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Penn
01-03-2013, 09:59
Its deer season in PA and I was zeroing my .308, target was a fungus growth on an oak tree appox, Dist 100+ yrds. I centered the cross hairs of my mil dot scope on the edges of the fungus, gun was in a shooting rest; when I checked the shot I realized that the bullet was a bit low of center, but more importantly, it did not penetrated the oak. Temp was 21. 5^F. I am wondering if the load was off, short on powder, or the tree frozen that a BH 175 Match would bounce off?
Has anyone ever experienced this?

MR2
01-03-2013, 10:21
That's some tough fungi...

mark46th
01-03-2013, 10:42
"Damn English oak!" Jack Aubrey, Master and Commander, Far Side of the World...

Penn
01-03-2013, 11:00
Humor noted; but I am serious, should I get a shot,I don't want to injury the deer, I want to drop it.

BryanK
01-03-2013, 11:35
I'm in no way affiliated with 'em, but you could always use a box of factory Federal Vital-Shok (Nosler partition) 180 gr rounds, or the Federal Vital-Shok 150 gr Nosler ballistic tips. I recently dropped a doe at 300 yds using the Federal 150 gr Ballistic Tips. She dropped/rolled right where she stood :D

mark46th
01-03-2013, 13:27
Penn- Did you only fire one round? If two or three failed to penetrate a tree, there may be a problem. Have you weighed them? if the weights vary, there may be an issue.

koz
01-03-2013, 14:42
Are you 100% sure it didn't penetrate the oak? Often it will look as though it didn't penetrate but in reality, the tree closed back on the bullet. Did you find the bullet?

edited to add: Looking at the picture again, I think the bullet did penetrate but did not go thru the oak. The "wound channel" on the tree will not be soft like you think.

I'd chronograph the round in your rifle. You should get around 2400-2700 depending on the rifle and barrel length. If you're sure it bounced off, I have Jeff Hoffman's (owner of Black Hills) phone number.

175SMK's aren't great on penetration. A bonded bullet will do much better. Remington Core Lokt Ultra Bond, Nosler Accubond, or Barnes TSX/TTSX will do really well against flesh and bone.

I buddy of mine just dropped two does with one shot with the (308) Barnes 130gr TTSX @ 230yrs. They were standing next to each other. The bullet ended up in the skin of second deer but clipped the top of the heart. Lost one petal but retained most of the weight.

Dusty
01-03-2013, 15:05
Did the tree scream?

craigepo
01-03-2013, 16:05
Might go back out, take a couple more rounds, shoot said tree again(or even some phone books). See what the holes look like. Ammo factories mess up once in a while. Pheasant hunting last year, a friend tripped the trigger on a shotgun round, and the pellets rolled out the end of the shotgun.

I handload for my .308. You should not have a problem discerning a bullet hole. They do really well on whitetails.

The Reaper
01-03-2013, 18:18
Clearly, that ammo is defective, and should be sent to me for professional disposal.

Seriously, that looks to me exactly like every other tree I have shot. What did you expect it to look like?

TR

Penn
01-03-2013, 19:18
TR, Koz, Craigepo, el et, I have always zero using a grid target on a range, and only once before, zeroed in the field. Yes, I know thatís really weak, but thatís my experience. That said, I expected to find an entry hole, when I didnít, I made the decision not to hunt until I understood what was going on with the Ammo.

Confused over the outcome, I did not fire more rounds, but will go back tomorrow with a skewer to see if the tree has a round in it, or not. If it does, I think Iíll be GTG, In the meantime, Iíll weigh the rounds on the gram scale at the restaurant, that will be a clear indication if something is amiss.

To all, thank you for your insight, your time and consideration. I'll follow up tomorrow with the exam and weights. Tx, d

The Reaper
01-03-2013, 19:26
TR, Koz, Craigepo, el et, I have always zero using a grid target on a range, and only once before, zeroed in the field. Yes, I know thatís really weak, but thatís my experience. That said, I expected to find an entry hole, when I didnít, I made the decision not to hunt until I understood what was going on with the Ammo.

Confused over the outcome, I did not fire more rounds, but will go back tomorrow with a skewer to see if the tree has a round in it, or not. If it does, I think Iíll be GTG, In the meantime, Iíll weigh the rounds on the gram scale at the restaurant, that will be a clear indication if something is amiss.

To all, thank you for your insight, your time and consideration. I'll follow up tomorrow with the exam and weights. Tx, d

D:

Sure looks like an entry on that tree to me.

I seriously doubt if there will be an appreciable difference in cartridge weight, or if that would keep a .308 round from penetrating the bark of a tree.

TR

Peregrino
01-03-2013, 21:12
Relax. The bullet is somewhere in the tree, probably between 8 - 12" in. You stuck the equivalent of an ice pick in the tree. Green wood will close in and largely obscure the entry. It will also absorb the energy fairly quickly relative to other mediums.

DO NOT go hunting with that ammo. Your responsibility is a humane harvest; use the right ammo. BTHPM IS NOT a suitable bullet for hunting. Get something in the 155 - 165 gr. range that will expand in your chosen game animal at your most likely engagement range. And re-zero your rifle with the hunting round. Your elevation will vary enough to adversely affect hunting accuracy.

tim180a
01-04-2013, 13:35
Did the tree scream?

Made my day! Thanks Dusty! :D

mark46th
01-04-2013, 22:16
Penn- I have a pig hunt scheduled out here on the left coast at the end of March. We hunt an area with barley fields and grape vines... If you get your rifle dialed in, come on out...

Stiletto11
01-05-2013, 09:52
If the round was a Sierra Match King they recommend not using this round for hunting because it doesn't have the expansion of a softer hunting round. See sierra loading manual 5th Edition. Also, if there was residual oil or solvent in the barrel and it was a cold bore shot the point of impact could be affected. A patch run through the barrel with denatured alcohol usually eliminates any residual solvents or oils in the barrel. 175 gr are less effective at shorter ranges out to 300 yds, they are usually used for longer range shooting due to the stability of the heavier round. 168 gr is often used for the shorter ranges and hunting. Hope this helps. Good Hunting!

Dusty
01-05-2013, 10:20
If the round was a Sierra Match King they recommend not using this round for hunting because it doesn't have the expansion of a softer hunting round. See sierra loading manual 5th Edition. Also, if there was residual oil or solvent in the barrel and it was a cold bore shot the point of impact could be affected. A patch run through the barrel with denatured alcohol usually eliminates any residual solvents or oils in the barrel. 175 gr are less effective at shorter ranges out to 300 yds, they are usually used for longer range shooting due to the stability of the heavier round. 168 gr is often used for the shorter ranges and hunting. Hope this helps. Good Hunting!

All you need to do is get some good 150 gr HP or Silvertip bullets and change your dope to kill anything in the state. As long as the gun will keep the round within MOF.

Penn
01-05-2013, 23:51
Again, Tx to all who are interested in improving/educating/advancing/ the collective experience of this forum.


As previously stated, I checked the tree with a skewer and sure enough it hit something metallic. The tree did close up around the entrance hole, which the inexperienced cannot know. And I must admit, being a tree hugger that I had some reservation zeroing on the tree in the first place, but should have researched what my outcome could be and what result to expect, I should have known what was stated here as fact before pulling the trigger.
That said, I think there is a business opportunity here for those interested in conducting a clinic for those unfortunate souls like myself, who could benefit from your collective experience. I truly want to take the short and long shot, but realize the constraints of experience, and as Peregrino stated, the importance of a humane harvest, is paramount to all other consideration.
What is the correct round to use, especially for those like myself who do not load their own rounds and must relied on commercial manufacturing, what is the correct match, generically, for gun, game, food on the table?

The Reaper
01-06-2013, 10:24
Again, Tx to all who are interested in improving/educating/advancing/ the collective experience of this forum.


As previously stated, I checked the tree with a skewer and sure enough it hit something metallic. The tree did close up around the entrance hole, which the inexperienced cannot know. And I must admit, being a tree hugger that I had some reservation zeroing on the tree in the first place, but should have researched what my outcome could be and what result to expect, I should have known what was stated here as fact before pulling the trigger.
That said, I think there is a business opportunity here for those interested in conducting a clinic for those unfortunate souls like myself, who could benefit from your collective experience. I truly want to take the short and long shot, but realize the constraints of experience, and as Peregrino stated, the importance of a humane harvest, is paramount to all other consideration.
What is the correct round to use, especially for those like myself who do not load their own rounds and must relied on commercial manufacturing, what is the correct match, generically, for gun, game, food on the table?

Different rounds for different game, amigo.

What game do you want to take?

TR

Stiletto11
01-06-2013, 13:10
Start with this: Federal Premiumģ Vital-Shokģ - .308 Win. 165gr Sierra GameKing BTSP, go to a range (not a tree) and zero your weapon at 100yds. Your group of three rounds down range should all fall in a one inch circle to be 1 MOA. There's plenty of information available to you if you have the desire to learn this stuff you just have to be willing to do the research. Like the Reaper said, different rounds and loads for different game. Best.

Penn
01-06-2013, 21:38
TR. Deer, (if I ever get a tag Elk,) Antelope, and Wild Boar.

BryanK
01-07-2013, 06:15
From my limited experience (long range is a relatively new hobby), for paper targets go for the factory 175gr Federal Gold Medal Match (Sierra match kings). For a medium-sized game hunting round, use the 150gr Federal Vital-Shok Ballistic Tip. However, you should try to get ahold of the 180gr Federal vital-shok's (NP) for similar trajectory of the 175gr Sierra's for taking game. The 150gr weren't that far off target @ 300yds, but any further distance or gusty wind would probably throw it off track. I've never shot an elk, but anything over 165gr should work.

Stiletto11
01-07-2013, 18:32
You obviously didn't read the above thread regarding the Sierra Match King round.

Brush Okie
01-07-2013, 18:57
I like the Hornady SST rounds in 165 gr myself. My hunting rifle will keep 1/2 MOA with factory hornady with this bullet IF I do my part.

Penn
01-07-2013, 22:54
The bullet (Federal .308 Win Hi Shok Soft Point) placement knocked this deer down in mid stride. It was walking across the field from R > L. I had a broadside shot, but not knowing what the bullet would do, not wanting to hit bone on the way in, I did not want to look for a wounded animal. So I tracked it a bit to the left, when I felt I had a clear sweet spot strike, I squeezed the trigger. The deer feel to the ground, kicked its leg once, or twice, and then stopped all movement.

BryanK
01-08-2013, 06:05
Congratulations on a nice deer Penn! Good shooting :cool:

@Stiletto11: You obviously didn't read the above thread regarding the Sierra Match King round.

I can see how you could read that, but actually I just expounded on your post a bit. You spoke of the 165 GameKing, not the Partitions or the Ballistic tips.

Dusty
01-08-2013, 07:42
Midway's having a e-blast sale on life-sized fungus targets...

Stiletto11
01-10-2013, 17:14
Like everything else they are "SOLD OUT." You can back order if you like and we won't charge your credit card til they ship.:D