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View Full Version : A kinder more gentler grenade?


MAB32
01-20-2013, 16:09
www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fmv.se%2Fsv%2FNyheter-och-press%2FNyheter-fran-FMV%2FHoppande-handgranat%2F



I personally do not think that this is anything new nor anykind of improvement as far as the "Poor Man's Pocket Artillery" is concerned. It also goes against the view (generally accepted definition) and ubiquitis soilder indoctrination for a defensive hand/rifle grenade is concerned. Too many different variables involved in making this work effectively. It use in a battlefield would be, that is in its present form, would be of dubious value IMHO, FWIW.

The Reaper
01-20-2013, 18:39
Looks like something from a mad scientist in an army with no combat experience.

How well did the M68 frag work out?

TR

alelks
01-20-2013, 19:14
I see a flaw in their logic:

When a typical splitter hand grenade capriciously is half of its fragmentation into the ground to no value. The other half goes up in the air, spreading in all directions and means unnecessary danger to third parties. Only a few fragments have a chance to give effect to the objective, provided that the soldier is not located behind a small obstacle, since the effect is not complete.

They have it backwards. If the grenade goes off in the air it is spreading more shrapnel in all directions.

A grenade going off on the ground will not cover as large of an area which makes it less effective for taking out the bad guys but also has less fragmentation spreading out in all directions at a high velocity unlike one that toes off in mid air.

This it is deadlier and poses more of a threat to third parties.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

MAB32
01-20-2013, 20:48
There is and has been a growing trend to use certain type of polymers in the build/main frame of the defensive rifle and hand grenade. Imbedded in this matrix is a choice of different size small steel balls all the way up to cut up wire/rod. We are still using the old theory that when our M67 goes off it will seperate into pieces along the lines in between the dimples machined inside.

Using different shapes of the outside body of the grenade can and often does determine how well it fragments. Neglecting the power of the explosive and its contribution in producing casualties and kills, the shape of the unit does to a certain extent dictate how and where the projectiles will go. The grenade in itself goes through a series of tests to determine fragmentative capability, velocity of said fragments and what the radius is in which there will be at least a 50% causalty of close/nearby enemies. Anything else is not acceptable in allot of different manufacturers in Europe. IMHO and little experience, Europe is doing a better job at this than us. England, within a couple of years ago gave up her State made grenade and went with the Swiss HG84 (see my avatar for what it looks like) and other governments have done so too. Frags that are shaped almost in a complete circle and made of a polymer are still the "New Standard" to go by. Now we have wave shapers in grenades that help to produce a more "circular" frag pattern. I believe Belgium and some other European Countries are also implamenting a wave shapper into their designs.

Rocket science, probably not that involved, however, it is still a science.

MAB32
02-01-2013, 13:45
TR,

Here is what "Jane's" says about the M68: Description
The M68 is essentially the M67 fitted with a different fuze. The bodies and fillings are the same, as are the lethal radii and the throwing ranges.The fuze is the M217 and is activated in exactly the same way as the fuze in the M67 through the release of a safety lever as the grenade is thrown. The M217 fuze, however, is a rarity in that it is an impact fuze with a time delay as a back-up. The impact part of the fuze acts by an electrical detonator and by a tiny thermal power supply that is started by a powder train set off by the percussion cap. This thermal power supply requires one or two seconds to generate sufficient electricity, but after that the detonator will be fired if the grenade strikes a hard surface or is sharply jolted. Should the impact action fail for some reason, the powder train continues to burn and sets off the detonator by pyrotechnic action within seven seconds.This complicated fuze is contained within a very small space in the body and is apparently highly reliable. The only effect of the size of the fuze is that temperature alters the delay times, which are quoted as lying between three seconds at +52C and seven seconds at -40C, with a rough mean of 4.5 seconds at normal ambient of +20C.There has been no known US procurement since at least the mid-1990s.


I have no clue to why it wasn't hung onto. Some countries still use an "Impact Fuse" intregrated into their basic fuse. Czechoslavakia still uses one that has a seperate switch built into it. Thereby, the user can switch from impact to normal or the other way around. Personally, I believe the M68 was left out because of the lack of proper training and the time spent on the range. I figure the Government in its immortal wisdom thought that the average soldier wasn't bright enough on how to use it. The option of having the same fuse containing both options would in my opinion be better suited for you guys in SpecOps or even WELL trained soldiers.

Also, I still think that there might be a pallet or more of the M68's somewhere within the military. I know for a fact that when I went to school to become a "Booby-Trap & Trip Wire" and "Chemical Munitions" Instructor in both that the Columbus main facility for procurement still had M6's in their inventory. These were suppose to of been burned during the 1970's as they contain not only CN but DM (Arsenic) too. CN & DM (or Adamsite) work in conjunction to stop a riot or so forth. The CN works first within about a minute and all the while the DM is building up in your system. Just before the half-life of CN starts to be reached, the DM kicks in. Now, not only are you suffering the effects of tear gas but now you have an extreme headache (none of which you ever experienced), lungs are begining to fill with mucus, your chest is on fire, you have a horrible taste in your mouth, you are also, vomiting, sweating, very strong pain in the stomach and digestive track, and if that isn't enough and you got a good lung full of the stuff you can go into a coma and/or death. I have smelled the stuff before during training and it was just a whiff from an open container, no smoke. We all got sick from it and the symptoms of tear gas and Arsenic only lasted for around a minute at best.

18ZULU
02-10-2013, 15:57
I can't really think of any circumstances where I would want to use a fragmentation grenade where there would be innocents civilians around.

SF18C
02-10-2013, 16:00
I can't really think of any circumstances where I would want to use a fragmentation grenade where there would be innocents civilians around.

Use one of these...

http://springfieldil.craigslist.org/sgd/3603516122.html

PSM
02-10-2013, 18:50
Use one of these...

http://springfieldil.craigslist.org/sgd/3603516122.html

What was it? Found this:



This posting has been flagged for removal. [?]

(The title on the listings page will be removed in just a few minutes.)

Pat

SF18C
02-10-2013, 19:46
Tactical Assault Rock - $12 (Springfield)

Tactical Assault Rock from Cro-Magnum Arms International(CAI) NOW IN BLACK!

CROMAGNUM ARMS INTERNATIONAL(CAI) ASSAULT ROCK-TACTICAL MODEL

The assault rock is back. These have been flying off the shelf since Cain first took the tactical advantage against Abel.

Get this low speed, high drag assault rock while you still can. This is next on Dianne Feinstein's list.

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Features:
-enhanced grip texture
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-can be thrown as fast as you can swing your arm
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ALL PROFIT WILL BE DONATED TO NRA-ILA

CALL, FAX, EMAIL, WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN

*This is not a weapon.
*This can not be attached to a weapon
*Does not include the "shoulder thing that goes up"
*This is for historical and decorative purposes only
*Can not be sold to Califorinia residents
*If purchased assault rock must be watched carefully as they can develop a mind of their own
*Buyer's responsibility to check all local laws and regulations
*All ATF and NFA rules and regulations apply

From The Doctor of BBQ
2709 S 6th Street
Springfield Illinois

MR2
02-10-2013, 19:51
Where does the scope attach?

PSM
02-10-2013, 20:49
Where does the scope attach?

Not only was my first grenade, in basic, a dud, but the iron sights fell off as well. :eek:

Pat

MAB32
02-11-2013, 17:19
Tactical Assault Rock - $12 (Springfield)

Tactical Assault Rock from Cro-Magnum Arms International(CAI) NOW IN BLACK!

CROMAGNUM ARMS INTERNATIONAL(CAI) ASSAULT ROCK-TACTICAL MODEL

The assault rock is back. These have been flying off the shelf since Cain first took the tactical advantage against Abel.

Get this low speed, high drag assault rock while you still can. This is next on Dianne Feinstein's list.

NOW IN EXTRA TACTICAL BLACK!

Features:
-enhanced grip texture
-easily concealable
-can be thrown as fast as you can swing your arm
-low tech tactical black spray paint


ALL PROFIT WILL BE DONATED TO NRA-ILA

CALL, FAX, EMAIL, WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN

*This is not a weapon.
*This can not be attached to a weapon
*Does not include the "shoulder thing that goes up"
*This is for historical and decorative purposes only
*Can not be sold to Califorinia residents
*If purchased assault rock must be watched carefully as they can develop a mind of their own
*Buyer's responsibility to check all local laws and regulations
*All ATF and NFA rules and regulations apply

From The Doctor of BBQ
2709 S 6th Street
Springfield Illinois




Well, they finally made one. I am impressed with its, ah, somewhat of a different shape for each one. SWAT Black too! These should of been classified "NOFORN LIMDIS, TOP SECRET".

Now Manufacturers will start to flood the market with aftermarket accessories for this unique item.

MAB32
02-11-2013, 17:25
Not only was my first grenade, in basic, a dud, but the iron sights fell off as well. :eek:

Pat



Since I was declined for a spot on our military, my only exposure was to the Def-Tec No. 25. First one I threw hit the tire innertube just inside the door of the practice house and bounced back and blew waist high amongst the four of us. :(

BOfH
02-11-2013, 21:34
Entire post


What?! No rails!? Srsly :rolleyes: :D