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Audacus
02-28-2013, 11:55
Special Forces Soldiers are seemingly those of humbling origin. However, it can be said that there is a considerable amount of ambition in order to achieve all that they do.

To direct questions at the enlisted QP's;

If you leave before your commitment, in order to pursue OCS or some other form of personal advancement, did your brothers in your community support you or did they feel the latter of that equation?

I have heard that some groups or detachments won't allow you to have your long tab on your uniform if you do not stay in group for six years or later which is the only reason why I would even consider to suggest that the band of brothers that special forces is would even feel the way described in the above question.

I have read in this forum, and other accredited resources, that 18A's only stay with their ODA for 1-2 years so I understand why any 18 series enlisted man pursuing officer-ship to come back to his old unit would not be a very strong argument to leave his buddies.

Thank you for your service.

Team Sergeant
02-28-2013, 12:03
It depends on what you want to do.

If you want to be in the field on an A-Team you go enlisted or SF Warrant Officer.

Many Sr. SF NCO's become SF Warrant Officers (180A) just to stay in the field and on an A-Team.

Again, it all depends on what you want to do. That said once you join SF very few "leave".

Dozer523
02-28-2013, 12:14
. . . I have heard that some groups or detachments won't allow you to have your long tab on your uniform if you do not stay in group for six years or later which is the only reason why I would even consider to suggest that the band of brothers that Special Forces is would even feel the way described in the above question. . . . I fixed that for you.
As for who tells one if and when they can wear the Tab they earned at USAJFKSWCS, it isn't the Group or Team's call. That is the height of arrogance. Someone at Group wants to change the standard all they need is a 2187; I'm sure their request for transfer to SWC will be approved.
Be more judicious in who you listen to.

Joker
03-01-2013, 04:16
Officers, WOs, and NCOs in SF get to do the cool guy stuff while they are on the ODAs. When you go to the ODBs the game is much different and as well as on the Bn staff. The farther one gets from the teams the greater the suck.

I know, and work with on a daily basis, officers that were SF NCOs that went the Officer route and continue to wear their SF tab outside of the SF branch (they are not 18As). They have earned it. The only instances, that I personally know of, of someone getting their tab revoked was due to continuing misconduct and them bringing great shame on themselves, SF, and the Army.

I do know Officers, WOs, and NCOs that left SF because of a myriad of reasons, all on good terms, and still wear their SF tab.

Your source appears to be full of baloney sandwiches.

CDRODA396
03-01-2013, 05:11
I have heard that some groups or detachments won't allow you to have your long tab on your uniform if you do not stay in group for six years or later which is the only reason why I would even consider to suggest that the band of brothers that special forces is would even feel the way described in the above question.


You probably heard something along the lines of this....


(9) Special Forces Tab. Special Forces Tab may be revoked by the awarding authority (Commander, U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center) if the recipient-
(a) Has his or her Parachutist Badge revoked.
(b) Initiates action which results in termination or withdrawal of the Special Forces specialty or branch code prior to completing 36 months of Special Forces duty. Requests for advanced schooling which may lead to another specialty or branch code being awarded instead of Special Forces will not be used as a basis for revocation of the tab.

What I find interesting about this is, the 15 Sep 2011 rapid revision to the reg includes "his or her" in para (a) regarding the SF Tab... :confused:

Richard
03-01-2013, 06:34
What I find interesting about this is, the 15 Sep 2011 rapid revision to the reg includes "his or her" in para (a) regarding the SF Tab... :confused:

Army-wide it is "his/her" for the Parachutist Badge, but for the SF Tab it could apply to 'former' guys like Schroer and Antonelli so it does make sense - well, in a kinda sorta way. :rolleyes:

As far as pulling one's qual for acceptance to a career progression program like OCS, WOC, etc - I never saw it.

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

LongWire
03-01-2013, 14:46
Not sure why you would want to go through all the training and qualification to get to an ODA and then leave before your time in pursuit of something else. What are you striving for? Ambition and aspirations are good to have, but time goes by quickly especially now days.

If and when you get to a team, I'd try it out for awhile. You may find that your priorities may change. YMMV.........

Surgicalcric
03-02-2013, 09:31
Not sure why you would want to go through all the training and qualification to get to an ODA and then leave before your time in pursuit of something else....

Padding of a resume is one reason that comes to mind.

Crip

LongWire
03-02-2013, 11:19
Padding of a resume is one reason that comes to mind.

Crip

Yeah Brother, I get that, it just doesn't pass my BS detector.

One thing at a time!!!!

blue02hd
03-02-2013, 15:18
Maybe I'm wrong, but normally "Leaving before your commitment is over"= fired.

Never in my 12 plus years in SF seen anyone leave early unless it was under negative circumstance. OCS? You won't have a chance at an OCS board until you have more then the minimal Group time. I think the poster is misinformed.

What am I missing here?

Joker
03-02-2013, 17:02
Maybe I'm wrong, but normally "Leaving before your commitment is over"= fired.

Never in my 12 plus years in SF seen anyone leave early unless it was under negative circumstance. OCS? You won't have a chance at an OCS board until you have more then the minimal Group time. I think the poster is misinformed.

What am I missing here?

I believe his source is full of male bovine excrement.

Audacus
03-03-2013, 10:08
I think there may have been a misconception with the post that I previously made.

Yes, I am pursuing a 18x contract, I am graduating from Texas A&M in May and I have been in AROTC for four years, so it would have made sense to be an officer right? (although its not uncommon for cadets here at A&M to get out of AROTC and become Special Forces soldiers, there have been around five or ten guys every year that go for it and it is also mentioned in the book "Chosen Soldier". (an SF book written by a SEAL sounds so strange to me))

However, I decided not to commission as a 2LT because I felt that I can pursue a real dream for me in Special Forces. If I wanted to "pad my resume" than I would have stuck with an avenue of approach that gave me a greater opportunity to be a higher rank.

Now the notion of someone losing their "long tab" from leaving their group was first addressed to me from a 18A in Ft. Bragg who was getting certified for something to do with doing inventory with a private companies and he was in the class with my wife who is stationed there, but that is hardly the main point of the question that I posted and I only used that information as credibility in my post.

I know for a fact that soldiers go to OCS from Special Forces after four or five years, because I've talked to some of the soldiers that changed branches completely (to infantry),and it mentions career paths in a lot of Special Forces books such as Masters of Chaos.

I feel that the option to do that would be available to me IF I make it through the rigorous test that is SFAS, I think the first thing one of the A&M grads said to me that also went that route (he got selected last November as an 18D learning Chinese) was "Just know the training only gets harder after you get selected"

Just because it was AVAILABLE however, does not mean that is what I want to do. Y'all are right, I have no idea what group is like or if I'm going to stay with my unit for 20 years. My wife wanted to know If it was possible to go to OCS after or before my commitment, but before I would be even consider that option, the last thing I would want to do is burn bridges with the ODA.

I understand that many of you feel that I am rushing my thought process and I should only be focused on the 50m target or whatever form or fashion that you are going to throw that analogy at me, just know that I am focused and this question is to make my wife at peace. This information is pertinent for her location for her Grad School as a Physician's Assistant. Due to the requirements, what y'all say may change her course of action immediately.

You gentlemen, are a resource, not the selection board (unless some of you are on the selection board), so that is why I am coming to you. I'm asking for help and you all are literally 1000+ years of Special Forces experience. Trust me when I say that when I am given an order from the people directly above me in my chain of command I will try my best to pull a "Message to Garcia".

But for now I would like to know if going to OCS after YEARS in an ODA will burn bridges with your unit. (I also understand the age limit for OCS)


Again, Thank You For Your Service

Joker
03-03-2013, 10:44
...But for now I would like to know if going to OCS after YEARS in an ODA will burn bridges with your unit. (I also understand the age limit for OCS)

No. SF always needs good Officers and if you are a good NCO who goes that route and comes back, fantastic.

hotshot
03-03-2013, 11:03
I think there may have been a misconception with the post that I previously made.

Yes, I am pursuing a 18x contract, I am graduating from Texas A&M in May and I have been in AROTC for four years, so it would have made sense to be an officer right? (although its not uncommon for cadets here at A&M to get out of AROTC and become Special Forces soldiers, there have been around five or ten guys every year that go for it and it is also mentioned in the book "Chosen Soldier". (an SF book written by a SEAL sounds so strange to me))

However, I decided not to commission as a 2LT because I felt that I can pursue a real dream for me in Special Forces. If I wanted to "pad my resume" than I would have stuck with an avenue of approach that gave me a greater opportunity to be a higher rank.

Now the notion of someone losing their "long tab" from leaving their group was first addressed to me from a 18A in Ft. Bragg who was getting certified for something to do with doing inventory with a private companies and he was in the class with my wife who is stationed there, but that is hardly the main point of the question that I posted and I only used that information as credibility in my post.

I know for a fact that soldiers go to OCS from Special Forces after four or five years, because I've talked to some of the soldiers that changed branches completely (to infantry),and it mentions career paths in a lot of Special Forces books such as Masters of Chaos.


I feel that the option to do that would be available to me IF I make it through the rigorous test that is SFAS, I think the first thing one of the A&M grads said to me that also went that route (he got selected last November as an 18D learning Chinese) was "Just know the training only gets harder after you get selected"

Just because it was AVAILABLE however, does not mean that is what I want to do. Y'all are right, I have no idea what group is like or if I'm going to stay with my unit for 20 years. My wife wanted to know If it was possible to go to OCS after or before my commitment, but before I would be even consider that option, the last thing I would want to do is burn bridges with the ODA.

I understand that many of you feel that I am rushing my thought process and I should only be focused on the 50m target or whatever form or fashion that you are going to throw that analogy at me, just know that I am focused and this question is to make my wife at peace. This information is pertinent for her location for her Grad School as a Physician's Assistant. Due to the requirements, what y'all say may change her course of action immediately.

You gentlemen, are a resource, not the selection board (unless some of you are on the selection board), so that is why I am coming to you. I'm asking for help and you all are literally 1000+ years of Special Forces experience. Trust me when I say that when I am given an order from the people directly above me in my chain of command I will try my best to pull a "Message to Garcia".

But for now I would like to know if going to OCS after YEARS in an ODA will burn bridges with your unit. (I also understand the age limit for OCS)

Again, Thank You For Your Service


First, I doubt your Commander at the time will recommend you for OCS if you have not fulfilled your SF commitment.

I personally know 4 SF guys who have recently done this (OCS/Green to Gold). All of them had at least 5 years on an ODA and 2-3 years as an instructor in SWCS. IMHO, the only way you will "burn bridges" is if you leave on a sour note. But as I mentioned above, I highly doubt you will get the necessary command support if you are a dirt bag.

Things to consider with your decision. You may not want to leave SF to become an O; it seems that it is more important for your wife that you go to OCS than it is for you. Like one of the QP's mentioned above, you also have an Option to apply for Warrant Officer and stay on an ODA longer after you gain more experience.

It seems like you have unclear expectations and are trying to choreograph too far in advance. It does not seem logical to me, that after all of your efforts that you will not just pursue the officer route and when eligible apply for SF. I do respect your decision to go SF and if you so choose, you will be a better officer one day, IMO.

KISS-Keep it simple stupid
- Apply for 18X and become the best 18B, C, D, E possible. Serve with honor on an ODA, you will know later (if not sooner) if SF is what you want to do long term or what options you have at the time if you so choose (OCS, WO, etc).

- Become the best LT that you can be, serve with honor in your profession. When available, make the next decision available to you (SF......etc)

Lastly, we cannot make these decisions for you. It doesn't matter how many years of collective experience we have. Come up with your own decision matrix, insert constants and variables, and make a decision.

Good luck,

CH

Mike
09-02-2013, 09:33
There never has no ever will be a humble person in the US Army Special Forces.

That trait, is in fact, a disqualifier.

spottedmedic111
10-22-2013, 19:56
One of my medic classmates applied to the PA program immediately following SFQC graduation and got selected only a few months after his first assignment. He wasn't the first to do that and no one mentioned he should lose his tab. The rules for PA school changed shortly thereafter, but I'll never forget big Jim!