View Full Version : Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
West Point senior says the prosletyzing favortism at USMA has finally gotten to him and he's resigning.
Richard :munchin
Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Cadet Blake Page, 3 Dec 2012
The title West Point Graduate carries a great deal of weight in this world. Those who earn it are given a "golden ticket" and wear a "ring of power" which will certainly carry them to successful careers with doors flung open in the military, in business, even in personal relationships; as so many are seduced by the historic prestige of the United States Military Academy. All of these things seem enticing, but for me personally they are not worth it. As I write this, I am five months from graduation. After nearly three and a half years here, there is no reason to suspect that I would be in any way incapable of completing the final requirements and walking across the stage in Michie Stadium with diploma in hand in another 174 days. Choosing to resign at this point also carries significant risk. The Army may seek recoupment in the form of about $200-300k which I will personally owe, or an additional term of up to 5 years of enlisted service. What could possibly compel me to pass over this incredible opportunity in exchange for such harsh penalties?
While there are certainly numerous problems with the developmental program at West Point and all service academies, the tipping point of my decision to resign was the realization that countless officers here and throughout the military are guilty of blatantly violating the oaths they swore to defend the Constitution. These men and women are criminals, complicit in light of day defiance of the Uniform Code of Military Justice through unconstitutional proselytism, discrimination against the non-religious and establishing formal policies to reward, encourage and even at times require sectarian religious participation. These transgressions are nearly always committed in the name of fundamentalist evangelical Christianity. The sparse leaders who object to these egregious violations are relegated to the position of silent bystanders, because they understand all too well the potential ramifications of publically expressing their loyalty to the laws of our country. These are strong words that I do not use lightly, but after years of clear personal observation I am certain that they are true. The following excerpt is from my official letter of resignation from West Point:
I do not wish to be in any way associated with an institution which willfully disregards the Constitution of the United States of America by enforcing policies which run counter to the same. Examples of these policies include mandatory prayer, the maintenance of the 3rd Regiment Shield, awarding extra passes to Plebes who take part in religious retreats and chapel choirs, as well as informal policies such as the open disrespect of non-religious new cadets and incentivizing participation in religious activities through the chain of command.
As the President of the West Point Secular Student Alliance (SSA), a Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (MAAF) affiliate, and first Director of Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) Affairs at West Point, I have been in a position to hear countless cadets recount their personal stories of frustration in dealing with the ongoing oppressive and unconstitutional bigotry they face for being non-religious. Cadets often come to me to seek assistance, guidance and reassurance in response to instances of debasing harassment. Many here are regularly told they do not deserve a place in the military. They are shown through policy that the Constitution guarantees their freedom of, but not from religion. Many are publically chastised for seeking out a community of likeminded people because it is such a common belief that Humanism and other non-religious philosophies are inherently immoral and worse.
While dealing with the bureaucracy of the academy I have had my complaints ignored by several members of my direct military chain of command. The ranking chaplain here responded to some of these instances of clear prejudice with the useless statement that he will "do what [he] can in good conscience" (which was nothing) instead of fulfilling his legal obligations. In dealing with the Directorate of Cadet Activities I have seen the Secular Student Alliance denied recognition for two years because the former director of the organization did not see a reason to recognize an organization for support of nonreligious West Point cadets. Even after finally receiving hard-fought recognition this year, that same organization continues to work with us only half-heartedly. They have only begrudgingly given us a pitifully inadequate budget, continue to refuse to list us on their website, and one of their staff has openly laughed at the idea that we could organize a conference or even produce club t-shirts for our members.
In response to this utter nonsense, and much more, I initiated an Equal Opportunity investigation earlier this semester. I have received nothing but positive responses from the chain of command since then. The Commandant of Cadets himself, Brigadier General Theodore Martin, expressed what I perceived to be a sincere desire to see to it that these issues are dealt with quickly and severely. As happy as I was to hear his words and see his genuine concern expressed, his influence alone will not be enough to change the confidently bigoted culture of this sad place. The gulf between the intent of a General Officer and the execution of that intent by those in positions of immediate authority is massive in a complex bureaucracy entrenched in over 200 years of tradition. This chasm is widened by the rarity of people like General Martin who are willing to take on a proactive role in attempting to ensure that equality is established. The existence of decades of legal precedent and policies prohibiting this pervasive religious bigotry has not stopped it from happening in the past, and will most certainly not stop it from happening in the future so long as the many who oppose it remain too timid to stand up and be counted. I am making this stand in the hope that others will follow by whatever means they must. Perhaps now some of the 136 cadets, faculty and staff at West Point that are represented by the MRFF may find the courage to make themselves heard.
Although I have decided that I do not wish to be a part of the Long Gray Line, there are many other bright young men and women who will remain here and continue the work I started. Their efforts, combined with support from Jason Torpy and MAAF, Mikey Weinstein and the MRFF, Lyz Liddell and the rest of the wonderful staff of SSA national, and many other organizations will ultimately lead to the development of a flourishing community of support for non-religious cadets at West Point. It is pathetic that so many leaders in the military are comfortable with both subtly and brutally discriminating against non-religious members. Perhaps with enough external pressure brought to bear by continued civil rights activism, America's military leadership will one day soon be forced to realize that non-religious soldiers are not enemies of the state to be shunned, ridiculed and marginalized, but rather patriotic, honorable Americans to be respected as equals.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-page/west-point-religious-freedom_b_2232279.html
Old Dog New Trick
12-04-2012, 14:33
Via Con Dios, or Vaya Con Dios. :boohoo
Anyone who can't stand up to their own convictions shouldn't be in charge of other people. Maybe when he grows up he will be able look back and say, damn, I allowed those people to win.
I would really like to know where all these crazy Christians in the military are. I have lived my entire life in the military, and not once have I ever seen, heard, anything like this taking place. I have never had any soldier, marine or airmen come to me and say they feel persecuted for not being religious. I have never had a superior attempt to make me take part in any religious services, prayers etc. On the other hand, I did have to go through an entire day of Christian bashing, characterized as sensitivity training.
To me, the exact opposite of this young man's story is true. It is alright to be anything BUT a Christian lately.
As the President of the West Point Secular Student Alliance (SSA), a Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (MAAF) affiliate, and first Director of Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) Affairs at West Point, I have been in a position to hear countless cadets recount their personal stories of frustration in dealing with the ongoing oppressive and unconstitutional bigotry they face for being non-religious. I wonder about those who say that a number is "countless" or "too many to list" when they're trying to enhance the credibility of their POV. If the number is "countless," then so is the number of cadets at West Point. But since that number is knowable, then so is the number of cadets who've experienced the frustration Page describes.
Snaquebite
12-04-2012, 15:22
Transcript Transfer Request - DENIED
As the old saying goes...Don't the let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!
I will state up front I am not an overly religious person but I always wonder why these atheists never find any other groups besides Christians to go after? I mean, why don’t they throw up their protests as a Mosque or Synagogue?
Jersey Dirtbag
12-04-2012, 15:56
I will state up front I am not an overly religious person but I always wonder why these atheists never find any other groups besides Christians to go after? I mean, why don’t they throw up their protests as a Mosque or Synagogue?
I'm an atheist and it has been my experience that many of those who are outspoken about their atheism are less interested in the pursuit of truth and intellectual/scientific honesty than they are in the unmaking or transformation of any and all institutions founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Political atheism, in a sense, is really a disingenuous mask for various anti-Western agendas masquerading as a politically neutral search for truth. Being that Christianity underlies the majority of Western institutions, it is a natural target for these folks.
That said, I definitely felt uncomfortable in OCS at the Alabama Military Academy when the entire class was marched into the chapel, seated, and asked by cadre, "who would NOT like to attend church services?" I was the first to raise my hand, at which point several others raised theirs. We were informed that we were "not on free time" and placed on a work detail. This was obviously ridiculous, because no Jew or Buddhist is going to be happy to sit through Christian services either.
But rather than quit the whole game I just attributed it to some douchebag cadre members and moved on.
ZonieDiver
12-04-2012, 16:12
I somehow think that this young 'Kay-dette' has been waiting for this moment since the day he signed in up there on the Hudson.
Eagle5US
12-04-2012, 17:21
I'm an atheist and it has been my experience that many of those who are outspoken about their atheism are less interested in the pursuit of truth and intellectual/scientific honesty than they are in the unmaking or transformation of any and all institutions founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Political atheism, in a sense, is really a disingenuous mask for various anti-Western agendas masquerading as a politically neutral search for truth. Being that Christianity underlies the majority of Western institutions, it is a natural target for these folks.
That said, I definitely felt uncomfortable in OCS at the Alabama Military Academy when the entire class was marched into the chapel, seated, and asked by cadre, "who would NOT like to attend church services?" I was the first to raise my hand, at which point several others raised theirs. We were informed that we were "not on free time" and placed on a work detail. This was obviously ridiculous, because no Jew or Buddhist is going to be happy to sit through Christian services either.
But rather than quit the whole game I just attributed it to some douchebag cadre members and moved on.
You had me a big thumbs up until the final sentence. It has nothing to do with "douchebag cadre" - it had to do with you being in a place accountable for duty.
It was good that you were offered the opportunity not to participate in Chapel. That you say you were "uncomfortable" is your issue, no one else's.
If "no Jew or Buddhist is going to be happy about sitting through Christian services either"..then all THEY had to do was to raise THEIR hand.
Otherwise, their place of duty BY THEIR CHOICE was the Christian worship service.
Jersey Dirtbag
12-04-2012, 17:45
If "no Jew or Buddhist is going to be happy about sitting through Christian services either"..then all THEY had to do was to raise THEIR hand.
Otherwise, their place of duty BY THEIR CHOICE was the Christian worship service.
I agree with that. However, from the circumstances specific to the situation, it was clear that those of us who did not wish to participate were being penalized. This is a purely anecdotal assertion based on the impression I got at the time and I have no evidence to support it, but I've never had a reputation for being overly sensitive to these sorts of things (and since you read the first paragraph of my previous post, it should be evident that I'm certainly not a member of the political/militant atheist movement). My opinion is that if that work detail was so important, it should have taken precedence over religious services even for those who wanted to participate at that moment.
Regardless, it was a single instance of me disagreeing with one particular cadre member and I didn't feel compelled to write an article about it. ;)
Eagle5US
12-04-2012, 17:52
My opinion is that if that work detail was so important, it should have taken precedence over religious services even for those who wanted to participate at that moment.
I liked your the remainder of your post...
But again you miss my primary point...it has everything to do with accountability and finding something for folks to do (work/stand on your head/pass out fishes and loaves) who weren't doing something else (i.e. church).
That's all.:munchin
Maybe things have changed, but I can't recall ever being forced to attend any religious event. After morning duties during summer CBT, anyone that was interested in attending a service fellout of the company formation, formed up by faith and marched to the respective service location (Catholics to the cadence of "Left, Right, Left, Right, Ooh, Aah, Fisheaters!" :D). Truth be told, many attended for the time away from the barracks (those not attending a service could hang out in their rooms), along with the free cookies and punch. Once the academic year started, you made your own decision and your own way to services. Mass attendance generally dropped substantially come August, at least on Sunday mornings when cadets had the choice of sleeping in or getting into a dress uniform to go sit in a hard wooden pew for an hour or so.
Frankly, I'm glad this cadet has decided to leave before taking a commission and becoming responsible for the well-being of someone other than his own selfish ass. If he's this whiny about being exposed to the religious beliefs of others, then he would have been a real joy to work with (or worse, work for) once he joined the real Army and learned that accepting things you may not like or agree with is a regular part of the job.
Jersey Dirtbag, by sitting through those religious services, could you have potentially learned more about something that your soldiers (or coworkers, or employees, or...) believe and thus come to understand them and their worldview better?
blue02hd
12-04-2012, 19:25
Jersey,
This might be a thought that could help frame the bigger picture. As an Officer Candidate, did you ever consider the endless tasks, orders, and expectations that you as a young leader would place on the enlisted men who who would be expected to perform them without question, let alone whether they agreed with it or not?
I see him as a quitter.:boohoo He would have quit sooner or later, and hopefully not when his platoon (I don't think he would have made it to an Infantry Company) needed him. I think he is just trying to justify his decision and put the institution in a bad light.
IRT the cadet and the religious pressures he faced at the USMA - much like a similar situation at the USAFA several years ago, maybe we would have had to have been there to fully understand his position.
Richard :munchin
Roguish Lawyer
12-04-2012, 20:37
Did he sue yet? :rolleyes:
WAAAHHHH, bad people made me quit....or my grades did, or maybe I just couldn't cut it so I wrote a note blaming other folks for my failure.
What a bunch of crap toned to get sympathy from whomever.
Sounds like a certain Football player that killed his family and some are blaming the 2nd Ammendment rather than the perp.
Trapper John
12-04-2012, 20:48
Frankly, I'm glad this cadet has decided to leave before taking a commission and becoming responsible for the well-being of someone other than his own selfish ass. If he's this whiny about being exposed to the religious beliefs of others, then he would have been a real joy to work with (or worse, work for) once he joined the real Army and learned that accepting things you may not like or agree with is a regular part of the job.
I really like this point, Razor. I couldn't help but visualizing this cadet as a Company commander in a situation where he had to participate in the religious ceremonies with an indigenous tribal leader upon whose support his Company depends. Would he decline, because he was not religious and the "mandatory" service would offend his non-religious sensibilities? Would he risk offending the people upon whom the life of his men depends to satisfy his vanity.
That aside, he obviously had lousy SA. He knew the drill before accepting the appointment. Or is he so slow that it took 3.5 years for SA to dawn on him? If he is this poor at assessing his environment, then the USMA was too slow in weeding him out.
This is just another example of a behavior founded in the notion that "I am special and what I want matters most"...whine, whine, whine. Damn, the more I think about this the madder I am getting :mad: So I am going to stop :D
To be clear, I admire people who have the courage of their convictions, John Paul Vann for example. He stuck by his views, expressed them, and risked his career for them. That is courage!
This Cadet's resignation shows that he does not have that kind of courage.
Definitely, not a leader. Goodbye :D
The Reaper
12-04-2012, 20:50
I was made to go to church by my parents.
I go now when I feel like it.
They can make you sit in a pew, but they cannot make you worship.
That is between you, and your God. Or none.
I do not think the basic lessons of Christianity (or Judaism, Buddhism, etc.) are a bad foundation, or are dangerous to have those around you practicing today.
TR
Trapper John
12-04-2012, 20:53
I wonder about those who say that a number is "countless" or "too many to list" when they're trying to enhance the credibility of their POV. If the number is "countless," then so is the number of cadets at West Point. But since that number is knowable, then so is the number of cadets who've experienced the frustration Page describes.
:D I just love the way you think.
Roguish Lawyer
12-04-2012, 22:02
I do not think the basic lessons of Christianity (or Judaism, Buddhism, etc.) are a bad foundation, or are dangerous to have those around you practicing today.
"etc."? Do you include Islam, Sir? :D:munchin
Jersey Dirtbag
12-04-2012, 23:02
Jersey Dirtbag, by sitting through those religious services, could you have potentially learned more about something that your soldiers (or coworkers, or employees, or...) believe and thus come to understand them and their worldview better?
That's certainly a fair point. But while there may be some merit to better acquainting oneself with the culture and beliefs of one's subordinates, I think that's a decision best left to the individual. I have no ideological opposition to sitting in on a Christian service, but I do have a problem with being treated with disdain and penalized for choosing not to do so.
Jersey,
This might be a thought that could help frame the bigger picture. As an Officer Candidate, did you ever consider the endless tasks, orders, and expectations that you as a young leader would place on the enlisted men who who would be expected to perform them without question, let alone whether they agreed with it or not?
Absolutely. The distinction is that the orders and tasks I assign my men have an immediate and material impact on mission accomplishment and their welfare. My hypothetical attendance at a Christian service, while having some potential value as per my response to Razor, would have no such impact.
blue02hd
12-05-2012, 03:35
That's certainly a fair point. But while there may be some merit to better acquainting oneself with the culture and beliefs of one's subordinates, I think that's a decision best left to the individual. I have no ideological opposition to sitting in on a Christian service, but I do have a problem with being treated with disdain and penalized for choosing not to do so.
Absolutely. The distinction is that the orders and tasks I assign my men have an immediate and material impact on mission accomplishment and their welfare. My hypothetical attendance at a Christian service, while having some potential value as per my response to Razor, would have no such impact.
Really?
I'll argue that often there are times where there will not be such a distinction. Training for a 2 way range is just one minor example. YMMV.
IRT the cadet and the religious pressures he faced at the USMA - much like a similar situation at the USAFA several years ago, maybe we would have had to have been there to fully understand his position.
Richard :munchin
He certainly wrote a lengthly explanation of his position. I appreciate anyone who stands up for a minority view even if unpopular. I may not agree with them, but it is a hard path. That he gave up says that he thinks he can make a statement that is stronger by giving up or that he just wimped out.
His SA is what I would question and for that I am glad he was not commissioned. He should not lead men -- perhaps ever, certainly not now. I was recommended to West Point by some pretty good names (Patch/Bradley). I enlisted before my application was processed. I had limited SA at 17 years of age in a small town and a family of battlefield commissions and OCS and no Google. As a female, I did not want to take a slot that a male could potentially have in what I felt was our top school for officers who could fight in combat. I did not research enough to know about the mix in Army branches that make up the graduating classes. But I did have enough SA to know that West Point is strong on tradition. The cadet should not have been surprised that this was the case.
The other area, and most important that I think he missed, is the SA that said his country has been at war for the last decade. Maybe I am getting grouchy here, but all these clubs and organizations and requests for t-shirt funding... is that what cadets do? I am feeling really good about my enlistment just now :cool: We did make T-shirts for the Nijmegen march out of our pockets and sold them for extra cash. The Dutch Army funded all our drinks buying them at a ridiculous profit margin. :D
Badger52
12-05-2012, 08:02
Did he sue yet? :rolleyes:He's probably being contacted for a postable snapshot (http://ffrf.org/about/ffrf-honorary-board) this very minute. Maybe they'll help him pay his schooling costs back and be too broke to execute the latest crusade-of-the-week to move Little Town, America's nativity scene.
:rolleyes:
I am making an assumption here purely based on the sparse information available on him at this point and how the system works, but Cadet Page was prior service and must have demonstrated his leadership potential to his chain-of-command prior to being accepted into and during his USMA Prep School time. He was also not a plebe, but had been at the USMA for over 3 years and was set to graduate the end of this school year.
I'm not sure anybody knows why he's doing what he's doing at this point, except he himself. Maybe there's some merit to his claims - however, to what extent...? <shrug>
No matter how it all shakes out, it will be interesting to see what is made of all this and what becomes of his actions.
Richard :munchin
As more details emerge, I'd guess we'll find out that he's failing in either academics or leadership, and since DADT is no longer an "easy out" option, he's working a different angle to leave "on his own terms" rather than be kicked out for failing something. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.
I'm an atheist and it has been my experience that many of those who are outspoken about their atheism are less interested in the pursuit of truth and intellectual/scientific honesty than they are in the unmaking or transformation of any and all institutions founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
In my experience, your statement applies just as accurately to many of the niche groups in American society who are parading around screaming for 'equality'. The 'equality' they seek is exactly as you stated "transformation of any and all institutions founded on Judeo-Christian principles".
Jersey Dirtbag
12-05-2012, 15:25
In my experience, your statement applies just as accurately to many of the niche groups in American society who are parading around screaming for 'equality'. The 'equality' they seek is exactly as you stated "transformation of any and all institutions founded on Judeo-Christian principles".
Indeed. There are many movements which, if undertaken apolitically, are commendable and have value to society in general. Environmentalism comes to mind. However, we know that modern environmentalism is primarily a facade for anti-capitalism and it achieves its unstated end through lobbying for carbon taxes and other penalties on corporations.
The flip side of this coin is, of course, the conservative/Republican backlash which comes in various forms. Some of them are rather crude and consist of labeling the "environmentalists" as tree-huggers and other such names. However, this mocks not the subversive, anti-Western/anti-capitalist core of their agenda but rather the environmentalism itself, which -- as I said -- is actually a commendable undertaking. Thus the Republicans and "conservatives" make idiots of themselves by mocking an apparently virtuous position and totally missing the fact that all its supposed virtuosity is simply a cover for the underlying motivation, which is to systematically disassemble/destroy Western civilization.
As one of my favorite bloggers asks rhetorically, "where would the Democrats be without the Republicans?"
.............. Thus the Republicans and "conservatives" make idiots of themselves by mocking an apparently virtuous position and totally missing the fact that all its supposed virtuosity is simply a cover for the underlying motivation, which is to systematically disassemble/destroy Western civilization.........................
You must have missed the clip on Tree Huggers we have floating around here.
There is a big difference between "Tree Huggers" and people who are "Conservationalists".
Indeed. There are many movements which, if undertaken apolitically, are commendable and have value to society in general. Environmentalism comes to mind. However, we know that modern environmentalism is primarily a facade for anti-capitalism and it achieves its unstated end through lobbying for carbon taxes and other penalties on corporations.
The flip side of this coin is, of course, the conservative/Republican backlash which comes in various forms. Some of them are rather crude and consist of labeling the "environmentalists" as tree-huggers and other such names. However, this mocks not the subversive, anti-Western/anti-capitalist core of their agenda but rather the environmentalism itself, which -- as I said -- is actually a commendable undertaking. Thus the Republicans and "conservatives" make idiots of themselves by mocking an apparently virtuous position and totally missing the fact that all its supposed virtuosity is simply a cover for the underlying motivation, which is to systematically disassemble/destroy Western civilization.
As one of my favorite bloggers asks rhetorically, "where would the Democrats be without the Republicans?"I think you are painting with too broad a brush. Many capitalists, such as those who support LEED (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CD4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usgbc.org%2FDisplayPage.aspx% 3FCategoryID%3D19&ei=jL-_ULz0KejKiwLn-4HYAw&usg=AFQjCNGVvN4gFGwi8yNbB19jSDWiOCjaQw), are turning to various flavors of environmentalism because they believe it will help lower costs, and that these projected savings can help the bottom line.
(Hey, notice how I used green in that <<LINK>> and how there's only one <<LINK>>, and how I didn't write "<<LINK>>"?:D I r lerning!:p)
Jersey Dirtbag
12-05-2012, 16:11
You must have missed the clip on Tree Huggers we have floating around here.
There is a big difference between "Tree Huggers" and people who are "Conservationalists".
I did miss it, and I agree with that distinction.
I think you are painting with too broad a brush. Many capitalists, such as those who support LEED (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CD4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usgbc.org%2FDisplayPage.aspx% 3FCategoryID%3D19&ei=jL-_ULz0KejKiwLn-4HYAw&usg=AFQjCNGVvN4gFGwi8yNbB19jSDWiOCjaQw), are turning to various flavors of environmentalism because they believe it will help lower costs, and that these projected savings can help the bottom line.
That's a good point, and it's basically what I was attempting to convey. It's the anti-capitalist agenda and its obfuscation which should be condemned, rather than the substance of the movement being used as a facade.
Looks like he is out and debt-free...
Military Religious Freedom Foundation
Blake Page, a senior at West Point, has announced he will leave the military academy to protest what he says is unconstitutional proselytizing by officers and discrimination against non-religious cadets.
By Kari Huus, NBC News
Updated Dec. 5, 2:25 p.m. ET: Cadet Blake Page has learned from his superiors at West Point that he will be given an honorable discharge and not be required to pay "recoupment" costs for three and a half years at the military academy. He told NBC News that when out-processing is finished, he will move to Minnesota and "continue the work I've started in whatever way I can."
Well, seems like we have a motive....very high end free education...3 years worth.
A few years ago he would have said he was gay for the same deal.
Well here is the real reason he quit and made this show.
ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — A cadet quitting West Point less than six months before graduation says he could no longer be part of a culture that promotes prayers and religious activities and disrespects nonreligious cadets.
Blake Page announced his decision to quit the U.S. Military Academy this week in a much-discussed online post that echoed the sentiments of soldiers and airmen at other military installations. The 24-year-old told The Associated Press that a determination this semester that he could not become an officer because of clinical depression played a role in his public protest against what he calls the unconstitutional prevalence of religion in the military.
"I've been trying since I found that out: What can I do? What can I possibly do to initiate the change that I want to see and so many other people want to see?" Page said. "I realized that this is one way I can make that change happen."
Page criticized a culture where cadets stand silently for prayers, where nonreligious cadets were jokingly called "heathens" by instructors at basic training and where one officer told him he'd never be a leader until he filled the hole in his heart. In announcing his resignation this week on The Huffington Post, he denounced "criminals" in the military who violate the oaths they swore to defend the Constitution.
"I don't want to be a part of West Point knowing that the leadership here is OK with just shrugging off and shirking off respect and good order and discipline and obeying the law and defending the Constitution and doing their job," he told the AP.
West Point officials on Wednesday disputed those assertions. Spokeswoman Theresa Brinkerhoff said prayer is voluntary at events where invocations and benedictions are conducted and noted the academy has a Secular Student Alliance club, where Page served as president.
Maj. Nicholas Utzig, the faculty adviser to the secular club, said he doesn't doubt some of the moments Page described, but he doesn't believe there is systematic discrimination against nonreligious cadets.
"I think it represents his own personal experience and perhaps it might not be as universal as he suggests," said Utzig, who teaches English literature.
One of Page's secularist classmates went further, calling his characterization of West Point unfair.
"I think it's true that the majority of West Point cadets are of a very conservative, Christian orientation," said senior cadet Andrew Houchin. "I don't think that's unique to West Point. But more broadly, I've never had that even be a problem with those of us who are secular."
There have been complaints over the years that the wall between church and state is not always observed in the military. The Air Force Academy in Colorado in particular has been scrutinized for years over allegations from non-Christian students that they faced intolerance. A retired four-star general was asked last year to conduct an independent review of the overall religious climate at the academy.
There also has been a growing willingness in recent years by some service members to publicly identify themselves as atheists, agnostics or humanists and to seek the same recognition granted to Christians, Jews and other believers. Earlier this year, there was an event at Fort Bragg that was the first known event in U.S. military history to cater to nonbelievers.
Page said he hears about the plight of other nonreligious cadets in part through his involvement with the West Point affiliate of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. The founder and president of that advocacy group said Page's action is a milestone in the fight against "fanatical religiosity" in the military.
"This is an extraordinary act of courage that I do compare directly to what Rosa Parks did," said Mikey Weinstein.
Page, who is from Stockbridge, Ga., and who was accepted into West Point after serving in the Army, said he was notified Tuesday of his honorable discharge. He faces no military commitment and will not have to reimburse the cost of his education.
West Point confirmed that it approved his resignation and that Page had been meeting the academic standards and was not undergoing any disciplinary actions. Page said he had been medically disqualified this semester from receiving a commission in the Army as a second lieutenant — like his classmates will receive in May — because of clinical depression and anxiety. He said his condition has gotten worse since his father killed himself last year.
It's not unusual for cadets to drop out of West Point, an institution known for its rigorous academic and physical demands. But the window for dropping out without the potential for a penalty is in the first two years. Dropouts are rare after that point.
Page expects to leave for his grandparents' home in Wright County, Minn., in the coming days. He plans to remain an activist on the role of religion in the military.
"I'd really love to be able to do this for the rest of my life," he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/cadet-quits-cites-overt-religion-west-point-211844765.html
"where would the Democrats be without the Republicans?"
In charge?
Not that they're doing a very good job of preventing that...
The Reaper
12-05-2012, 21:19
"etc."? Do you include Islam, Sir? :D:munchin
Did I mention them?
I would say that would depend on my ROE for the encounter.
Someone might tell Mr. Page that religion is good for the soul, and for clinical depression.
TR
Old Dog New Trick
12-05-2012, 21:55
It says his father killed himself last year. :( That must weigh heavy on the mind. Wonder if it helped him to become an Atheist?
I wish this lad well, he will have a troubled life ahead...it must be difficult to self select failure over such a petty difference as to some other's beliefs and actions that bears so little consequence on the bigger picture called life.
I too am not a religious person per se. Having grown up in the Christian faith, studying many forms of religion during my military years, mostly to understand my potential enemy, and to have a deeper understanding of what motivates people at the core level. I find that Buddhism is something I can relate to but, I fail miserably at the thought of living a spartan life without material things...
P.S. I have no idea how Republicans and Conservatives, or Capitalism got into this discussion but I suppose if we were discussing UC Davis, or Stanford we'd probably be having a weed hugging discussion about birth control instead, and the effects of Liberal Socialism and the Catholic Church :p
fasteddie565
12-06-2012, 07:30
I am ashamed to say that the modern day officer corps spends too much time worrying about their collective careers and managing powerpoint slides as opposed to leading men in combat.
How can we expect their replacements to be any different? While I am glad that he decided to resign due to his inability to lead, I for one do not give two flying fucks about his being exposed to religion. Did he really think it would be bettwer once on AD? How many other rights do service members give up? What makes him any different? As ODNT stated Via Con Dios. Now let's watch and see if he files for a VA claim of disability. :munchin
MrBox2113
12-07-2012, 06:03
I am ashamed to say that the modern day officer corps spends too much time worrying about their collective careers and managing powerpoint slides as opposed to leading men in combat.
How can we expect their replacements to be any different? While I am glad that he decided to resign due to his inability to lead, I for one do not give two flying fucks about his being exposed to religion. Did he really think it would be bettwer once on AD? How many other rights do service members give up? What makes him any different? As ODNT stated Via Con Dios. Now let's watch and see if he files for a VA claim of disability. :munchin
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/citizen_cane.gif
AngelsSix
12-07-2012, 07:18
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/citizen_cane.gif
Seconded. That was the first thing that entered my mind. He now has a free three year education at a good school, a military discharge for a "disability" and an ax to grind. He will go into politics and become another lovely "productive" citizen of this country being what we term in NY as "a PAIN IN EVERYONE'S COLLECTIVE ASSES!". :D
The way this has all shaken out, it sounds as if Cadet Page has a number of issues to deal with.
Richard :munchin
miclo18d
12-07-2012, 08:38
The most effed up part is that he is probably here lurking to see what the QPs are saying about him. Just another leech on society's underarm.
ECUPirate09
02-15-2013, 21:08
Blake Page was ordered to pay back the cost of his education. Looks like it might go to trial though.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/14/16966278-army-wants-outspoken-west-point-cadet-to-pay-up
This individual is no doubt disabled and in line for some sort of govt. check
Three cheers for the reviewer.
"Asked why Huntoon’s recommendations on Page’s behalf were rejected, Johnson said:
"We are an impartial third party. We review each individual packet … There’s merit to an organization such as the academy and a three-star general making a recommendation. But if it were always in their favor, there would be no reason for us to review the packets."
Blake Page was ordered to pay back the cost of his education. Looks like it might go to trial though.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/14/16966278-army-wants-outspoken-west-point-cadet-to-pay-up
An interesting response to the article:
brooklyn22
A quick biography on the writer, having been part of his company at one time.
Understanding Cadet Page would probably be the greatest asset to this post and the greatest asset in dissuading readers of his viability as a non-bias source of information. Cadet Page has had numerous instances throughout his experience in West Point in which he has been found lacking in standards. I will point to two instances of Cadet Page failing to uphold any standard while in a chain of command position. In the summer of 2011, Cadet Page was given a 1st Sergeant(position) within Alpha Company during the Second Detail of the introductory training "BEAST" for cadet candidates. However, dissatisfied with the conduct of his superior officers, Cadet Page, instead of using proper channels, took a video of all that he thought was wrong with his regimental staff. When his ploy to remove his superiors with the help of fellow 1st Sergeants was thwarted, Cadet Page was summarily removed from any command position for the summer. The second incident spans all of the following semester when yet again, Cadet Page was given a 1st Sergeant position within G-3.Throughout his time as the 1st Sergeant, there were multiple incidents of him missing taps (mandatory report times at night) due to excessive alcohol intake. The final straw was after the Air Force Game in Colorado Springs where both his Commanding Officer and he missed the movement formation after consuming a large number of alcoholic drinks the night before. Thus, Cadet Page was removed from his second chain of command position, and the last one that he would hold as a cadet. Cadet Page’s interaction with the academy before he became such a staunch advocate of non-religious policy can be defined as one of misconduct and general subversion.
This post is only meant to expose those who believe that such a man is truly fighting for their rights to be non-religious. However, after examining his career within the academy, it is easy to identify that this cause perhaps is just the latest in a string of incidents in attempting to gain either recognition or notoriety for rejecting the system. Cadet Page’s standing in the academy derides any legitimate chance that this last-ditch attempt will succeed in garnering anything besides more scorn and ridicule. While I wish him the best of luck as a citizen of the greatest nation on Earth, I recognize this was never a profession for him.
If the author can be believed, it sounds like Cadet Page was being less than truthful.
Utah Bob
02-16-2013, 13:59
Sounds a bit like the subversive Cadet Sharp, Eroll Flynn's nemesis in "They Died with their Boots on"
I learned everything about the army form that movie.:p