View Full Version : Distinguished Warfare Medal
BMT (RIP)
02-13-2013, 13:21
A recognition of the evolving 21st Century warfare, the medal will be considered a bit higher in ranking than the Bronze Star, but is lower than the Silver Star, defense officials said
http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-creates-medal-cyber-drone-wars-165609753--politics.html
:munchin
BMT
So I suppose emailing AQ a picture of your finger will count.
Love the comment: "design it with a joystick on it."
It's actually the "Distinguished Warfare Medal" not the "Defense Distinguished Service Medal"
No, this is great....really. I mean if you earn your Combat Videoman Badge and you can't get a valor award, what's the point. This is restitution for all of those POGs, I mean professional steely eyed killers who manned the missile silos of NORAD all those years. Seriously, though, the drone operators and their gear have advanced warfare to a level that was unthought of when I joined up in 1974. They have taken out dozens of HVTs and provided "eyes on" in places no one else could. But I do think that creating a new class of decoration is not needed. We have AAM, ARCOM, MSM, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit and even DSM that are respected non combat awards. They could easily fill the bill.
Streck-Fu
02-13-2013, 13:58
They have taken out dozens of HVTs and provided "eyes on" in places no one else could.
But with no personal physical risk.
Is this a career enhancement award created for non-combat officers?
But with no personal physical risk.
Did they do their job, and do it well?
But with no personal physical risk.
Is this a career enhancement award created for non-combat officers?
Maybe it is simply recognition for what they have contributed to the war effort.
This may be news to you, but these guys are the read headed step children of the AF. Although I do not think they deserve Air Medals, etc, they do a kick ass job. I know many a combat troop that have their lives, thanks to the job these folks do.
When did it become OK to denegrate the service of ANYONE who has worn the uniform of this great nation? They may not be in harms way, but they most certainly are in the fight.
Streck-Fu
02-13-2013, 14:10
Did they do their job, and do it well?
No doubt I'm sure but to place a new medal involving zero personal risk above the Bronze Star strikes me as a little ambitious. I do not question their contribution, just the need to create a new medal for such a narrow application.
This may be news to you, but these guys are the read headed step children of the AF.
It is not news to me. It may said they are the red headed step children of the military as a whole. However, I am not trying to diminish their contribution, merely questioning the need to create a new medal, especially above the Bronze Star.
No doubt I'm sure but to place a new medal involving zero personal risk above the Bronze Star strikes me as a little ambitious.
If we were talking about a Bronze Star with Valor, I would agree.
Airbornelawyer
02-13-2013, 14:17
It's actually the "Distinguished Warfare Medal" not the "Defense Distinguished Service Medal"
Thanks. Title of thread now fixed.
Streck-Fu
02-13-2013, 14:27
If we were talking about a Bronze Star with Valor, I would agree.
Considering that the Bronze Star was created as an award for ground troops in general and Infantry in particular after the creation of the Air Medal for the aviation officers, I don't think the conditions for comparison need to be limited to V device.
Considering that the Bronze Star was created as an award for ground troops in general and Infantry in particular after the creation of the Air Medal for the aviation officers, I don't think the conditions for comparison need to be limited to V device.
The Bronze Star (wihtout V) has turned into an MSM in a warzone. Not saying I agree with it, because I don't. But there it is.
Streck-Fu
02-13-2013, 14:44
Especially for drone pilots (whom take the lion share of jokes here in my office) why can't the Air Medal suffice?
The Bronze Star (wihtout V) has turned into an MSM in a warzone. Not saying I agree with it, because I don't. But there it is.
Only because I remember hearing about it, but there have a few times the AF has caught fire for awarding Bronze Star Medals. Late 90s and couple of years ago, if I remember correctly. I wouldn't be surprised if all services are guilty but I remember hearing/reading about the AF.
Divemaster
02-13-2013, 14:46
The Bronze Star (wihtout V) has turned into an MSM in a warzone. Not saying I agree with it, because I don't. But there it is.
That's exactly what it is and is how I look at mine. They were pretty much handed out to those of us in leadership positions, but I had to fight tooth and nail to get them for a couple of my guys who deserved them.
That's exactly what it is and is how I look at mine. They were pretty much handed out to those of us in leadership positions, but I had to fight tooth and nail to get them for a couple of my guys who deserved them.
I know what you mean. My husband was a Maj and got one with a V device, which was greatly warranted. But we had a Lt Col that railed about it, because he as an O-5 didn't get one. Never mind the fact he was in the CAOC with me, and the closest we got to combat was thinking ONCE a scud was coming our way. I had to listen to that bullshit for over 6 months.
When did it become OK to denegrate the service of ANYONE who has worn the uniform of this great nation? They may not be in harms way, but they most certainly are in the fight.
That was not the intent of my comment as well. We all have our jobs that we do for basic pay and benefits. IMO there is already sufficient means for recognizing those that go above and beyond in all fields.
Especially for drone pilots (whom take the lion share of jokes here in my office) why can't the Air Medal suffice?
Only because I remember hearing about it, but there have a few times the AF has caught fire for awarding Bronze Star Medals. Late 90s and couple of years ago, if I remember correctly. I wouldn't be surprised if all services are guilty but I remember hearing/reading about the AF.
Because the air medal is for being in harm's way. We have seen time after time, new awards/medals designed based on the times. To me this is the same thing, this is the first war we have fought where drones were a)involved, b) a game changer in some respects.
All I see is DoD trying to recognize that. It isn't taking something away from anyone else, it is simply recognizing the service of a new breed of "warriors".
Streck-Fu
02-13-2013, 15:05
Maybe I'm old school but I have a hard time associating 'warrior' to drone pilots and cyber/software types. That's a rhetorical statement..
I refereed my copy of the SECNAVINST 1610 (I don't have other services' awards manuals) and it states:
Air Medal: "For heroic (or meritorious) achievement in aerial flight ..."
There are provisions for awarding for action as part of a strike or flight as well as Individual Action and Individual Action with a V.
That is why I thought it could cover almost any achievement of the UAV pilots.
But new wars do sometimes call for new awards.
Maybe I'm old school but I have a hard time associating 'warrior' to drone pilots and cyber/software types. That's a rhetorical statement..
I refereed my copy of the SECNAVINST 1610 (I don't have other services' awards manuals) and it states:
There are provisions for awarding for action as part of a strike or flight as well as Individual Action and Individual Action with a V.
That is why I thought it could cover almost any achievement of the UAV pilots.
But new wars do sometimes call for new awards.
Much like other services have a "warrior" class, so does the AF. And I am sure a big part of the reason UAV pilots are not awarded air medals, is because they are seen as being of a "lesser" class.
Streck-Fu
02-13-2013, 15:18
I do not put them in different class. I believe the threshold for certain medals and devices needs to involve personal risk.
The UAV pilot community took a beating when the reports of their 'stress' levels made the national circuit...LINK (http://www.npr.org/2011/12/19/143926857/report-high-levels-of-burnout-in-u-s-drone-pilots)....LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/19/world/asia/air-force-drone-operators-show-high-levels-of-stress.html).....LINK (http://techcrunch.com/2008/08/09/pilots-of-predator-drones-suffering-ptsd/)
AR 600-8-22, page 40
3–13. Soldier’s Medal
a. The Soldier’s Medal, section 3750, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 3750) was established by Act of Congress 2 July 1926 amended 10 USC 3750.
b. The Soldier’s Medal is awarded to any person of the Armed Forces of the United States or of a friendly foreign nation who, while serving in any capacity with the Army of the United States, including Reserve Component Soldiers not serving in a duty status, as defined in 10 USC 101(d), at the time of the heroic act, who distinguished himself or herself by heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy. The same degree of heroism is required as that of the award of the Distinguished Flying Cross. The performance must have involved personal hazard or danger and the voluntary risk of life under conditions not involving conflict with an armed enemy. Awards will not be made solely on the basis of having saved a life.
So why do we need a new medal??
When are we gonna start recognizing Airsofters with medals?
So why do we need a new medal??
To paraphrase something I heard as a kid, and have yet to find a source to pin it on, “Give me a bolt of ribbon and an ingot of gold and I will vanquish any enemy.” ;)
Pat
I find this new award problematic because it helps to legitimize further the notion that there has been a RMA--a fourth generation of warfare.
IMO, it is that very line of thinking that has led the United States to have so many issues IRT GWOT. Soldiers on the ground--not drones in the skies-- win wars.
YMMV.
Team Sergeant
02-13-2013, 16:50
But with no personal physical risk.
Is this a career enhancement award created for non-combat officers?
How many are combat arms compared to non-combat arms? Pretty hign number, what like over 90%?
But I definitely agree with your second point.......
afchic we already have medals that cover a broad spectrum of doing good deeds in the military. I refer back to what Strect-fu posted about "officers". Why design a medal that only a "few" can "earn" while sitting on their asses? :rolleyes:
Airbornelawyer
02-13-2013, 16:50
AR 600-8-22, page 40
3–13. Soldier’s Medal
a. The Soldier’s Medal, section 3750, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 3750) was established by Act of Congress 2 July 1926 amended 10 USC 3750.
b. The Soldier’s Medal is awarded to any person of the Armed Forces of the United States or of a friendly foreign nation who, while serving in any capacity with the Army of the United States, including Reserve Component Soldiers not serving in a duty status, as defined in 10 USC 101(d), at the time of the heroic act, who distinguished himself or herself by heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy. The same degree of heroism is required as that of the award of the Distinguished Flying Cross. The performance must have involved personal hazard (eg: coffee latte spiled on keyboard) or danger and the voluntary risk of life under conditions not involving conflict with an armed enemy. (eg: no more ring-dings in vending machine) Awards will not be made solely on the basis of having saved a life.
So why do we need a new medal??
The Soldier's Medal and its equivalents in the other services are not remotely comparable to this award. The Soldier's Medal is an award for heroism. Comparing the hazards required for it to "coffee latte spilled on keyboard" is an insult to its recipients, as well to the many soldiers who were turned down for the award, and given a Commendation or Achievement Medal, or nothing at all, because all they did was merely save someone's life.
Monsoon65
02-13-2013, 17:00
There are provisions for awarding for action as part of a strike or flight as well as Individual Action and Individual Action with a V.
That is why I thought it could cover almost any achievement of the UAV pilots.
Nope.
I have a dog in this fight. I'm am, or at least was until July 2012, a career aviator.
Why should UAV operators get an Air Medal when they don't fly? My aircraft gets shot down, they shovel my remains into a rubber bag and tell my wife and kids "sorry about that".
They crash a UAV and it's, "Damn.....hey, who wants to go to Burger King? Or at least stop by the BX for some Diet Cokes and Twizzlers?"
Do they have a tough job? I don't know. Might be tough for some, easy for others. I'd have loved to have had a chance to give it a try.
But do they deserve an Air Medal? No way. For doing their job above and beyond, that's why they have AFCM, etc.
People don't want to see the Bronze Star cheapened, and I sure don't want to see the Air Medal dragged thru the mud, either.
Monsoon65
02-13-2013, 17:02
To paraphrase something I heard as a kid, and have yet to find a source to pin it on, “Give me a bolt of ribbon and an ingot of gold and I will vanquish any enemy.” ;)
Pat
I believe Napoleon said that. Or something along those lines.
Chairborne64
02-13-2013, 17:04
This is crazy. There are PLENTY of medals right now that can be given to a UAV operator who does a good job. What is wrong with a MSM or a DMSM if in a joint command? :mad:
Mr Furious
02-13-2013, 17:06
I am just not getting the justification for placing this in the order of precedence higher than a Soldiers Medal, BSM (with V or without), and PH. This medal is immediately below the DFC in order of precedence. I don’t get that at all.
Team Sergeant
02-13-2013, 17:14
I am just not getting the justification for placing this in the order of precedence higher than a Soldiers Medal, BSM (with V or without), and PH. This medal is immediately below the DFC in order of precedence. I don’t get that at all.
Promotion points............
This is crazy. There are PLENTY of medals right now that can be given to a UAV operator who does a good job. What is wrong with a MSM or a DMSM if in a joint command? :mad:
My point,exactly. Make a "Drone Device" like the C-47 device that was worn on the Berlin Airlift Medal if they want to make a special statement. They can stick that on any existing medal.
Airbornelawyer
02-13-2013, 17:21
The Bronze Star (wihtout V) has turned into an MSM in a warzone. Not saying I agree with it, because I don't. But there it is.
Actually, the chronology is reversed. The MSM was created specifically to stop awards of the Bronze Star for merit away from the combat zone. Both the MSM and the Bronze Star for Merit have been degraded over the years, especially for officers, where they are practically treated like junior officer good conduct medals.
The problem (and though I say "the" the fact is that there are many problems) with the US military awards system, which we have discussed here before, is the lack of a clear distinction between peacetime and wartime awards except for certain decorations such as the highest valor awards. Of course, the lack of a clear distinction in the world we live in between peacetime and wartime, and between the war zone and the "rear", only contributes to the problem.
As originally conceived, the MSM should be what this new award is. But the MSM, created during the Vietnam years to replace BSMs for merit in the "rear", became just another common peacetime PCS/ETS/merit award, especially for officers and NCOs of certain ranks. And similarly, outside of valor awards with the "V", there is no way to distinguish peacetime ARCOMs from wartime ones. So a sergeant who effectively leads his squad in a combat tour may expect the same merit award as the sergeant who effectively manages the property book in Fort Wherever before PCSing to his next desk job.
Because we have no real way to distinguish wartime MSMs and ARCOMs from peacetime ones, there is often pressure to upgrade them to BSMs, since the BSM is the lowest award specifically requiring enemy action. This contributes to the degradation of the BSM for Merit, and still doesn't address the problem. So there is pressure to create yet more medals to fill niches where the current awards don't seem right.
The best solution would be to stop giving out so many peacetime medals, and tighten the criteria for awards like the BSM and MSM, but I don't think that's feasible at this point. We did do something similar in the interwar years, when the Navy stopped awarding the Navy Cross for merit or for bravery not before the enemy. Many WW1 Navy Crosses were for meritorious service, and the Navy Cross then ranked after the Navy DSM, and many interwar Navy Crosses were given to salvage divers. This is why the Soldier's Medal and the Navy and Marine Corps Medal were created, for non-combat heroism.
As I have written here before, I think there is a second-best solution, certainly better than creating even more poorly designed medals so our officers can look like North Korean generals on parade. This would be to create a true "combat distiguishing device", separate from the "V", so that you could clearly distinguish wartime merit awards from peacetime ones. The example I have cited is the Austro-Hungarian Empire, where a wreath known as the Kriegsdekoration was added to certain decorations to distinguish wartime awards, and crossed swords on the decoration or its ribbon could further distinguish valor awards. The Kingdom of Bulgaria had a similar practice. Prussia and other German states also had their own systems (read my book coming out next year for more boring details and pretty pictures). The Bundeswehr recently did something similar, creating special devices for the ribbon and patterns for the cross for its Ehrenzeichen der Bundeswehr, rather than creating entirely new awards.
FirstClass
02-13-2013, 17:54
I would think that a Skill Badge would be a more appropriate solution? What choices do Drone Pilots make themselves that would distinguish them otherwise? Has anyone witnessed a Drone Operation that can shed some light on how this award would hypothetically be awarded?
Did they do their job, and do it well?
Bronze Star medals are only awarded in a combat zone.
BSM/V are awarded for specific valourous acts below that of a Silver Star.
There is risk involved, death, serious wounding.
Giving a higher award to a skilled video gamer that risks nothing personally other than his/her efficiency report is a serious degradation of the award given to actual combat troops. A rather nice Fuck You.
Gender norming, sexual norming and now we are going to award non combat participants at a higher level than combat soldiers so they feel wanted?
They may be great folks but I've watched soldiers die and get a BSM for meritorius service with their Purple Heart.
This is total bullshit.
Snaquebite
02-13-2013, 20:26
I have read in other forums where some of these "drone flyers" are claiming PTSD and getting disability for it. Not confirmed.
Snaquebite
02-13-2013, 20:27
Bronze Star medals are only awarded in a combat zone.
BSM/V are awarded for specific valourous acts below that of a Silver Star.
There is risk involved, death, serious wounding.
Giving a higher award to a skilled video gamer that risks nothing personally other than his/her efficiency report is a serious degradation of the award given to actual combat troops. A rather nice Fuck You.
Gender norming, sexual norming and now we are going to award non combat participants at a higher level than combat soldiers so they feel wanted?
They may be great folks but I've watched soldiers die and get a BSM for meritorius service with their Purple Heart.
This is total bullshit.
100% agree CSM.
Streck-Fu
02-13-2013, 20:32
I have read in other forums where some of these "drone flyers" are claiming PTSD and getting disability for it. Not confirmed.
I posted a few of those articles in post #21 responding to afchic.
The UAV pilot community took a beating when the reports of their 'stress' levels made the national circuit...LINK (http://www.npr.org/2011/12/19/143926857/report-high-levels-of-burnout-in-u-s-drone-pilots)....LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/19/world/asia/air-force-drone-operators-show-high-levels-of-stress.html).....LINK (http://techcrunch.com/2008/08/09/pilots-of-predator-drones-suffering-ptsd/)
If some members of the community of drone "operators" suffer from PTSD, should the discussions over the legitimacy of their suffering dovetail into discussions about the legitimacy of the new award?
My concern is that some Americans will use moments of uncertainty to dismiss the mental health issues of OEF/OIF veterans.
Bronze Star medals are only awarded in a combat zone.
BSM/V are awarded for specific valourous acts below that of a Silver Star.
There is risk involved, death, serious wounding.
Giving a higher award to a skilled video gamer that risks nothing personally other than his/her efficiency report is a serious degradation of the award given to actual combat troops. A rather nice Fuck You.
Gender norming, sexual norming and now we are going to award non combat participants at a higher level than combat soldiers so they feel wanted?
They may be great folks but I've watched soldiers die and get a BSM for meritorius service with their Purple Heart.
This is total bullshit.
I agree with you, as far as where this award will fall in terms of prominence. As far as a new medal, in an of itself, I don't have a problem with it.
Snaquebite
02-13-2013, 20:44
Thanks Streck...
The Reaper
02-13-2013, 20:50
The Bronze Star was developed as the ground version of the Air Medal, which came first.
It cannot be awarded for aerial action.
"....has distinguished, herself or himself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight...."
The AF does however, relatively routinely issue Silver Stars to pilots for aerial action such as providing air support, etc.
I personally think this award is pure and unadulterated bullshit for people playing glorified video games with no personal risk.
Plenty of MSMs, DMSMs, AFCOMs etc. for the drone pilots, not sure why a medal ranking higher than a Bronze Star was viewed as warranted. Probably a morale issue among the drivers.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
Divemaster
02-13-2013, 22:48
I blame Stars & Stripes. I remember reading this article while sitting on my butt in Iraq on my cushy contractor job:
The war room: Daily transition between battle, home takes a toll on drone operators
http://www.stripes.com/news/the-war-room-daily-transition-between-battle-home-takes-a-toll-on-drone-operators-1.95949
The article was interesting. The comments that Stars & Stripes published over the next week from combat arms folks were more so.
Divemaster
02-14-2013, 00:57
Maybe they'll finally implement the Courageous Restraint Medal as well.
medic&commo
02-14-2013, 01:12
I am just not getting the justification for placing this in the order of precedence higher than a Soldiers Medal, BSM (with V or without), and PH. This medal is immediately below the DFC in order of precedence. I don’t get that at all.
In today's PC military, with all the recent changes, perhaps it was a means to make drone operators feel like "part of the team"?
They had no way of ever earning a wartime award in that MOS field, so...
m&c
Airbornelawyer
02-14-2013, 14:06
In a funny coincidence, this skit was on Comedy Central's The Kroll Show last night:
Drones:
When the world needs a hero
they look up to the sky
then look back down
to the guy
sitting at the computer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF1mx-Dcek8
In a funny coincidence,
I suspect we will see lots of pointy little jock-jokes about this abomination..
Unfortunately,, the suits at the top will ignore the hue-n-cry.. :mad:
Richard post this a couple yrs ago,, they didn't hear it then, nor will they now.. :rolleyes:
Badger52
02-14-2013, 16:42
Whew, exhale.
The Good: At first thought I'd hit Duffel Blog by mistake; glad I wasn't seeing things.
The Bad: the rest of this bs.
Did Panetta create an award he can give potus for the ben laden hit??
VFW slams Pentagon's drone medal, complains it would outrank Purple Heart
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/14/medal-misfire-pentagon-new-off-site-medal/.
Streck-Fu
02-14-2013, 20:34
Is this who they had in mind? LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF1mx-Dcek8)
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the first recipient of the Distinguished Warfare Medal.
For conspicuous gallantry above and beyond while playing Call of Duty (Black Ops II), he completed the game twice in one night while only finishing one bag of Cheetos. When he ran precariously low on Dr. Pepper, he waddled upstairs from his parent's basement without pausing the game, causing his character to die twice before he returned. Despite this tragedy, he pushed forward and finished the game.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the first recipient of the Distinguished Warfare Medal.
For conspicuous gallantry above and beyond while playing Call of Duty (Black Ops II), he completed the game twice in one night while only finishing one bag of Cheetos. When he ran precariously low on Dr. Pepper, he waddled upstairs from his parent's basement without pausing the game, causing his character to die twice before he returned. Despite this tragedy, he pushed forward and finished the game.
This is EXACTLY what I said no one has the right to denegrate the service of ANYONE who willingly puts on the Uniform to defend our country.
You may not like the medal, and that is fine, but don't make fun of those that wear the uniform. I wonder how many on here benefitted from their service? Is that a joke to you as well?
Yes I have my panties in a wad. I know a lot of these guys. My brother has twice commanded UAV squadrons and I know how hard he and his folks work. They know what they do keeps you all safe, so they take it seriously. I wish the same could be said of some of you, in return.
Thank you, afchic.
Richard :munchin
Streck-Fu
02-15-2013, 07:04
post...
I don't believe any one is genuinely denigrating the service of others. I read it as expressing opinions on a new medal that doesn't seem to be really needed.
The commentary toward the UAV pilots in particular is not meant to be derogatory and is no different than any other inter-service banter; even on this board.
My office is mostly prior service with every branch but the Coast Guard represented with several current Guard members (two are deployed now). We have a former Army LTC tanker, Marine LTC tanker, Marine Infantry Major, 3 Apache pilots, AF LTC, and couple dozen retired enlisted types and the opinion of the new medal is almost universally the same as expressed here.
All that said, I don't see any intentional maliciousness.
I don't believe any one is genuinely denigrating the service of others. I read it as expressing opinions on a new medal that doesn't seem to be really needed.
The commentary toward the UAV pilots in particular is not meant to be derogatory and is no different than any other inter-service banter; even on this board.
My office is mostly prior service with every branch but the Coast Guard represented with several current Guard members (two are deployed now). We have a former Army LTC tanker, Marine LTC tanker, Marine Infantry Major, 3 Apache pilots, AF LTC, and couple dozen retired enlisted types and the opinion of the new medal is almost universally the same as expressed here.
All that said, I don't see any intentional maliciousness.
My angst is not so much about the medal, but the fact that some of you think what they do is a joke. How many times in this forum when a.poser is identified, that also happens to be someone in the military do many on here say they shoukd be proud of what they do, and not inflate it. But then some of those same people go on to take pot shots at those they see as being "less than" others.
Like I have said 3 or 4 times previously, think what you want of the medal itself, but respect these folks for their contribution.
Who GAS about a freaking medal or award, anyway? We did plenty of shit that should have warranted an award that only prompted an acknowledgment in PT formation from the BC, sometimes, and even that was, frankly, a little embarassing.
Let 'em have the medal. Let 76Y's have a medal. I don't GAS, and I bet I'm not the only one.
I read it as expressing opinions on a new medal that doesn't seem to be really needed.
Maybe we have to be eligiblle for the award to better understand its 'need'...but can imagine the reactions which may exist now by a pilot who has a BSM for flying an F-16 in support of OEF towards a fellow pilot with a BSM for flying a drone out of Beale AFB in NorCal in support of OEF.
I remember a similar line of reasoning and derisive comments from the field when the DOD introduced the ASR, OSR, NCOPDR, HSM, MFO, and AAM - once instituted, I never saw anyone turn them down and not wear them.
My issues aren't with such awards but, based upon experience, the fickleness of their awarding once instituted. However, that is an issue which always has existed and, I suspect, always will.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Utah Bob
02-15-2013, 08:49
I think we can all agree that the US military is a bit medal happy and has been for a number of years. Look at a chart of US medals and decorations compared a chart of UK awards. We just seem to be obsessed with "recognition" in this society. 15 minutes of fame has morphed into dozens of hour long reality shows.
So it's no surprise to me that another doodad has been created.
And it should be no surprise to anyone that the ranking of this medal is sticking in the craw of warriors who have shed their blood in the mud (that does not include me. I never received a scratch. I am bulletproof;)) or have gone in harms way numerous times.
I am not denigrating the service of uav operators, or admin personnel, or ammo haulers, or anyone else in uniform. But I think either awarding an existing medal with a special device or ranking this medal lower would have been the best move the Pentagon could have made. Now the VFW has spoken out against and they have another pr mess to handle.:rolleyes:
Chairborne64
02-15-2013, 08:49
I think AFCHIC is spot on as far as denegrating any honorable service in the military.
As far as a new medal though. IMHO it is totally without merit.
Reminds me of this argument...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M
Richard :munchin
Reminds me of this argument...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M
Richard :munchin
lol Exactly! :D
Utah Bob
02-15-2013, 09:26
Reminds me of this argument...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M
Richard :munchin
And that argument still goes on today in the bowels of the Pentagon.:rolleyes:
Team Sergeant
02-15-2013, 10:35
Who GAS about a freaking medal or award, anyway? We did plenty of shit that should have warranted an award that only prompted an acknowledgment in PT formation from the BC, sometimes, and even that was, frankly, a little embarassing.
Let 'em have the medal. Let 76Y's have a medal. I don't GAS, and I bet I'm not the only one.
That's true, it is the AF anyway. They have always had more medals, patches, logos etc then any of the services. Hell I've seen AF E-3's with more medals then General Patton.....;)
Streck-Fu
02-15-2013, 11:16
That's true, it is the AF anyway. They have always had more medals, patches, logos etc then any of the services. Hell I've seen AF E-3's with more medals then General Patton.....;)
I work with a retired Marine Gunny whose son joined the AF (insert parenting failure joke here......) security forces. As an E-2 after 8 months and no deployments, his son is filling his second row of ribbons. Much to the chagrin of Gunny who proclaimed after Christmas, "It took me 2 deployments to get that many ribbons!".... :)
Airbornelawyer
02-15-2013, 11:41
Maybe we have to be eligiblle for the award to better understand its 'need'...but can imagine the reactions which may exist now by a pilot who has a BSM for flying an F-16 in support of OEF towards a fellow pilot with a BSM for flying a drone out of Beale AFB in NorCal in support of OEF.
On the flip side, though, imagine the reaction of the drone operator with the MSM for conducting multiple missions in support of deployed operators to the guy with the MSM for preparing multiple impressive five-slide briefs for his general.
As I mentioned up-thread, there really does need to be a way to distinguish real war/operational awards from the day-to-day merit awards. Constantly creating new awards every time a gap in the awards system is discovered, however, is just a bad way to go about it.
My angst is not so much about the medal, but the fact that some of you think what they do is a joke. How many times in this forum when a.poser is identified, that also happens to be someone in the military do many on here say they shoukd be proud of what they do, and not inflate it. But then some of those same people go on to take pot shots at those they see as being "less than" others.
Like I have said 3 or 4 times previously, think what you want of the medal itself, but respect these folks for their contribution.
AFCHIC…I don’t really see it that way. Inter service rivalries and even front line –rear echelon rivalries are just that…rivalries! We have a whole lexicon devoted to those admirational relationships…REMF, POG, Fobit, wire-runner, squid, zoomies, commo geeks, patch –finder, wind dummy, etc, etc,
Have I “made light of” the supply sergeant living the life of Riley in the rear with all the creature comforts, yeah…I’m guilty! Was I totally ecstatic when his lazy ass finally showed up with chow, mail and resupply…damn skippy! Did the Supply SGT ever think, damn those front line guys smell like crap, they probably haven't had a hot shower in weeks, who the hell would ever want to live like that????
The first time I went to Bosnia, we had two SEALS attached to our team. The razing and smack talk we would give each other about our respective branch of service would probably curl your toes…but we all had each other backs and got our mission accomplished.
Surgicalcric
02-15-2013, 21:18
Maybe it is simply recognition for what they have contributed to the war effort.
This may be news to you, but these guys are the read headed step children of the AF. Although I do not think they deserve Air Medals, etc, they do a kick ass job. I know many a combat troop that have their lives, thanks to the job these folks do.
When did it become OK to denegrate the service of ANYONE who has worn the uniform of this great nation? They may not be in harms way, but they most certainly are in the fight.
Red headed step children be damned.
I am not opposed to someone receiving awards for which they are due however there is NO way in hell an airman sitting in an air-conditioned container flying a UAV (or whatever they have renamed them), regardless of what they contribute they will not have given as much as a SM who was wounded by enemy actions in the conduct of their duties.
This medal should be much further down the rack than the PH, like somewhere around the service achievement medals.
**I have visited Creech AFB, received the .05c tour and regardless of what the crews tell themselves, serving a 12 hour shift CONUS where they return to their house/family isnt the same as being in theater.
Originally Posted by afchic
Much like other services have a "warrior" class, so does the AF. And I am sure a big part of the reason UAV pilots are not awarded air medals, is because they are seen as being of a "lesser" class.
Yes, the AF has its PJs, CCTs, SOWT (with exceptions), CAS pilots, and a few others that I know I am leaving out. UAV pilots are no more a part of the warrior class than the A/C mechanics or IT personnel who keep them flying.
Originally Posted by afchic
My angst is not so much about the medal, but the fact that some of you think what they do is a joke...
Ma'am:
We dont believe what they do is a joke; it is needed and I have used their services on several occasions. However claiming to be warriors like the men and women on the ground is a joke and until their ass is on the line like those they support they will not get the respect they want.
Utah Bob
02-15-2013, 21:33
In my opinion, to be part of a "warrior class" is one thing. To be a warrior and be decorated for it, you must actually go to war.
In considering all this, it might be of worth to step back and consider how we look at the Army Commendation Medal with "V" device, Purple Heart, and Combat Infantryman Badge being worn by an Airborne Infantry Corporal compared to what we think of an Adjutant General Corps Captain wearing the "higher ranked" award of a Bronze Star Medal for meritorious achievement.
It is what it is, and it has never been equatable and w/o controversy. Just ask the guys from the 442nd Infantry what they thought of the "system" for A&Ds as they remember it being applied to their ranks in the ETO.
Just sayin'...
Richard :munchin
I played a lot of tom clancy's HAWX and sved the free world a few times.
Do I get one of those? :D
I played a lot of tom clancy's HAWX and sved the free world a few times.
Do I get one of those? :D
Did you happen to read any of AFCHIC's posts in this thread?
http://www.businessinsider.com/combat-award-for-drone-pilots-ridiculous-2013-2
Snip
The issue is summed up quite well by Nick Palmisciano, CEO of Ranger Up:
"Drone pilots absolutely deserve to be awarded for exemplary achievement. I have no issue with them receiving a medal specific to their job," the former Army Captain told Business Insider. "That being said, there can be no valor without danger, and a drone pilot faces no danger, only stress. Placing such an award above the Bronze Star is pure comedy and just juxtaposes the stark differences between views of the Pentagon Leadership compared to those who are actually doing the job. I'd suspect drone pilots don't even want the award with such a high order or precedence. In such a position it will constitute a personal embarrassment for the recipient and a standing joke for the rest of the military. Keep the award. Change the position."
Snip
http://www.businessinsider.com/combat-award-for-drone-pilots-ridiculous-2013-2
Snip
The issue is summed up quite well by Nick Palmisciano, CEO of Ranger Up:
"Drone pilots absolutely deserve to be awarded for exemplary achievement. I have no issue with them receiving a medal specific to their job," the former Army Captain told Business Insider. "That being said, there can be no valor without danger, and a drone pilot faces no danger, only stress. Placing such an award above the Bronze Star is pure comedy and just juxtaposes the stark differences between views of the Pentagon Leadership compared to those who are actually doing the job. I'd suspect drone pilots don't even want the award with such a high order or precedence. In such a position it will constitute a personal embarrassment for the recipient and a standing joke for the rest of the military. Keep the award. Change the position."
Snip
That is a perfect summary of my view also. Fix the placement and drive on.
As of 1-11-13 here are numbers for BSM’s awarded for OEF, OIF and OND.
4266 awarded for valor, 163,235 for service or achievement. It is our government that has cheapened the BSM beyond belief. I gotta agree with the Captain in Dusty’s post # 73, keep the award change the position. Then the powers to be should get a grip on all these Bronze Stars they are handing out to every Tom, Dick and Harry that was never in harm’s way. The awarding of the BSM should mean a hell of a lot more than what it has now become.
https://www.hrc.army.mil/TAGD/Awards%20and%20Decorations%20Statistics%20by%20Con flict
Wartime Awards Statistics, Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF)
Bronze Star Medal for Valor 267 1,509 1,776
Bronze Star Medal svc/ach 3,204 51,080 54,284
Wartime Awards Statistics, Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Bronze Star Medal for Valor 754 1,700 2,454
Bronze Star Medal svc/ach 10,332 89,546 99,878
Wartime Awards Statistics, Operation New Dawn (OND)
Bronze Star Medal for Valor 0 36 36
Bronze Star Medal svc/ach 3 9,073 9,073
MOO - but the order of precedence is an issue which has always existed and always will, and the matter is a bit more complicated than the good CPTs simplified solution.
For example, how does a BSM for "meritorious achievement" or an MSM rank above an ARCOM/NAVCOM w/V as it now does? Or an LOM above a BSM w/V or DFC w/V? Or one of the several DSMs commonly awarded to senior Officers above a SS?
So - do we now change the order of precedence of our existing awards, too, to recognize this long established A&D disonance?
Mr Singer offers up a pretty good opinion on some of the issues involved with this new way of thinking about medals and warfare at WaPo.
Richard :munchin
A military medal for drone strikes? Makes sense.
WaPo, 15 Feb 2013
It is an odd medal indeed that “may not be awarded for valor in combat under any circumstances.” But that definition is precisely what drives the need for and the controversy surrounding the military’s new Distinguished Warfare Medal.
Announced by Leon Panetta this past week in one of his final acts as defense secretary, the medal recognizes achievements in post-Sept. 11 military operations, accomplishments “so exceptional and outstanding as to clearly set the individual apart from comrades or from other persons in similar situations.” But what makes the medal so noteworthy is that there is no geographic limit on where the action took place. It was created to catch up to the military’s growing use of unmanned systems (i.e., drones) and cyber-warfare tools, and can therefore be awarded “regardless of the domain used or the member’s physical location.”
Before this medal, a Predator pilot carrying out an important mission, such as the 2006 operation that found the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, or a cyber-warrior taking down a key enemy network couldn’t receive such a high recognition.
The notion of granting medals to those who don’t physically go into harm’s way has elicited indignation (“Awarding war medals to those who operate America’s death-delivering video games” was the headline on a column by Salon’s Glenn Greenwald) as well as mockery (“Medals have jumped the shark when drone operators get higher medals than dudes on ground,” tweeted defense blogger Jason Fritz).
Yet, a medal of this kind was bound to come about eventually. New technologies have changed the operations and makeup of the military; a growing segment of our warriors are fighting from afar. Over the past decade, we’ve gone from a mere handful of unmanned systems to more than 20,000 in the air and on the ground. The Air Force now trains more unmanned-systems operators than it does manned fighter and bomber plane pilots combined. And military spending on cyber-operations measures in the billions of dollars, with Cyber Command set to quintuple in size.
In the past, personnel in these growing fields weren’t eligible for traditional forms of recognition, such as medals, reflecting something of an identity crisis in the armed forces. These new fields are seen as the future of war, but their career prospects remain dicey in the present. Over the past five years, the likelihood of an Air Force major in the unmanned-systems community receiving a promotion has declined by 13 percentage points compared with his military peers, whether they are meteorologists or fighter pilots. At higher levels, the pool is so small as to be statistically insignificant; only 43 of approximately 4,500 Air Force colonels have experience in unmanned systems.
New weapons of war have also continually reshaped our idea of the skills a soldier should have. When guns came along, for instance, one nobleman in the 1500s complained of “so many brave and valiant men” shot by “cowards and shirkers who would not dare to look in the face the men they bring down from a distance with their wretched bullets.” Or as a French general commented after the Battle of Verdun in 1916: “Three men and a machine gun can stop a battalion of heroes.”
Like all important matters, this evolution is best illustrated with Mel Gibson movies. In the days of swordplay, individual ferocity often carried the day in battle and so was the most admired skill of a warrior (think Mel Gibson in “Braveheart”). With the invention of gunpowder, the ultimate value instead became steadfastness. Courage was redefined as standing in a line, with passive disdain for the bullets flying (think Mel Gibson in “The Patriot”). But when the machine gun arrived in war, this old definition of courage became not just tragic (think Mel Gibson in “Gallipoli”) but sheer insanity (think Mel Gibson in “Mad Max”).
New technologies are moving the point of action, and danger, for today’s forces, geographically and chronologically. If you are fighting from a computer far from the front line, there is no real threat other than carpal tunnel syndrome. And there is not merely greater distance from personal risk — as we saw with previous technologies, from the bow and arrow to the manned bomber flying above a city — but a revolutionary disconnection from risk. Moreover, the “exceptional and outstanding” achievement the new medal is to recognize may be accomplished days, months or even years before the missile is fired or the computer virus kicks into action.
Regardless of the timing and location, however, those who fight from afar still make tough and consequential decisions that both save and cost lives. That is why such new forms of recognition are appropriate; indeed, they are overdue.
But another, more important kind of recognition is also necessary. It is not just our old concepts of medals that must shift but also our traditional notions of war.
While President Obama has declared that “a decade of war is now ending,” the reality is that these new technologies enable a different kind of warfare to proceed, the “shadow wars” and not-so-covert operations that range from Pakistan to Yemen. Congress has yet to catch up with these new wars, substituting questions at confirmation hearings for tough votes on these campaigns.
The Distinguished Warfare Medal perfectly encapsulates how war, though changing, in many ways remains the same. Just as it was 5,000 years ago, war today is a story both tragic and glorious, an arena where terrible things take place but individuals distinguish themselves through extraordinary acts. New technology is rewriting major parts of that story, however — the who, the how, the where and even the why of those terrible things and extraordinary acts. We can decry it, we can mock it, or we can simply recognize that this is the reality of our strange new world of robotic planes, computerized weapons and medals that aren’t for valor in combat.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-military-medal-for-drone-strikes-makes-sense/2013/02/15/e90c0638-76e4-11e2-8f84-3e4b513b1a13_story.html
Did you happen to read any of AFCHIC's posts in this thread?
All of them, as a matter of fact.
Allow me to retort: did you happen to familiarize yourself with the notion of humor and jokes?
Medals are just pieces of metal, you do what you do because it's your job and aspiration in life. I've been awarded commendations both at personal and unit levels before. Big freaking deal. Do I feel a better person with those? Naah. I was just doing my job.
Would I have felt under appreciated without? Hell no.
Bottom line? Stay light spirited, do what you do for the sake of it, not for medals and awards and don't fuss over nothing.
Solid point.
But before medals comes solid leadership, IMO. Especially for the very young E-verylownumeral
Seems laughable to me to award somebody who is, in effect, joysticking a remote airplane with a medal that can rank higher than something a guy does while he's in the shit, on the ground, behind enemy lines, but nothing surprises me anymore coming out of the Military or politicians. The Country's going to hell in a handbasket.
...nothing surprises me anymore coming out of the Military or politicians. The Country's going to hell in a handbasket.
Do you think we'd see the MOH awarded for performing a funeral detail?
Richard :munchin
Do you think we'd see the MOH awarded for performing a funeral detail?
More likely a Nobel prize.
Do you think we'd see the MOH awarded for performing a funeral detail?
Richard :munchin
Who knows? Not right off. The SOP is to introduce something just a tad stupider with each iteration, a la DADT to homosexuals allowed to homosexual marriage allowed to women allowed in combat MOS's to-who knows what? Acceptance of pedophilia? Coprophagia? It'll take them a while, but they might work up to something as outrageous as the instance you mention. Your example wouldn't be any more surprising to MSG Shriver, if he miraculousy walked out of the boonies, than finding out his new Commander used to be named Francine.
It's the same thing they're trying to do with guns. Ban certain types in certain situations now, and it'll be easier to ban 'em all, later. That's why MO's attempt will fail-they didn't ease up to a total confiscation of firearms.
Before you ask, by "they" I mean liberal/"progressive" leaders.
Who knows? Not right off. The SOP is to introduce something just a tad stupider with each iteration, a la DADT to homosexuals allowed to homosexual marriage allowed to women allowed in combat MOS's to-who knows what? Acceptance of pedophilia? Coprophagia? It'll take them a while, but they might work up to something as outrageous as the instance you mention. Your example wouldn't be any more surprising to MSG Shriver, if he miraculousy walked out of the boonies, than finding out his new Commander used to be named Francine.
It's the same thing they're trying to do with guns. Ban certain types in certain situations now, and it'll be easier to ban 'em all, later. That's why MO's attempt will fail-they didn't ease up to a total confiscation of firearms.
Before you ask, by "they" I mean liberal/"progressive" leaders.
What I eat at the dinner table is none of your concern...I thought that this was part of the Paleo diet...
Well - what's 'new' ain't so new... ;)
Between 1863 and 1917, more than three thousand Medals of Honor were awarded for actions between the Civil War and World War I. In response to the Medal of Honor Legion’s concern that the Medal of Honor was losing its prestige due to a lack of clear criteria for awarding the medal, Secretary of War Russell A. Alger promulgated clear criteria for the award in June 1897. Subsequently, Congress authorized the War Department in June, 1916, to appoint a board of five general officers to review every Medal of Honor awarded. As a result of this Board, 911 names were stricken from the Honor Roll in February 1917 (Purge of 1917). The most notable were the medals awarded to all members of the 27th Maine for extending their enlistments to defend Washington D. C. as Robert E. Lee was taking the fight north to Gettysburg in June 1863, the twenty-nine members of President Lincoln's funeral guard, and six civilians.
http://mohm.org/recipient_pages/moh_recipient_history.html
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Seems laughable to me to award somebody who is, in effect, joysticking a remote airplane with a medal that can rank higher than something a guy does while he's in the shit, on the ground, behind enemy lines,
Point taken. And for what it's worth, I concur.
Well - what's 'new' ain't so new... ;)
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
lol I should have smelled the ol' bait 'n switch, coming from you.
I'm not surprised to find out it's already happened, though-since it was damnyankees who done it. :D
I'm not surprised to find out it's already happened, though-since it was damnyankees who done it. :D
And Republicans, at that. ;)
Richard :munchin
And Republicans, at that. ;)
Richard :munchin
Brings up a good point-it was Republicans who freed the slaves.
All of them, as a matter of fact.
Allow me to retort: did you happen to familiarize yourself with the notion of humor and jokes?
When it comes to attempts at humor, situational awareness and timing are everything. Your previous remark failed at both, as does your follow-up attempt to explain it away.
Richard :munchin
When it comes to attempts at humor, situational awareness and timing are everything. Your previous remark failed at both, as does your follow-up attempt to explain it away.
Richard :munchin
I beg to differ.
However, message received. Have a good one, Sir.
Irishsquid
02-16-2013, 16:07
Much like other services have a "warrior" class, so does the AF. And I am sure a big part of the reason UAV pilots are not awarded air medals, is because they are seen as being of a "lesser" class.
I'm only going to speak to this. I don't know any UAV types, but I do work with the AF Cyber guys, the other recipients of this new award. I know for a fact they REASON they are seen as a "lesser," class isn't because they sit in Texas to do their job. It's because they walk around like friggin' cheerleaders, and call themselves warriors.
Squadron emails all start with:
"Attention cyber gunslingers and <unit name> warriors!"
and then continue to say something like:
"We are looking for suggestions for a new squadron chant or cheer."
Yep...if you're worried about your unit's friggin' cheer/chant...you have no business calling yourself a warrior.
And THAT is why the entirety of the military looks down on those guys.
And THAT is why the entirety of the military looks down on those guys.
I'm retired SF, therefore "military", and I don't look down on them. I believe in activities like that to keep up the unit esprit, and I believe they deserve to be acknowledged for their service.
There's no disdain for Airmen when I say that an award, if it's ranked higher than one in which physical harm or death was risked in order to receive it, is wrong. Plain as day.
Don't forget, fast movers come in extremely handy at times. ;)
Irishsquid
02-16-2013, 16:30
Don't forget, fast movers come in extremely handy at times. ;)
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly...it just seems to me that even the contractors who work here laugh with derision anytime someone pulls that "cyber gunslinger," stuff. Hell...so do all the Airmen below the rank of E7...it's the Senior Es and the Os that are pushing that stuff, and NOBODY here takes them seriously. They're trying to push unit chants instead of military discipline, physical fitness, or even giving a damn about the welfare of their enlisted men.
A few weeks ago, someone came in telling them they were offering "early out," and every single E4 and below in the unit put in a request. They don't need a new medal, and they don't need a chant...what they need is a solid understanding of how their job contributes to the mission, and a general sense of being appreciated for it...nothing more. Or at least, that's what I get from talking to them...
They're trying to push unit chants instead of military discipline, physical fitness, or even giving a damn about the welfare of their enlisted men.
...
Well, that's wrong, too.
I remember clinching up in formation when I had to shout, "Roll, Rock-Roll!" :D
Irishsquid
02-16-2013, 17:18
Well, that's wrong, too.
I remember clinching up in formation when I had to shout, "Roll, Rock-Roll!" :D
Unfortunately, since I transferred over from Navy to Army a while after the release of that god-awful 300 movie, and the ensuing obsession with boy-loving Greeks, every unit cheer I've ever heard (which I've only heard in a training environment) has had something to do with Spartans.
I always thought a unit would look much more professional, and a helluva lot more intimidating, if they stood at perfect position of attention, with flawless bearing, and didn't say a single word after all the other units had to yell something to feel special. I'd like to see it happen some day.
300 movie
This one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VDZw_cPVTI
...every unit cheer I've ever heard (which I've only heard in a training environment) has had something to do with Spartans.
So...I guess the days of morale building cheers like this are gone, huh. :p
Rat s**t, bat s**t, dirty old t**t,
Sixty-nine @$$holes tied in a knot,
Eat, f**k, s**k, s**t, nibble, gobble chew,
We're the mean motherf**kers from Charlie One Two!
Arrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
Over four decades later and I can still recall it as if it were yesterday. ;)
Richard :munchin
So...I guess the days of morale building cheers like this are gone, huh. :p
Rat s**t, bat s**t, dirty old t**t,
Sixty-nine @$$holes tied in a knot,
Eat, f**k, s**k, s**t, nibble, gobble chew,
We're the mean motherf**kers from Charlie One Two!
Arrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
Over four decades later and I can still recall it as if it were yesterday. ;)
Richard :munchin
lol I can still remember "B-2-3, B-2-3, best damn company in BCT!", but I can't remember the numeric designation of the last ODA I was Team Sergeant for. :eek:
I'm of the opinion that since Vietnam, more of us (SF) have died in the care of pilots than from the enemy.
Irishsquid
02-16-2013, 21:18
So...I guess the days of morale building cheers like this are gone, huh. :p
Rat s**t, bat s**t, dirty old t**t,
Sixty-nine @$$holes tied in a knot,
Eat, f**k, s**k, s**t, nibble, gobble chew,
We're the mean motherf**kers from Charlie One Two!
Arrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
Over four decades later and I can still recall it as if it were yesterday. ;)
Richard :munchin
Hah! I wish...no...last time I was threatened with an Article 15 it was for calling the "yellow bird," cadence when, apparently, there was a female somewhere within a mile who heard us yelling "if you want some head, you need some bread."
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Troops Use Humor To Disparage New Medal
S&S, 15 Feb 2013
The Distinguished Warfare Medal was established to acknowledge the most modern technology, but servicemembers and veterans are responding to the award’s creation in a decidedly old-school way: Mocking it mercilessly.
Along with an avalanche of Whiskey Tango Foxtrots and a tsunami of outrage, troops are circulating a photo of a gold-plated X-Box controller and the skull-emblazoned “Call of Duty” medal as “prototypes” of the new award, which honors servicemembers like drone pilots and computer hackers who impact combat operations from afar. The medal is being called the Chairborne Medal, the Distant Warfare Medal and the Purple Buttocks, among other names.
The Onion-esque military website “The Duffel Blog” poked fun at the new medal by posting two related stories: “Drone Pilot To Receive First Air Force Medal of Honor Since Vietnam” and “Heroic Predator Drone Is First Recipient of Distinguished Warfare Medal.”
“Doctrine Man,” an Army officer and purveyor of military humor, referred to the medal as a “pledge pin” and drew a comic suggesting that some drone pilots could earn the medal by flying a mission from the safety of the head. Then, drawing parallels to “A Few Good Men’s” Col. Jessup, he posted the comic in mouse pad form with the quote, “You need me on that joystick!”
So while the first servicemember to earn the medal will need to be an exceptional drone pilot or cyber whiz, he or she may also need a thick skin to wear it in public.
http://www.stripes.com/blogs/stripes-central/stripes-central-1.8040/troops-use-humor-to-disparage-new-medal-1.208114
So...I guess the days of morale building cheers like this are gone, huh. :p
Rat s**t, bat s**t, dirty old t**t,
Sixty-nine @$$holes tied in a knot,
Eat, f**k, s**k, s**t, nibble, gobble chew,
We're the mean motherf**kers from Charlie One Two!
Arrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
Over four decades later and I can still recall it as if it were yesterday. ;)
Richard :munchin
I like it!
Think I'll teach it to Mr. Sheamus...my grandson.
My daughter will love it...:rolleyes:
More from the troops - and the beat goes on...
Richard :munchin
New Medal For Modern Warfare Sparks Strong Reaction
S&S, 14 Feb 2013
The news that a medal has been created to honor the “extraordinary actions” of drone pilots and other servicemembers acting far from the battlefield has triggered strong reactions about medals and their value.
In one of his last official acts, outgoing Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Wednesday announced the creation of the Distinguished Warfare Medal, to recognize “extraordinary achievements that directly impact on combat operations, but do not involve acts of valor or physical risks that combat entails.”
The medal will rank immediately below the Distinguished Flying Cross — and higher than the Bronze Star — in order of precedence, according to a Defense Department chart. It can be awarded for any actions after Sept. 11, 2001.
“Our military reserves its highest decorations, obviously, for those who display gallantry and valor in actions where their lives are on the line, and we will continue to do so,” Panetta said. “But we should also have the ability to honor the extraordinary actions that make a true difference in combat operations.”
Drones and cyberwarfare “have changed the way wars are fought,” Panetta said.
Critics quickly pounced on the idea that medals for trigger-pullers would now be outranked by a medal for joystick-manipulators.
The Veterans of Foreign Wars voiced its displeasure in a statement Thursday, declaring that the 2 million-member organization “is in total disagreement” with the decision to have the new Distinguished Warfare Medal outrank the Bronze Star and Purple Heart, adding that it could “quickly deteriorate into a morale issue.”
“The VFW fully concurs that those far from the fight are having an immediate impact on the battlefield in real-time,” said John E. Hamilton, VFW national commander and a combat-wounded Marine Corps rifleman in Vietnam. “But medals that can only be earned in direct combat must mean more than medals awarded in the rear.”
Those who fight remotely using technologically advanced weapons of war have often been dismissed; some scoff at military awards when there is no immediate, tangible risk to life and limb.
Others ridiculed the idea outright.
“So medals would be awarded for sitting safely ensconced in a bunker on U.S. soil and launching bombs with a video joystick at human beings thousands of miles away,” wrote commentator Glenn Greenwald for Salon.com in a July 2012, column when talk of the medal first surfaced.
Critics also have derided the medal as redundant, given that awards for technical expertise and/or meritorious service outside war zones exist in the array of medals the services already offer.
Yet some see merit in the idea, questioning the current definition of “war zone.”
Air Force Maj. David Blair, writing in the May-June 2012, issue of the Air & Space Power Journal, noted that through the ages the users of new technology — from catapults and crossbows to nuclear submarines — have always been dismissed as somehow less praiseworthy than traditional warriors.
Blair asked how much difference there is in terms of risk “between 10,000 feet and 10,000 miles,” if “combat risk” is to be weighed as a factor in awards.
A “manned aircraft ... that scrapes the top of a combat zone, well outside the range of any realistic threat” is deemed in “combat,” Blair writes, but a Predator firing a missile is considered “combat support.”
According to the Distinguished Warfare Medal award criteria, a servicemember must have accomplished something “so exceptional and outstanding as to clearly set the individual apart from comrades or from other persons in similar situations” to earn the medal, and it cannot be awarded for valor in combat.
Panetta made the announcement at what he said will likely be his last news conference as secretary of defense.
The medal is a recognition of evolving 21st-century warfare, in which troops fight wars from computers and video screens, The Associated Press noted. The medal could go to servicemembers who never set foot in a combat zone, but launch drone strikes or cyberattacks that can kill or disable an enemy.
For its part, the Air Force was apparently not eager to allow servicemembers in Afghanistan to express their thoughts about the new medal. The Air Force Public Affairs Office would not allow a Stars and Stripes reporter to gather comments from airmen at Kandahar Airfield in Afghanistan.
One reader's response.
I've heard of mission creep, now we have medal creep. . .
Since the war on terror started we've created the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT) Service Medal, GWOT Expeditionary Medal, Afghan Campaign Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal and the Combat Action Badge. Our servicemembers look like long-serving Soviet Field Marshals from WWII or senior officers of the North Korean People's Army. Why couldn't the Air Medal be expanded for UAV pilots, and for our Cyber warriors create a Cyber Action Badge. Another medal was not needed. And ranking it ahead of the Bronze Star and Purple Heart is an insult to Bronze Star with Valor and Purple Heart awardees.
While we seem to have the time and money to create this medal, how about putting some effort behind explaining why an infantryman or medic who served in any of two or more of the following: Vietnam, post-Armistice Korea, Grenada, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Lebanon, Panama and the Gulf War get the Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB) or the Combat Medic Badge (CMB); but if you served in the Gulf War and Iraq/Afghanistan you are eligible for a star for your CIB or CMB. With the exception of Vietnam that had its own campaign medal, the Expeditionary Campaign Medal was adequate; why couldn't that be applied to GWOT? If the National Defense Service Medal was good enough for Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf War why did we suddenly need the GWOT Service Medal? And they get the National Defense Medal too.
It seems terror wasn't really a big issue until a direct attack on the Pentagon. What about the deadly terrorist attacks that occured in Europe in the 1970s and 1980s? What no European War on Terror (EWOT) Service Medal or EWOT Expeditionary Medal? Oh yeah, it's all lumped under the Cold War Service Certificate. And as servicemembers from the Cold War are constantly reminded that their service really didn't measure up to the two Greatest generations (those who served in WWII and those serving in GWOT and Operation New Dawn).
http://www.stripes.com/news/new-medal-for-modern-warfare-sparks-strong-reaction-1.208025
More from the troops - and the beat goes on...
Richard :munchin
It's a stretch,, but maybe??? :(
we petition the obama administration to: Lower the precedence of the new Distinguished Warfare Medal
Moved to:
https://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=492065#post492065
miclo18d
03-13-2013, 16:48
Hagel orders halt to production of drone pilot, cyberwarrior medal
By Karen DeYoung, Published: March 12
Story from WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/hagel-orders-halt-to-production-of-drone-cyber-medal/2013/03/12/e0e84e0c-8b30-11e2-b63f-f53fb9f2fcb4_story.html)
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has ordered the military to stop production of a controversial new medal pending a 30-day study of whether the award for drone pilots and cyberwarriors should outrank medals given for battlefield bravery.
Pentagon spokesman George Little said that Hagel was particularly attuned to the concerns of veterans organizations, which have complained that the Distinguished Warfare Medal was ranked above the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart in the military’s order of precedence.
Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts as an enlisted soldier in Vietnam, has a long history with the veterans groups, Little said. “He’s been a member of one. He headed the USO. He’s heard their concerns.”
Little also confirmed that Hagel has ordered two separate internal reviews of a case involving an Air Force general who last month overturned a military jury’s sexual assault conviction of a fighter pilot.
The secretary of the Air Force and the Defense Department’s legal counsel will review the decision by Lt. Gen. Craig A. Franklin, commander of the Third Air Force in Europe, who tossed out the conviction of Lt. Col. James Wilkerson without explanation, Little said. Results are due March 20.
The general counsel will also assess by March 27 whether the Uniform Code of Military Justice — the authority that allowed Franklin’s action — needs to be changed. Little said defense lawyers have not yet determined whether any changes in the code, established by Congress but administered by the president, would require additional legislation.
The case has become the focus of long-standing criticism by some lawmakers that the military does not take the problem of sexual harassment seriously.
Top Pentagon lawyers are due to testify Wednesday at a hearing on the issue before the personnel subcommittee of the Senate Armed Services Committee. “I’m going to stay at this until we, hopefully, get a piece of justice for a whole lot of women out there that, frankly, many of whom are just afraid to even come forward because of the way this crime has traditionally been treated within the military,” Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) said Tuesday on MSNBC.
A letter from committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and James M. Inhofe (Okla.), the panel’s ranking Republican, asking for reconsideration of the warfare medal was on Hagel’s desk when he returned Monday from a trip to Afghanistan.
While they were “supportive of the new medal,” the senators wrote that they were concerned “that it is given precedence above awards earned by service members for actions on the battlefield.” Drone pilots and cyberwarriors generally operate in the United States.
Little said that Hagel has placed Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in charge of that review, to be completed within 30 days.
“The fact of the matter is that production of the medal has stopped,” Little said. “No one has been nominated for this medal. No one is in training for this medal. So we do have time to make a final decision.”
It's a start. Now if we can get him to sign off on not using drones in the US...
It's a start. Now if we can get him to sign off on not using drones in the US...
Does that include Biden?
Paragrouper
03-13-2013, 20:47
Does that include Biden?
Barry has the controls on that one. ;)
RedLegGI
03-13-2013, 21:13
Does that include Biden?
I think hes on top of that list because they can't control his mouth...
ddoering
03-14-2013, 05:35
Darn, and I've been up for 3 days straight playing Medal of Honor III to prepare for getting one.
Badger52
04-15-2013, 13:35
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
No. 241-13
April 15, 2013
________________________________
Statement by Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel on the Distinguished Warfare Medal
The Department of Defense announced on Feb. 13 the establishment of the Distinguished Warfare Medal to recognize the achievements of a small number of service men and women who have an especially direct and immediate impact on combat operations through the use of remotely piloted aircraft and cyber operations. I agree with my predecessor Leon Panetta that such recognition is justly warranted for these men and women and thank him for raising the level of awareness of their hard work and critical contributions.
When I came into office, concerns were raised to me about the Distinguished Warfare Medal's order of precedence by veterans' organizations, members of Congress, and other stakeholders whose views are valued by this department's leadership.
After consulting with the service secretaries, along with Gen. Dempsey and the other members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, I directed them to review the Distinguished Warfare Medal. The medal was originally conceived to be awarded only to those men and women who, while serving off the battlefield, have an extraordinary impact on combat operations. While the review confirmed the need to ensure such recognition, it found that misconceptions regarding the precedence of the award were distracting from its original purpose.
The Joint Chiefs of Staff, with the concurrence of the service secretaries, have recommended the creation of a new distinguishing device that can be affixed to existing medals to recognize the extraordinary actions of this small number of men and women. I agree with the Joint Chiefs' findings, and have directed the creation of a distinguishing device instead of a separate medal.
The Joint Chiefs also recommend further consultation with the service secretaries, the service senior enlisted leaders, and veterans' organizations regarding the nature of the device as well as clear definition of the eligibility criteria for award of the device. I have directed that within 90 days final award criteria and the other specifics of the distinguishing device be developed and presented to me for final approval.
The service men and women, who operate and support our remotely piloted aircraft, operate in cyber, and others are critical to our military's mission of safeguarding the nation. I again want to thank my predecessor, Leon Panetta, for raising the need to ensure that these men and women are recognized for their contributions.
A copy of the signed memo is available at: P&R and CJC Memo DWM
http://www.defense.gov/pubs/PR%20and%20CJCS%20Memo%20DWM.pdf
What's the "device"? A little toggle switch?
mark46th
04-15-2013, 15:39
The cynical side of me wonders if he is doing this to get the front line soldiers, sailors and marines to like him.
nousdefions
04-15-2013, 16:05
What's the "device"? A little toggle switch?
I vote for Nintendo controller.......
What's the "device"? A little toggle switch?
A hand on a joystick.
Shape of joystick......optional.
The Reaper
04-15-2013, 17:46
What's the "device"? A little toggle switch?
On a Bronze Star.:rolleyes:
TR
Looks like it got shot down. :munchin
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=119778
Looks like it got shot down. :munchin
I think the fly boyz got what than they wanted,, in spades..
DSM, w/joy stick dev
DFC, w/joy stick dev
SS, w/joy stick dev
BS, w/joy stick dev
AM, w/joy stick dev
ARCOM, w/joy stick dev
The distinguishing devices can be affixed to awards at different levels, so, once written, the criteria for the awards must reflect that, officials said.
For example, the criteria for affixing a device to an Army Commendation Medal would be different than those for a Meritorious Service Medal -- a higher award.
:munchin
Dozer523
04-17-2013, 06:25
[COLOR="Pink"]I think the fly boyz got what than they wanted,, in spades...w/joy stick dev
:munchin
Clearly a case of "be careful what you wish for, you might get it."
Regerdless of the award that device is going to draw attention away from doing a good job to the comfortable, non-risk environment it was earned.
So they do a good job that earns them an ARCOMS or a great job that earns them an MSM. but it comes with the " oh yeah but you did it in a comfy chair and went home every night . . . Too bad, really. What happens when everyone has to be special.
Basenshukai
04-17-2013, 06:36
Clearly a case of "be careful what you wish for, you might get it."
Regerdless of the award that device is going to draw attention away from doing a good job to the comfortable, non-risk environment it was earned.
So they do a good job that earns them an ARCOMS or a great job that earns them an MSM. but it comes with the " oh yeah but you did it in a comfy chair and went home every night . . . Too bad, really. What happens when everyone has to be special.
Agree 100%.
I don't know for sure, but I'd guess most of these drone warriors are intense gamers, and it's starting to be proven that obsessive gamers are wired weird in the aspect that cyber-fear and emotional intensity is not much different from the real thing to them. Look at Lansky and the Joker in Aurora.
They may truly appreciate a device that signifies their ability to overcome cyber-fear in order to take out a target as much as normal warriors respect a guy with a DSC for wiping out a machinegun nest with an E-tool.
"If a six turned out to be nine, I don't mind." Jimi Hendrix