Thirst for Learning

[The Reaper]

The Thirst for Learning
By JOHN M. RODGERS

Published: October 17, 2012

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/opinion/south-koreas-thirst-for-learning.html?ref=global&_r=0

YEOLSIMHI haeyo, Koreans say. Work hard. The phrase is spoken endlessly and serves both as a rallying call and a reminder that no one likes whiners. And no matter how hard a student is working, he or she can always work harder — or so goes the theory.

After all, the nation itself rose from decades of Japanese colonization and the ashes of the Korean War through hard work. South Korea became a model for economic growth and host of the Olympic Games and the World Cup in a feat known as “The Miracle on the Han River.”

Every weekday morning for well over 200 days a year the students arrived at the elite South Korean prep school where I taught English by 7:40 a.m. Teachers and supervisor students were waiting outside the entrance to check their hair (for length and style — no perms or dying allowed) and attire (uniform shirts tucked in, skirts at the knee, formal shoes).

Then they climbed the stairs to their homerooms where they mopped floors, scrubbed desks, wiped windows and cleared trash. The academic day would begin at 8, pausing for 10-minute breaks, a 50-minute lunch and an hour-long dinner at 5 p.m.

At 6 p.m. when I usually shut down my computer, the students would be settling into their seats for four more hours of self-study during which teachers would monitor them to make sure they did not surrender to sleep, chat or do anything other than study. At 10:20 p.m. classes emptied. Liberated kids headed to waiting buses for their ride home (few lived nearby). Most students wouldn’t see bed until after midnight. An old adage recommends four hours of sleep a night in order to enter a top university.

Throughout the years that I taught at the high school, I both marveled and cringed at what the school, parents and the country expected of the students — and how the students tried to live up to those expectations.

Sometimes when I would leave school late — 8 or 9 p.m. — I’d glance into classrooms to watch the students busy at work, perusing their books, some standing at the back of the room to ward off sleep, all seemingly determined to live up to the expectations placed upon them. What about their youth?, I sometimes thought as I walked down the hill with the lights of the school behind me.

Upon returning to America, an old professor offered me the opportunity to speak to his freshman philosophy classes about my years in Asia. Excited, I assembled a presentation while thinking of my Korean classes where students would soak up material, sometimes too quietly.

In front of a class of 20 college freshman, the first thing I noticed were electronic devices on nearly every desk — cellphones, laptops, an iPad. A few minutes into my presentation, I saw a boy fiddling with his phone under the desk, another typing on her laptop and a third typing on her phone in full view. “Would you mind?” I asked. With a bothered look they returned their attention to the discussion, but not for long — they were at it again some minutes later. Subsequent classes differed little.

Later, in the professor’s office, I asked about the general demeanor of students while mentioning the kids in Korea.

“When I retire I will write a book about the collapse of the American university,” he told me. “There is little thirst for learning, for doing the hard work.”

“What about the devices?” I asked.

“They’re everywhere,” he answered, “and even when they’re banned the kids use them somehow.”

A dire assessment for sure, but the professor, who’s been teaching for 30 years, went on to say that I was there for five kids, more or less. That those kids — the ones who asked questions, expressed interest — would go on to do great things because they “take themselves and you seriously,” as he put it.

My presentation finished, I walked across the quiet New England campus, breathing in the cool autumn air, thinking that across the ocean it would be about 9 a.m., the students would be seated at their desks listening attentively, working hard and, most likely, taking things a bit more seriously than a lot of kids in America, for better or worse.

John M. Rodgers, an adjunct professor at Plymouth State University in New Hampshire, is editor-in-chief of The Three Wise Monkeys and editor-at-large of Groove Korea.

[Barbarian]

Excellent post, Sir.

Teaching, IMVHO, is one of the most important, an most under-respected jobs (callings) in society. Helping the less experienced make themselves more capable. Noble work.

Being 26yo, and looking back- I squandered my time in college, by making short-sighted decisions of convenience. I wasn't one of those who learned early on, that seemingly small decisions have lasting consequences. That simple lesson didn't stick 'till life hammered it in. No one to blame for that one, but me.

My rambling point, though, is that most of my instructors over the years never wavered in their efforts to help me be a better person-man-American. They kept faith in me, despite my irresponsibility. The effect was delayed, but I've benefited a gread deal, thanks to their efforts.

I hope good teachers don't think their work goes unappreciated. The truth is, it makes all the difference in the world. Just maybe not right away.

NT

[Badger52]

That's a great piece. Thanks for finding & sharing that.

[Solar]

Thank you sir for posting that.

Being at a community college myself I see this behavior all too often and am guilty of it at times.

By frequently viewing this board I've become a better student, soldier, and person and am glad that this source of knowledge is available to the public.

This thirst for learning is rare among my fellow peers. For example, in my physics course we had over 20 students start this course but soon dropped to 9 students I'm assuming because they realized that this wouldn't be an "easy A" that too many liberal teachers are offering just to increase their rating on ratemyprofessor.com.

They look at difficult courses as things avoid instead of obstacles to overcome.

Again thank you all QPs and non-QPs for making this board such a valuable place to learn.

[Sigaba]

For example, in my physics course we had over 20 students start this course but soon dropped to 9 students I'm assuming because they realized that this wouldn't be an "easy A" that too many liberal teachers are offering just to increase their rating on ratemyprofessor.com.

FWIW/FYI, grade inflation has been a topic of conversation in the past. IMO, the issue is slightly more complicated than you suggest.

http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20111

[Richard]

Grade inflation began shortly after the concept of awarding such grades began in the first decades of the 19th Century - and has been the topic of much heated debate since.

Richard

[cbtengr]

A very good read and an excellant example of the mentality that exists amongst those students in Korea. I had a friend who would not live in a community where there was a good chance that his kids would have to go to school with Chinese kids, he was afraid that they would make his kids look stupid because the Chinese kids were so much smarter than the American kids. I told him that it was not the fact that they were so much smarter it was just that they worked a lot harder at it. I have no idea as to what life in Korea is like today but 35 yrs ago when I was there you could tell that it was a hard life for the majority of Koreans, I do not recall their having a middle class.

[Geenie]

The culture of reverence towards higher education in Korea is impressive. However, while the diligence and ambition is admirable, I found that all too often the didactics used were somewhat archaic and did not serve the students well with regard to them being able to do anything other than reciting information that they had learned by heart.

The other side of the coin portrayed in the article, too, is that many students cannot cope with the pressure. I was at a top Korean university for 6 months, and I believe we had three suicides during that timeframe.

[frostfire]

The other side of the coin portrayed in the article, too, is that many students cannot cope with the pressure. I was at a top Korean university for 6 months, and I believe we had three suicides during that timeframe.

this is politically incorrect indeed, even against my faith, but a culture of honor tends to prune itself, leaving cream of the crop when the "knuckleheads" willingly remove themselves from the gene pool

I concur with the didactic emphasis as I went through that system. Took me a while hanging out with the SF-redneck types to get the hang of American ingenuity, adapt-improvise-overcome, git-r-done approach.

I am sure the future of America's university/student is not without reprieve as there are always exceptions. Case in point, I thought I was smart until I enrolled in engineering. As my grades were dropping, a blond sorority lady and one French lady helped me with homeworks and concepts. They were some of the smartest and most hard working people I ever worked with. I graduated with magna cum laude. I am sure they graduated with summa cum laude.

As Barbarian alluded, those students looking bothered when told to put away their electronic devices just might wake up one day and get it.

[medic&commo]

Great thread - thank you for finding the article.
Sad to see that America has slipped in educational rankings.
I remember the axiom "knowledge is power" being said to me time and again.
Shame the X,Y,Z generations seem to have lost the thirst for learning.
m&c

[GoldenTruman]

As the old saying goes, "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." Whether it be education, athletics, or Selection, 9 times out of 10 the better prepared will be standing with their hands raised when all is said and done. Perhaps the Korean way is archaic, but at least they hold their children to a higher standard forcing the children to hold themselves to this standard. As Solar stated with his experienced high class dropout rate, one sign of adversity and the better of our society will submit. And submit with a smile. No shame. No remorse. I hate this victim mentality we seem to carry today. That everything should be handed to us on a silver platter. Maybe we should take a page from Korea and force every male to serve in the military. Force some LDRSHIP down their throat.

[Richard]

I have yet to find the American educational system lacking for those with the intelligence, the talent, the monetary resources, and the personal desire to use it to their benefit.

I would hold off sounding its death knell if I were y'all and might ask why so many of the Korean "movers and shakers" within their society send their children to American schools to be educated.

Richard. :munchin

[Sigaba]

@GoldenTruman--

How does Solar's experience in one class support such a broad generalization about "the better of our society"?

How will resorting to UMT help to restore leadership in America, or will it just allow some to have a heightened sense of control? (If not also a sense of payback.)

[bandycpa]

I have yet to find the American educational system lacking for those with the intelligence, the talent, the monetary resources, and the personal desire to use it to their benefit.

I would hold off sounding its death knell if I were y'all and might ask why so many of the Korean "movers and shakers" within their society send their children to American schools to be educated.

Richard. :munchin

I think you hit it on the head, Richard. To me, the system isn't so much the problem as the attitudes of the students who take part in it. Again, a broadbrush assertion is unfair, as there are certainly students who excel and give their very best...and they reside all over the world (not just Korea, Japan, or the US). There are also those who will never approach their educational opportunities with any sense of urgency, any motivation, or any degree of forethought. They reside all over the world too.

As always, excellence is an individual choice.

[GoldenTruman]

Sigaba, I certainly agree that this is a broad generalization. Be it shying away from a difficult class, being the yes man at the weekly production meeting because you do not want to break the status quo, not sharing your opinion at the Sunday BBQ for fear of negative feedback, it all falls in the same category to me. When the going gets tough, we seem to get away from the tough as fast as possible. I look around and see mere shells of people going through the motions rather than a society reverent on growth and sustainment.

I can see how one-sided my opinion comes across, but I just get so frustrated at the mass of people who squander away the great gift of natural United States citizenry. Doing nothing more to earn freedom than be born. All the while taking every possible chance to exploit this freedom without understanding it. You can only take out so many cookies in the jar before it is empty and needs to be re-filled. If no one is doing the re-filling then what? I am a devout Christian, but it amazes me the number of people who are in church every Sunday to “secure their spot in Heaven” yet never look around to secure their spot on Earth.

Obviously, this slave driver mentality Korea seems to take with their education is not the right course of action for our country but at least they are trying to develop a national standard. My current state cannot decide if they want education decision making to be state-wide or district-wide. I couldn’t imagine the budget and logistics for a nation-wide standard.

Take the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The system of incentives and penalties to this act created an atmosphere of statistics manipulation and flat out cheating among teachers and schools to meet the standards. Thus drastically minimizing its’ effectiveness.

As Richard stated, the American educational system is tremendous for the affluent with marginal intelligence. Throw in the poverty stricken with no positive role model and the recipe for disaster is proof in the pudding. I do concur with Richard that personal desire plays an integral part in the equation. But as I stated in the beginning of this post, personal desire means nothing if you aren’t willing to use it.

[BKKMAN]

Sigaba, I certainly agree that this is a broad generalization. Be it shying away from a difficult class, being the yes man at the weekly production meeting because you do not want to break the status quo, not sharing your opinion at the Sunday BBQ for fear of negative feedback, it all falls in the same category to me. When the going gets tough, we seem to get away from the tough as fast as possible. I look around and see mere shells of people going through the motions rather than a society reverent on growth and sustainment. I can see how one-sided my opinion comes across, but I just get so frustrated at the mass of people who squander away the great gift of natural United States citizenry. Doing nothing more to earn freedom than be born. All the while taking every possible chance to exploit this freedom without understanding it. You can only take out so many cookies in the jar before it is empty and needs to be re-filled. If no one is doing the re-filling then what? I am a devout Christian, but it amazes me the number of people who are in church every Sunday to “secure their spot in Heaven” yet never look around to secure their spot on Earth. Obviously this slave driver mentality Korea seems to take with their education is not the right course of action for our country, but at least they are trying to develop a national standard. My current state cannot decide if they want education decision making to be state-wide or district-wide. I couldn’t imagine the budget and logistics for a nation-wide standard. Take the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The system of incentives and penalties to this act created an atmosphere of statistics manipulation and flat out cheating among teachers and schools to meet the standards. Thus drastically minimizing its’ effectiveness. As Richard stated, the American educational system is tremendous for the affluent with marginal intelligence. Throw in the poverty stricken with no positive role model and the recipe for disaster is proof in the pudding. I do concur with Richard that personal desire plays an integral part in the equation. But as I stated in the beginning of this post, personal desire means nothing if you aren’t willing to use it.

Just a note for the future, but I find it nearly impossible to read lengthy paragraphs that the writer didn't have the common courtesy of breaking up into readable chunks or separating into coherent thoughts...

[GoldenTruman]

BKKMAN, Noted and edited. My apologies.

[Sigaba]

Sigaba, I certainly agree that this is a broad generalization. Be it shying away from a difficult class, being the yes man at the weekly production meeting because you do not want to break the status quo, not sharing your opinion at the Sunday BBQ for fear of negative feedback, it all falls in the same category to me. When the going gets tough, we seem to get away from the tough as fast as possible. I look around and see mere shells of people going through the motions rather than a society reverent on growth and sustainment.

I can see how one-sided my opinion comes across, but I just get so frustrated at the mass of people who squander away the great gift of natural United States citizenry. Doing nothing more to earn freedom than be born. All the while taking every possible chance to exploit this freedom without understanding it. You can only take out so many cookies in the jar before it is empty and needs to be re-filled. If no one is doing the re-filling then what? I am a devout Christian, but it amazes me the number of people who are in church every Sunday to “secure their spot in Heaven” yet never look around to secure their spot on Earth.

Obviously, this slave driver mentality Korea seems to take with their education is not the right course of action for our country but at least they are trying to develop a national standard. My current state cannot decide if they want education decision making to be state-wide or district-wide. I couldn’t imagine the budget and logistics for a nation-wide standard.

Take the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The system of incentives and penalties to this act created an atmosphere of statistics manipulation and flat out cheating among teachers and schools to meet the standards. Thus drastically minimizing its’ effectiveness.

As Richard stated, the American educational system is tremendous for the affluent with marginal intelligence. Throw in the poverty stricken with no positive role model and the recipe for disaster is proof in the pudding. I do concur with Richard that personal desire plays an integral part in the equation. But as I stated in the beginning of this post, personal desire means nothing if you aren’t willing to use it.GT--

Thanks for your reply!:) Here's a suggestion that is worth every cent you're about to pay for it. And even a little less.

Be patient with yourself and then with others.:cool: As you get older, you may experience a moment or two in which you realize that what you thought you had figured out in the days of your youth is, in retrospect, much more complicated than you thought at the time. (If you're lucky, some of your mentors will also be your friends and you'll be able to enjoy the conversation in which you say "Oh, so that's why you were smiling when I said that!" Or so I've heard.:o)

(If you want to see this dynamic in action on the other side of the political spectrum, check out a documentary titled Berkeley in the Sixties [1990].)

[GoldenTruman]

Sigaba, Thank you for your reply. I will check out that documentary you mentioned. I admit that sometimes I do feel like a bull in a China Shop with this kind of stuff. I will work on my patience and your patience with me is noticed and appreciated.

[1stindoor]

BKKMAN, Noted and edited. My apologies.

GT...regarding your sig line...the author is quite well known, he is John Stuart Mill. That quote has been in my head for almost 30 years now, and it used to be my sig line.

[GoldenTruman]

GT...regarding your sig line...the author is quite well known, he is John Stuart Mill. That quote has been in my head for almost 30 years now, and it used to be my sig line.

1stindoor, Edited. The book I found it in noted the author as unknown. My Google search came up with the same findings. Perhaps it was the time frame of the quote, but you would think a gem like that would have floated onto the interwebs at some point. Thank you for that information.

[1stindoor]

Not that I'm trying to hijack the thread, but it does sort of fit into the whole "thirst for knowledge" aspect. Here's the quote for GT

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/27169.html

[GoldenTruman]

1stindoor, Thank you for the link. I studied up a bit on John Stuart Mill last night after you informed me he was the author. As well as knocked out a few extra push ups for my oversight. Thanks again for the information.