with my wife; that no one would be allowed inside the house, no matter what. We figured that there are worse things than death. Having decided that, I make sure I always have a weapon on me. They'll have to pay dearly for my life, plus interests.

By far, the most dangerous moment of the day, is when I (or my wife) leave/enter my house. A solid, secure house cannot be broken in easily, so criminals wait until you are standing on front of the door with the keys on your hand to jump on you. This is why we are extra alert when approaching our house, look all around us and if we see anything strange, keep walking around the block or keep on driving. No door is ever opened when there is a strange person around. Whenever someone knocks on our door (and we don't know him/her), they are answered from a second story window. Criminals sometimes disguise as electric company guys or something like that, saying that they have to fix something. NO! If there is something to be fixed they can fix it on the sidewalk. Anything inside your house is your responsibility and the company is not going to fix it for you. Either way, it's always better to play it safe, Better to be rude than dead.

On the car/driving issue, that calls for an entire post dedicated to SHTF driving. For now I'll just say that windows and doors have to be closed at all times, a weapon must be within arms reach, and that stop signs and traffic lights have a hole new meaning once TSHTF. If your country ever falls as mine did, you'll remember me whenever you see a traffic light. You never stop at a red lights or stop sign unless there is traffic, especially at night.

At first, police would write you a ticket for not stopping at a red light if they saw you (another way of saying that they will ask for a bribe if they see you pass a red light), but after a few months they realized that nothing could be done, people would rather risk a ticket than risking their lives, so they decided to turn traffic lights to permanent yellow at night, after 8 or 9 PM. This is, of course, very dangerous. Night car accidents are both frequent and brutal since sometimes both cars hit each other at full speed.

MissinLink asked some good questions that might interest others as well, and since we are on the security issue, here they are:

"Do the invaders of homes in the country just drive up in cars or trucks? Do they hide and sneak up? How do these home invaders attack a home in the country? A similar question could be asked for homes in the city."

Sometimes they just drive up to where you are working, if you are far away from the home, but most of the time they sneak up on you. Criminals are not stupid, and they will spend days checking the place and specially YOUR ROUTINE. For example, if they see that you lock the gate at night, as most do, they will wait for you behind a tree until you are close. This is done a lot. Dogs are the best alarm you can find, and criminals know that. They will poison them with pills when you go to sleep and attack the place in the middle of the night. I know of many that had their dogs killed. If they think that security is tight, they will just hide near the main gate, and wait for you to leave or return. When you stop at the gate and must get out of the truck to open/close the main gate, they attack. I'd say that the most frequent kind of attack is attacking by surprise when you enter/leave your home.

"

Beef
03-01-2013, 17:18
Most common times of attack? Day night evening morning? I understand occur when coming or going from ones home, etc."

7 am, 9 am, 1pm 7pm, all are common times for attacks. There is no "safe" hour of the day. Night is particularly dangerous. Maybe attacks during the day are faster, they want to get some money or jewelry and leave fast, while at night they might stay inside more time, maybe till the next day. But there are no fixed patterns. If I could give one advice concerning SHTF security, it would be: Eyes and ears wide open when you enter/leave your home. If possible, keep a gun on your hand when doing either one. If something looks, even "feels strange, then go around the block and check again, carefully. If you see them still there, either call the police (if still available) or get help. If you approach the house with a large number of people they will leave. One time, I saw a couple of strange looking guys at my door. I went round the block and saw them still there. I started flashing the car lights and the horn and they left. I had a gun with me, though, so be careful when trying this. Also, remember that a car is one heavy, powerful piece of machinery. I know a guy that had one of those big chrome-tube bumpers installed on his truck, especially for hitting those that were stupid enough to try and make him stop by standing in front of the car.

If I had a truck, I would do so myself. Though I would keep my mouth shut about it, as always. Just say that you think it looks cool or something. Every now and then someone tries to force me to stop my car by standing in front of it (I suppose there are still fools out there that get robbed this way), in the middle of the street. I just aim at them and accelerate at full speed. They always jump out of the way before I hit them. By the way, at first, doing this made me feel nervous, but can you believe that now it's just common driving, as normal as changing gears? I guess it's a little sad.

Beef
03-01-2013, 17:21
If anyone is interested, I will cut/paste the other parts. Otherwise, I don't want to clog up the thread with info that may be of little value to the forum members. I couldn't get the link to work either and it was cut and paste job, too. Maybe the "private" in the addresss.....?

Peregrino
03-01-2013, 19:53
Beef - You've got me interested enough that I'll fish around and try to find the article from another direction. For the interim don't worry about overloading the thread, we'll deal with it if it becomes an issue. (Interesting how much of your reportage dovetails with information provided in several of the "preparedness" threads we've got in other sub-forums.

Beef
03-01-2013, 21:51
Beef - You've got me interested enough that I'll fish around and try to find the article from another direction. For the interim don't worry about overloading the thread, we'll deal with it if it becomes an issue. (Interesting how much of your reportage dovetails with information provided in several of the "preparedness" threads we've got in other sub-forums.

Yes, it does. This seems like a plausable account of Argentina's problems. I first read that a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, the reporter didn't access to this site and had to figure out and reinvent the wheel. This really validates a lot of the threads that i've read here. BTW:If Snaquebite posted the sound byte version, this is "War and Peace." LOL!

The Reaper
03-02-2013, 10:33
If anyone is interested, I will cut/paste the other parts. Otherwise, I don't want to clog up the thread with info that may be of little value to the forum members. I couldn't get the link to work either and it was cut and paste job, too. Maybe the "private" in the addresss.....?


He posts online under the name "ferfal".

http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/argentina-collapse/

TR

Beef
03-02-2013, 19:24
He posts online under the name "ferfal".

http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/argentina-collapse/

TR

Thanks, TR. I should have known you'd be familar with it. I will bookmark your link. It makes things a whole lot easier! And less space consuming....

Sacamuelas
03-04-2013, 10:24
Nice thread/link . Our "Be prepared" thread is proving to be invaluable information. Nice to see that the information has and still is being used when the SHTF.

Barbarian
06-20-2013, 08:32
He posts online under the name "ferfal".

http://www.survival-spot.com/surviva...tina-collapse/

TR

I sometimes listen to a podcast recorded by a man, by the name of Sam Coffman, who claims to be a former 18D (he may be, I don't know, yet.) Mr. Coffman runs a survival/primitive skills school near San Antonio, Texas.

Long story-short, in Episode 050 and 051 of his podcast "The Human Path," he has a discussion/interview with Fernando Ferfal Aguirre. I found it interesting. I believe Aguirre also had a survival book published, which I plan to look into.


For those who don't use Igadgets, the podcast can be found here:

http://thehumanpath.podbean.com/2011/09/19/050-surviving-the-economy-collapse/

badshot
06-20-2013, 12:03
I'm not sure how I would feel about having a guy watch my back who I just kicked in the nuts.


LOL!

Someone who thinks fast under pressure and wants to win is another view... And has a good sense of humor...

I'd follow ya ZD :D

Team Sergeant
06-20-2013, 15:34
I actually would not want to live near a "doomsday prepper" because if there were some sort of doomsday scenario all they're going to do is "draw fire". The only individuals with a wife and two kids on their own that are going to survive such doomsday scenario is currently living in the jungles of the Amazon or the mountains of Alaska.

You say you have an underground bunker and you have saved 3 years worth of food and water, you're living in a delusional reality. If more than one person was involved in building your "doomsday" bunker, keeping or thinking it is a secret is just plain stupid. Besides that how stupid do you think humans are, think we don't know what an air vent looks like or what it leads to? Unless you plan to live inside of NORRAD with its Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker, than you better have a layered minefield surrounding your property/bunker.

The only way anyone is going to survive a doomsday scenario is to be surrounded by hundreds of like minded individuals. If you live in the big cities that laud their diverseness you're screwed. And unless you're " Snake Plissken (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlIscEyV2UQ)" if it comes down to survival of the fittest your odds of say surviving in NYC, LA or Chicago just took a nosedive.

Those that will survive already live among like minded individuals, the rural communities will do fine and many of those country boys can shoot well enough to defend their own, especially against city slickers. And you're not going to find any rural boys that use the "gangster hold" when engaging adversaries. (Remember what happened during hurricane Katrina, folks in the rural areas held their own while the city of New Orleans fell into complete chaos, chew on that for a while.)

I've seen a couple of episodes of the "Doomsday Preppers" and thought they were quite "entertaining". All of them had me laughing, especially when it came to the "defense" of their home and family. The most entertaining part of the show was the preppers getting a "report card" from other equally delusional preppers.

I'm all about being prepared and having a few weeks of extra food and water is a great idea, but thinking you can hold out against the "zombie apocalypse" alone is just plain stupid. :munchin

Dusty
06-20-2013, 16:29
The only way anyone is going to survive a doomsday scenario is to be surrounded by hundreds of like minded individuals.
I'm all about being prepared and having a few weeks of extra food and water is a great idea, but thinking you can hold out against the "zombie apocalypse" alone is just plain stupid. :munchin

Concur.

I'm not sure what a "doomsday" scenario is, but we've planned for what I expect could happen should the economic and electronic infrastructure disintegrate.

All we did was acquire a state of self-sustainment that our "neighbors" (approximately 4 families per square mile) had attained, in a manner of capability handed down generation to generation.

Everybody is well armed, has their own water and food-producing capabilities, and in most cases can shoot the eye out of a gnat.

The difference between us out here in the campo and the people in the cities is that out here, neighbors actually give a shit about each other to the point of putting the other guy first.

I actually feel sorry for anybody who lives in the city and deludes himself into thinking he's got his "zombie" bases covered.

badshot
06-20-2013, 16:49
Concur.

I'm not sure what a "doomsday" scenario is, but we've planned for what I expect could happen should the economic and electronic infrastructure disintegrate.

All we did was acquire a state of self-sustainment that our "neighbors" (approximately 4 families per square mile) had attained, in a manner of capability handed down generation to generation.

Everybody is well armed, has their own water and food-producing capabilities, and in most cases can shoot the eye out of a gnat.

The difference between us out here in the campo and the people in the cities is that out here, neighbors actually give a shit about each other to the point of putting the other guy first.

I actually feel sorry for anybody who lives in the city and deludes himself into thinking he's got his "zombie" bases covered.

Sounds like true Americans to me.

I enjoy the quiet brought about by no power :)

The Reaper
07-29-2013, 21:02
Good challenge.

Broadsword, have you spent much time in the woods surviving? It isn't like Gilligan's Island.

The first European settlers came to this country with a lot more resources and experience than your group has, and the first colonies died out. Many returned home, if they could. The inexperience of the party will doom most, if not all. Knowledge is not experience. The native Americans were adapted to this terrain, they did subsistence farming and hunting, most migrated depending on the season and resources. Trade was important. There were few domestic livestock. There were no metal tools to speak of, or use of metal beyond gold and other low melting point metals. Life expectancy was maybe 35 years old (for men).

IMHO, there is not enough time to do much beyond making fire and basic tools and gathering edible flora and fauna before winter comes. Your chances would be much better with at least a year's supply of rations, steel tools, weapons, gunpowder, cast iron cookware, cloth, horses, goats and chickens, and a few other necessities. Shelters will be very primitive like lean tos and maybe hogans, and will likely not consist of permanent structures for several years. You cannot boil sufficient quantities of water (50 gallons per day, minimum, for your party) without more technology (metal pots). Bricks and pottery require special clays not found everywhere. You are not likely to do much ironworking or steel making over a wood fire. Much of what you are planning to do requires significant fires. Once you have burned all of the wood in your immediate area, where do you get more and get it to your site? Cordage will be more necessary and important than you think. You will not be able to make paper, glass, or steel. Many people will die without modern medical care. Minor illnesses and injuries will kill people. Primitive childbirth is a very dangerous process for both the mother and the child. Without replacements or modern laundering, your clothing will wear out quickly, and may or may not make it till the first winter. Killing large animals for their fur is also more difficult (and hazardous) than you might imagine.

I would quickly recon the local area and map it. It is important to learn the local language and I would probably move closer to the water, consider saltmaking, fishing, ferrying, charcoal making, cooperage, and maybe trading salt and other items, and medical treatment with modern anatomical and medical knowledge to gather items my people needed. If I had steel tools, I would think about a timber, lumber, and woodworking operation upstream. I would be looking for horses and other domesticated animals, metals, coal, tools, raw resources, etc., and once I was self-sufficient, females of childbearing age, since you will lose most of the ones in your original party and you need the genetic diversity.

If you had more men and weapons, and inferior neighbors, raiding might be a viable alternative. Hey, it worked for Cortez.

I predict at least 50% die off in the first 12 months, and less than 20% likelihood of long-term survival, barring more modern resources or benevolent intervention.

Good luck.

TR

Paslode
07-29-2013, 21:58
Broadsword,

I ain't bashing your post, but after reading it the first thing that came to mind was the movie 'Alive'.

Most people can figure out how to make some sort of shelter, but most people have no clue how obtain water, or how to hunt, or process their kill. Unlike the Outdoor Channel and Pay to Kill ranches you can go days and weeks without seeing a thing. If you get lucky and get to on a killing spree chances are your prey will change their pattern or move.

I am by no means an expert, but I can tell you hunting is hard work (if you really hunt), it is often frustrating and it takes a lot of patience. Without a gun or bow.......it's going to be really rough.


Farming isn't as simple as throwing some seeds in the ground and wala I have food. You must pick crops that will grow in the area, dig up the ground, plant the crop at the proper time and if you do all that correctly you're then at the mercy of mother nature.

If all works in your favor you will have food some months down the road.


I am guessing that if you were thrown in the position as you describe, with 20-30 other people that over half of them won't have skill one, won't pull their weight and will be little more than consumers.

Peregrino
07-29-2013, 22:17
Even in recent historical times, the majority of famine deaths in subsistence communities occurred FEB-MAY. After stored food runs out and before new food is available. The amount of planning and the quantities of food required to ensure survival was prodigious even through WWII across most of the world. It was a full time job for the majority of the population. Today's norms (<1.5% of the population feeding everybody else and exporting surpluses) are only possible as a result of mechanized agriculture; the so called "green revolution" that started in the US in the 50's. As a hint - look at the post nuclear war priorities of the 50s & 60s. Number one was the restoration of modern agriculture and distribution systems sufficient to stave off starvation among a dispersed population. As for your scenario - when every waking moment is dedicated to securing the next meals, it takes centuries to build the infrastructure that supports an idle leisure class that can further the conditions of political stability and economic surplus that engenders the age of enlightenment and the industrial revolution. Hard to get to today from hunter gatherer without following the predictable path. It certainly won't happen either overnight or in several generations even with a full knowledge of what's possible. Too many stepping stones to build required capacity. Each layer creates the pre-conditions for an exponential (ideally, no guarantees of a smooth curve) growth in the next layer.

Barbarian
07-30-2013, 09:52
The big problem with all of this though is how to get the reliable food supply so that there is sufficient time and calories.

Specifically, the problem is "how to survive long enough to get to the point of being well enough equipped to obtain potable water, and a sufficient surplus of food. All of these food gathering chores require tools such as snares, spears, fish traps, shovels, picks, axes, hoes (;)) and cutting tools. Cutting tools cannot just be pounded out of stone. It takes certain types of stone which may or may not be available in the area the party settles in. Then it must be located and mined or collected. Then it takes the skill and time to knap the blades and attach them.

Long term survival is dependent on playing the odds. Hunting, fishing, farming, traps, and foraging- none of these will provide enough food on their own. You would have to do all of these simultaneously and constantly. You can realistically expect over half of these to have failed at each gathering attempt. Then you have the requisite work after having success.

Game must be carried to camp and processed. It takes hours of hard work to get from dead animal to smoked meat. Tanning hides takes several hours of work per hide and then more work for several days afterward. Edible plants require cleaning, sorting, and separating edible parts from inedible. All of this must happen while making repairs on shelters, maintaining hygiene, keeping firewood, providing defense, tending wounded, etc. Once the party seems to be getting themselves established, local resources will be running low and it will be time to move camp.


I like your challenge. Heck of a handicap, though. I think steam engines are a matter for another day.

chance
11-06-2013, 14:22
Has anyone seen the newest Doomsday Prepper show? There's an guy on there named Mike Evock that said he spent 16 years in Special Forces, I'm just curious if he was tabbed or support.

Max_Tab
11-06-2013, 14:29
Has anyone seen the newest Doomsday Prepper show? There's an guy on there named Mike Evock that said he spent 16 years in Special Forces, I'm just curious if he was tabbed or support.

LMAO, I'm watching this episode right now.

rdret1
11-06-2013, 14:35
I saw it last night and came on here today to try to find some information about him. I see I was beat to the punch. I have the same questions.

chance
11-06-2013, 15:02
Yea, I did a search for his name on here and came up with nothing also.

rdret1
11-06-2013, 15:03
I just looked him up on FB https://www.facebook.com/michael.evock?fref=ts This appears to be his son's site. I don't see any links for him.

rdret1
11-06-2013, 17:12
As far as Mike Evock is concerned, I just learned he was verified 7th Grp. He is legit.

Papa Zero Three
11-06-2013, 17:53
Has anyone seen the newest Doomsday Prepper show? There's an guy on there named Mike Evock that said he spent 16 years in Special Forces, I'm just curious if he was tabbed or support.


I worked with Mike, he is tabbed and legit as they come.