View Full Version : DHS to Buy 7,000 5.56x45mm NATO “Personal Defense Weapons” (PDW) aka Assault Weapons
OldNCranky
01-26-2013, 21:57
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/26/if-assault-weapons-are-bad-why-does-the-dhs-want-to-buy-7000-of-them-for-personal-defense/
http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/department-homeland-security-latest-highlight-flawed-logic-cuomo-gun-grab
"The Department of Homeland Security is seeking to acquire 7,000 5.56x45mm NATO “personal defense weapons” (PDW) — also known as “assault weapons” when owned by civilians. The solicitation, originally posted on June 7, 2012, comes to light as the Obama administration is calling for a ban on semi-automatic rifles and high capacity magazines.
Citing a General Service Administration (GSA) request for proposal (RFP), Steve McGough of RadioViceOnline.com reports that DHS is asking for the 7,000 “select-fire” firearms because they are “suitable for personal defense use in close quarters.” The term select-fire means the weapon can be both semi-automatic and automatic. Civilians are prohibited from obtaining these kinds of weapons.
The RFP describes the firearm as “Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) – 5.56x45mm NATO, select-fire firearm suitable for personal defense use in close quarters and/or when maximum concealment is required.” Additionally, DHS is asking for 30 round magazines that “have a capacity to hold thirty (30) 5.56x45mm NATO rounds.”
Some for us...None for you...:mad:
Team Sergeant
01-26-2013, 22:17
I could understand a few hundred firearms, but 7000? That is an army. That's also millions in equipment and training. I wonder who they are "defending" against? :munchin
The Reaper
01-26-2013, 22:18
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/26/if-assault-weapons-are-bad-why-does-the-dhs-want-to-buy-7000-of-them-for-personal-defense/
http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/department-homeland-security-latest-highlight-flawed-logic-cuomo-gun-grab
"The Department of Homeland Security is seeking to acquire 7,000 5.56x45mm NATO “personal defense weapons” (PDW) — also known as “assault weapons” when owned by civilians. The solicitation, originally posted on June 7, 2012, comes to light as the Obama administration is calling for a ban on semi-automatic rifles and high capacity magazines.
Citing a General Service Administration (GSA) request for proposal (RFP), Steve McGough of RadioViceOnline.com reports that DHS is asking for the 7,000 “select-fire” firearms because they are “suitable for personal defense use in close quarters.” The term select-fire means the weapon can be both semi-automatic and automatic. Civilians are prohibited from obtaining these kinds of weapons.
The RFP describes the firearm as “Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) – 5.56x45mm NATO, select-fire firearm suitable for personal defense use in close quarters and/or when maximum concealment is required.” Additionally, DHS is asking for 30 round magazines that “have a capacity to hold thirty (30) 5.56x45mm NATO rounds.”
Some for us...None for you...:mad:
Very few civilians actually own assault rifles.
Just 'cause your cat has kittens in the oven don't make 'em biscuits.
Untrained full-auto fire worries me a lot less than a guy with a bolt gun or a shotgun who knows what he is doing.
TR
OldNCranky
01-26-2013, 22:27
Very few civilians actually own assault rifles.
Just 'cause your cat has kittens in the oven don't make 'em biscuits.
Untrained full-auto fire worries me a lot less than a guy with a bolt gun or a shotgun who knows what he is doing.
TR
lol concur:D
GratefulCitizen
01-26-2013, 22:27
I would be more interested as to whom these will be allocated.
If they go to CBP, ICE, and USCG, then fine.
Those guns point in the right direction.
If they go to TSA and FEMA or have no specific allocation...
FWIW-
Under TSA law enforcement powers:
49 USC § 114
(p) Law Enforcement Powers.—
(1) In general.— The Under Secretary may designate an employee of the Transportation Security Administration or other Federal agency to serve as a law enforcement officer.
(2) Powers.—
While engaged in official duties of the Administration as required to fulfill the responsibilities under this section, a law enforcement officer designated under paragraph (1) may—
(A) carry a firearm;
(B) make an arrest without a warrant for any offense against the United States committed in the presence of the officer, or for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing the felony; and
(C) seek and execute warrants for arrest or seizure of evidence issued under the authority of the United States upon probable cause that a violation has been committed.
(3) Guidelines on exercise of authority.—
The authority provided by this subsection shall be exercised in accordance with guidelines prescribed by the Under Secretary, in consultation with the Attorney General of the United States, and shall include adherence to the Attorney General’s policy on use of deadly force.
(4) Revocation or suspension of authority.—
The powers authorized by this subsection may be rescinded or suspended should the Attorney General determine that the Under Secretary has not complied with the guidelines prescribed in paragraph (3) and conveys the determination in writing to the Secretary of Transportation and the Under Secretary.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/114
Ret10Echo
01-27-2013, 06:26
I would be more interested as to whom these will be allocated.
If they go to CBP, ICE, and USCG, then fine.
Those guns point in the right direction.
If they go to TSA and FEMA or have no specific allocation...
FWIW-
Under TSA law enforcement powers:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/114
USSS is DHS....as well as FPS.... Smaller organizations but if you "protect" a certain who or what... Well....
If they go to TSA and FEMA or have no specific allocation...
I've never encountered an armed TSA or FEMA (except the few security personnel I met at the western regional opscenter in Denton, TX) employee.
All the airports I've passed through either have local LEO security or, as with large airports like DFW, their own police forces.
7,000 is not so many for DHS when you consider how many separate sub-agencies with law enforcement functions fall under their management umbrella.
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/dhs-orgchart.pdf
Richard :munchin
Shoot me a PM when they buy the jackboots.
Ret10Echo
01-27-2013, 08:22
It appears that the trend of government agencies to develop Indefinite Duration, Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contracts is where the alarms trigger amongst certain groups.
This solicitation is for a base year plus four (4) option years for a total of Five (5) years. These contracts are intended to be "money savers" both from a bulk purchase as well as administrative overhead as one organizations withing the DHS establishes the contract yet all can put appropriated dollars against the overall contract ceiling (max that can be spent).
(Check out FedBizOpps (https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=1be5e1d8f3fda9b850cc3ba58393bcd3&_cview=%201)if you are interested in the details of the solicitation as well as the company's who responded)
DHS has done this in other areas as well: Tactical Communications (https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=3f156bc55d7f74ba0bd71016a8529767&tab=core&_cview=1) and Ammunition (https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=f57aeb05452eb7aa778531ad2b3aaa00&_cview=1)
Both of these "orders" are actually IDIQ "tabs" over a 5-year period of performance.
Seems to me that the contracts would not be competed publicly through established Fed Acquisition Regulation processes if there was some more sinister intent.
YOMV
GratefulCitizen
01-27-2013, 09:25
I've never encountered an armed TSA or FEMA (except the few security personnel I met at the western regional opscenter in Denton, TX) employee.
All the airports I've passed through either have local LEO security or, as with large airports like DFW, their own police forces.
7,000 is not so many for DHS when you consider how many separate sub-agencies with law enforcement functions fall under their management umbrella.
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/dhs-orgchart.pdf
Richard :munchin
CPB, ICE, USCG, TSA, and FEMA have the largest funding.
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/mgmt/dhs-budget-in-brief-fy2013.pdf
(page 23)
Despite all of the associated conspiracy theories, FEMA seems quite harmless.
However, TSA has been exhibiting mission creep and the limits on its authority are vague.
Why do we need VIPR teams and drones at NFL games?
http://twitter.yfrog.com/odjd2ybj
http://twitter.yfrog.com/h41hxevhj
(There's some boots for you, Dusty :D )
Not worried about 7000 rifles vs the hundreds of millions in private hands.
Conditioning the American people to accept a paramilitary force searching their persons and papers without warrant is another matter.
Probably to hand out to politicians once they ban them. If there is enough pork in the new AWB bill. Republicans will sign it. That's how they plan on passing it.
I would be more interested as to whom these will be allocated.
If they go to CBP, ICE, and USCG, then fine.
Those guns point in the right direction.
If they go to TSA and FEMA or have no specific allocation...
FWIW-
Under TSA law enforcement powers:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/114
TSA are not LEOs. They are not armed or ever will. Yes they would like to but are prohibited by law.
Boy would be be screwed if they were. If their status by law was changed more than 90% would be let go as not meeting the minimual hiring standard for Fed LEOs........
I've never encountered an armed TSA or FEMA (except the few security personnel I met at the western regional opscenter in Denton, TX) employee.
All the airports I've passed through either have local LEO security or, as with large airports like DFW, their own police forces.
7,000 is not so many for DHS when you consider how many separate sub-agencies with law enforcement functions fall under their management umbrella.
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/dhs-orgchart.pdf
Richard :munchin
You are spot on. We see a lot of the TSA people want guns and want more authority and they even try to mess with LEOs to some point when they do ot have to. I just feel is it penis envy. I have had two of them on one day lecture me that they can do just as good as us and they could reduce the need for LEOs at the airports if they had arrest authority and guns. I just told them that they could ot pass the first recumbent step "PT Test". They said they did not need a PT test as they were already doing the job and I just said see you do not get it and that is why you are a baggage checker.
Badger52
01-27-2013, 10:21
... and I just said see you do not get it and that is why you are a baggage checker.Ok, I gotta admit. Besides being accurate that shit was funny.
:D
...They said they did not need a PT test as they were already doing the job and I just said see you do not get it and that is why you are a baggage checker.
:p BOOOOOM!
:p BOOOOOM!
Wow .... look at that clown face in that cloud. :p ;) :D
Ok, I gotta admit. Besides being accurate that shit was funny.
:D
Yeah some times the truth hurts.....
I still get the stink eye every time I am at the airport here.
Ret10Echo
01-27-2013, 18:02
Wow .... look at that clown face in that cloud. :p ;) :D
It's manufactured with a new isotope.... "Congressium"
Javadrinker
02-01-2013, 19:43
I could understand a few hundred firearms, but 7000? That is an army. That's also millions in equipment and training. I wonder who they are "defending" against? :munchin
TSA
Combat Diver
02-01-2013, 20:12
Maybe replacing the ones that BATFE loses? :D
CD
Maybe replacing the ones that BATFE loses? :D
CD
They had better up the order. This happens more often than they would like you to know.:p
I've never encountered an armed TSA or FEMA (except the few security personnel I met at the western regional opscenter in Denton, TX) employee.
All the airports I've passed through either have local LEO security or, as with large airports like DFW, their own police forces.
7,000 is not so many for DHS when you consider how many separate sub-agencies with law enforcement functions fall under their management umbrella.
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/dhs-orgchart.pdf
Richard :munchin
Including the U.S. Coast Guard.
Team Sergeant
02-02-2013, 07:13
We are the Department of Homeland Security and we are ordering 7000 M-4's for personal defense with your tax dollars.
Joe Public, please feel free to go to the "Dollar Store" and purchase yourself a pair of scissors.
Seems logical.
We are the Department of Homeland Security and we are ordering 7000 M-4's for personal defense with your tax dollars.
Joe Public, please feel free to go to the "Dollar Store" and purchase yourself a pair of scissors.
Seems logical.
Going in the talking points.
ODA CDR (RET)
02-02-2013, 07:31
I could understand a few hundred firearms, but 7000? That is an army. That's also millions in equipment and training. I wonder who they are "defending" against? :munchin
October 7, 2012
Share
Homeland Security graduates first Corps of Homeland Youth
October 7, 2012. Vicksburg. The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, the Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.
Where else are they going to get their weapons?
October 7, 2012
Share
Homeland Security graduates first Corps of Homeland Youth
October 7, 2012. Vicksburg. The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, the Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.
Where else are they going to get their weapons?
Not fanning the tin foil crowd but as a history major this is exactly what pops into my head when they started this Homeland Security and youth corps. Hitler youth all over........ They started small and with out any threat to help the nation and were manipulated into the tools of some zellet that brought up youth in his deranged outlook.
Does the USCG, USSS, ICE need replacement weapons probaly. But with what I am seeing internally with some of the upper idiots in DHS I am waiting for them to say well we have these finely trained TSA guys and girls at the checkpoints at all airports lets free up the LEOs for other duties like to protect the children and we will arm a select part of TSA since hey are already on the job. It may be coming and it may not but it keeps running around in my head.
The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, the Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.
Hitlerjugend? :rolleyes:
http://www.fema.gov/fema-corps
http://www.fema.gov/fema-corps-faqs
http://www.fema.gov/organization-structure
They've been used in the Sandy recovery - FEMA is an EOC for DHS disaster prep and coordination, and FEMA Corps are "gofers", not "gunners." <YAWN>
Richard :munchin
They've been used in the Sandy recovery - FEMA is an EOC for DHS disaster prep and coordination, and FEMA Corps are "gofers", not "gunners." <YAWN>
Richard :munchin
True, but one more week of training and they are "gunners", six more and they are "trained gunners".
True, but one more week of training and they are "gunners", six more and they are "trained gunners".
True Paslodean Logic - there's a conspiracy brewing behind every tumbleweed and two in every government office - makes perfect sense when one is off their meds and viewing the world through soot-colored glasses. :rolleyes:
I'm buying a Nigerian aluminum mining company...as soon as I receive the $10M from the finance minister I've been in touch with via e-mail - Mr. Jesse Jamesonalongawon.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
You presume too much Richard.
Edit: Can they? Will they? We'll let history be the judge and the allow the prepared/unprepared to chart that course.
You presume too much Richard.
Edit: Can they? Will they? We'll let history be the judge and the allow the prepared/unprepared to chart that course.
Serial Paslodean Logic progression - leave 'em hanging and waiting for next Saturday's matinee episode of "As the Conspiracy Turns." ;)
MOO and YMMV - and so it goes...
Richard :munchin
True Paslodean Logic - there's a conspiracy brewing behind every tumbleweed and two in every government office - makes perfect sense when one is off their meds and viewing the world through soot-colored glasses. :rolleyes:
I'm buying a Nigerian aluminum mining company...as soon as I receive the $10M from the finance minister I've been in touch with via e-mail - Mr. Jesse Jamesonalongawon.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Resorting to personal insults and insinuations....I expected a better argument than that from you.
Resorting to personal insults and insinuations....I expected a better argument than that from you.
Reflectively targeted sarcasm - sometimes useful when countering the seemingly impenetrable thought processes of, for example, the conspiratorially fixated.
A more common term is "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy, but that seems to be less noticable or understood nowadays.
However - YMMV.
Richard :munchin
judcargile
02-11-2013, 23:35
Given that what is now known as the progressive movement (it changes titles often) has been infiltrating the spheres of influence world wide for over 100 years; All you have to say to me is any word that includes government involvement and I become suspicious. I have a dim intimation of how a lot of agencies work their budgets to accommodate purchases and sometimes things are not what they may seem; However, The current administration makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up (not that the other administrations ever gave a second thought to the powers legally given to them) and it would seem we are better served to approach what they do with a very cautious and VERY thorough examination.
For many years I was appalled at the idea of high powered rifles in 10" and 7" barrel lengths. The shortest that I had ever used or had a working knowledge of was 16". The M4's 14.5" seemed to me to be stretching things, if not, just plain ignorant of basic ballistics! Two weeks ago I had the opportunity of going to a local range with a friend of mine whom I consider above average and we sourced problems on a FTF problem he had on a Bushmaster in PDW configuration (7" barrel). I half expected that if this thing even got close to being on paper it would be on account of a "bank shot" from the ground or adjacent wall! I just could not believe the bullet would even begin to stabilize or hope to fly any predictable path.
We were in the neighborhood of 100 yards and had normal silhouette sized targets. We could not get a good prone on the range and there was no bipod (MY pick) or sandbags to sit at the table with; So, I can not say that I had the opportunity to give it all that I had; However, I am now convinced that for a PDW inside of 200 yards or maybe a little more, I would actually would not turn it down.
I was lucky enough to get Kel-Tec's RFB for a good price when they came out and THAT is my recommendation to anyone! My main problem with 5.56 weapons are that they are not 7.62! I hope that we will be able to flood the market with 6mm Creedmoore and get the American public out of the dark ages.........oops, I can not help it y'all, I have had the disease since childhood.:D