View Full Version : Netanyahu Draws Red LIne - Literally
XngZeRubicon
09-27-2012, 17:00
If you haven't had a chance to see replays of Netanyahu's speech at the UN today, I suggest trying to find it on the internet in the coming days. I've checked the internet for a copy, and it's not on there yet, or I would paste it here. I did get to see it, and I thought it was a great speech.
Netanyahu couldn't have been more crystal clear at the UN today. He literally drew a red line. LOL, yes, he literally showed a graphic of a bomb and with a red marker, drew a red line on the picture of where he believed the point of no return was.
He made a number of really powerful points throughout the speech. My favorite was in response to those who believe a nuclear Iran can be contained the way nukes were contained during the Cold War. He said that was akin to saying a nuclear armed Al Qaeda would usher in a period of peace.
Here's a link of some of the highlights of his speech (text).
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hPdcjg7NgKCciF5ssYaedSNP2p5A?docId=CNG.5c22d 59ada105a6ebcd3d6e0261b35fd.661
The Reaper
09-27-2012, 17:08
It was an excellent speech.
One I wish had originated from our own leadership.
TR
XngZeRubicon
09-27-2012, 17:19
It was an excellent speech.
One I wish had originated from our own leadership.
TR
Our leadership was too busy at the UN apologizing and going back to using the movie as an excuse for the terror attack in Libya.
Which was breathtaking - given that now everyone in the Administration has admitted it was a terrorist attack, to include the POTUS himself. I couldn't believe he actually tried to suggest otherwise at the UN. Totally baffling. I mean he's on record now that it was a terror attack. There's only one thing that explains it. He must be thinking to himself, "boy this electorate is even more gullible than I thought and I won't be caught speaking out of two sides of my mouth."
Red Flag 1
09-27-2012, 17:35
It was an excellent speech.
One I wish had originated from our own leadership.
TR
Concur.
It was important for the world to hear his words. Every world leader should be paying attention, including the current White House occupant. Make no mistake, that was intended for obama's ears as much as anyone else.
RF 1
XngZeRubicon
09-27-2012, 17:58
Concur.
It was important for the world to hear his words. Every world leader should be paying attention, including the current White House occupant. Make no mistake, that was intended for obama's ears as much as anyone else.
RF 1
This must've been what it was like to live in the late 1930s. You've got Churchill warning the world of the scurge that's about to hit the world. And you've got Neville Chamberlain reading the same tea leaves as "peace in our time."
Full text...
By National Journal Staff
Updated: September 27, 2012 | 5:29 p.m.
September 27, 2012 | 4:50 p.m.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/full-text-benjamin-netanyahu-s-speech-at-the-united-nations-general-assembly-20120927
Red Flag 1
09-27-2012, 19:27
This must've been what it was like to live in the late 1930s. You've got Churchill warning the world of the scurge that's about to hit the world. And you've got Neville Chamberlain reading the same tea leaves as "peace in our time."
Good analogy. Difference here is that we supported the British. Netanyahu probably feels very alone just now.
RF 1
Thanks Tonyz !!
RF 1
j
This must've been what it was like to live in the late 1930s. You've got Churchill warning the world of the scurge that's about to hit the world. And you've got Neville Chamberlain reading the same tea leaves as "peace in our time."
My $.02 that's hardly fair to Neville Chamberlain, the following is his most staunch political adversary Churchill's obituary tribute. When America endures past the Obama years I doubt history's verdict will be so kind...
"It fell to Neville Chamberlain in one of the supreme crises of the world to be contradicted by events, to be disappointed in his hopes, and to be deceived and cheated by a wicked man. But what were these hopes in which he was disappointed? What were these wishes in which he was frustrated? What was that faith that was abused? They were surely among the most noble and benevolent instincts of the human heart – the love of peace, the toil for peace, the strife for peace, the pursuit of peace, even at great peril and certainly to the utter disdain of popularity or clamour. Whatever else history may or may not say about these terrible, tremendous years, we can be sure that Neville Chamberlain acted with perfect sincerity according to his lights and strove to the utmost of his capacity and authority, which were powerful, to save the world from the awful, devastating struggle in which we are now engaged. This alone will stand him in good stead as far as what is called the verdict of history is concerned."
It was an excellent speech.
One I wish had originated from our own leadership.
TR
I fully CONCER!!
This must've been what it was like to live in the late 1930s. You've got Churchill warning the world of the scurge that's about to hit the world. And you've got Neville Chamberlain reading the same tea leaves as "peace in our time."
I'm with what RF1 was saying. The current Admin and POTHUS is more into covering up what happen in Lybia and looking for a next four years. Sad fact!!
Badger52
09-28-2012, 06:12
My $.02 that's hardly fair to Neville Chamberlain, the following is his most staunch political adversary Churchill's obituary tribute. When America endures past the Obama years I doubt history's verdict will be so kind...
"It fell to Neville Chamberlain in one of the supreme crises of the world to be contradicted by events, to be disappointed in his hopes, and to be deceived and cheated by a wicked man. But what were these hopes in which he was disappointed? What were these wishes in which he was frustrated? What was that faith that was abused? They were surely among the most noble and benevolent instincts of the human heart – the love of peace, the toil for peace, the strife for peace, the pursuit of peace, even at great peril and certainly to the utter disdain of popularity or clamour. Whatever else history may or may not say about these terrible, tremendous years, we can be sure that Neville Chamberlain acted with perfect sincerity according to his lights and strove to the utmost of his capacity and authority, which were powerful, to save the world from the awful, devastating struggle in which we are now engaged. This alone will stand him in good stead as far as what is called the verdict of history is concerned."I disagree. Those were kind words by Churchill. Some will, and already are, writing (and re-writing) kind words about the current POTUS.
Apples vs. oranges. One is about a vision. I wish we could leave our doors unlocked and kids could play safely in the neighborhoods till all hours and learn civics in school. That's the theory. Some people also recognize that occasionally you have to simply shoot the burglar to the ground.
XngZeRubicon
09-28-2012, 12:23
Good analogy. Difference here is that we supported the British. Netanyahu probably feels very alone just now.
j
Good point. And a sad one. I know we look at Netanyahu as this stubborn, tough-as-an-ox, unshakeable, steadfast leader, but I can't even imagine the true pressure he must feel on his shoulders.
My $.02 that's hardly fair to Neville Chamberlain, the following is his most staunch political adversary Churchill's obituary tribute. When America endures past the Obama years I doubt history's verdict will be so kind.......
Touche. And those were kind words. But in prose fitting a leader and visionary such as Churchill, his words only boiled down to "Chamberlain did the best he could."
The part I think is most analogous to those pre-WWII times and now is that the ovewhleming number of people agreed with Chamberlain and considered Churhill to be an alarmist. The reasons? Naivete, asleep at the wheel, uninformed, pacifists, and living in a bubble.
Like now.
According to O we need to give economic sanctions time to work regarding the Iran situation. As if economic sanctions have ever worked in the past. Israel is all alone at this time it's not a proud moment for us. Someday soon Iran will get nuclear weapons, they will use them and all the hand wringers around the world are gonna want to know why no one did anything to stop them. As it stands right now with our current leadership we are of no help. We need our own version of Arab Spring, let's call it America's Fall we will have it the first week of November.
let's call it America's Fall
Very poor wording no matter who gets elected.
As if economic sanctions have ever worked in the past.
It sure seems that this Administrations sanctions are working on us here at home!
Red Flag 1
09-28-2012, 20:46
According to O we need to give economic sanctions time to work regarding the Iran situation. As if economic sanctions have ever worked in the past. Israel is all alone at this time it's not a proud moment for us. Someday soon Iran will get nuclear weapons, they will use them and all the hand wringers around the world are gonna want to know why no one did anything to stop them. As it stands right now with our current leadership we are of no help. We need our own version of Arab Spring, let's call it America's Fall we will have it the first week of November.
The whole point of Netanyahu's address is: 1. To re-state the obvious plan of Iran to produce and use a nuclear weapon, 2. Move the world to a position to understand Iran's threat to Israel, and lastly 3. Re-afirm that Israel is not likely to stand by and simply watch this all happen. Isreal is going to act, alone if necessary; to stop Iran from producing and using a nuclear weapon.
I do hope Iran will not become a nuclear power, anytime soon.
RF 1
The part I think is most analogous to those pre-WWII times and now is that the [overwhleming] number of people agreed with Chamberlain and considered [Churchill] to be an alarmist. The reasons? Naivete, asleep at the wheel, uninformed, pacifists, and living in a bubble.
Like now.
@XngZeRubicon Here's a suggestion from the cheap seats. Before you make additional historical analogies of this nature, I urge you to do any/all of the following.
Read up on the First World War and its impact upon Britain's political culture.
Re-familiarize yourself with the social, cultural, diplomatic, and political history of Europe during the interwar period.
Brush up on the causes of the Second World War--including the scholarly reappraisal of the West's policies towards Hitler that has taken place over the past thirty or so years (including Britain's appeasement*).
Take at least a cursory glance at the recent scholarship on Churchill.
_____________________________________________
* On this specific point, see Wesley R. Wark, "Appeasement Revisited," International History Review, 17:3 (August, 1995): 545-562.
XngZeRubicon
10-01-2012, 22:07
@XngZeRubicon Here's a suggestion from the cheap seats. Before you make additional historical analogies of this nature, I urge you to do any/all of the following.
Read up on the First World War and its impact upon Britain's political culture.
Re-familiarize yourself with the social, cultural, diplomatic, and political history of Europe during the interwar period.
Brush up on the causes of the Second World War--including the scholarly reappraisal of the West's policies towards Hitler that has taken place over the past thirty or so years (including Britain's appeasement*).
Take at least a cursory glance at the recent scholarship on Churchill.
_____________________________________________
* On this specific point, see Wesley R. Wark, "Appeasement Revisited," International History Review, 17:3 (August, 1995): 545-562.
Sigaba, I always like recommendations for new reading, but what makes you think I haven't done extensive reading already about these historical periods?;)
Perhaps you can give me a synopsis of what the recent scholarship asserts about Churchill and appeasement during that time that is now different?
Does it suggest there wasn't really appeasement afterall?
I have to tell you that as a bookish person myself, I've been disappointed with what constantly appears to me as the rewriting of a great deal of history in the past 10-20 years. I'm not necessarily swayed by "reassessments" of history. But it does depend. What exactly were you disagreeing with about my post?:)
I have to tell you that as a bookish person myself, I've been disappointed with what constantly appears to me as the rewriting of a great deal of history in the past 10-20 years.Would you mind if I quote you when I write my letter of resignation from SHAFR? I want to make sure that professional academic historians understand that they have it all wrong. As you so aptly suggest, there's no real need to look at the archival materials that have become available since the Cold War ended on both sides of the Iron Curtain because we already know everything we need to know about everything that happened during the twentieth century.
What exactly were you disagreeing with about my post?:)In brief, the very premise that you've done extensive reading already about these historical periods[.]
FWIW, the attached article is from 1977. It discusses an important aspect of the British experience during the First World War that had been an issue of interest while the war itself was still underway. That is, it falls outside of your window of skepticism. But then, what does Jay Winter (http://www.yale.edu/history/faculty/winter.html) know.
As for your request for a synopsis, I am going to ask you to be patient. You see, there's a bit of a crisis over at the Institute of Ptolemaic Studies, City of Industry Chapter. There's a brewing controversy that requires my immediate attention as a honorary member of that sacred order. Apparently, some misguided souls have floated the outlandish theory that the Earth is not the center of the universe. Can you believe it? Clearly, this ignorant notion is the result of leftist Hollywood propagating yet more lies through television shows like The Big Bang Theory.*
But no worries. Elric of Melniboné has promised to loan me a grimoire that details human sacrifices to the Elder Gods if I provide him with a couple of cases of SPF 500 tanning oil. Well, I'll admit that I'm a little worried. You see, the guy is dating his cousin -- I guess Melniboné must be near Chatsworth. And he often mutters about some guy named Arioch. Go figure.
While I get that issue sorted out, perhaps you'll make due with a brief discussion of the impact of Churchill on the historiography of the Second World War that took place on this BB in 2009 <<LINK (http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=290771&postcount=26)>>.
#notbitter
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^ In case there's any confusion <<LINK> (http://www.cal-print.com/InkColorChart.htm)>.
* For the life of me, I can't believe that Penny is thinking about breaking up with Leonard! I mean, damn. She's as right for him as Rachael and Ross. And like, OMG we can only be glad that Rachael didn't get on that plane to Paris. The aircraft most definitely would have trouble as its flightpath may have led to a close call with Helios's chariot as it carried the sun across the heavens.
XngZeRubicon
10-10-2012, 21:34
Would you mind if I quote you when I write my letter of resignation from SHAFR? I want to make sure that professional academic historians understand that they have it all wrong. As you so aptly suggest, there's no real need to look at the archival materials that have become available since the Cold War ended on both sides of the Iron Curtain because we already know everything we need to know about everything that happened during the twentieth century.
In brief, the very premise that you've
FWIW, the attached article is from 1977. It discusses an important aspect of the British experience during the First World War that had been an issue of interest while the war itself was still underway. That is, it falls outside of your window of skepticism. But then, what does Jay Winter (http://www.yale.edu/history/faculty/winter.html) know.
As for your request for a synopsis, I am going to ask you to be patient. You see, there's a bit of a crisis over at the Institute of Ptolemaic Studies, City of Industry Chapter. There's a brewing controversy that requires my immediate attention as a honorary member of that sacred order. Apparently, some misguided souls have floated the outlandish theory that the Earth is not the center of the universe. Can you believe it? Clearly, this ignorant notion is the result of leftist Hollywood propagating yet more lies through television shows like The Big Bang Theory.*
But no worries. Elric of Melniboné has promised to loan me a grimoire that details human sacrifices to the Elder Gods if I provide him with a couple of cases of SPF 500 tanning oil. Well, I'll admit that I'm a little worried. You see, the guy is dating his cousin -- I guess Melniboné must be near Chatsworth. And he often mutters about some guy named Arioch. Go figure.
While I get that issue sorted out, perhaps you'll make due with a brief discussion of the impact of Churchill on the historiography of the Second World War that took place on this BB in 2009 <<LINK (http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=290771&postcount=26)>>.
#notbitter
_______________________________________________
^ In case there's any confusion <<LINK> (http://www.cal-print.com/InkColorChart.htm)>.
* For the life of me, I can't believe that Penny is thinking about breaking up with Leonard! I mean, damn. She's as right for him as Rachael and Ross. And like, OMG we can only be glad that Rachael didn't get on that plane to Paris. The aircraft most definitely would have trouble as its flightpath may have led to a close call with Helios's chariot as it carried the sun across the heavens.
Well, Sigaba, being the nerd that I am, I enjoyed reading the article. Lot of good stuff there. But I don't see how that micro-data has anything to do with the very macro-level historical truths about WWII that I asserted. They include the fact that 1) America and our allies won the war 2) Churhill had warned about Hitler's adventurism but was dismissed as alarmist by many, and 3) that Chamberlain engaged in appeasement with Hitler despite Churhill's warnings.
So unless and until I see proof from you that 1 through 3 are false, I'll just stick with my old school beliefs that appeasement did not serve to deter Hitler but only encourage him.