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spherojon
02-07-2013, 16:34
Christopher Jordan Dorner, and ex-LAPD LEO, has declared "war" on LEO's and their families. Here is his manifesto.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/interactive/2013/02/07/ex-lapd-officer-christopher-jordan-dorner-manifesto/

Here is a link to the story.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/07/suspect-identified-in-deaths-cal-state-coach-fiance/

This is nuts, police everywhere today as I drive around. Big Bear is locked down, Naval Base locked down, freeways have license plate readers units, helicopters, K-9 units, unmarked vehicles...Stay safe LEOs and families.

nousdefions
02-07-2013, 16:59
Two innocent women shot by police in massive manhunt for rogue cop... (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html)

Stay safe you Left Coasters.....

Team Sergeant
02-07-2013, 17:03
Two innocent women shot by police in massive manhunt for rogue cop... (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html)

Stay safe you Left Coasters.....

I smell fear.... a whole lot of innocent people are going to get hurt when cops are this afraid. Hey LEO's the guy was an officer in the Army, they do not attend all the "killing" schools the NCO's do. Just an FYI. This guy is not Rambo, just a insane former cop.

PSM
02-07-2013, 17:10
Excerpt of his "manifesto". (http://www.soopermexican.com/2013/02/07/news-media-scrub-cop-murderers-manifesto-of-pro-obama-pro-hillary-loved-msnbc-pro-gay-and-anti-gun-comments/#more-3288)

BLUF: Pro Obama, pro gun control, pro Biden, loves Hillary and Christie, hates LaPierre. Hopes Piers Morgan is made a citizen. Wants to leave his brain to science due to two concussions in the mid '90s. And much, much, more.

Pat

Team Sergeant
02-07-2013, 17:13
I really hope they take this bottom-feeding coward alive so he rots in a prison for the rest of his natural life.

Susa
02-07-2013, 17:15
Yeah...he hopped on the crazy train a long time ago. LEOs found his burned out truck up Bear Mountain. There is a storm coming in, with the snow level dropping to 2700ft. So my question to those that would know is: will the storm help or hinder LEOs from finding this crazed loon?

Excerpt of his "manifesto". (http://www.soopermexican.com/2013/02/07/news-media-scrub-cop-murderers-manifesto-of-pro-obama-pro-hillary-loved-msnbc-pro-gay-and-anti-gun-comments/#more-3288)

BLUF: Pro Obama, pro gun control, pro Biden, loves Hillary and Christie, hates LaPierre. Hopes Piers Morgan is made a citizen. Wants to leave his brain to science due to two concussions in the mid ,90s. And much, much, more.

Pat

Susa
02-07-2013, 17:23
No! I don't want to pay for this loser to have a "nice" long life in prison. Considering that he may be up a mountain, I think it'd be great if he became a tasty meal for a bear or mountain lion or some other woodland creature. But a bullet (or 2) to the face would suffice.

I really hope they take this bottom-feeding coward alive so he rots in a prison for the rest of his natural life.

ddoering
02-07-2013, 17:59
I'm betting he ends up looking like Travon Martin.

spherojon
02-07-2013, 18:00
Well, I would be shocked if he is still up in the Big Bear area, unless he wants to go all Rambo. There is a storm coming that will last a couple days and drop the snow fall level to 2700ft. Unless he has some bunker up there, or shelter...I dont see the reason for him to be up there.

afchic
02-07-2013, 18:13
I smell fear.... a whole lot of innocent people are going to get hurt when cops are this afraid. Hey LEO's the guy was an officer in the Army, they do not attend all the "killing" schools the NCO's do. Just an FYI. This guy is not Rambo, just a insane former cop.

I read he was a Navy LT.

nousdefions
02-07-2013, 18:18
I really hope they take this bottom-feeding coward alive so he rots in a prison for the rest of his natural life.

Agreed, I would sentence to 30 years in Bubba's cell......

Dusty
02-07-2013, 18:18
No matter what he was, he will be a victim by the time the lib press is done.

drivfast
02-07-2013, 18:43
http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/us-navy-releases-records-of-triple-shooting-suspect-christopher-dorner02072013

SF18C
02-07-2013, 18:47
Time to disarm the cops! Those evil black guns are killing people AGAIN!!!!

FML...I need to watch Moonshiners or something more intelligence than trying to figure out the left coasters and the MSM!

Dusty
02-07-2013, 18:51
Time to disarm the cops! Those evil black guns are killing people AGAIN!!!!



You know, that's an excellent point to make.

The Reaper
02-07-2013, 18:55
I read he was a Navy LT.

Correct. An O-3.

TR

Stiletto11
02-07-2013, 19:28
Maybe they should deploy the DHS since they have more ammo than the total it took to fight OIF.

airbornediver
02-07-2013, 19:30
just what in the blue bloody fuck LA?

Read his manifesto. Seems like there's some shit that LAPD needs to fix but they definitely missed out on him snapping like a twig.

I'd rather him get taken out than sit in prison soaking up more tax dollars and becoming some sort of prison celebrity. A cop killer will be hailed as hero in prison, even if its a former cop.

Better be on guard tonight LA, or rather, be extra vigilant.

Old Dog New Trick
02-07-2013, 19:37
There's a whole bunch of San Bernardino residents that believe in the 2A tonight!

Bet some of them go buy Cali legal ARs tomorrow (or as soon as the police move on and let them out of their houses.)

PSM
02-07-2013, 19:39
There's a whole bunch of San Bernardino residents that believe in the 2A tonight!

Bet some of them go buy Cali legal ARs tomorrow (or as soon as the police move on and let them out of their houses.)

If his war is with the LAPD, he won't find them at Big Bear, unless they are skiing.

Pat

SF18C
02-07-2013, 19:43
Just watched the presser with the sheriff...we found his truck, cops going door to door, dogs, following snowy foot prints....see something say something! Now they want drones!

Press galore with lots of questions...here, here call on me!!!

A note on the media...pictures of the perp in his Navy uniform, none in his police uniform. All the pics of the cops responding to this issue...they have EBWs in their hands.

More bread and circuses????


Now how do you spell Benghazi again?

Old Dog New Trick
02-07-2013, 19:52
If his war is with the LAPD, he won't find them at Big Bear, unless they are skiing.

Pat

Well, so far he has not engaged LAPD. Just the (unarmed) daughter of a LAPD Captain.

His others were ambushes of Corona and Riverside PD in their cars.

Mr Furious
02-07-2013, 21:31
Well, so far he has not engaged LAPD...

Probably remembered the "rockets" LAPD had on hand from their buy-back program

PSM
02-07-2013, 21:33
Well, so far he has not engaged LAPD. Just the (unarmed) daughter of a LAPD Captain.

His others were ambushes of Corona and Riverside PD in their cars.

I hate it when a guy doesn't live up to his manifesto.

Pat

SF18C
02-07-2013, 21:37
I hate it when a guy doesn't live up to his manifesto.

Pat

Classic!

UWOA (RIP)
02-07-2013, 23:46
I smell fear.... a whole lot of innocent people are going to get hurt when cops are this afraid. Hey LEO's the guy was an officer in the Army, they do not attend all the "killing" schools the NCO's do. Just an FYI. This guy is not Rambo, just a insane former cop.

Sorry, to disagree, he was NAVY, not Army (thank the Lord). As to the officer not attending all the "killing" schools ... I'm not sure that's true in every case .... I was king of the pit in my ranger class (72-5) and that was before I spent 25 years studying/practicing Isshin Ryu karate .... and I stayed awake during the demo classes (partly motivated by the seven 'beanies' that were blown up on the course about a month prior to my arrival at SFOC in 1970 ... and I when I graduated from the FBI Hazardous Devices Course at Redstone I parlayed my demo skills with my EOD/BDU talent to build some pretty impressive IEDs for training for our Bomb DIsposal Unit. So, I think what I'm saying is, don't underestimate the lethality of this nut case ... I've pyschologically profiled people like him when I was at the FBI academy and the hostility he's evincing is based on his situational awareness of the threats he thinks he's facing ... we (law enforcement) have to get inside that mental cycle to defeat him.

I see that happening in two ways: first, we have to realize that he's dealing with frustrations that go back a long ways (indicated by the narrative in his 'manifesto') ... back to his early childhood ... so we have to be aware of the triggers that set him off and use those to advantage. Secondly, he let the boat owner live, so contrary to what some may think he's not killing indiscriminately ... that may be a way to infiltrate to close proximity if the operators can pose as civilians 'in the area.' As a retired law enforcement officer, while I regret the loss of life, I think in terms of apprehension, and I think that there is a small chance that can still happen (Part of me thinks that there may be some validity to his claim that he told the truth and that the episode of officer misconduct he reported did indeed happen -- it doesn't excuse his conduct, but I don't think anything else would/could spark such criminal activity other than sheer madness, and that is not in evidence here (See Kiritsis/Hall kidnap/criminal confinement episode in 1978 for similar modus operandi and motive).)

bjm300
02-08-2013, 01:01
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/mayor-villaraigosa-gun-control.html

"There you go again..."

Ape Man
02-08-2013, 01:02
I don't have any sympathy whatsoever for this guy. But I am starting think that LAPD deserves its bad reputation.

Two separate pickup trucks shot up because the cops thought they belong to the perp? http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html

"Chase said that in both instances police came across vehicles they thought were similar to the one Dorner is believed to be driving. Neither vehicle was Dorner's.
"Now it appears neither of them are directly related," Chase said. "In both of them, officers believed they were at the time." "

UWOA (RIP)
02-08-2013, 01:09
I don't have any sympathy whatsoever for this guy. But I am starting think that LAPD deserves its bad reputation.

Two separate pickup trucks shot up because the cops thought they belong to the perp? http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html

"Chase said that in both instances police came across vehicles they thought were similar to the one Dorner is believed to be driving. Neither vehicle was Dorner's.
"Now it appears neither of them are directly related," Chase said. "In both of them, officers believed they were at the time." "

You've hit it on the head; they should only be using deadly force when they can identify a threat and that's the only means of neutralizing it ... otherwise there's gonna be a lot of shot up vehicles and individuals who look like the perp ... LL Cool J for instance, who from what I've heard is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet .....

SF18C
02-08-2013, 03:43
The whole crazy manifesto...

http://www.crimefilenews.com/2013/02/fired-lapd-officer-obama-lover-and.html


now why would the MSM leave out major portions of this???

69harley
02-08-2013, 06:33
I like how the pictures of this guy that LAPD released were not of him in his LAPD uniform, instead it was his former Navy uniform.

This morning I saw some new pictures being circulated of him in non-military uniforms, but not his LAPD uniform.

Anyone else think this was a deliberate action by those in law enforcment?

PSM
02-08-2013, 10:06
I don't have any sympathy whatsoever for this guy. But I am starting think that LAPD deserves its bad reputation.

Two separate pickup trucks shot up because the cops thought they belong to the perp? http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html

"Chase said that in both instances police came across vehicles they thought were similar to the one Dorner is believed to be driving. Neither vehicle was Dorner's.
"Now it appears neither of them are directly related," Chase said. "In both of them, officers believed they were at the time." "

Both of those involved Torrance PD, not LAPD.

Pat

Richard
02-08-2013, 10:24
I like how the pictures of this guy that LAPD released were not of him in his LAPD uniform, instead it was his former Navy uniform.

This morning I saw some new pictures being circulated of him in non-military uniforms, but not his LAPD uniform.

Anyone else think this was a deliberate action by those in law enforcment?

Ah - nothing like a little conspiracy to go along with the morning coffee. :rolleyes:

This is what I've seen on the news around here in NorCal.

Richard :munchin

Stiletto11
02-08-2013, 10:37
I like how the pictures of this guy that LAPD released were not of him in his LAPD uniform, instead it was his former Navy uniform.

This morning I saw some new pictures being circulated of him in non-military uniforms, but not his LAPD uniform.

Anyone else think this was a deliberate action by those in law enforcment?

Must be a SEAL, isn't everyone that is in the Navy a SEAL? Maybe he was SEAL TEAM Six and the Govt is trying to kill him because he knows too much.:D

Ape Man
02-08-2013, 10:44
Both of those involved Torrance PD, not LAPD.

Pat

I stand corrected.

I get yelled at all the time by people from Long Island and Norther New Jersey because I keep saying they are from the City. To this dumb country boy, if you all come from the same big urban blob and you all talk and act the same, why should I make a distinction?

But when it comes to placing blame for mishandling firearms I should be more careful.

PSM
02-08-2013, 10:50
I stand corrected.

I get yelled at all the time by people from Long Island and Norther New Jersey because I keep saying they are from the City. To this dumb country boy, if you all come from the same big urban blob and you all talk and act the same, why should I make a distinction?

But when it comes to placing blame for mishandling firearms I should be more careful.

I also stand corrected. I received a PM from a SOCAL resident informing me that LAPD was also involved in one in that area.

Pat

Streck-Fu
02-08-2013, 10:57
I also stand corrected. I received a PM from a SOCAL resident informing me that LAPD was also involved in one in that area.

Pat

So now there are 3 shootings in the area? Can you post a link to the other?

Thank you,

PSM
02-08-2013, 11:01
So now there are 3 shootings in the area? Can you post a link to the other?

Thank you,

No, but perhaps Susa can.

Pat

Susa
02-08-2013, 11:10
Two shootings involving mistaken identity. LAPD detectives shot at the newspaper delivery women, then while responding to that shooting, Torrance PD shot at another vehicle.
http://ktla.com/2013/02/08/women-delivering-newspapers-in-torrance-shot-in-manhunt-for-ex-cop/

Prior to these shootings, two LAPD officers were shot at by suspect in Corona, and shortly thereafter, the creep shot and killed the Riverside PD deputy.
So far they have been unable to locate him in the mountains, or elsewhere.

So now there are 3 shootings in the area? Can you post a link to the other?

Thank you,

Streck-Fu
02-08-2013, 11:15
Not that it matters much, but according to this LA Times article from this morning ( [URL="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-authorities-gear-up-for-continued-search-in-big-bear.html"LINK[/URL]), it was the LAPD that shot to the two women and Torrance PD were the shooters in the 2nd incident.

About 5:20 a.m. in Torrance, two women were delivering the Los Angeles Times from their blue pickup when LAPD officers spotted the truck.

The police apparently mistook the truck for Dorner's and riddled it with bullets. The women, a mother-and-daughter team, were rushed to a hospital.


The mother, who is in her 70s, was shot in the shoulder. She was listed in stable condition. Her daughter was injured by shattered glass.

About 25 minutes after that shooting, Torrance police opened fire after spotting another truck similar to Dorner's at Flagler Lane and Beryl Street. No one was reported hurt.

Team Sergeant
02-08-2013, 11:58
I like how the pictures of this guy that LAPD released were not of him in his LAPD uniform, instead it was his former Navy uniform.

This morning I saw some new pictures being circulated of him in non-military uniforms, but not his LAPD uniform.

Anyone else think this was a deliberate action by those in law enforcment?

LOL, and put the LAPD in a bad light?

Of course you're not going to see pictures of him in a LAPD uniform. They don't pay their public affairs officer $110,000 a year for nothing.......:munchin

spherojon
02-08-2013, 12:55
How you know you will get shot at by the police.
1. If you are black
2. You drive a Nissan Titan
3. If you drive with your lights off
4. If you wear a Navy Uniform.
5. If you are 6'+ @ 230pounds+ (wont matter the race, they will just shoot in the dark)

TS said it, and believe me, you can smell the fear. As for Arrowhead, its mostly republicans, they all have guns up in their cabins, as for the guys in Big Bear...mostly snow birds that are in palm springs right now, so a lot of empty cabins.

Dusty
02-08-2013, 13:11
LOL, and put the LAPD in a bad light?

Of course you're not going to see pictures of him in a LAPD uniform. They don't pay their public affairs officer $110,000 a year for nothing.......:munchin

A black cop who loves Piers Morgan and hates Wayne LaPierre doesn't fit in with the media's religious right-winger target data. Now, if you put him in a a military uniform...

Wait a minute, let me take off my tinfoil cap...

Hey! Still seems like the press is dressing up the reporting.

monsterhunter
02-08-2013, 22:20
Trying to clear up just a bit of this: LAPD shot up the truck with the old ladies in it in Torrance. While coming to their aid, Torrance PD shot up another truck leaving the area, also not the suspect. LAPD was engaged by the suspect in Corona while he was attempting to roll up on an intended victim. One officer was grazed in the head and their vehicle was disabled. Sometime after this last shooting, the suspect fired on RPD, killing an officer, apparently because they were there. This appears to all be after the suspect killed two civilians in Irvine.

Trapper John
02-09-2013, 07:25
.... and I stayed awake during the demo classes (partly motivated by the seven 'beanies' that were blown up on the course about a month prior to my arrival at SFOC in 1970 .....

I was right there when this happened and tried to tend to my wounded Brothers. These were Brothers not "beanies" and to refer to them as such dishonors their memory.

Dusty
02-09-2013, 08:15
I stayed awake during the demo classes (partly motivated by the seven 'beanies' that were blown up on the course about a month prior to my arrival at SFOC in 1970 ... )

Don't dishonor them by calling them "beanies". :munchin

SF18C
02-09-2013, 08:23
I read his manifesto, I read his reasons for declaring war on the LAPD. As a good gunner I soot many people in 91, people I really had nothing against. Now when we went to take the Republican guard I had an entirely different feeling about shooting them as opposed to some poor hungry slob that was pressed into service that wanted to be home with his family and out for under a dictator, they all died the same but I personally had a different level of animosity toward them and the one dressed like a college student who was really republican guard, well that was just me being pissed off and I did tell him to sit and shut up on my chopper.

... >Hatchet :confused:



You shot people in your helicopter?:confused:

SF18C
02-09-2013, 08:27
And the "Lack of Situational Awareness" award goes to...


I was king of the pit in my ranger class (72-5) .... and I stayed awake during the demo classes (partly motivated by the seven 'beanies' that were blown up on the course about a month prior to my arrival at SFOC in 1970 ...


I agree with my Brothers...that sure is a PISS POOR way of remembering our own!

Dusty
02-09-2013, 08:54
http://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2013/02/08/12476/lapd-manhunt-some-cheer-on-fugitive-christopher-do/

The ex-LAPD officer and former Navy reservist who posted a 14-page "manifesto" detailing his plans for a revenge-fueled rampage across California is still at large, with the search expanding into other regions.

He is a suspect in the shooting deaths of three people, including a member of Riverside PD, and the daughter of Dorner's former lawyer.

None of this has dissuaded a group of ardent supporters who back Dorner for a variety of reasons. #GoDornerGo, #WeAreAllChrisDorner and other hashtags have been gaining momentum on Twitter. Some supporters appear to be motivated by personal issues; others express anti-hero worship and fugitive fandom to push specific agendas.

Dorner was fired from the LAPD after being accused of making a false statement in reporting that a fellow officer improperly kicked a suspect. According to Dorner's manifesto, he wants to clear his name — one he says that a dangerously corrupt LAPD is responsible for ruining. (The truth of Dorner's allegations are subject to dispute.)

Richard
02-09-2013, 09:29
Narcissists like this smiley-faced guy can be dangerous when you destroy their self-perceived view of themselves.

Richard :munchin

MR2
02-09-2013, 13:23
we had a half full CH-47-D, unbound POW's, our wounded, and one POW that refused to follow the translators order to sit down and shut up, He was telling the other to rise up and take the chopper there were 5 of us and 65-70 of them.

Wow! Those Chinooks have gotten much bigger than I remembered.... Either that or those Iraqis are even smaller than they look on TV...

SF_BHT
02-09-2013, 13:33
Wow! Those Chinooks have gotten much bigger than I remembered.... Either that or those Iraqis are even smaller than they look on TV...

I think he needs to take his meds.......:munchin

MR2
02-09-2013, 13:42
Disregard.

SF18C
02-09-2013, 14:10
Narcissists like this smiley-faced guy can be dangerous when you destroy their self-perceived view of themselves.

Richard :munchin

See Lester Gillis, William Bonney, Jesse Woodson James, Bonnie Parker & Clyde Barrow.

I am not clairvoyant but I bet I know how this story will end!

UWOA (RIP)
02-09-2013, 15:12
And the "Lack of Situational Awareness" award goes to...





I agree with my Brothers...that sure is a PISS POOR way of remembering our own!

For those who have taken offense to my use of the term, I apologize. While it's been over thirty years since I served on a team, I seem to remember back then that we sometimes used the term in a self-deprecatory way much as we've used the term 'wind dummies' to refer to parachutists/airborne. Indeed, I will choose my words more carefully since I 'wear' both the SF and Ranger tabs with pride (even though I haven't worn a uniform since my retirement in '96). Since I'm am also a retired police officer, I can truthfully say I regret any loss of life. Especially as, if I remember correctly, the detonation of the ring main over which these unfortunate souls were standing was initiated by stray radio waves from a slick flying overhead. It was a terrible loss of life.

Again, I apologize to any who have taken offense to the term I used, it was not tendered in a mean spirited way.

Lance

Dusty
02-09-2013, 15:22
For those who have taken offense to my use of the term, I apologize. While it's been over thirty years since I served on a team, I seem to remember back then that we sometimes used the term in a self-deprecatory way much as we've used the term 'wind dummies' to refer to parachutists/airborne. Indeed, I will choose my words more carefully since I 'wear' both the SF and Ranger tabs with pride (even though I haven't worn a uniform since my retirement in '96). Since I'm am also a retired police officer, I can truthfully say I regret any loss of life. Especially as, if I remember correctly, the detonation of the ring main over which these unfortunate souls were standing was initiated by stray radio waves from a slick flying overhead. It was a terrible loss of life.

Again, I apologize to any who have taken offense to the term I used, it was not tendered in a mean spirited way.

Lance

No harm done.

Dusty
02-09-2013, 15:38
Post


I remember down in panama I was on a Chinook there wasn’t 147 there was maybe 13 of us counting Beanie the CREW chief and we flew I don’t know a long time. Then we landed the chopper flared out and we blew the roof of the little store there where they sold sodas for these natives and they weren’t wearing hardly any clothes they were at the Beach. I saw this one guy he had a BAD looking foot but the medic he went through goat lab and everything fixed it and some teeth and stuff but they couldn’t sell sodas-NO Roof.

UWOA (RIP)
02-09-2013, 15:49
See Lester Gillis, William Bonney, Jesse Woodson James, Bonnie Parker & Clyde Barrow.

I am not clairvoyant but I bet I know how this story will end!

I think you're right, but not soon. I'm betting that Dorner reconned the area, found a vehicle parked that he could get the keys to (by breaking into a cabin and finding them) and then took his vehicle a good distance away before burning it ... then it's a quick hike back to the new vehicle and he's got new wheels. With the focus on him and not a vehicle he can move with a degree of stealth. I'm also going to predict (using the military lines of drift theory) that he has continued moving east and is currently somewhere in the Fort Huachuca, AZ area.

I took Forensic Psychology while at the FBI National Academy and have profiled several murder cases. While Dorner intimates that he can't be profiled, there are several indicators that stand out that, while not making him a classic 'organized' serial killer, suggests what, when and where he will act.

I would suggest to my brothers in Law Enforcement that his next 'target' will be a small jurisdiction (one to three officers) where he can ambush one and obtain cash, weapons, and other implements to carry out his insane acts.

I think he'll keep hopping around until he has enough resources to lay low before a return to the Los Angeles area.

I hope I'm wrong, and that he's died from hypothermia -- frozen in the mountains, but my education and training is pointing me in another direction.

Lance

Trapper John
02-09-2013, 16:00
For those who have taken offense to my use of the term, I apologize. While it's been over thirty years since I served on a team, I seem to remember back then that we sometimes used the term in a self-deprecatory way much as we've used the term 'wind dummies' to refer to parachutists/airborne. Indeed, I will choose my words more carefully since I 'wear' both the SF and Ranger tabs with pride (even though I haven't worn a uniform since my retirement in '96). Since I'm am also a retired police officer, I can truthfully say I regret any loss of life. Especially as, if I remember correctly, the detonation of the ring main over which these unfortunate souls were standing was initiated by stray radio waves from a slick flying overhead. It was a terrible loss of life.

Again, I apologize to any who have taken offense to the term I used, it was not tendered in a mean spirited way.

Lance

We're good:D

MRF-1
02-09-2013, 16:01
I hate it when a guy doesn't live up to his manifesto.

Pat

Honestly, I am having a very hard time buying this entire deal: Ex-LEO/Ex-Navy/20 page Manifesto/.50 Cal./Missiles/30 Assault Weapons/6 Year Grudge/Boogie-Man that nobody can seem to locate

BKKMAN
02-09-2013, 18:42
Seems like he went up to Big Bear fairly prepared for the conditions...

Several weapons and cold weather survival gear have allegedly been found inside the burned-out truck owned by accused killer Christopher Dorner, CBS News has learned. A law enforcement official working on the investigation told the network a Coleman stove, cot and propane gas supplies were found inside Dorner’s Nissan Titan. Two long-range rifles with suppressors and a Glock handgun were also reportedly recovered.

Dorner Truck (http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/09/weapons-cold-weather-survival-gear-found-inside-christopher-dorners-truck/)

Streck-Fu
02-09-2013, 19:12
He burned all that in the truck? He may not be that prepared any more....

SF18C
02-09-2013, 23:58
Problem solved....Charlie Sheen is on the case!

http://now.msn.com/charlie-sheen-begs-fugitive-christopher-dorner-to-call-him

UWOA (RIP)
02-10-2013, 00:10
He burned all that in the truck? He may not be that prepared any more....

I didn't know about the broken axle either ... so I've revised my estimate as to his 'prowess' ... I still think he's out of that resort area, but I'm not sure how far he might have gotten. He's not as proficient as I thought him to be ... that's good. Hopefully, he turn up soon and we can write a final chapter to this.

Scimitar
02-10-2013, 00:30
I used to live in Big Bear,

There's only a few ways out by road, and its pretty rough terrain by foot.

There's only one reason he went to Big Bear, to draw police in, kill a few and then die himself.

You don't go to a place with only 3 very controllable exits.

S

airbornediver
02-10-2013, 09:40
He thinks he is Rambo, and somehow will be justified once the publicity hits the LAPD. He's wrong on all counts and pretty much only thing that's gonna happen is maybe he'll get a few shots off at some cops, but he'll definitely get killed - by his hand or the cops.

kgoerz
02-10-2013, 09:51
http://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2013/02/08/12476/lapd-manhunt-some-cheer-on-fugitive-christopher-do/

The ex-LAPD officer and former Navy reservist who posted a 14-page "manifesto" detailing his plans for a revenge-fueled rampage across California is still at large, with the search expanding into other regions.

He is a suspect in the shooting deaths of three people, including a member of Riverside PD, and the daughter of Dorner's former lawyer.

None of this has dissuaded a group of ardent supporters who back Dorner for a variety of reasons. #GoDornerGo, #WeAreAllChrisDorner and other hashtags have been gaining momentum on Twitter. Some supporters appear to be motivated by personal issues; others express anti-hero worship and fugitive fandom to push specific agendas.

Dorner was fired from the LAPD after being accused of making a false statement in reporting that a fellow officer improperly kicked a suspect. According to Dorner's manifesto, he wants to clear his name — one he says that a dangerously corrupt LAPD is responsible for ruining. (The truth of Dorner's allegations are subject to dispute.)

Amazing how fast society will vilify our government and cheer for a murderer. I always wonder what would happen on a larger scale. Imagine if Ruby Ridge happened today.

SF18C
02-10-2013, 10:29
Amazing how fast society will vilify our government and cheer for a murderer. I always wonder what would happen on a larger scale. Imagine if Ruby Ridge happened today.

In my mind, no need to wonder, it all depends if the "cause" has the media behind them. Look at the Occupy vs Tea Party demonstrations.

I'm sure if MSNBC was covering Ruby Ridge today = crazy tea partly zealots,
Waco TX = crazy religious zealots, the Montana Freemen = crazy separatist zealots.

So based on the past I am pretty sure that any resistance in New York state against the new NY gun laws will be "reported" as a bunch of crazy gun nuts!



Government Officials Predicting “Waco-Style Standoff” In Response To Obama Gun Confiscation
http://govtslaves.info/government-officials-predicting-waco-style-standoff-in-response-to-obama-gun-confiscation/

Paslode
02-10-2013, 12:53
I'm sure if MSNBC was covering Ruby Ridge today = crazy tea partly zealots,
Waco TX = crazy religious zealots, the Montana Freemen = crazy separatist zealots.



I agree. Most people I know, if you bring up either incident the first words out of their mouths will be 'those were those crazy people' in where ever, one was a religious cult with a pervert for a leader and the other was a white supremacist and in the militia.

Those same people are also unaware that the DOJ paid a 3.1 million dollar settlement to the 'Crazy' Weaver family.

And why do those people have that opinion.....the Media and comments from experts like this ABC consultant.


Going after a group like the Hutaree can be dangerous, ABC News consultant and former FBI agent Brad Garrett said.

"This crowd tends to be heavily armed and they are all conspiracy theorists that the government is trying to take over," he said. "And so you have to be very careful and cautious when starting arresting people like this because you can walk right into an ambush."

SF18C
02-10-2013, 13:30
I agree. Most people I know, if you bring up either incident the first words out of their mouths will be 'those were those crazy people' in where ever, one was a religious cult with a pervert for a leader and the other was a white supremacist and in the militia.

Those same people are also unaware that the DOJ paid a 3.1 million dollar settlement to the 'Crazy' Weaver family.

And why do those people have that opinion.....the Media and comments from experts like this ABC consultant.

And the truth doesn't even need to be remotely involved when reporting!

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/07/aurora-abc-draws-possible-tea-party-connection-129568.html

Badger52
02-10-2013, 13:51
In my mind, no need to wonder, it all depends if the "cause" has the media behind them. Look at the Occupy vs Tea Party demonstrations.

I'm sure if MSNBC was covering Ruby Ridge today = crazy tea partly zealots,
Waco TX = crazy religious zealots, the Montana Freemen = crazy separatist zealots.

So based on the past I am pretty sure that any resistance in New York state against the new NY gun laws will be "reported" as a bunch of crazy gun nuts!



Government Officials Predicting “Waco-Style Standoff” In Response To Obama Gun Confiscation
http://govtslaves.info/government-officials-predicting-waco-style-standoff-in-response-to-obama-gun-confiscation/Agree. MSNBC or the fecal-mouth of the time back then, that's the way they were portrayed to justify the response in its best CYA light. Control the perception, and drive on.

Those feeding largely at the trough tend to resent being shamed by those less dependent. Not the whole dynamic by any stretch but it's there; see it all the time.

Paslode
02-10-2013, 15:45
And the truth doesn't even need to be remotely involved when reporting!


Unfortunately that's kind of how I see it.

The media has the ability to portray anyone or anything into whatever consumable product they wish. They create Saints and Demons by subjectively picking the facts they choose to promote.

PSM
02-10-2013, 19:04
LAPD hired Dorner after he shot a recruit at the academy...himself.

LAPD hired Dorner was known for years as a borderline case with LAPD; as the Los Angeles Times reported, the day of his disciplinary hearing in 2009, LAPD brass “took the unusual step of summoning armed guards to stand watch at his disciplinary hearing downtown. Those present were nervous that Dorner might do something rash when he learned that he was being stripped of his badge.” People in Dorner’s police training class described him as “one of our problem children.” Dorner apparently shot himself in the hand, and was dismissed from the academy. He joined the force after joining another academy class.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/09/Media-pressures-LAPD-reopen-investigation


Pat

Stiletto11
02-10-2013, 19:48
In the words of Ms Clinton, " who cares?"

SF18C
02-10-2013, 21:00
In the words of Ms Clinton, " who cares?"

I am curious to see what happens on Monday...all the regular 9 to 5'ers go back to work....I wonder if security in the area will be "heightened!"

Dusty
02-11-2013, 04:01
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/02/08/support-growing-for-former-l-a-officer-accused-of-killing-spree/

Dorner for President?

SACRAMENTO (CBS13) – The ex-cop accused of three revenge killings left behind a long manifesto outlining all of his grievances and observations.

That manifesto has given investigators some clues, but they still don’t know where is Christopher Dorner.

Law enforcement spent four hours searching his mom’s Orange County home. They took out 10 grocery bags filled with evidence.

Dorner lost his job with the Los Angeles Police Department in 2008. His manifesto vows revenge for that; and, surprisingly, thousands of people actually support him.

It’s hard to believe but there are those out there who sympathize with the man targeting police officers.

One Facebook page is proclaiming Dorner for president. “We propose electing a man who could no longer sit idly by and watch as malicious tyrants abuse the innocent.”

The description on “We Are All Chris Dorner” chillingly says, “Yes, this is war.”

Nearly 3,000 people like the page “I Support Christopher Jordan Dorner.”

CBS13 posted a simple question: Why? Why support a man wanted for at least three killings and the author of a murderous manifesto promising to target cops?

One sympathizer wrote us, “Because something needs to be done about the long known corruption of not only the LAPD, but several agencies.”

Snip

Old Dog New Trick
02-11-2013, 04:27
Jeebus Christ. I read the whole uncensored version of this person's manifesto and alls I can say is he is a bonafide schizophrenic sociopath. He's got inadequacies that range from racial issues, gay issues, title issues and personality issues, social responsibility and social norms, to downright hostility issues towards anyone and everyone that's ever had anything to say about him other than saying - "good job, good job."

Mention the word "nigger" and this guy is ready to punch, kick, choke, or kill in the name of his fantasy of justice for all black people.

He goes on to say his mother and sister and all his friends abandoned him because of what the LAPD did or didn't do. He did it all to himself, no one else is to blame!

We had a name for people like him, it's called being "thin skinned" can't take criticism of any kind even if joking around.

It's scary that both the Navy and the LAPD could not evaluate the danger this lunatic posed over the last eleven years...how he ever got past psych evals shows a weakness in the evaluation process. Maybe because he studied psychology in college he duped everyone, I don't know, but he is certifiably insane.

He can't write worth shit, either. Maybe he was drunk when he wrote this diatribe but the whole thing is grade school level...

Anyway, this guy is a f*cking nutcase and a homicidal maniac that isn't even true to his own words...he shot at and killed cops that are not LAPD. In fact he has not shot at any LAPD officers and only killed the daughter of the one guy that stood up for him.

If this a$$hole wasn't fired for "not lying" he sure as hell would be fired for assaulting another officer and endangering everyone else in the van that day...not to mention having an "accidental discharge" of his weapon!

My military experience says he's full of shit and overcompensating for his own glorification of being a badass which I highly doubt he has any capability of executing. This f*cker watched one too many movies like, "Act of Valor" or "Man on Fire."

He's f*cked and he knows it... (God, I hope I'm right and nobody else dies while this psychopath is on the lose...)

airbornediver
02-11-2013, 06:14
In my mind, no need to wonder, it all depends if the "cause" has the media behind them. Look at the Occupy vs Tea Party demonstrations.

I'm sure if MSNBC was covering Ruby Ridge today = crazy tea partly zealots,
Waco TX = crazy religious zealots, the Montana Freemen = crazy separatist zealots.

So based on the past I am pretty sure that any resistance in New York state against the new NY gun laws will be "reported" as a bunch of crazy gun nuts!



Government Officials Predicting “Waco-Style Standoff” In Response To Obama Gun Confiscation
http://govtslaves.info/government-officials-predicting-waco-style-standoff-in-response-to-obama-gun-confiscation/

Are you saying the Waco people weren't a batshit crazy religious cult? :confused:

SF18C
02-11-2013, 08:19
Are you saying the Waco people weren't a batshit crazy religious cult? :confused:

I don’t wish to derail this thread on the details of the Waco Massacre but…

While they may have been a batshit crazy religious cult, please refer the 1st Amendment. And for the BATF to conduct a 50 day siege on a "compound" (notice the media called it a compound and not a ranch) the end up killing 76 Americans over the possibility that they had "modified AR-15 lower receivers" is a bit excessive in my view. The BATF could have just arrested the SOB in town, where he went every week! But the BATF wanted a “spectacular” media event….why do you think the whole thing was on TV, someone had to tell the reporters to be there????

There are a lot of “cults & religious sects” that I think are bat shit crazy…but it is not my place to judge those that proclaim a faith and as long as their “religion” does not harm others then I would guess they are free to worship whatever deity they wish in this country.

I cant explain the Jewish tradition to cut the end of a baby boys dick off!

Something as simple as Lent, where Christians pay 40 days of penance through self-denial after over indulging (Fat Tuesday) in what they plan to give up! However, differing Christian sects can’t even agree on how to count the 40 days!

Warren Jeffs thinks God told him to have sex with little girls…yeah lock his ass up!

While I despise Fred Phelps and the Westboro Church, they stay within the ”boundaries” of the law. I still hope he and everyone in his “chuch” catch some type of airborne AIDS!!!


Bottom line: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

airbornediver
02-11-2013, 17:11
Ahh ok, I thought you were saying that the Branch Davidians at Waco weren't batshit crazy.

mark46th
02-11-2013, 17:24
David Koresh liked little girls as much as Warren Jeffs. One of the witnesses was a 14 year old girl who told of him having sex with her when she was 10 years old...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-07-20/news/9507200155_1_kiri-jewell-branch-davidian-waco

Pete
02-11-2013, 17:27
David Koresh liked little girls as much as Warren Jeffs. One of the witnesses was a 14 year old girl who told of him having sex with her when she was 10 years old...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-07-20/news/9507200155_1_kiri-jewell-branch-davidian-waco

And they didn't pick him up in town because.................

And they had the press on station because.................

Lets just say the Waco Event was F'ed up from the start - and it was a government operation.

ironyoshi
02-11-2013, 19:27
I read a version of the manifesto that was redacted to preserve anonymity for some of the people he addresses. It wasn't disturbing because of how crazy he is, although there is that, but more because of how similar he sounds to a lot of people on the internet. Wishing a slow and painful death on people? Cult of personality with TV celebrities? Par for the course.

ironyoshi
02-11-2013, 19:37
And they didn't pick him up in town because.................


I watched the Discovery documentary on Ruby Ridge recently. Same question there, of course.

I guess all those movies about inbred hillbilly serial killers tend to have an effect after a while. A lot of people these days don't have any experience with small-towners, so they substitute that kind of picture. I guess it was the same in those days too.

69harley
02-11-2013, 20:14
And they didn't pick him up in town because.................

And they had the press on station because.................

Lets just say the Waco Event was F'ed up from the start - and it was a government operation.

They had some people from Ft. Bragg there as well.

SF18C
02-11-2013, 20:15
They had some people from Ft. Bragg there as well.

And a CEV from Ft Hood...not sure what you mean.

Streck-Fu
02-11-2013, 21:01
3rd random truck destroyed by Torrance PD gunfire....Skinny white guy not hit by gunfire but injured from being rammed....LINK (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/11/david-perdue-christopher-dorner_n_2662417.html?ir=Crime)

CORRECTION: This is NOT a new incident. It is another report of the previously reported 2nd shooting. The two women delivery papers was the first incident while this is the second. The article red differently and seem to report a 3rd incident. This is not true.

Ape Man
02-11-2013, 21:07
I watched the Discovery documentary on Ruby Ridge recently. Same question there, of course.

I guess all those movies about inbred hillbilly serial killers tend to have an effect after a while. A lot of people these days don't have any experience with small-towners, so they substitute that kind of picture. I guess it was the same in those days too.

IMHO Ruby Ridge was a worse miscarriage of justice then WACO. If the allegations about David Koresh are true, he should have been taken in. Pedophile is a serious offense against the laws of God and Man. That does not mean that they should have done it the way they did by any means. But the guy was the worth the investment of federal time even if the way they did it was all wrong.

But in the case of Ruby Ridge, you have paranoid guy who was enticed into selling an agent a sawed off shot gun to gain his family needed funds. The charges were offered to be dropped if he agreed to turn snitch because the agent never really saw Weaver a serious threat. He was given a false court date to show up. They then sent guys in camouflage who shot the boy's dog in front of him while he was armed (and it is unclear if they even identified themselves).

I could go on and on. But I don't think Ruby Ridge can be compare to Waco in terms of the guilt of the principle target or in terms of how messed up the operation was.

Requiem
02-11-2013, 22:52
3rd random truck destroyed by Torrance PD gunfire....Skinny white guy not hit by gunfire but injured from being rammed....LINK (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/11/david-perdue-christopher-dorner_n_2662417.html?ir=Crime)

And then there are the guys that actually LOOK like Dorner...

S.

ironyoshi
02-11-2013, 23:03
I could go on and on. But I don't think Ruby Ridge can be compare to Waco in terms of the guilt of the principle target or in terms of how messed up the operation was.

Yeah, I agree. For all the reasons you listed.

ddoering
02-12-2013, 03:52
3rd random truck destroyed by Torrance PD gunfire....Skinny white guy not hit by gunfire but injured from being rammed....LINK (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/11/david-perdue-christopher-dorner_n_2662417.html?ir=Crime)

And these are the guys that are allowed to have assault rifles.... I guess they will keep trying to kill people until, thru the process of elimination, they get their man.

Streck-Fu
02-12-2013, 07:12
I guess they will keep trying to kill people until, thru the process of elimination, they get their man.

They are not even doing that successfully. Thankfully no one has been killed by these guys so far but certainly not for a lack of trying. How many rounds have they fired with only one minor injury resulting....?

Dohhunter
02-12-2013, 07:37
...

69harley
02-12-2013, 08:08
And a CEV from Ft Hood...not sure what you mean.

My point is, there are lots of rocks being thrown at the feds for screwing this up, while the SOF community is being given a pass on this. True, the feds ran the op, but there were some senior SOF personnel on scene.

Pete
02-12-2013, 08:36
My point is, there are lots of rocks being thrown at the feds for screwing this up, while the SOF community is being given a pass on this. True, the feds ran the op, but there were some senior SOF personnel on scene.

A CEV is not a SOF ride.

So you're saying Waco is SOF's fault? Or the military's as a whole?

Give us the short version of what SOF did the last day.

69harley
02-12-2013, 09:06
A CEV is not a SOF ride.

So you're saying Waco is SOF's fault? Or the military's as a whole?

Give us the short version of what SOF did the last day.

Never implied the CEV was a SOF ride. And Waco was definately not SOFs fault. But their were SOF personnel on site, from Bragg, advising the ground commander.

ZonieDiver
02-12-2013, 09:11
Never implied the CEV was a SOF ride. And Waco was definately not SOFs fault. But their were SOF personnel on site, from Bragg, advising the ground commander.

Is there a source for this?

Who requested this SOF advice? What advice was given? Was the advice listened to, or ignored?

mark46th
02-12-2013, 09:11
Brush- I agree...

SF18C
02-12-2013, 09:13
Never implied the CEV was a SOF ride. And Waco was definately not SOFs fault. But their were SOF personnel on site, from Bragg, advising the ground commander.

Being in an advising role is not the same thing as condoning it.
Hell for all we know those advisors may have been advising the BATF/FBI to pull back and deescalate due to the grand catastrofuck that was pending.


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2165/3534653645_6e26e4489b_z.jpg?zz=1#Waco%20Tank%20640 x400


I not even sure you can even blame the poor 12F that was most likely driving the CEV.

69harley
02-12-2013, 09:21
Is there a source for this?

Who requested this SOF advice? What advice was given? Was the advice listened to, or ignored?

PM Sent

MR2
02-12-2013, 09:35
I not even sure you can even blame the poor 12F that was most likely driving the CEV.

As I understand from reports at the time, the FeeBees requested the CEV because it had the best armor of anything in the inventory. The FBI was trained up on operating the CEV and did all of the clearing of vehicles in the parking lot (flattened them) as well as the wall breaching later on.

Pete
02-12-2013, 09:57
What? They didn't want to play with the Main Gun?

I liked the 165mm short barreled demolition gun the best.

But as a side note - Waco is far from the target of this thread. Let's get back on target.

PSM
02-12-2013, 10:31
And these are the guys that are allowed to have assault rifles.... I guess they will keep trying to kill people until, thru the process of elimination, they get their man.

What's the problem with TPD? :eek:

Hey LHC...keep you head down! ;)

Pat

Team Sergeant
02-12-2013, 10:41
Is there a source for this?

Who requested this SOF advice? What advice was given? Was the advice listened to, or ignored?

I'll be your source. SF Command testified before congress on Waco. The SF guys were asked to train up the ATF for a mass casualty situation. That was our involvment, period. And "other" SOF units were in fact advising the feds. Not Special Forces soldiers. The ATF should have never gone in after the element of surprise was compromised. They went ahead anyway and got their asses handed to them. Idiots & amateurs in my opinion.

Five-O
02-12-2013, 11:02
I'll be your source. SF Command testified before congress on Waco. The SF guys were asked to train up the ATF for a mass casualty situation. That was our involvment, period. And "other" SOF units were in fact advising the feds. Not Special Forces soldiers. The ATF should have never gone in after the element of surprise was compromised. They went ahead anyway and got their asses handed to them. Idiots & amateurs in my opinion.

I am not Monday morning quarter backing when I say the whole raid was poorly planned and horrifically executed. Problem with a number of police tactical units is that they think they are infantry/SOF type organization.... Which we/ they are certainly not. That whole Mindset and way of thinking Frustrates me and is quite frankly a little embarassing. The entire purpose of a police tactical unit is to save lives. Period. Everything we do , every movement , every piece of gear, every school we go to should have that imperative in mind. Anything else in amatuer and cowboyish. The whole Waco thing has been beaten to death and obviously Koresh(sp) should have been picked up at the local 7-11 when he was buying his lottery tickets.

These le involved shootings of uninvolved citizens needs to stop immediately. There is no reasonable justification and it really does shock the conscience ....IMHO

Richard
02-12-2013, 11:23
Bet the LAPD loves this one... :rolleyes:

Richard :munchin

UWOA (RIP)
02-12-2013, 11:54
I am not Monday morning quarter backing when I say the whole raid was poorly planned and horrifically executed. Problem with a number of police tactical units is that they think they are infantry/SOF type organization.... Which we/ they are certainly not. That whole Mindset and way of thinking Frustrates me and is quite frankly a little embarassing. The entire purpose of a police tactical unit is to save lives. Period. Everything we do , every movement , every piece of gear, every school we go to should have that imperative in mind. Anything else in amatuer and cowboyish. The whole Waco thing has been beaten to death and obviously Koresh(sp) should have been picked up at the local 7-11 when he was buying his lottery tickets.

These le involved shootings of uninvolved citizens needs to stop immediately. There is no reasonable justification and it really does shock the conscience ....IMHO



A police tactical unit DOES NOT exist to just save lives! It has a variety of missions (barrIcaded suspect and hIgh rIsk warrant servIce to name just two) predicated on its ability to apply other than conventional police tactics and techniques. The problem arises when they deploy, but do not assess, relying on "special" weapons rather than tailored tactics based on terrain and the threat to carry the day. Just MHO based on starting and leading my department's SWAT and EOD teams and planning multi-jurisdictional SWAT and EOD response for the 10th Pan American Games.

Five-O
02-12-2013, 12:11
A police tactical unit DOES NOT exist to just save lives! It has a variety of missions (barrIcaded suspect and hIgh rIsk warrant servIce to name just two) predicated on its ability to apply other than conventional police tactics and techniques. The problem arises when they deploy, but do not assess, relying on "special" weapons rather than tailored tactics based on terrain and the threat to carry the day. Just MHO based on starting and leading my department's SWAT and EOD teams and planning multi-jurisdictional SWAT and EOD response for the 10th Pan American Games.


I have no objection to your above statement. You have misinterpreted the intent of my which is clearly my fault. Regardless of the task at hand ( and we may end up splitting hairs here), preservation of human life (innocent victims, police, suspect) is first priority. This priority of life is continually assessed during all phases of an LE tactical job. During a hostage rescue, during a barricated gunman, during a high risk or routine warrant service priority of life is always on the minds of my bosses and teamates and obviously myself. That clearly did not happen in Waco.

spherojon
02-12-2013, 13:16
If I was a betting man, I would put Chris somewhere in the Owens Valley. I bet he found some "friends" up there who don't like LA or the government.

Here is a little background on it.
http://www.history.com/topics/los-angeles-aqueduct

I have been up there, and the folk there don't take kindly to government.

The only way in my mind that this guy is still on the loose is that he has more than one person helping him. Just my .02 cents.

Edit: I didn't like the second link.

PSM
02-12-2013, 15:28
Self defense in Los Angeles:

:D

Pete
02-12-2013, 15:37
Looks like "not long now"

AP: Law Enforcement Source Confirms Carjacking, Shooting Suspect Is Christopher Dorner

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/12/authorities-responding-to-big-bear-home-on-report-of-hostage-situation-unknown-if-connected-to-dorner/

"BIG BEAR (CBSLA.com) — Two officers have reportedly been shot while pursuing a carjacking and home-invasion suspect in the Angelus Oaks area of Big Bear.

A law enforcement source confirms to the Associated Press that the suspect is triple-murder suspect Christopher Dorner..........................."

lath_hoy
02-12-2013, 16:02
This could come to a peaceful ending only if the Rev. Jackson gets involved.

ChuckG
02-12-2013, 16:04
Someone call Barry. He will use a drone on the house.

Dusty
02-12-2013, 16:19
Charlie Sheen and one and a half other men are up there, negotiating.

PSM
02-12-2013, 16:20
You can listen live here: SBSD scanner. (http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?feedId=13038)

Pat

lath_hoy
02-12-2013, 16:21
Historically disgruntled employees embark on "man made disaster" scenarios @ the work place. Conventional wisdom would dictate that a workplace rampage would be hampered when all the coworker's are armed.

nousdefions
02-12-2013, 17:28
Charlie Sheen and one and a half other men are up there, negotiating.

I thought Chalie was the one half man.....

Dusty
02-12-2013, 17:34
I thought Chalie was the one half man.....

You may be right. I've never seen the show. I figured it was two guys and a transgender or something, judging from the title.

spherojon
02-12-2013, 17:53
They just reported one of the two LEOs died from the shoot out earlier. RIP

PSM
02-12-2013, 18:18
Cabin's on fire following tear gas. One shot fired inside.

Pat

Lan
02-12-2013, 18:25
Reporter: "I heard the Deputy who died was shot in the face?"

San Bernadino County Sheriff: "I am not going to comment on where he was shot"

Why is where he was shot important? Seriously?! People are so stupid!

:mad:

Dusty
02-12-2013, 18:29
Reporter: "I heard the Deputy who died was shot in the face?"

San Bernadino County Sheriff: "I am not going to comment on where he was shot"

Why is where he was shot important? Seriously?! People are so stupid!

:mad:

Seriously. What do you expect from an asshole who makes a living sticking its nose in other people's business in order to rat 'em out and get noticed?

MR2
02-12-2013, 18:32
Seriously. What do you expect from an asshole who makes a living sticking its nose in other people's business in order to rat 'em out and get noticed?

I guess that would make him a 'professional' asshole.

MR2
02-12-2013, 18:34
Oops, my bad - journalists are no longer considered "professional".

drivfast
02-12-2013, 18:36
Since he abandoned his truck and burned it with good weapons and equipment inside, I am making a guess he humped it into the woods with whatever he could carry. Since he is allegedly in a gunfight with LEOs and Feds, I'm curious how much ammo he has. I doubt he is loaded for a sustained firefight. It's a shame they keep talking about all his "extensive" training and experience. He has never served an hour in an actual combat zone from what I have seen. Makes every guy who has carried a weapon into combat look bad. Even though the media is making him out to be a ninja, from what I read, he's no killer and an "expert marksman" badge doesn't mean you are an expert marksman. I doubt he's keeping an even keel and a cool head either, considering he crashes every vehicle he gets into. Godspeed to men on the ground dealing with this dude.

Utah Bob
02-12-2013, 18:36
I hope the last thing that goes through his mind is a .308 round.:mad:

cbtengr
02-12-2013, 18:45
I hope the last thing that goes through his mind is a .308 round.:mad:

Amen to that!

Lan
02-12-2013, 18:55
Seriously. What do you expect from an asshole who makes a living sticking its nose in other people's business in order to rat 'em out and get noticed?

Snitches get stitches!

Dusty
02-12-2013, 19:09
If he gets burned alive, how long 'til the Waco comparisons start?

(Shout out to Paslode.)

Streck-Fu
02-12-2013, 19:09
Who started the fire? Dorner or the cops?

Sigaba
02-12-2013, 19:20
While I'm not particularly fond of members of the Fourth Estate, I don't take umbrage with a journalist doing his job -- asking questions and reporting the answers.

IMO, thus far, the media in the L.A. area have been very supportive in its reporting of this story--to the point of presenting the LEOs' POV, helping with the manhunt, and not asking the kinds of questions they otherwise might.

NurseTim
02-12-2013, 19:34
While I'm not particularly fond of members of the Fourth Estate, I don't take umbrage with a journalist doing his job -- asking questions and reporting the answers.

IMO, thus far, the media in the L.A. area have been very supportive in its reporting of this story--to the point of presenting the LEOs' POV, helping with the manhunt, and not asking the kinds of questions they otherwise might.

Maybe not the August of sources, but with the allegations is purports, who else would report it?

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/01/cnn-exposed-emmy-winning-former-cnn-journalist-amber-lyon-blows-the-whistle-simultaneously-answers-one-of-my-questions/

Sigaba
02-12-2013, 19:38
Maybe not the August of sources, but with the allegations is purports, who else would report it?

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/01/cnn-exposed-emmy-winning-former-cnn-journalist-amber-lyon-blows-the-whistle-simultaneously-answers-one-of-my-questions/What does the link you've provided have to do with the events unfolding in Southern California or the reporting thereof?

Richard
02-12-2013, 20:12
What does the link you've provided have to do with the events unfolding in Southern California or the reporting thereof?

What Sigaba said.

FWIW - the reporting up here in NorCal has also been very "above board" in that it's been very straight forward reporting and supportive of the LEA's efforts to bring this guy to justice as quickly as possible.

Richard :munchin

The Reaper
02-12-2013, 20:19
Who started the fire? Dorner or the cops?

Most tear gas is capable of starting fires inside structures.

Some gas grenades are really good at it.

Most military people here have seen the heat from a smoke grenade, and the extreme heat of an HC White Smoke.

When the gas goes in, you have three choices.

1. Try to put out the fire faster than the cops can ignite it.
2. Come out.
3. Die in place.

You can make option three go faster with accelerants.

If they think you are armed and hostile, the fire department response may be delayed significantly for tactical reasons.

TR

Dusty
02-12-2013, 20:25
While I'm not particularly fond of members of the Fourth Estate, I don't take umbrage with a journalist doing his job -- asking questions and reporting the answers.



I wouldn't either, if that's all they did.

Journalists, for the major part, get into that business because they want to "change the world, make the world a better place", blah-and get a Pulitzer.

Don't waste your time with a succinct, well thought-out but voluminous reply, friend, because I will never buy into anything different. I know them, firsthand.

(Note: This opinion excludes right-wing FOX news journalists). :D

ZonieDiver
02-12-2013, 20:32
(Note: This opinion excludes right-wing FOX news journalists).

Do they still have some of those at FOX these days?;)

SF18C
02-12-2013, 20:34
Do they still have some of those at FOX these days?;)

Agree...sometimes I watch FOX and think CNN is on!

Old Dog New Trick
02-12-2013, 20:38
I hope the last thing that goes through his mind is a .308 round.:mad:

Gee Bob, I was kinda hopin' he'd have a misfire under those circumstances. :p

Don't let the chicken sh!t coward take the easy way out. :rolleyes:

Drinking some good scotch tonight! :D

Sigaba
02-12-2013, 20:50
I wouldn't either, if that's all they did.

Journalists, for the major part, get into that business because they want to "change the world, make the world a better place", blah-and get a Pulitzer.

Don't waste your time with a succinct, well thought-out but voluminous reply, friend, because I will never buy into anything different. I know them, firsthand.

(Note: This opinion excludes right-wing FOX news journalists). :DQ: What's the difference between a broadcast journalist and a prostitute?

A: Dignity

Q: (Did that sound bitter?)

Jokes aside--and that was a joke; as everyone knows I'm not bitter-- I think the Fourth Estate has gone far off the rails. If journalists spent more time getting the story right rather than getting the story first, America would be a better place and the newspaper industry wouldn't be in such bad decline.

My $0.02.

longrange1947
02-12-2013, 20:58
I'm going to hate myself for this, but Sigaba, I AGREE with you. :D

ZonieDiver
02-12-2013, 21:00
I've met Sigaba, and shared alcoholic beverages with him, and can attest that he is NOT bitter!:D

He gets cold easily, but he is NOT bitter!

Richard
02-12-2013, 21:11
I've met Sigaba, and shared alcoholic beverages with him, and can attest that he is NOT bitter!:D

He gets cold easily, but he is NOT bitter!

And I'm not going there...BUT...the t-e-m-p-t-a-t-i-o-n-i-s-g-r-e-a-t.... :rolleyes:

Richard :munchin

The Reaper
02-12-2013, 21:15
We now return you to the original topic....

TR

Richard
02-12-2013, 21:25
Fugitive Ex-cop Dorner Reportedly Dead After Standoff With Police

The body of shooting suspect Christopher Dorner, the subject of a week-long manhunt, has been removed from a cabin destroyed by fire this afternoon, according to multiple sources. The Associated Press, ABC News, CNN and Los Angeles Times are reporting the news, with an AP alert specifically stating that a "charred body found in rubble of burned cabin in Southern California mountains," is reported to be that of Dorner. In addition, The Los Angeles Times reports that the LAPD is preparing to hold a press conference to announce the news that they have recovered what is believed to be Dorner's body.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/report-ex-cop-fugitive-shoot-police-213309749.html

And so it goes...

Richard

PSM
02-12-2013, 21:40
Fugitive Ex-cop Dorner Reportedly Dead After Standoff With Police

The body of shooting suspect Christopher Dorner, the subject of a week-long manhunt, has been removed from a cabin destroyed by fire this afternoon, according to multiple sources. The Associated Press, ABC News, CNN and Los Angeles Times are reporting the news, with an AP alert specifically stating that a "charred body found in rubble of burned cabin in Southern California mountains," is reported to be that of Dorner. In addition, The Los Angeles Times reports that the LAPD is preparing to hold a press conference to announce the news that they have recovered what is believed to be Dorner's body.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/report-ex-cop-fugitive-shoot-police-213309749.html

And so it goes...

Richard

Well, they found a body. Being a crispy critter, it will take a while for a positive ID. That said, he was right, he's going to miss Shark Week! ;)

Pat

alelks
02-12-2013, 21:41
Well his buddy who owns the cabin is going to be REALLY ticked off.

mark46th
02-12-2013, 21:48
They started putting tear gas through the windows about 90 minutes before dark. There was no way they were going to deal with him after sunset...

MR2
02-12-2013, 21:50
One often hears the phrase "from my cold dead hands".

For me it is a philosophical statement. For some it is literal.

But in practice, it usually works out as "from his charred dead hands".

What is Phastu for "from my cold dead hands"?

What is a JDAM again?

Something that took several dozen rifle butts for me to learn in SERE was the concept of picking battles and learning to survive the day, to endure and fight the next day.

Planning. PACE.


Just Saying :munchin

spherojon
02-12-2013, 22:09
Well, I do not believe he burned alive. On the scanner I heard an LEO report "single shot fired in the cabin." Then it went silent and you hear another LEO "ammo is igniting in the cabin."

I believed at that point he took his own life. It was silent for a little while longer and right before they turned off the Internet scanner feed you hear them staging fire and medics. This all happened around 4PM. If I'm saying to much admin delete this post.

25U
02-12-2013, 22:29
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/police-checking-reports-that-ex-lapd-officer-dorner-sighted/

The story has changed again...

bluebb
02-12-2013, 22:37
Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that motha down
Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!

NurseTim
02-13-2013, 03:39
What Sigaba said.

FWIW - the reporting up here in NorCal has also been very "above board" in that it's been very straight forward reporting and supportive of the LEA's efforts to bring this guy to justice as quickly as possible.

Richard :munchin

I think Richard got the gist of the post. If the article is to be believed then any reporting is suspect, at least from that news agency. 1 MSM can easily sell a lie.

It's not without president. Look at all that journalism didn't report on fdr.

So I am suspect of what the news outlets report. If they tell me the sky is blue, I still pop my head out the door to confirm.

miclo18d
02-13-2013, 06:22
Well, they found a body. Being a crispy critter, it will take a while for a positive ID. That said, he was right, he's going to miss Shark Week! ;)

Pat

Missing shark week!!!

That's the best one I've heard all week and I have been making jokes about Charley Sheen, Lisa Lampanelli, and Michele Obama's bangs the whole time.

I also had a thought that because this guy leaned "slightly" to the left on his views of the second amendment, that for me, he made a great poster child for why we DO need assault rifles with full capacity magazines. Just think what one Californian with an AR or AK could have done to stop this psycho.

Dusty
02-13-2013, 06:31
It's not without president. Look at all that journalism didn't report on fdr.


lol If you put it that way...

Paslode
02-13-2013, 08:44
I think they got the right guy, and in all likelihood the burn plan saved lives, saved the taxpayers of California the expense of a show trial and a life time of room and board in Federal Housing.

But LA has a bad rep and they just offed the key witness in recent 4 murders whom had previous grievances with LAPD's conduct. And with Dorner gone it's a one sided story and the cases are closed.


Another perspective....

If Dorner had allegedly killed 4 people in an area and a group of neighbors from a watch group, armed with weapons and hicap mags had cornered him in a house and set it ablaze, regardless of their intentions, there would be hell to pay. If any of the neighborhood watch group were over heard saying burn the m-fer there would be more hell to pay. If they shot up several neighbors cars containing occupants it would get even uglier.

The media would portray it as vigilante justice and a neighborhood watch group as a vengeful lynch mob. The local LEO's would give interviews stating that the neighborhood watch group should have called LE to handle the matter with their trained negotiators and that everyone guilty or not has the right to due process. Now with the bad guy gone it is going to be more difficult to put together the events.

And all those that participated in the house warming party would be prosecuted for a laundry list of crimes including manslaughter or premeditated murder.

mark46th
02-13-2013, 08:54
The police did not kill him, he took his own life...

ZonieDiver
02-13-2013, 09:06
But LA has a bad rep and they just offed the key witness in recent 4 murders whom had previous grievances with LAPD's conduct. And with Dorner gone it's a one sided story and the cases are closed.

Would you mind fleshing out your statement above? I get a little confused at times - it's an age thing. Are you saying that the four persons murdered, allegedly by Dorrner, had grievances with LAPD's conduct, or are you referring to Dorner's grievances?

As for the rest of your post:

LEAs are not the same as neighborhood watch associations.
Depending on location, availability, and response time of LEA - in the scenario you posit below, it WOULD be "vigilante justice" or a "vengeful lynch mob" - wouldn't it?

If Dorner had allegedly killed 4 people in an area and a group of neighbors from a watch group, armed with weapons and hicap mags had cornered him in a house and set it ablaze...

Dorner had many opportunities to avail himself of due process. He chose the path he walked. How do you think the final situation should have been handled?

Utah Bob
02-13-2013, 09:13
And the question on CNN this morning...

"Does the Dorner case teach us anything about guns?"
Sheeesh!:rolleyes:
Not only Shark Week but he missed Justifed last night.
Ironic eh?;)

Utah Bob
02-13-2013, 09:14
The police did not kill him, he took his own life...

I was hoping he'd come running out like Butch and Sundance.

Richard
02-13-2013, 09:38
But LA has a bad rep and they just offed the key witness in recent 4 murders whom had previous grievances with LAPD's conduct. And with Dorner gone it's a one sided story and the cases are closed.

Confusing, but I assume you're talking about Doerner's grievances and not the murders.

The Los Angeles Police Department is reopening the case surrounding fugitive Christopher Dorner's termination from the force, Cmdr. Andrew Smith announced Saturday during a news conference.

LAPD Chief Charlie Beck "is not opening it because of the accusations or because of the musings of someone who is a multiple murderer now," Smith said. "He’s doing it because he wants to ensure that the public knows that the Los Angeles Police Department is fair and transparent."

Smith said witnesses will be re-interviewed and the investigation into Dorner's firing will get a "fresh set of eyes."

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/LAPD-to-Re-Open-Case-into-Fugitive-Christopher-Dorners-Termination-190555681.html


If Dorner had allegedly killed 4 people in an area and a group of neighbors from a watch group, armed with weapons and hicap mags had cornered him in a house and set it ablaze, regardless of their intentions, there would be hell to pay.

As well there should be IMO. Their 'mission' should be to identify, notify the proper authorities, and seek to reasonably contain him to prevent his doing further harm to others or to escape - not go in after him like a vigilante mob seeking revenge.

Richard :munchin

miclo18d
02-13-2013, 10:17
I was hoping he'd come running out like Butch and Sundance.

Despite what the press would have us believe, he was just a Naval Reserve Naval Intelligence officer. I doubt his unit would have the funds nor he have the time to become some "High Speed Black Ops Ninja." I'm also fairly positive that he didn't get his "survival training" at Basic Officers Course (or Navy equivalent). All his crazy talk about being a "high Speed" intel guy, talk about IMINT, HUMINT, GEOINT and TS/SCI was him trying to make himself out to be special. I'll bet a majority of the people that served on this website have had TS/SCI.....Whoooopdie Freekin' Do! It means you can be trusted with information, it doesn't make you James Bond. Talking crap about Barrett .50 Cals and SA-7 Grails just made me laugh harder!

I would suspect his performance in the LAPD was probably similar. Average beat cop. No time on any special team or anything like that (I'm going out on a limb since I don't know his service records).

We have all seen these types. You know the guy/guys at Selection that when you get to the huts have a crowd around them and they are talking big sh*t about how they are going to smoke the course and get a 300 APFT, roadmarching is all they did back at their unit, .....Ad nauseam. When you got back after the first days training you never even saw them as they had already done the Dufflebag Drag over to the Camouflage Hut and their fan clubs weren't too far behind them with LandNav or the first day of Team Week.

I think he went out just like sh*t talkers at selection. Like big stinky crusty vaginas. He couldn't even live up to his manifesto. I think he lit the cabin on fire and popped himself Once he knew he was surrounded. Obviously he never learned about breaking out of encirclements.

You know....I'm glad he missed Shark Week....AND Justified!

UWOA (RIP)
02-13-2013, 11:04
Most tear gas is capable of starting fires inside structures.

Some gas grenades are really good at it.

Most military people here have seen the heat from a smoke grenade, and the extreme heat of an HC White Smoke.

When the gas goes in, you have three choices.

1. Try to put out the fire faster than the cops can ignite it.
2. Come out.
3. Die in place.

You can make option three go faster with accelerants.

If they think you are armed and hostile, the fire department response may be delayed significantly for tactical reasons.

TR

There are tear gas rounds that won't start a fire, but they're only about 25% as effective ... and when you're placing 37mm canisters into a target, you leave a signature that makes you a return target ... so in this case, I'll take the more effective CS, thank you. Of course this is always going to open you up to criticism, but since this guy even with his meager skills was able to kill 2 LEOs, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

UWOA (RIP)
02-13-2013, 11:11
Mea culpa.

I've said earlier on this thread that my profile/'intel assessment' of the suspect indicated that he was out of the Big Bear area and probably further east.

I was wrong.

Bad intel won't get you killed ... it's the unfriendly fire that does it ... but there's no use helping the other side.

Mea maxima culpa. (But at least it's over with ....)

PSM
02-13-2013, 11:34
(But at least it's over with ....)

I wouldn't bet on it. I'm sure the revs Jesse and Al will be along shortly to pick up the torch.

Pat

VVVV
02-13-2013, 12:37
Is LAPD going to pay the reward money to the maid who called them?

Family member Jay Hylton told KABC-TV the pair wasn't hurt. The Los Angeles Times reported the women surprised Dorner on Tuesday, and he tied them up and fled in a purple vehicle.

The Times reported that one maid eventually broke free and called police. About a half hour later, the suspect got into gunfights with authorities, one of whom was killed.

Streck-Fu
02-13-2013, 13:07
Is LAPD going to pay the reward money to the maid who called them?

Maybe after the lawsuits from shooting up unrelated vehicles.

Sigaba
02-13-2013, 14:28
FWIW, local news outlets have played audio of LEO radio communications. The comments indicate that the LEOs themselves set the fire.

IRT to Mr. Dormer's skill set, there were conversations between LAPD officials and area journalists about just how dangerous he actually was. That is to say that while the fourth estate reported what some law enforcement PA types were saying about Mr. Dormer, some journalists were doing what journalists do -- ask questions.

IMO, the furious tone of his manifesto achieved the writer's goal of getting others to think he was as well trained and as motivated as the most professional LEOs in L.A.

Three additional remarks. First, I question the viability, credibility, and utility of counterfactual musings over what might have happened had the event played out against a different set of circumstances. To ask "What might have happened if..." before the unanswered questions over what actually happened get answered is one of the worst practices of both the MSM as well as many liberals.

Second, I question the round about comments about the LAPD's "reputation." Upon what information and/or experiences is that perception based? Are the comments based upon an appreciation for the concerns for those in Los Angeles who have been on the wrong side of the LAPD's abuses of power--or do the comments merely reflect an appropriation of those concerns?

Third, Two and a Half Men is a situation comedy that explores men's fears of dying alone while cloaking those concerns with dick jokes.

Dusty
02-13-2013, 15:28
Third, Two and a Half Men is a situation comedy that explores men's fears of dying alone while cloaking those concerns with dick jokes.

:D Thanks for clearing that one up.

MR2
02-13-2013, 15:37
Third, Two and a Half Men is a situation comedy that explores men's fears of dying alone while cloaking those concerns with dick jokes.

I thought the show was about Two and a Half dicks who were jokes.

Paslode
02-13-2013, 15:40
As well there should be IMO. Their 'mission' should be to identify, notify the proper authorities, and seek to reasonably contain him to prevent his doing further harm to others or to escape - not go in after him like a vigilante mob seeking revenge.

Richard :munchin

And that would be as you have said on many occasions working within the framework, letting the system work and letting calmer minds prevail.

But the LEO's comms appear to indicate a vigilante mob seeking revenge. And FTR I likely be of similar mind if some nut killed some of my friends or family, but that is not how the system is supposed to work.

They had him contained in what appears to be a remote location and there is the possibility at least one thermal imaging capable eye in the sky was on site, which I assume could tabs on him inside and outside the structure. And they put several canisters of whatever into the building which I assume had to be distributed by hand, in close proximity by gun or a vehicle.

Did expedience and revenge trump due process.....time will tell.


I am not defending Dorner and I do believe the world is a better place today without him, however I do believe the burning establishes a poor precedent.

ZonieDiver
02-13-2013, 15:53
precedent

Thanks for that! Others, please take note.

Given the scenario you propose, what would be your reaction - and that of the media and public - if he had somehow been able to escape under the cover of darkness?

Perhaps that, too, was on the LEOs minds.

Dusty
02-13-2013, 15:57
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/02/13/CNN-Panel-Dorner-Alleged-Murder-Spree-Exciting-Like-Denzel-Washington-Movie

Panelists MC Lyte, Jack Moore, Editor of BuzzFeed Sports, Lauren Ashburn, Editor-in-chief at The Daily Download, and Mark Lamont Hill joined Brooke Baldwin on CNN today to talk about the social media support for alleged quadruple killer Christopher Dorner. Ashburn was the only one on the panel who had a problem with the alleged cop killer being celebrated saying that he crossed a line when he began killing people to get his revenge for his alleged grievences. The rest of the panel concluded that Dorner "had a point" and that the unfolding story was theatric. Hill said that the saga was "exciting," "like 'Django Unchained' in real life," and Dorner was similar to a "super hero." Moore said that it was like watching a "Denzel Washington movie" and that the social media support was just Internet "weirdness." Lyte concluded that because "children" were being killed by police brutality this event brought about a conversation that should occur. Baldwin agreed and said, "I'm glad we had this conversation."

Snip

Paslode
02-13-2013, 16:11
Would you mind fleshing out your statement above? I get a little confused at times - it's an age thing. Are you saying that the four persons murdered, allegedly by Dorrner, had grievances with LAPD's conduct, or are you referring to Dorner's grievances?

As for the rest of your post:

LEAs are not the same as neighborhood watch associations.
Depending on location, availability, and response time of LEA - in the scenario you posit below, it WOULD be "vigilante justice" or a "vengeful lynch mob" - wouldn't it?



Dorner had many opportunities to avail himself of due process. He chose the path he walked. How do you think the final situation should have been handled?

Dorner grievances with LAPD and he is a key witness in the murder of 4 persons who he allegedly murdered.

You are correct LEA's are not the same as a neighborhood watch assn, they have sworn and oath to protect and serve the community, but that does not make them immune from being a vengeful lynch mob and some of the comms sound like that.

The final solution....something that didn't involve flames and burning.

Pete
02-13-2013, 16:17
He's dead Jim

JimP
02-13-2013, 16:47
Oh man...here we go again with the "due process". AGAIN...explain to me just "what process was due"? This guy was a determined killer. He was NOT interested in playing well with others. Law enforcement is not required to gamble with their lives in attempting to take down a known violent killer.

I liken this to the gnashing of teeth coming from the press when the cops shoot a knife wielding man. The press always say: "Why did you shoot him!!!??? You should have "swarmed" him (as if "swarming" is taught in the academy against knife-wielding lunatics). I always reply - OK...YOU be the first swarmer. That doesn't seem to go over so well with the arm-chair quarterbacks.

This guy was bad news. He was NOT surrendering and he vowed to kill anyone getting in his way. They dealt with the threat appropriately. :lifter

Team Sergeant
02-13-2013, 17:09
Oh man...here we go again with the "due process". AGAIN...explain to me just "what process was due"? This guy was a determined killer. He was NOT interested in playing well with others. Law enforcement is not required to gamble with their lives in attempting to take down a known violent killer.

I liken this to the gnashing of teeth coming from the press when the cops shoot a knife wielding man. The press always say: "Why did you shoot him!!!??? You should have "swarmed" him (as if "swarming" is taught in the academy against knife-wielding lunatics). I always reply - OK...YOU be the first swarmer. That doesn't seem to go over so well with the arm-chair quarterbacks.

This guy was bad news. He was NOT surrendering and he vowed to kill anyone getting in his way. They dealt with the threat appropriately. :lifter

During the Cuban resettlement mission I was called on to be the head sniper for 1-505 Airborne Infantry Battalion. The Cubans were rioting and they had killed one or two of their own. We were sent to quiet them down, when we arrived they got quiet! Again, I was told I would be the "Battalion" sniper as I was the only 1-505 soldier that graduated from the 16 week Special Forces Sniper school.......

As we headed to Ft. Indiantown Gap Pa, to watch Cubans I was briefed no less than 4 times.

Once by my LTC Battalion Commander:
"You will shoot to wound not to kill."

Once by the 82nd JAG (O-6 if I remember):
"You will shoot to wound not to kill."

Once by a one star general upon arriving at Ft. Indiantown Gap Pa:
"You will shoot to wound not to kill."

And finally by a 2 star general:
"You will shoot to wound not to kill."

It's not just the "civilians" that think this way........ had I been a bit more experienced I would have told the general I'd never taken a class in "shooting to wound". I did tell the other snipers if it hit the fan I would do the shooting and they would be no wounding.......

SF18C
02-13-2013, 18:00
If Dorner expected any due process he would have laid his arms down and raised his hands up! He fought the law and LOST.

Those LEOs on location had an active shooter that shot and killed one of the Brothers. Dorner got what he had coming and his death, while spectacular and leaving many questions, saved the state of California a lot of money and time. Does anyone question his guilt????

For those that wanted him captured alive, I present to you: Aurora, Co and Ft Hood. How long will it take justice to be served?
On the other hand: Newtown, CT and Midland City, AL...bad guys dead!

PSM
02-13-2013, 18:47
For those that wanted him captured alive, I present to you: Aurora, Co and Ft Hood. How long will it take justice to be served?
On the other hand: Newtown, CT and Midland City, AL...bad guys dead!

Attached is a complete list of CA's death-row inmates. Too may to count, but I found at least 2 who were sentenced in 1978 and a lot from '81, '82, and '82.

Pat

airbornediver
02-13-2013, 19:21
I think those cops that shot at the wrong truck (and wrong colored guy) should face some penalties, or are cops not taught to identify what they shoot at?

plato
02-13-2013, 19:58
The final solution....something that didn't involve flames and burning.

As an old Baptist.....

That was just a brief preview.

miclo18d
02-14-2013, 06:33
Feb 14, 4:05 AM EST

REPEATED GAFFES ULTIMATELY HALTED EX-COP'S RAMPAGE
BY GREG RISLING AND TAMI ABDOLLAH
ASSOCIATED PRESS

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- He styled himself as a Rambo-like guerrilla, someone trained to outwit and outshoot the police at every turn, and while Christopher Dorner left no doubt he could be unforgivingly violent, when it came to keeping ahead of the law during his deadly rampage, he made one gaffe after another.

The last one - letting one of two people he tied up get loose and call police as he made off in their purple car - tipped authorities he was coming.

The angry ex-cop, who authorities say boasted that police agencies had no chance of capturing him except on his terms, appears to have been killed Tuesday in a fierce gun battle after he wrecked two getaway cars and had to make a last stand in a mountain cabin 80 miles east of Los Angeles.

The cabin went up in flames after authorities launched pyrotechnic tear-gas canisters into it, and authorities were all but certain the charred body found inside afterward was Dorner's. They are waiting for forensic tests to confirm that, but in the meantime San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said Wednesday that authorities consider the hunt over.

Personal effects, including Dorner's driver's license, were found with the body, an official briefed on the search told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing.

Sheriff's deputies were not trying to burn down the cabin with Dorner inside but simply flush him out, McMahon said.

"It was not on purpose," he told reporters Wednesday. "We did not intentionally burn down that cabin to get Mr. Dorner out."

[SNIP]

"I will bring unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in LAPD uniform whether on or off duty," Dorner had boasted. "You will now live the life of the prey."

As it turned out, none of Dorner's four victims were Los Angeles police officers. The other two were a Riverside officer he ambushed at a traffic light and a San Bernardino sheriff's deputy who died in Tuesday's firefight.

"If you're really trying to kill all those people, if that's really your plan, and you're a great tactician, then you don't tell people," said Jim Clemente, a retired behavioral analyst for the FBI. "You don't tell LAPD in advance so they can put a bunch of bodyguards on people. He went and killed soft targets, innocent citizens, who had nothing to do with him at all. He used those to scare people, and he used those sadistically to harm the LAPD officer he wanted to get at."

After the first two killings, authorities say Dorner tried to steal a boat in San Diego and flee to Mexico but the former Navy veteran tangled a rope in the outboard motor and couldn't start it. Then he fled to the Big Bear Lake resort area, where his truck axle broke, stranding him on Thursday, just ahead of a heavy snowstorm.

He may have caught a break when he found refuge in a vacant vacation cabin just across the street from a command post established for the hundreds of officers frantically searching for him.

Despite a search that involved helicopters and bloodhounds and officers going door-to-door checking hundreds of vacation cabins, Dorner remained out of sight until he was discovered at the cabin near the command post Tuesday.

San Bernardino County Deputy Chief Steve Kovensky said searchers had not seen any forced entry when they checked it, but he could not provide details about exactly when that check was made.

Authorities for the most part looked at cabins boarded up for the winter, said Dan Sforza, assistant chief of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, and often didn't enter occupied homes where nothing appeared amiss.

As he fled in the Nissan, Dorner managed to elude authorities for a time by pulling behind two school buses and making a quick turn onto a mountain road. But he crashed the car there and had to steal another.

That's when he confronted Rick Heltebrake, a ranger who takes care of a Boy Scout camp nearby. He was checking the perimeter of the camp for anything out of the ordinary when he saw Dorner emerge from behind some trees. He was dressed in military fatigues and holding a semi-automatic-style rifle.

"I don't want to hurt you. Start walking and take your dog," Heltebrake recalled Dorner saying as he pointed the gun at him. He fled with his 3-year-old Dalmatian, Suni, and immediately called police, who quickly found the suspect again.

This time he opened fire as he drove past a car carrying game wardens looking for him. One of them got out of his own car and returned fire from his high-powered, semi-automatic rifle but apparently missed.

Out of options after crashing the pickup, the driver made a break for a cabin and barricaded himself inside, where he made his last stand.

Dorner's mother released a family statement disavowing her son's actions in his final weeks to the Fox affiliate in Los Angeles.

"It is with great sadness and heavy hearts that we express our deepest sympathies and condolences to anyone that suffered losses or injuries resulting from Christopher's actions. We do not condone Christopher's actions," said the statement Nancy Dorner gave to KTTV-TV. "The family has no further comments and ask that our privacy be respected during this difficult time."

Sheriff's Deputy Jeremiah MacKay was killed during that final gunfight and another deputy was wounded.

MacKay, a detective who had been with the department 15 years, had a wife, 7-year-old daughter and 4-month-old son, sheriff's officials said. He had spoken to AP just last weekend, saying he hoped Dorner could be taken into custody without any more violence.

"You just never know if the guy's going to pop out or where he's going to pop out," MacKay told an AP reporter. "We're hoping this comes to a close without any more casualties."

If Dorner's body is identified, he'll be the final casualty.

This was a pretty good summary of the events, it's pretty long so I snipped out the section talking about the hostages as it really didn't add much to the overall article.

I highlighted some things I found interesting such as:
Being some kind of self proclaimed (and journalist proclaimed) specially trained commando, with the comment from the former FBI behavior specialist.
the fact that the police said they didn't intentionally burn the cabin to the ground, but not mentioning the radio intercepts that quoted them saying burn it down.
The use of the term "high-powered semi-automatic rifle" instead of Assault Rifle, I found to be interesting.


Personally I'm glad he was fricasseed up, but I think that the police have a lot to answer for with the shooting of the 2 women in the truck, the radio comments, and even what set Dorner off in the first place.

My comment on due process will be that you only receive due process if you are in the justice system. That doesn't occur until you've Ben arrested. He did not give himself up so he was never in custody to get due process.

Streck-Fu
02-14-2013, 06:35
When it is plainly heard that at least one officer and probably 2 or more talk about burning the house down ("Burn it." and "Burn that Mother Fuc*er down") do the police need to make it a point that they did not mean to start a fire?

LINK (http://news.yahoo.com/sheriff-cabin-not-purposely-burned-firefight-003121793.html)

kgoerz
02-14-2013, 07:16
Why do they try to cover shit up. Just say the truth. We already lost one cop today. Not going to lose another. So we set the cabin on fire. He had plenty of time to walk out

miclo18d
02-14-2013, 07:26
Why do they try to cover shit up. Just say the truth. We already lost one cop today. Not going to lose another. So we set the cabin on fire. He had plenty of time to walk out


I'll second that.



I remember a night in mountain phase of Ranger School and I was nodding off on security. An RI crawled right up on me and I woke up as he was reaching for my weapon. He asked me, "we're you sleeping?"

To which I replied, "Yes."

He told me to come see him in the morning for a spot report but never took my name. I heard him get the guy near me too but his answer was that he was not sleeping and the RI went nuts on him and took his name for his Major Minus spot (as well as several others). I never went to him in the morning and nothing was said. I knew honesty was always the best policy no matter what after that.

They should have just said it like it was and been done with the controversy.

JimP
02-14-2013, 08:27
During the Cuban resettlement mission I was called on to be the head sniper for 1-505 Airborne Infantry Battalion. The Cubans were rioting and they had killed one or two of their own. We were sent to quiet them down, when we arrived they got quiet! Again, I was told I would be the "Battalion" sniper as I was the only 1-505 soldier that graduated from the 16 week Special Forces Sniper school.......

As we headed to Ft. Indiantown Gap Pa, to watch Cubans I was briefed no less than 4 times.

Once by my LTC Battalion Commander:
"You will shoot to wound not to kill."

Once by the 82nd JAG (O-6 if I remember):
"You will shoot to wound not to kill."

Once by a one star general upon arriving at Ft. Indiantown Gap Pa:
"You will shoot to wound not to kill."

And finally by a 2 star general:
"You will shoot to wound not to kill."

It's not just the "civilians" that think this way........ had I been a bit more experienced I would have told the general I'd never taken a class in "shooting to wound". I did tell the other snipers if it hit the fan I would do the shooting and they would be no wounding.......

TS - That is one of my red-hot buttons. I literally go nuts when I hear senior folks - or lawyers - talking this kind of shit. I also ask them in what world do we teach people to "shoot to wound"? I've been to a LOT of shooting schools in and out of the military and I have never been to a range wherein we practice to "shoot to wound". Unfortunately, we STILL have a bunch of senior JA's and GO's who have never experienced a gunfight and they simply don't know what they don't know. They are ignorant on weapons; they are ignorant on terminal ballistics; they are ignorant on the tache-psyche effect and the dynamics of a gunfight.

In a law enforcment engagement, the hit rate is only about 12-15%. That's a LOT of bullets flying around. And law enforcement engagement distances are greatly compressed, 3-10 feet. The whole "shoot to wound" crowd is criminally negligent and really pisses me off.

Dusty
02-14-2013, 09:09
As an old Baptist.....

That was just a brief preview.

Amen.

PSM
02-14-2013, 10:02
When it is plainly heard that at least one officer and probably 2 or more talk about burning the house down ("Burn it." and "Burn that Mother Fuc*er down") do the police need to make it a point that they did not mean to start a fire?

LINK (http://news.yahoo.com/sheriff-cabin-not-purposely-burned-firefight-003121793.html)

That was after the fire started. I was listening on the scanner. They sent in the canisters and then reported gas coming out of the window. The fire smoke followed a few minutes later. Then they reported hearing a single gunshot from inside the cabin. I didn't hear anyone on the radio say anything about burning it down, but the TAC freqs were not on the online scanner I was listening to. It could have been recorded by the CBS crew that was in the area, though. AND, since there were non-LEO in the area, how can you be sure it was a cop that said it and not, say, a news photographer sensing a dramatic story?

Pat

Streck-Fu
02-14-2013, 10:23
I heard it over whichever channel was being broadcast. It may have been after the deployment of the gas...but it was stated over the police radio.

PSM
02-14-2013, 10:40
I heard it over whichever channel was being broadcast. It may have been after the deployment of the gas...but it was stated over the police radio.

OK, thanks. I didn't hear them on mine, or didn't pick up on it. ;)

I also saw this report that his mother was in a small Mexican restaurant eating chips and salsa while watching the stand-off on their TV:

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/12/dorners-mom-spotted-drinking-wine-eating-chips-while-watching-standoff/

Pat

cbtengr
02-14-2013, 11:06
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2278338/Christopher-Dorner-No-1-2million-reward-leading-cops-fugitive-ex-cop.html

"Because Dorner was killed, a technicality in the wording of the reward could mean that no one would be eligible"

They can put those funds towards restitution for the folks whose trucks were shot up and who were wounded earlier during this debacle.

UWOA (RIP)
02-14-2013, 12:15
When it is plainly heard that at least one officer and probably 2 or more talk about burning the house down ("Burn it." and "Burn that Mother Fuc*er down") do the police need to make it a point that they did not mean to start a fire?

LINK (http://news.yahoo.com/sheriff-cabin-not-purposely-burned-firefight-003121793.html)

I'm speculating here, but it's more than probable (I hope) that there were LEOs able to observe the scene who were not part of the perimeter/containment or entry/counter-sniper.

BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front) Not all LEOs are created equal ... there are A, B, and C (hopefully not any F) grade officers on every department, some limited by their experience and maturity. Statements like the above are emotional and non-professional and may be contributed to by a lack of understanding (perspective) on what is truly going on ....

It reminds me of an incident that occurred back in '83 when I was one of the instructors teaching rappelling as a confidence builder to a recruit class.

We were using a 100 foot fire tower for the training and had lines stretched down from the roof. I was the rappel dummy/demonstrator for a practical example of how the belay man can arrest the descent of a rappeller who has lost his 'brake'.

I gave a loud "On rappel!", heard a resounding "On belay!" and made a conventional rappel from the roof to the fourth floor (about 80 feet above the sidewalk -- yeah, sidewalk, you use what's available -- as the stories were 20 feet each).

As I bounded out from the building, I gave a loud "Falling!", released my 'brake' and assumed a spread-eagle position. There was a slight 'snap' as the bound ended and I began to fall rapidly.

I kept waiting for the bounce associated with the belay man applying pressure, but didn't feel it. The belay man had lost the line and I couldn't see that because of the conventional rappel position. All this time I'm in the spread-eagled position counting windows on the way down. When I reached the last window and my descent hadn't even begun to slow, I thought to myself -- 'This is going to hurt!' and assumed a PLF position.

I struck the blacktop almost perfectly ... heels, calves, thighs, buttocks, back muscles ... the force of the landing snapping my head back finally to hit the blacktop giving me a large contusion (and a concussion).

I lay there for a second, then got up. A few feet away one of the students said, "You're not gonna make me do that, are you?"

Luckily, I had survived the fall by executing a PLF courtesy of my Airborne training. But the student didn't know that; what they had been told is that I would be demonstrating a technique that they would be asked to do. From their perspective -- when I got up -- the demonstration was the 'natural course of events.'

Things are not always what they seem, as dictated by experience and perspective. I can only hope that was the case on Big Bear mountain.

BTW, notwithstanding the concussion, I went back up to the roof and executed the demonstration a second time with a different belay man.

DJ Urbanovsky
02-14-2013, 12:41
Well, there's this:

Listen for these parts:

0:17 - "Burn that mother fucker out..."
0:22 - "Burn that fucking house down"
0:40 - "Get going right now - fucking burn this mother fucking..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cNk-bV40XMc

Listen for these parts:

1:00 - "We're gonna go forward with the plan, with the... with the burner. The one that, uh... like we talked about."
1:27 - "Seven burners deployed, and we have a fire."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SCdqybEfy9w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SCdqybEfy9w)

If he did what he did, then he deserves what he got, but here are some problems:

1) Police shot up two vehicles without confirming that the suspect was inside of them. What's that rule? Oh yeah - always be aware of your target and what is beyond.

2) Police burned down an innocent person's house. Place yourself in that situation if you would - there's a fugitive in your house, and the police burn it down. How would you like that? Do you think that's acceptable?

3) This guy wasn't the hard charging tactical genius that his manifesto and the media and police made him out to be. Just because he has military and police training doesn't make him super ninja. I've known plenty of military people and police who didn't know jack shit about combat. The way they made this guy sound, he was eight feet tall with lightning bolts dancing around his shoulders.

4) Have they IDed his body yet?

DIYPatriot
02-14-2013, 13:06
If he did what he did, then he deserves what he got, but here are some problems:

1) Police shot up two vehicles without confirming that the suspect was inside of them. What's that rule? Oh yeah - always be aware of your target and what is beyond.

...

4) Have they IDed his body yet?

I was thinking along those lines. When I heard it was burning, I wondered if they had positive ID this time and whether or not anyone else might have been trapped/tied up inside. How did they know that the rooms were cleared and that he was alone?

airbornediver
02-14-2013, 15:38
Well, there's this:

Listen for these parts:

0:17 - "Burn that mother fucker out..."
0:22 - "Burn that fucking house down"
0:40 - "Get going right now - fucking burn this mother fucking..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cNk-bV40XMc

Listen for these parts:

1:00 - "We're gonna go forward with the plan, with the... with the burner. The one that, uh... like we talked about."
1:27 - "Seven burners deployed, and we have a fire."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SCdqybEfy9w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SCdqybEfy9w)

If he did what he did, then he deserves what he got, but here are some problems:

1) Police shot up two vehicles without confirming that the suspect was inside of them. What's that rule? Oh yeah - always be aware of your target and what is beyond.

2) Police burned down an innocent person's house. Place yourself in that situation if you would - there's a fugitive in your house, and the police burn it down. How would you like that? Do you think that's acceptable?

3) This guy wasn't the hard charging tactical genius that his manifesto and the media and police made him out to be. Just because he has military and police training doesn't make him super ninja. I've known plenty of military people and police who didn't know jack shit about combat. The way they made this guy sound, he was eight feet tall with lightning bolts dancing around his shoulders.

4) Have they IDed his body yet?

Well said.

monsterhunter
02-14-2013, 16:55
As far as the police who fired on the two uninvolved vehicles. The first group (LAPD) are in deep crap and currently relieved of duty pending an investigation. They screwed up in a huge way. The second shooting, Torrance PD (an otherwise very good department), is probably under the same set of circumstances. Both of these shootings appear to be unacceptable and I would hate to be any one of those officers.

As far as the house burning, I believe TR got it absolutely right. All the gas we have that is deployed with a launcher is burners (except a smaller 12 gage round used on cars only). The burners are much more productive over any blast dispersion products. They often times start fires. The unit deploying was RSO SWAT.

As far as all the rounds that were fired: So the hell what. When a deputy is down and needs to be extracted, I'd fire a rocket into the cabin if I could. The comments about the house burning: I can't believe that was the plan to burn the place down, but it is usually a result or the burners being deployed. He could have come on out if he wanted and had his due process.

I found myself making my own burn comments in the living room. I imagine many other there were doing the same. One should be more careful about voicing their thoughts like it was done. It only creates problems for the department and lots of second guessing.

As far as letting the cabin burn down: after another deputy was killed and another wounded, I wouldn't have fire or deputies advance on the building at all until it was rubble. Again, that ass hat had a chance to leave. So be it, better for the tax payers

VVVV
02-14-2013, 17:25
As far as the police who fired on the two uninvolved vehicles. The first group (LAPD) are in deep crap and currently relieved of duty pending an investigation. They screwed up in a huge way. The second shooting, Torrance PD (an otherwise very good department), is probably under the same set of circumstances. Both of these shootings appear to be unacceptable and I would hate to be any one of those officers.

As far as the house burning, I believe TR got it absolutely right. All the gas we have that is deployed with a launcher is burners (except a smaller 12 gage round used on cars only). The burners are much more productive over any blast dispersion products. They often times start fires. The unit deploying was RSO SWAT.

As far as all the rounds that were fired: So the hell what. When a deputy is down and needs to be extracted, I'd fire a rocket into the cabin if I could. The comments about the house burning: I can't believe that was the plan to burn the place down, but it is usually a result or the burners being deployed. He could have come on out if he wanted and had his due process.

I found myself making my own burn comments in the living room. I imagine many other there were doing the same. One should be more careful about voicing their thoughts like it was done. It only creates problems for the department and lots of second guessing.

As far as letting the cabin burn down: after another deputy was killed and another wounded, I wouldn't have fire or deputies advance on the building at all until it was rubble. Again, that ass hat had a chance to leave. So be it, better for the tax payers


Sure he did! Just like this cop killer in Florida. "A Florida gunman, who shot and killed an officer and his police dog, was shot at 110 times and hit 68 times when SWAT team members found him the following day hiding in the woods under a tree trunk and he refused to show his hands. Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said the fugitive would have been shot more, but the SWAT team ran out of bullets. "

What do you think would have happened if the women delivering open their doors and attempted to exit their ("Dorner's Nissan") pickup?

monsterhunter
02-14-2013, 18:50
Sure he did! Just like this cop killer in Florida. "A Florida gunman, who shot and killed an officer and his police dog, was shot at 110 times and hit 68 times when SWAT team members found him the following day hiding in the woods under a tree trunk and he refused to show his hands. Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said the fugitive would have been shot more, but the SWAT team ran out of bullets. "

What do you think would have happened if the women delivering open their doors and attempted to exit their ("Dorner's Nissan") pickup?

Hell if I know. They didn't do anything to warrant being shot at in the first place. I've seen cop killers taken into custody with no cameras around. It all comes down to their training and integrity. One agencies conduct does not reflect on another's.

Old Dog New Trick
02-14-2013, 19:58
The ME confirmed the body was that of Dorner, through dental records, but has not issued a cause of death.

I guess that means he didn't chip any teeth with the barrel.

25U
02-15-2013, 19:44
http://news.msn.com/us/sheriff-ex-cop-dorner-died-from-gunshot-to-head

Cause of death has been declared self-inflicted gunshot to the head. It also notes that he may have been hiding out right beside the CP of the manhunt.

Lan
02-16-2013, 22:07
Reporter: "I heard the Deputy who died was shot in the face?"

San Bernadino County Sheriff: "I am not going to comment on where he was shot"

Why is where he was shot important? Seriously?! People are so stupid!

:mad:

If anyone is interested, I am fairly certain the person who asked this question is Carter Evans of CBS. I recorded the mystery reporters question and compared it to Carter Evans and I'm fairly certain it's the same person.

monsterhunter
02-17-2013, 19:48
Chris Dorner, No Excuses
February 14, 2013

by Juli Adcock

Since Chris Dorner posted his manifesto of grievances and murdered four people in his quest to “clear his name”, some in the public, including the media have given him an undeserved folk hero status. The thought process seems to be that since the LAPD has a history of racism, the actions he took to make the department “pay” are justified, including the murders of people with no ability to influence or control anything that happened to Dorner. It is a very disturbing look into the mindset and lack of moral cohesion among this group of people.

For the sake of argument, let us allow the assumption stand that nothing has changed at the LAPD since the Rodney King incident. Dorner applied and was hired at that agency to begin his training in 2006, filing a complaint against two trainees for “ethnic remarks”, with one being cleared of wrongdoing. In other words, one of them was found to have made a slur and dealt with, which means his complaint was not ignored. Further, this “racist” organization hired him.

After serving 4 months, he was called into active duty from his Navy reservist status to serve over in Iraq, then returned to the LAPD into probationary field training status. The question I have is if he felt that the culture of the LAPD was racist, why did he return? This is the first of many options Chris Dorner could have taken to change the trajectory of what happened. The LAPD is not the only law enforcement agency to work for in that area.

Next, his training officer found him crying in the patrol car, where he requested to be taken back to the station. He admitted to an investigator that he had been having issues after his deployment and asked for restoration training especially for officers returning from deployments, which he completed. This is the second option presented to Dorner to change the trajectory of events. When he perceived things going wrong at the department, there were ostensibly other vets there to utilize as a support system, something that the restoration training most likely recommended.

Then there was the arrest of the homeless, mentally ill man, in which Dorner accused his training officer of brutally kicking on July 28, 2007. Rather than immediately requesting a supervisor, any sort of documentation of the incident or obtaining witnesses identities contemporaneously to the event, he waited until August 10, 2007 to report it. Interestingly enough, according to court documents in his case, the complaint was filed after his training officer expressed concerns over his performance on patrol duties in a review on August 4, 2007. Coincidental? Perhaps.

This incident and how it was handled is significant because of his education and experience in the military, as well as his educational experiences in college. By all accounts, he was intelligent, articulate and in most aspects well disciplined. He had friends in civilian and military, as well as law enforcement circles, in other words, a support group. Even if all of his allegations were true, there were avenues to pursue outside of the department culture, that could have revealed the accusations of racism and brutality that did not lead to murdering innocent people. Surely he could have received support from the ACLU, the NAACP and a whole host of other advocacy groups. If not, why?

Chris Dorner had a long list of people he wanted to wreak vengeance upon, did any of those people end up on the list of those he murdered? The question that needs to be asked of those who consider Dorner a “folk hero” is what did Monica Quan, a young, up and coming basketball coach and Keith Lawrence, an African American, Quan’s fiancé, another basketball aficionado and law enforcement hopeful have to do with how Chris Dorner was treated. They both had bright, hopeful futures ahead that Dorner unjustly stole from them. The quote from Dorner’s manifesto stating that because he “never had an opportunity to have a family of my own, I’m terminating yours,” speaks volumes about him displaying the same sort of barbaric mentality he’s supposedly fighting against.

Let’s look at Dorner’s third victim, Michael Crain. He was a Riverside police officer with a trainee in the squad car with him when Dorner pulled up alongside their vehicle in Riverside, shooting into their vehicle. Neither Officer Crain nor his trainee who was seriously wounded had any control over what happened to Dorner, nor had they had any previous contact with him. Officer Crain was a Marine who’d served two tours in Kuwait, had a family he loved, including a daughter he attended dance recitals with and a son, whose baseball team he coached. To those who think Dorner’s actions were justified, where is the outrage over the injustice for these people who did nothing wrong and had never harmed Dorner?

In his manifesto, Dorner gives high minded quotes and noble sentiments that have apparently distracted far too many from the barbaric, brutal and unjust actions that Dorner took. When looking over his educational opportunities, his employment opportunities in the military and the LAPD and the support he did not avail himself of, in spite of the high minded values he espoused, in the end, he was a quitter and a coward. Rather than persevering through obstacles so many have faced and overcome in life, he embraced the same sort of hatred he said he was fighting against. Rather than being a hero, he is in fact an example of failure. Rather than forging a solution, he was part of the problem and so are those who consider his actions justified.

In the ashes of his life, rather than leaving a legacy like Martin Luther King, Jr. worked towards, he is merely another inmate in a prison of his own making spreading hatred and misery, failing to examine his own contribution to the hatred in the world around him. He, like so many others blinded by hatred and a victim mentality, forget there are people all around him from all walks of life, who have faced their own demons, working to make things better in the world.

The bitter irony is that in his blind hatred, he murdered four of those people. His actions reveal that he is no different than the evil people who abused their badges at LAPD, justified murdering millions of Jews, lynched African Americans and whites that were on the front lines alongside them or those who shot the 15 year old Pakistani girl for wanting an education for girls. Instead of correcting injustice and evil, he became a perpetrator of injustice and evil. Instead of helping the cause of those working to improve the LAPD, he has placed yet another obstacle to be overcome and there are no excuses in the cold light of the aftermath.

Richard
02-17-2013, 20:35
If anyone is interested, I am fairly certain the person who asked this question is Carter Evans of CBS. I recorded the mystery reporters question and compared it to Carter Evans and I'm fairly certain it's the same person.

And...? :confused:

Reporters ask the typical who, what, when , where, how, and why questions - it goes with the job. 'Where' someone may have been shot, geographically and physically, is not an unusual question to ask.

Organizational spokesmen answer such questions and routinely tell reporters when they think something should be off limits or offer no comments to question(s) they think should be off limits.

Both people in your post played their roles wholly in accordance with the accepted rules of the game, and I don't understand why you are attempting to make something of nothing out of the ordinary over it.

Richard :munchin

Lan
02-17-2013, 21:02
And...? :confused:

Reporters ask the typical who, what, when , where, how, and why questions - it goes with the job. 'Where' someone may have been shot, geographically and physically, is not an unusual question to ask.

Organizational spokesmen answer such questions and routinely tell reporters when they think something should be off limits or offer no comments to question(s) they think should be off limits.

Both people in your post played their roles wholly in accordance with the accepted rules of the game, and I don't understand why you are attempting to make something of nothing out of the ordinary over it.

Richard :munchin

I respectfully disagree sir. It is my opinion the question was tasteless.

Was it anyone's business where the officer was shot? No.

Could the location of this fatal shot be of any importance to the public? No.

Did the reporter think the answer to this question would have improved ratings? Possibly.

Do you think the question incited anger among the deceased's family and friends? I think it probably did.

Edit: I brought it up because I believe the media is one of the greatest threats to our liberties. A lot of you have forgotten more than I know, so I am not trying to educate anyone here, but if I had not said something I feel like the media would have won.

Richard
02-17-2013, 21:44
I respectfully disagree sir. It is my opinion the question was tasteless.

Was it anyone's business where the officer was shot? No.

Could the location of this fatal shot be of any importance to the public? No.

Did the reporter think the answer to this question would have improved ratings? Possibly.

Do you think the question incited anger among the deceased's family and friends? I think it probably did.

As did the Sheriff, obviously, from his response to the question.

However one views the question, it remains IMO a valid 'where' question from an investigative reporter seeking 'facts' related to a crime - whether he then chooses to either report the fact or to omit it as unnecessary, tasteless, without merit, or for whatever reason he and his editor(s) may decide.

Again, it is nothing new or unusual, and, again, I fail to understand the naiveté that seemingly underlies the tenacity of your expressed umbrage in continuing to bring it up and push it beyond your originally expressed opinion.

You think it's 'tasteless' - we get it.

Richard :munchin

25U
02-22-2013, 18:09
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/22/17058326-8-lapd-officers-involved-in-shooting-after-dorner-case-of-mistaken-identity?lite

102 bullet holes from 8 officers, so about 13 rounds from each officer. So they all just dumped a full magizine into the truck and hit a bunch of houses around the truck.

monsterhunter
02-22-2013, 18:12
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/22/17058326-8-lapd-officers-involved-in-shooting-after-dorner-case-of-mistaken-identity?lite

102 bullet holes from 8 officers, so about 13 rounds from each officer. So they all just dumped a full magizine into the truck and hit a bunch of houses around the truck.

That's what happens if you panic and/or have your head up your ass. IMHO of course.

BKKMAN
02-22-2013, 19:04
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/22/17058326-8-lapd-officers-involved-in-shooting-after-dorner-case-of-mistaken-identity?lite

102 bullet holes from 8 officers, so about 13 rounds from each officer. So they all just dumped a full magizine into the truck and hit a bunch of houses around the truck.

But some residents, despite being so close to the gunfire, said they understand the officers’ actions.

"I think they have to be supported through this," said Joanne Arnn. "Yes, it's unfortunate, thank goodness no one here was fatally injured, but it's not a very safe world."

Especially when LE "goes porcupine or death star" and turns your suburban neighborhood into a 360 shooting gallery...

There can be no justification for firing any rounds, let alone that many rounds at a pickup with 2 Asian newspaper delivery women...

But Democrats would take guns and ARs out of law-abiding citizens hands, but leave them in the hands of LE "professionals"...:rolleyes:

25U
02-22-2013, 19:16
What I don't understand is how the engine block took shots from the front when all the officers were behind.

Did they take shots when fellow officers where exactly opposite of them or did someone run to the front after the shooting started and pop off a few in the grill, not seeing the two women freaking out in the front seat?

monsterhunter
02-22-2013, 19:27
What I don't understand is how the engine block took shots from the front when all the officers were behind.

Did they take shots when fellow officers where exactly opposite of them or did someone run to the front after the shooting started and pop off a few in the grill, not seeing the two women freaking out in the front seat?

I don't know very many of the details behind this shooting. I've seen that very thing happen before.

This appears to be a very poor shooting by LAPD. LE's do not get to shoot at "perceived threats" (at least in this sense of it). There could not have been any target identification (with the two older ladies). They only appeared to be driving a similar vehicle, near a protected home, and during early morning hours. They may have been driving a little wierd, as many folks do when delivering papers. Hardly a reason to start shooting (from the available information). I doubt these ladies "gunned" the engine while driving toward officers.

I don't usually comment before the investigation, but I just don't know what they hell they could possibly have been thinking.

monsterhunter
02-22-2013, 19:36
Yes. I have seen this happen severl times with LE where they surround a vehicle in a circle and shoot. Its called a Polish Ambush and it happens more often than you think.

AKA the Polish firing squad. I just didn't want to say the first time around by Brush Okie opened the can, so...

The Reaper
02-22-2013, 21:19
Same as with poorly trained troops.

One idiot pops the first round, and then everyone else has to catch up and fire their rounds till slide lock as well.

It could have been any of our families in that truck.

The LAPD was very lucky not to have killed anyone. Those involved need to be investigated and if found negligent, punished (not the slap on the wrist the union will ask for).

TR