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33army
01-28-2013, 19:14
Gentlemen and knife gurus,

I have a conundrum on my hands. I am currently on a search for an edged tool for my wife who recently deployed with 525 BfSB to a wonderful little FOB in SE Afghanistan. This particular FOB has a group of Romanians who have a reputation for being somewhat forceful towards the female population. While my wife is a damn good shot with her M-4, I would like to acquire a personal protection device, rapidly I might add, that she can carry at all times that does not require pointing and shooting. Any recommendations would be awesome. Price max is $150.

33

Dusty
01-28-2013, 19:33
Romanians? Garlic and a wooden stake.

33army
01-28-2013, 19:38
Wrong Romanians. Plus I already told her that and she was not amused. Apparently they already smell like garlic.

Dusty
01-28-2013, 19:44
Wrong Romanians. Plus I already told her that and she was not amused. Apparently they already smell like garlic.

lol Fixed or folder? Time frame?

33army
01-28-2013, 20:00
She and I would both prefer fixed. I'm hoping to send it out NLT 15 Feb. Currently looking at the Spartan Enyo, Mr Urbanovsky's Mini Dashi, Spyderco Native.

Dusty
01-28-2013, 20:02
She and I would both prefer fixed. I'm hoping to send it out NLT 15 Feb. Currently looking at the Spartan Enyo, Mr Urbanovsky's Mini Dashi, Spyderco Native.

I can vouch for the Native. 'Course it's a folder, but it's handy.

The Reaper
01-28-2013, 20:36
I can vouch for the Native. 'Course it's a folder, but it's handy.

Seconded.

And a Mike Janich video to go with it.

TR

chisumr
01-28-2013, 21:59
I agree with the Spyderco Native.

swatsurgeon
01-29-2013, 12:08
the Native took care of 2 attacking pitbulls for me...I believe it would work.

ss

Dusty
01-29-2013, 12:12
That's right!

I'd rather go up against 5 Romanians than one pit bull. ;)

DIYPatriot
01-29-2013, 12:33
the Native took care of 2 attacking pitbulls for me...I believe it would work.

ss


I remember that thread. The only folder I ever carried was a Kershaw Ken Onion Blur and it has an assisted opening feature that engages the blade quickly. When you had to deploy and defend, did you have any hang-up's or issues deploying the blade?

I'm guessing it opens rather quickly because you made it out of that situation and came out on top. I'm just wondering about the time and motor skills needed to get from Point A to Point C if his wife was in a violent struggle with someone that could overpower her.

Dusty
01-29-2013, 12:39
I remember that thread. The only folder I ever carried was a Kershaw Ken Onion Blur and it has an assisted opening feature that engages the blade quickly. When you had to deploy and defend, did you have any hang-up's or issues deploying the blade?

I'm guessing it opens rather quickly because you made it out of that situation and came out on top. I'm just wondering about the time and motor skills needed to get from Point A to Point C if his wife was in a violent struggle with someone that could overpower her.

Practice. 100 times a day, every day.

DIYPatriot
01-29-2013, 13:07
Practice. 100 times a day, every day. Very good point, Dusty. I'm not sure of his wife's background, but mine has trained in Kali and Silat for a number of years. She still prefers a fixed blade for every day carry so that fumbling with opening it is one less thing to think about should the time ever arise to deploy it.

As for me? I like things that go BANG :D

swatsurgeon
01-29-2013, 13:29
Repetitive task transfer (muscle memory): when you develop unconscious competence, you never ask that question. Remember the 4 stages of learning

1. unconscious incompetence: no clue what you don't know: oblivious/unaware
2. conscious incompetence: aware that you don't know something, heightened awareness, very uncomfortable 'feeling'
3. conscious competence: you think through it, understanding the steps needed to accomplish a goal; have to think about each indiviual step, time consuming and must be focused on each step
4. unconscious competence: do it 'without thinking', happens smoothly to progress through the steps/parts of an issue.

Our goal is to "master" the steps in performance of tasks that can become that high a level. i.e., deploying a weapon, walking and chewing gum....it lets you then concentrate on the other more important aspects of the situation you are dealing with so you don't spend time and energy thinking about the parts you can do "without thinking"

simple philosophy, difficult mastery. I no longer 'think' about deploying a weapon...it just happens when the initiator is triggered (no pun intended)

ss

mark46th
01-29-2013, 16:12
I bought my son a Pacific from Chris Reeves. It is the civilian version of the Ist SFG knife. It looks like a smaller version of our knife...

Although, the best knife guy I knew in group carried an X-acto knife in his belt. He could cut you 4 ways- Long, wide, deep and frequent.

swatsurgeon
01-30-2013, 06:17
So 33army, make a choice yet? Both a folder and sheath knife have their positive attributes for your wife's defensive needs, but have you asked her if she has a preference?

Dusty
01-30-2013, 06:43
So 33army, make a choice yet? Both a folder and sheath knife have their positive attributes for your wife's defensive needs, but have you asked her if she has a preference?

Couple of factors I think could be taken into consideration:

You can get away with a clipped folder in many places a sheath knife would be discouraged, prohibited, or have to be concealed.

Speaking from personal experience, I can deploy my Native very nearly as fast as I can deploy any of my belt knives.

IMHO, proficiency in technique is the qualifier in using either.

LibraryLady
01-31-2013, 00:11
Personally I'd go for the Enyo for EDC for personal protection. I like the way it fits in my hand. (when I can get it away from the Troll...) Wish there'd been cool knives like the Enyo when I was in... ;)

I EDC a folder right now, but that's because it's a little more discrete in civilian clothes.

That said, practice, practice, practice on the draw. If she's not comfortable with the knife, it could be more of a hindrance than help.

Also getting to know the names of the higher ranks among the Romanians might be a good idea. Working on her SA can help keep her out of situations too.

Of course, another thing for her to consider is that everything is a weapon. I've done a bit of damage with a fork before.

Tell her my prayers are with her, that's not a fun situation.


LL

Bill Harsey
01-31-2013, 09:36
All other things being equal a fixed blade will deploy with certainty faster than a folder.
Yes there are edged weapon trained folks that can whip a folding knife out at 95% the speed of light but if that folder ever gets a bit of debris in the mechanism it may not work right.

Don't get me wrong, I like folders but in a high stress emergency average humans may lose fine motor control over muscles and movement so the solution is to use a tool and technique that doesn't need fine motor control. This is why I would think about the fixed blade for carry.

Noted that this group is not "average".

Doc Vail, well stated on "repetitive task transfer".

Dusty
01-31-2013, 10:24
I'm with Mr. Harsey on going with a fixed. Our mind can dance between levels 3 & 4 when faced with that high stress situation, which is all the time a shifty group of Romanians will need...

It's sound reasoning when you can pack one. If you can't, you better be able to get your folder ready.

Barbarian
01-31-2013, 10:39
Just my .02, but I would invest in both as you become able to afford them. Then practice, practice, practice.

33army
01-31-2013, 10:59
Gentlemen, I will be purchasing an Enyo. My wife prefers fixed for that specific use due to speed and her size. She does have 2 folders but wants a nice shiny spartan for her tool bag. All if your advice has been invaluable. Feel free to keep the debate going on folder vs. fixed. It has been rather insightful thus far.

And she thanks you all for the support
33

Dusty
01-31-2013, 11:02
Gentlemen, I will be purchasing an Enyo. My wife prefers fixed for that specific use due to speed and her size. She does have 2 folders but wants a nice shiny spartan for her tool bag. All if your advice has been invaluable. Feel free to keep the debate going on folder vs. fixed. It has been rather insightful thus far.

And she thanks you all for the support
33

That's an outstanding choice!

Will she be able to wear it during PT?

swatsurgeon
01-31-2013, 11:05
All other things being equal a fixed blade will deploy with certainty faster than a folder.
Yes there are edged weapon trained folks that can whip a folding knife out at 95% the speed of light but if that folder ever gets a bit of debris in the mechanism it may not work right.

Don't get me wrong, I like folders but in a high stress emergency average humans may lose fine motor control over muscles and movement so the solution is to use a tool and technique that doesn't need fine motor control. This is why I would think about the fixed blade for carry.

Noted that this group is not "average".

Doc Vail, well stated on "repetitive task transfer".

Thank you Sir, an honor to be noted by you.

ss

Uman
01-31-2013, 11:08
Look at these the Spyderco P'Kal. It comes with the Wave device so you can open it as it comes out or pull it out not using the wave device so it comes out folded. I have it and use it for EDC. It is great for the reverse grip (Ice Pick) use. Google it and watch South Narc YouTube videos on its deployment and the Knife Jab. Google Floro Fighting and watch videos on the knife jab. Very simple, very fast and very deadly. It combines simple movements, gross motor skills and a very effective targeting. You can get the P'Kal on Amazon for around $125.

CRKT James Williams line are all great knives for defense, but do not buy from CRKT shop around. His folder line set up for appendix carry are great for EDC. I have the folding Hissatsu again a great knife for reverse grip and rapid deployment. I have not seen or handled his 5 inch fix blade but if it is like any other of his blades it should be very good. I found the folding Hissatsu on Amazon for $65.

The Knife Jab by Floro Fighting is a great tool for the arsenal.

Dusty
01-31-2013, 11:21
Click link for hilarious video.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trY oM

WASHINGTON — Is your workplace getting shot up by a crazed gunman?

No problem — just grab a pair of scissors and fight back!

That’s some of the helpful advice in a new instructional video from the Department of Homeland Security that was posted on the agency’s Web site just a month after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

“If you are caught out in the open and cannot conceal yourself or take cover, you might consider trying to overpower the shooter with whatever means are available,” says the narrator in the video, which shows an office worker pulling scissors out of a desk drawer.

The video, titled “Options for Consideration,” also advises that people who get caught in an “active shooter” situation should run away, hide under a desk or take cover out of the line of fire.

The nearly four-minute-long video opens with chilling scenes from the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre, the 2009 mass shooting at Fort Hood in Texas, and the 2011 attempted assassination of Gabrielle Giffords.

But the video quickly shifts to hokey footage of office workers scampering under desks, crouching in corners and racing into closets to hide from a rampaging gunman on the loose.

“To protect your hiding place, lock the door if you can. Block the door with heavy furniture,” recommends the male narrator, speaking in measured, authoritative tones.

Other survival strategies promoted in the video include hiding “behind large items such as cabinets or desks. Remain quiet. Silence your cellphone or pager. Even the vibration setting can give away a hiding position.”

Richard Feldman, president of the Independent Firearm Owners Association, said he has a better option for consideration than a pair of scissors when confronting an armed mass murderer — a legal firearm.Snip

33army
01-31-2013, 11:40
I was told by her that she would wear it at all times

That's an outstanding choice!

Will she be able to wear it during PT?

Dusty
01-31-2013, 11:50
I was told by her that she would wear it at all times

Good deal.

DIYPatriot
01-31-2013, 13:05
I was told by her that she would wear it at all times

33-

My experiences have taken me through various systems. When it relates to knives, I found Kali to work best for me. My wife is about your wife's size and she excels in Silat, but appreciates both systems. The nice thing about them is that you'll start with weapons and work your way down to open-hand training. The Kali disarms and defenses are very practical and do not require lots of memorization. They feel natural and instinctive (to me).

Along the way, I found the Dog Brothers to have some of the best training for street survival, especially their open hand survival techniques against knives. They work with Frankie McRae, a SF soldier in your neck of the woods. I'm not sure if he could point you in a direction for some solid training or not, but I thought I would mention it. At the very least, check out the Dog Brothers. And I believe TR had some solid advice on the Mike Janich training video, too. That guy is the real deal.

Just my 2 cents from years of having my ass handed to me by guys that were tougher and meaner than I and have BTDT. Luckily, they let me tag along and learn a great deal from them. Good choice on the Enyo, too! My wife loves her Phrike and strongly considered the Enyo. So far, all she's had to cut open are the dozens of care packages I send her :D

33army
01-31-2013, 17:57
Now the real question is....Do I really need to order the knife online and pay shipping, OR can I just drive 30 minutes to Aberdeen and avoid spending excess money?;)

DIYPatriot
01-31-2013, 23:40
Now the real question is....Do I really need to order the knife online and pay shipping, OR can I just drive 30 minutes to Aberdeen and avoid spending excess money?;)

Heck, I'd find some good music, crank it up and make the drive so I could shake the hand of the man that made my blade!

33army
02-01-2013, 07:52
Correct me if I'm wrong, the owner is a member of this encyclopedic forum?

frostfire
02-01-2013, 09:07
when it comes to failure with deploying folder, I've learned that it can just as easily be used as an effective blunt instrument . The slice/stab will follow the poke. Train for contingency.

Had a ken onion folder for 9 years.....then one day, poof!...Now carrying CRKT 13sf:boohoo

swatsurgeon
02-01-2013, 18:50
Correct me if I'm wrong, the owner is a member of this encyclopedic forum?

Both owners are members here......

33army
02-01-2013, 21:55
Contact made. Thanks again.

ajls
02-04-2013, 11:48
33-
Another suggestion for your wife, and one I've used successfully in the past(although I am a civilian and don't know if this is against regs for your wife) is to sew a pocket on the inside of the waistband-horizontally-and slide a weapon of choice in. I had the opening facing my off hand, as an attacker will disarm the strong side first, and was able to use surprise to get free with no real damage done(to me). As I was on a boat at the time, I had a miniature marlin spike only 3 inches, but whatever your wife can put her hands on will do. Even a pen used with force can cause enough damage to give time for escape to safety.

Prayers to you both for her safety.

JoeyB
02-07-2013, 15:16
I got my wife an Enyo (well I got myself an Enyo that she stole!) great knife and conceals very easy for her

33army
02-22-2013, 18:00
To the Gentlemen of Spartan Blades, a big thank you from the hearts of a military family....and possibly the left ventricle of a Romanian. It was an honor to meet you both.

33

DIYPatriot
02-23-2013, 09:52
That's awesome, 33! Hope your wife stays safe over there, too!

TOMAHAWK9521
02-23-2013, 19:58
I'm familiar with that particular FOB and the Romanians in question. Those goons are a bunch of juiced-up Neanderthals. I wouldn't turn my back on any of them.

Also, there was a bizarre story going around KAF last year that involved another group of those thugs. I still don't know if what happened, really happened. But if someone asks if you are going to or want a "Romanian shower", either run or draw your weapons and prepare to defend yourself.

mcarey
02-26-2013, 08:33
To the Gentlemen of Spartan Blades, a big thank you from the hearts of a military family....and possibly the left ventricle of a Romanian. It was an honor to meet you both.

33

You are very welcome! I am sure your better half will like it. All the best to her and you in your careers. Mark

Kasik
04-26-2014, 10:41
Awesome knife and always with you.