View Full Version : Egyptian protesters scale US Embassy wall in Cairo
Here we go again. Wonder what the Government there will do? Is this a prelude to what is to come? Iran hostage crisis 2?
Egyptian protesters scale US Embassy wall in Cairo
http://news.yahoo.com/egyptian-protesters-scale-us-embassy-wall-cairo-174400319.html
CAIRO (AP) — Egyptian protesters, largely ultra conservative Islamists, have climbed the walls of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, made their way into the courtyard and brought down the flag. They then replaced it with a black flag with an Islamic inscription to protest a film deemed offensive to Islam's Prophet Muhammad.
Hundreds protested outside the embassy Tuesday against the film. Egyptian media say the movie was recently produced in the United States. The film, clips of which are available on the social website YouTube, show the prophet having sex and question his role as the messenger of God's words.
The dozens of protesters who climbed the embassy wall tried to tear the American flag apart after failing to burn it. Embassy officials said there was no staff inside at the time.
http://news.yahoo.com/egyptians-angry-film-scale-u-embassy-walls-163506344.html
Egyptians angry at film scale U.S. embassy walls
CAIRO (Reuters) - Egyptian protesters scaled the walls of the U.S. embassy in Cairo on Tuesday and pulled down the American flag during a protest over what they said was a film being produced in the United States that insulted Prophet Mohammad, witnesses said.
In place of the U.S. flag, the protesters tried to raise a black flag with the words "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger", a Reuters reporter said.
Once the U.S. flag was hauled down, protesters tore it up, with some showing off small pieces to television cameras. Then others burned remains.
"This movie must be banned immediately and an apology should be made ... This is a disgrace," said 19-year-old, Ismail Mahmoud, a member of the so-called "ultras" soccer supporters who played a big role in the uprising that brought down Hosni Mubarak last year.
Many Muslims consider any depiction of the Prophet to be offensive.
Mahmoud called on President Mohamed Mursi, Egypt's first civilian president and an Islamist, to take action. Many others were supporters of Islamist groups.
About 20 people stood on top of the embassy wall in central Cairo, where about 2,000 protesters had gathered.
"There is no god but Allah, Mohammad is Allah's messenger. We will sacrifice ourselves for you, Allah's messenger," they chanted, with many waving religious flags.
A U.S. embassy official had no immediate comment on the protesters' actions but the embassy had put out a statement earlier on Tuesday condemning those who hurt the religious feelings of Muslims or followers of any other religions.
"We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others," the U.S. embassy said in its statement.
One slogan scrawled on the walls of the embassy, a fortress-like structure that is near Tahrir Square where Egyptians revolted against Mubarak, said: "If your freedom of speech has no limits, may you accept our freedom of action."
An Egyptian state website carried a statement by Egypt's Coptic Orthodox church condemning what it said were moves by some Copts living abroad "to finance the production of a film insulting Prophet Mohammad".
About a 10th of Egypt's 83 million people are Christians.
It was not immediately clear which film angered protesters.
However, according to the website www.standupamerianow.org, the Christian Pastor Terry Jones, who angered Muslims by burning a copy of the Koran, was due to take part in an event on Tuesday called "International Judge Mohammad Day" in Florida in which it would symbolically put the Prophet on trial and play it out live over the Internet.
"Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy," the U.S. embassy statement said, adding that it condemned the efforts by "misguided individuals" to hurt the feelings of Muslims.
In another incident prompted by similar sentiments last month, a lone man attacked the German embassy with homemade nail bombs and a hammer with which he cracked glass at the entrance, following a report about a protest in Germany where demonstrators bore caricatures of the Prophet outside a mosque.
No one was injured and there was no serious damage in that incident.
(Reporting by Tamim Elyan and Reuters correspondents; Writing by Edmund Blair; Editing by Alison Williams)
Once again it's our fault.
Just being Americans makes it our fault.
How much are we fixen' to write off in loans to Egypt? You'd think for that kinda' bucks the government could keep folks from climbing the Embassy walls.
Tweeder11
09-11-2012, 14:29
protest over what they said was a film being produced in the United States that insulted Prophet Mohammad, witnesses said.
In place of the U.S. flag, the protesters tried to raise a black flag with the words "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger", a Reuters reporter said.
So they probably weren't fans of Jesus Christ Superstar? :munchin
In my humble opinion as long as there is religion, there will be war. I'm no athiest, but I've seen a fist fight over a heated debate between a Catholic and a Christian over the GOP's Pro-Life stance. Not to mention what happened 11 years ago today!
Sorry for the rant, but today of all days.... I just hope no appologies will be made by our current administation over this.
Humbly,
Tweeder
"U.S. Embassy 'Condemns the Continuing Efforts by Misguided Individuals to Hurt the Religious Feelings of Muslims'"
Are you freaking kidding me??? Really??? What kind of BS politcally incorrect horse shit is this respone...to OUR FLAG BEING RIPPED DOWN AND REPLACED BY THE ISLAMIC FLAG???
Our Bravest have fought and continue to die to protect us Americans, and this is the best they can come up with?:mad:
Holly
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/us-embassy-condemns-continuing-efforts-misguided-individuals-hurt-religious-feelings-muslims_652183.html
Badger52
09-11-2012, 15:52
"U.S. Embassy 'Condemns the Continuing Efforts by Misguided Individuals to Hurt the Religious Feelings of Muslims'"
Are you freaking kidding me??? Really??? What kind of BS politcally incorrect horse shit is this respone...to OUR FLAG BEING RIPPED DOWN AND REPLACED BY THE ISLAMIC FLAG???Uh, an effort to mitigate workplace violence?
I'd say it's deja vu but I've got a laptop; last time I was lookin' at tape coming out of a Kleinschmidt.
:rolleyes:
Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692
"Militiamen in Libya have stormed the US consulate in Benghazi, the country's second largest city.
Reports say they were protesting against a US-made film that is allegedly insulting to the Prophet Muhammad, and set fire to the building.
The building is said to have burnt down. It is thought nobody was in the consulate at the time. ............................"
Busy little beavers.
Lets get the MEU back in range. Might need some Embassy help soon.......
The Reaper
09-11-2012, 17:01
Wow, what happened to our peace loving Muslims and their Arab Spring that was supposed to usher in a bunch of progressive democracies?
TR
Old Dog New Trick
09-11-2012, 17:32
Wow, what happened to our peace loving Muslims and their Arab Spring that was supposed to usher in a bunch of progressive democracies?
TR
:munchin
Dozer523
09-11-2012, 17:54
Are you freaking kidding me??? Really??? What kind of BS politcally incorrect horse shit is this respone...to OUR FLAG BEING RIPPED DOWN AND REPLACED BY THE ISLAMIC FLAG???
Our Bavest have fought and continue to die to protect us Americans, and this is the best they can come up with?:mad: Holly i suspect the USMC Guard force recommended machine-guns but you know ...
The Cairo Embassy is a pretty interesting place. It's almost two compounds in one. The north part (which is really close to the square that featured so much in the Arab Spring) is like a castle. It's the modern side. It's pretty high, no windows, access is via a tunnel. If they scaled that Hillary and Norgay would be impressed. The south side is Nineteenth Century. Ten foot ordamental iron fence, shrubs. Then a courtyard and this beautiful marble building. Most of the business conducted there is with and for the Egyptians.
Yeah, it is sovereign US territory and it is our Flag (whoever is chanting "USA USA USA" stop right now!) this was an attack by a mob and there is no proof it was sponsored by the Egyptian government. Were not planning on leaving so we have to live with our response. Err on the side caution? Remember no US casualties.
Remember the scene in The Green Berets where the Duke takes back the A Camp and he cut down the VC flag with such total contempt? I hope we did that.
Remember the movie with Denzel Washington and we send a rescue mission and our guys take fire and everyone sort of has a "mad-minute" (help me out what was the name of that movie?). Anyway, my point is that's sort of the choice you have.
i suspect the USMC Guard force recommended machine-guns but you know ...
The Cairo Embassy is a pretty interesting place. It's almost two compounds in one. The north part (which is really close to the square that featured so much in the Arab Spring) is like a castle. It's the modern side. It's pretty high, no windows, access is via a tunnel. If they scaled that Hillary and Norgay would be impressed. The south side is Nineteenth Century. Ten foot ordamental iron fence, shrubs. Then a courtyard and this beautiful marble building. Most of the business conducted there is with and for the Egyptians.
Yeah, it is sovereign US territory and it is our Flag (whoever is chanting "USA USA USA" stop right now!) this was an attack by a mob and there is no proof it was sponsored by the Egyptian government. Were not planning on leaving so we have to live with our response. Err on the side caution? Remember no US casualties.
Remember the scene in The Green Berets where the Duke takes back the A Camp and he cut down the VC flag with such total contempt? I hope we did What about ifthat.
Remember the movie with Denzel Washington and we send a rescue mission and our guys take fire and everyone sort of has a "mad-minute" (help me out what was the name of that movie?). Anyway, my point is that's sort of the choice you have.
"Anyway, my point is that's sort of the choice you have"
That is just so sad to me...as just a simple American. :(
Accept defeat then???
Holly
aegisnavy
09-11-2012, 18:25
Wow, what happened to our peace loving Muslims and their Arab Spring that was supposed to usher in a bunch of progressive democracies?
Are the wolves going to bother with getting their sheep disguises back on?
Badger52
09-11-2012, 18:39
Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692
"Militiamen in Libya have stormed the US consulate in Benghazi, the country's second largest city.
Reports say they were protesting against a US-made film that is allegedly insulting to the Prophet Muhammad, and set fire to the building.
The building is said to have burnt down. It is thought nobody was in the consulate at the time. ............................"
Busy little beavers.Update:
A US official has been killed and others wounded after militiamen stormed the US consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi, security officials say.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692
I'm for clearing fields of fire around the flagpole and wasting anyone who tries to lower it. I'm over due for a vacation, anyone else want to tag along?
Old Dog New Trick
09-11-2012, 19:48
I'm for clearing fields of fire around the flagpole and wasting anyone who tries to lower it. I'm over due for a vacation, anyone else want to tag along?
Nope, I feel we've done our best in those places and can close shop for now. Anyone needing a VISA or other diplomatic affairs can use the Internet.
i suspect the USMC Guard force recommended machine-guns but you know ...
The Cairo Embassy is a pretty interesting place. It's almost two compounds in one. The north part (which is really close to the square that featured so much in the Arab Spring) is like a castle. It's the modern side. It's pretty high, no windows, access is via a tunnel. If they scaled that Hillary and Norgay would be impressed. The south side is Nineteenth Century. Ten foot ordamental iron fence, shrubs. Then a courtyard and this beautiful marble building. Most of the business conducted there is with and for the Egyptians.
Yeah, it is sovereign US territory and it is our Flag (whoever is chanting "USA USA USA" stop right now!) this was an attack by a mob and there is no proof it was sponsored by the Egyptian government. Were not planning on leaving so we have to live with our response. Err on the side caution? Remember no US casualties.
Remember the scene in The Green Berets where the Duke takes back the A Camp and he cut down the VC flag with such total contempt? I hope we did that.
Remember the movie with Denzel Washington and we send a rescue mission and our guys take fire and everyone sort of has a "mad-minute" (help me out what was the name of that movie?). Anyway, my point is that's sort of the choice you have.
Dozer
If you think that the Muslim brotherhood was not involved we need to come over and pull our head out of the sand. If they are involved then he Gov was involved. Right now they are the same.
Nope, I feel we've done our best in those places and can close shop for now. Anyone needing a VISA or other diplomatic affairs can use the Internet.
I share your sentiments, these people need us a lot worse than we need them.
TacOfficer
09-11-2012, 21:24
The United States cannot afford to turn a blind eye to these "events" occurring at our embassies. It sends the message that it's acceptable, "the children were just playing, they didn't really mean to offend you by invading your sovereign ground and tearing your flag to shreds". Also, it invites further, if not escalated attacks. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting we mow the embassy lawn with the .50 cal. I do suggest that diplomatic repercussions, such as withholding funds, exist for such behavior. It's is the responsibility of the host country to provide security for foreign diplomatic missions. The current Egyptian regime allowed this to happen. They should be held publicly and financially accountable for the actions of their citizens.
As for the Libyan US consulate death of an official, I believe a death sentence is in order for those responsible. Feel free to choose your method, local (hanging) or imported (Hellfire missile).
Team Sergeant
09-11-2012, 22:40
The United States cannot afford to turn a blind eye to these "events" occurring at our embassies. It sends the message that it's acceptable, "the children were just playing, they didn't really mean to offend you by invading your sovereign ground and tearing your flag to shreds". Also, it invites further, if not escalated attacks. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting we mow the embassy lawn with the .50 cal. I do suggest that diplomatic repercussions, such as withholding funds, exist for such behavior. It's is the responsibility of the host country to provide security for foreign diplomatic missions. The current Egyptian regime allowed this to happen. They should be held publicly and financially accountable for the actions of their citizens.
As for the Libyan US consulate death of an official, I believe a death sentence is in order for those responsible. Feel free to choose your method, local (hanging) or imported (Hellfire missile).
Funny I thought the United States sent that message about 30 years ago when jimmy carter allowed the iranians to hold our embassy for 444 days.......... shite that was peaceful muslims also!
tom kelly
09-11-2012, 22:51
The present U S Administration will DO NOTHING but offer lip service about the incidents in the Middle East. TK
Dozer523
09-11-2012, 23:08
Dozer
If you think that the Muslim brotherhood was not involved we need to come over and pull our head out of the sand. If they are involved then he Gov was involved. Right now they are the same. Muslim Brotherhood involved? Probably -- almost assuredly -- considering right now the MB is so ascendant that they must see themselvese moving into the Exploitation Phase. But, (So) on the world (Arab) stage we have to be able to prove it before we act. If our actions result in the martyrdom of legitimate protestors who didn't harm anything but Western territorial/colonial feeling (Can you hear that with a strident Arabic accent?) How do we then deflect charges we supported and want the return of Mubarak? There is a reason the language of choice for diplomace used to be French -- they invented perfume:)
The present U S Administration will DO NOTHING but offer lip service about the incidents in the Middle East. TK
The Obama administration is disavowing a statement from its own Cairo embassy that seemed to apologize for anti-Muslim activity in the United States.
"The statement by Embassy Cairo was not cleared by Washington and does not reflect the views of the United States government,"
an administration official told POLITICO.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/09/white-house-disavows-cairo-apology-135247.html
Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692
"Militiamen in Libya have stormed the US consulate in Benghazi, the country's second largest city.
Reports say they were protesting against a US-made film that is allegedly insulting to the Prophet Muhammad, and set fire to the building.
The building is said to have burnt down. It is thought nobody was in the consulate at the time. ............................"
Busy little beavers.
The U.S. ambassador to Libya and three American members of his staff were killed in an attack on the U.S. consulate in the eastern city of Benghazi by protesters angry over a film that ridiculed Islam's Prophet Muhammad, Libyan officials said Wednesday.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012/09/12/libyan-officials-us-ambassador-killed-in-attack/57752828/1
TR hit on the head.. the Arab Spring apprised as lead to more freedoms and this is the results.
US Embassy in Algiers warns of protests
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ALGERIA_US_EMBASSY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-09-12-07-23-29
"ALGIERS, Algeria (AP) -- The U.S. Embassy in Algiers is warning Americans in the country to avoid non-essential travel amid calls for protests after an attack on a U.S. consulate in Libya.
The embassy said in an emergency message to U.S. citizens that unspecified groups are using online social networks to organize demonstrations in front of the embassy Wednesday "to protest a range of issues".........................."
Don't sound too "spontaneous" to me......
Just wait till Friday.
The present U S Administration will DO NOTHING but offer lip service about the incidents in the Middle East. TK
Apparently not even that, as it was a written statement from the White House that was released...:munchin
Apparently not even that, as it was a written statement from the White House that was released...:munchin
Agree Sir.
Is this not an Act of War?
Where in the statement is the condemnation for this TERRORIST act upon America? Must have missed that part...:rolleyes:
Holly
"Anyway, my point is that's sort of the choice you have"
That is just so sad to me...as just a simple American. :(
Accept defeat then???
Holly
Where you got that from Dozer's post is completely beyond me. When you have experience working in the geo-political arena maybe you can make such outlandish comments. Maybe with your vast experience you would like to tell us what you would have done, had you been Ambassador for a day yesterday.
As someone who has 4 very good friends working in that embassy right now, I am pretty happy that a firefight didn't break out.
It is called diplomacy for a reason. We may not always like the outcome,but I can pretty much guarantee the Ambassador decided that a pisssing match with these folks yesterday was not in the best interest of his staff tactically speaking and the US strategically speaking. Today is another day and given the past 24 hours events I am sure there are some pretty high level discussions within our government on what the next move it. Geo-political relationships are games of chess not waterballon fights.
Today is another day and given the past 24 hours events I am sure there are some pretty high level discussions within our government on what the next move it. Geo-political relationships are games of chess not waterballon fights.
More support for the arab rebels. Possibly limit free speech, more hate speak laws and crucifiction of Rev. Terry Jones
More support for the arab rebels. Possibly limit free speech, more hate speak laws and crucifiction of Rev. Terry Jones
Not going to happen. There are still too many sheepdogs roaming around :D
...Remember the movie with Denzel Washington and we send a rescue mission and our guys take fire and everyone sort of has a "mad-minute" (help me out what was the name of that movie?). Anyway, my point is that's sort of the choice you have.
Not Denzel Washington...it was Samuel L. Jackson in Rules of Engagement
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0160797/
TacOfficer
09-12-2012, 11:55
Funny I thought the United States sent that message about 30 years ago when jimmy carter allowed the iranians to hold our embassy for 444 days.......... shite that was peaceful muslims also!
I wasn't a big fan of how Mr. Peanut handled that situation either.
I was going to suggest that these things happen when democrats are in office, but historically they happen no matter which party is in office and not only in countries whose allied status is euphemistically questionable but also our closest allies.
How we respond, is another matter altogether.
Attached link was enlightening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_on_diplomatic_missions
Where you got that from Dozer's post is completely beyond me. When you have experience working in the geo-political arena maybe you can make such outlandish comments. Maybe with your vast experience you would like to tell us what you would have done, had you been Ambassador for a day yesterday.
As someone who has 4 very good friends working in that embassy right now, I am pretty happy that a firefight didn't break out.
It is called diplomacy for a reason. We may not always like the outcome,but I can pretty much guarantee the Ambassador decided that a pisssing match with these folks yesterday was not in the best interest of his staff tactically speaking and the US strategically speaking. Today is another day and given the past 24 hours events I am sure there are some pretty high level discussions within our government on what the next move it. Geo-political relationships are games of chess not waterballon fights.
Okay.:rolleyes:
The present U S Administration will DO NOTHING but offer lip service about the incidents in the Middle East. TK
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/mitt-romney-consulate-attack_n_1875906.html
"Mitt Romney Criticizes Obama Administration Over Response To Libya, Egypt Attacks"
And let the games begin,...:eek:
Holly
Not going to happen. There are still too many sheepdogs roaming around :D
I like the way you think....but Mike Barnacle has already suggested the crucifixion of Rev. Terry Jones. While Barnacle is only one person, it only starts one person to start the fire and there are plenty of people out there willing to join the Barnacle chorus to crucify Rev. Jones in the name of appeasement.
And if they are allowed to accomplish that the radicals will have won.
What Mr. Barnacle fails to realize (or maybe he does) is that in prosecuting Rev. Jones, he (Barnacle) is endorsing limits on Free Speech and Political Descent. In time this mindset will come to bite proponents such as Mr. Barnacle in the ass....someone will come for him.
It reminds me of Niemöller's 'First they came'.
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/mike-barnicle-suggests-prosecuting-florida-pastor-american-ambassadors-death
The Reaper
09-12-2012, 19:25
1. No large protests occur in Egypt without someone high in the food chain's permission, if not active guidance. In this case, I believe they were cleared by the elected Egyptian leadership via the Muslim Brotherhood. My personal belief is that they did it on 9/11 for a reason, using the movie as a cover for action, with the intent of extorting more protection, I mean, aid money. This is supposedly also a show of force between the MB and the Salafists. The MB leadership had to let it go, or risk appearing a toadie of the Americans. Interestingly, the easiest way to have handled this would have been to let the Army mow the protestors down, then blame the military leadership and sack them. Unfortunately, the MB had already replaced all of the leadership recently with their own boys.
2. "Protestors" with automatic weapons and RPGs attacking at night are not protestors, they are enemy combatants.
3. The murders of the Ambassador and three additional Embassy personnel in Libya appears to have been an inside job, perhaps an AQ team. One of the victims posted earlier in the day that they were being photographed and surveilled by their own Libyan security team, and allegedly, the security team pointed out to the assassins where the safe house was (and the Embassy personnel were hiding). Another 9/11 coincidence?
4. Any response that is not quick and powerful will invite more of these attacks in the very near future. We should be building our PTK list right now and going after the assassins and terrorists with all means at our disposal. Libyan airspace should be very crowded over the next few days. I am stunned that we appear to be willing to deny Constitutional rights of American citizens in order to placate foreigners who wish us harm, regardless of how much we try to make them love us. These are people we helped liberate their country. Better to be respected.
5. Host nations need to be told that we will hold their security forces and leadership responsible for any hostile acts against our diplomatic personnel in their country. We stayed at it till we got Saddam and Osama. They are not beyond our reach as well. Full application of diplomatic, informational, economic, and yes, military power should be considered and applied as necessary. For example, take half the remaining US aid off the table for every attack. No point in rewarding our enemies while we take on new debt. I think we explained this before to them properly, back in 1815 or so.
TR
I am stunned that we appear to be willing to deny Constitutional rights of American citizens in order to placate foreigners who wish us harm, regardless of how much we try to make them love us.
I am also stunned and disgusted.
Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff calls Qur'an-burning pastor, asks him to practice Sharia-compliant self-censorship
It's come to this. Even the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff thinks that it if Muslims respond to something with murderous violence, it is up to the non-Muslims to change the way they behave so as to accommodate them. And so eleven years after 9/11, terrorism well and truly won: now if any group wants anything, they know that all they have to do in order to get it is rampage and riot and kill.
Also, this film didn't "spark violent protests." The film has been on YouTube since 2011. Someone found the film and thought it would serve as a pretext for attacks on Americans on September 11.
And in response, General Dempsey calls those who are supposedly responsible for the film and asks them to submit voluntarily to Sharia restrictions on the freedom of speech regarding Islam.
Link (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/chairman-of-joint-chiefs-of-staff-calls-quran-burning-pastor-asks-him-to-practice-sharia-compliant-s.html)
Pastor Terry Jones did not produce the film. Apparently, he was planning a showing of the film.
Jones said he received a 13-minute trailer of the movie, "Innocence of Muslims," via email two weeks ago and planned to show it on his website on Tuesday as part of a so-called International Judge Muhammad Day marking the anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks.
Link (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/top-u-military-officer-calls-pastor-over-film-190209814.html)
No, It’s Sharia and the Assault on U.S. Missions
By Andrew C. McCarthy
September 12, 2012 11:02 A.M.
I could not more vigorously disagree with my friend Daniel Pipes, who disappointingly lays fault for yesterday’s carnage at the feet of Reverend Terry Jones. In essence, Daniel — like much of the progressive, bipartisan U.S. ruling class — adopts the reasoning of Muslim Brotherhood jurist Yusuf Qaradawi, who admonishes that women who fail to conform to fundamentalist Islam’s restrictive sartorial standards have only themselves to blame when they get raped.
Let’s say Terry Jones was Imam Terry Jones. It is not hard to imagine because there goes by not a day when some Islamist leader of far more consequence than Jones matter-of-factly spouts hatred of America and the West that is more provocative, and more representative of his country or region, than anything that has ever passed Jones’s lips. Would it make you riot? Would it make you commit murder? Would it foment more than a yawn? And if it did stir so much as a suggestion that this typical Muslim leader should be silenced, the only public protests and pious government caterwauling would be directed at that suggestion, not at the anti-American incitements that prompted it.
The coordinated violence against American installations in the Middle East on the eleventh anniversary of 9/11 was caused by one thing: Islamic supremacism. Contrary to the knowing lies government officials and opinion elites have been feeding the American people for 20 years, Islamic supremacism is not the fringe ideology of the terrorists; it is the predominant Islam of the Middle East. By margins of upwards of 2 to 1, the United States and the West are despised in countries like Egypt and Libya. As I point out in my just-released book, Spring Fever: The Illusion of Islamic Democracy, when given the chance, Egyptians elected Islamic supremacists by a 4-to-1 margin. The only surprise in the voting was not the weakness of secular democrats — that they are a non-factor, even though American politicians continue to depict them as emblematic of the Muslim Middle East, was a given. The surprise was that the Muslim Brotherhood, which has reaffirmed its goal of a global caliphate ruled by sharia, is not quite devout enough for about a quarter of Egyptians, who voted for the even more extreme “Salafist” parties.
Under sharia, as construed by Islamic supremacists (i.e., at least two-thirds of Middle East Muslims), any negative criticism of Islam or its prophet, no matter how trifling, is deemed to be blasphemy and warrants violent reprisals — including death. These Muslims — hundreds of millions of them — consider this to be a divine ordinance and thus to be imposed on Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
Understand that Islam, particularly as Islamic supremacists interpret it, is not merely a religion; it is a totalitarian ideology that has some spiritual principles, which make up a small subset of the belief system. Blasphemy is not applied only to the spiritual principles — say, to the oneness of Allah, and the like. The speech prohibition applies across the board to all Islamic doctrine. You’ve got a problem with a woman’s court testimony being worth only half of a man’s? Blasphemy! You’ve got a problem with needing four male witnesses to prove rape? Blasphemy! You’ve got a problem with the death penalty for homosexuals? With stoning for adulterers? With scourging for the consumption of alcohol? Blasphemy, blasphemy, blasphemy!
That’s what causes the rioting and murder. The “blasphemers” are only a pretext. What causes this is the indoctrination of Muslim populations in an evil ideology that justifies savagery over nonsense. That’s the proximate cause. If you want to look at a material cause beyond the proximate cause, the place to start would be American officials like the ones Daniel cites with seeming approval: David Petraeus, Robert Gates, Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama — and I’d add Lindsey Graham to the list. They are the officials who condemned Terry Jones’s exercise of free speech — book burning — because, as Daniel gently puts it, they were “worried it would lead to Muslim violence against Americans.” That is shameful. What “leads to Muslim violence” is the toxic combination of Islamic teaching that violence is the appropriate response to even minor insults and the dhimmified superpower’s acquiescence in this barbarism.
At RadicalIslam.org, former CIA operations officer Clare Lopez has an excellent post this morning explaining the Obama administration’s complicity in the campaign by the Organization of Islamic Cooperation to impose sharia blasphemy standards on the world. (I would point you to Clare’s essay even if she had not been good enough to mention something I’d written.) After laying out the Obama State Department’s disgraceful statement yesterday, from its Cairo embassy, condemning American free speech and ignoring Islamist aggression (“The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims,” and so on), Clare writes:
That statement came directly out of the talking points of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) on its Ten-Year Programme of Action and is intended by both the OIC and the U.S. Department of State to impose legal limits on Americans’ freedom of speech by criminalizing criticism of Islam. Recall that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton hosted OIC Secretary General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu in Washington, D.C. in mid-December 2011 to discuss implementation mechanisms for “Resolution 16/18,” a declaration adopted by the U.N. Human Rights Council in April 2011.
Resolution 16/18 calls on countries to combat “intolerance, negative stereotyping and stigmatization” based on religion without criminalizing free speech – except in cases of “incitement to imminent violence.” If now the measure of “incitement to imminent violence” is a “test of consequences” that imposes prior restraint on freedom of expression because of the unpredictability of volatile Muslim populaces easily roused to murderous fury, as in Benghazi and Cairo, then Islamic law on slander will have been enforced.
This is the real meaning of these attacks, which were purposefully calculated precisely to elicit the craven press release quoted above from the U.S. State Department. This is how dhimmitude is implemented. Islamic Jihad and Gama’a al-Islamiyya demands for the release of Omar Abdul Rahman (the “Blind Sheikh”), now serving a life sentence in U.S. federal prison for his involvement in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, also have been issued, along with a threat to burn the U.S. Cairo Embassy to the ground if these demands are not met.
We are witnessing the stepped process of the Islamization of American domestic and foreign policy unfold before our eyes and in accordance with both Sayyed Qutb’s classic book “Milestones,” as well as a November 2011 fatwa from Yousef al-Qaradawi, the Muslim Brotherhood’s senior jurist, in which he said, “Gradualism in applying the Sharia is a wise requirement to follow.”
Sheikh Qaradawi is no doubt a happy man today. The plan is working to a T.
MOO, the U.S.'s response to the two acts should forgo a discussion of its causes.
The message should be clear. Regardless of your nationality, your ethnicity, your religion, or your political beliefs, if you violate the sovereignty of the United States of America and you kill American citizens, then you place yourself and everyone you know in mortal peril.
IMO, given the history of the region, the responses should be delivered by a task force that includes the Preble (http://www.history.navy.mil/bios/preble_edward.htm), the Decatur (http://www.history.navy.mil/bios/decatur.htm), and the Bainbridge (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/pers-us/uspers-b/w-bainbg.htm).
My $0.02.
MOO, the U.S.'s response to the two acts should forgo a discussion of its causes.
The message should be clear. Regardless of your nationality, your ethnicity, your religion, or your political beliefs, if you violate the sovereignty of the United States of America and you kill American citizens, then you place yourself and everyone you know in mortal peril.
IMO, given the history of the region, the responses should be delivered by a task force that includes the Preble (http://www.history.navy.mil/bios/preble_edward.htm), the Decatur (http://www.history.navy.mil/bios/decatur.htm), and the Bainbridge (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/pers-us/uspers-b/w-bainbg.htm).
My $0.02.
From our lips to God's ear.
Difference in response
Paradise: Faith
http://www.catholicleague.org/crucifix-masturbation-film-wins/
The left produces another film trashing Christian values because it's "art" and has a message.
1. The west will not riot, burn and kill over it.
2. The left would never do that with Islam or the Koran.
Killing Gays in Iraq? Hey, you lefties, you're # 1 on the Islamist's hit list when they take over.
Funny thing is no one knows who this film maker really is. So who is Sam Bacile? No film was shown in Hollywood as reported. Is there even a film, just a 13 minute trailer on Youtube..
steel_eel
09-13-2012, 06:54
Funny thing is no one knows who this film maker really is. So who is Sam Bacile? No film was shown in Hollywood as reported. Is there even a film, just a 13 minute trailer on Youtube..
He might be an Egyptian Coptic Christian with a criminal record in the US...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/nakoula-basseley-nakoula-anti-islam-film_n_1879195.html
He might be an Egyptian Coptic Christian with a criminal record in the US...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/nakoula-basseley-nakoula-anti-islam-film_n_1879195.html
How are so many of the comments on that article relating to the role of the film and/or its producer? I find it disturbing to see remark after remark about holding the film maker responsible, yet so few (none) about holding the people who sodomized (allegedly) and then murdered a United States Ambassador responsible.
Where is their responsibility in their actions? Has our collective view of muslims truly relegated their role to poor, mindless followers of mohamed who know not what they do?
I find it disturbing to see remark after remark about holding the film maker responsible[.]How is your comment consistent with a post you made on 28 June 2012?
In that post, you agreed Robert Burke's argument that "they" were responsible for producing works of culture that contributed to the erosion of a certain way of life in America.
If it is all right to argue that works of mass popular culture are responsible for motivating one set of behaviors that you consider maladaptive, why is it not okay for others to use that same logic?
These events Egypt and Libya are unfortunate, but considering that it would appear that after all the media lambasting and minimization the National Security Five's concerns may have been justified.
On a related note:
Kansas Congressman Kevin Yoder was on local radio this morning discussing his skinny dipping and more importantly the current 1 billion dollar aid package to Egypt and how some in Congress don't want to yank it.....or don't have time to deal with it because it is already written into a bill.
Dozer523
09-13-2012, 08:47
. . . the people who sodomized (allegedly) and then murdered a United States Ambassador responsible. . .
Source, please.
Source, please.
Here you go QP Dozer http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=467614&postcount=39
dinatius
09-13-2012, 10:14
Deleted.
Team Sergeant
09-13-2012, 11:23
You know what is most disturbing is that the United States is the most powerful nation in the world and these people have absolutely no fear of us. They know we would never step off the moral high ground and stoop to the level of sub-human atrocities they perpetrate on each other and non-muslims.
We as a world didn't take a stand against fascism until it was almost too late. History may show that we didn't take a stand against islam until it was too late.
If this keeps escalating the arab Spring may become the arab century.....
And no I do not see islam as a religion but as a dangerous and insidious ideology.
U.S. Marines defending the American embassy in Egypt were not permitted by the State Department to carry live ammunition, limiting their ability to respond to attacks like those this week on the U.S. consulate in Cairo.
No Live Ammo for Marines (http://freebeacon.com/reports-marines-not-permitted-live-ammo/)
Old Dog New Trick
09-13-2012, 12:06
U.S. Marines defending the American embassy in Egypt were not permitted by the State Department to carry live ammunition, limiting their ability to respond to attacks like those this week on the U.S. consulate in Cairo.
No Live Ammo for Marines (http://freebeacon.com/reports-marines-not-permitted-live-ammo/)
The more things change, the more they remain the same, when will we ever learn from past mistakes.
We are at war with an un-identifiable enemy who does not use bases or orders of movement and can strike at any time and anywhere, and yet we maintain a Force Pro level that requires those on the front line to remain woefully unprepared to take action when action is necessary and immediate.
Sad days ahead...
Badger52
09-13-2012, 12:11
U.S. Marines defending the American embassy in Egypt were not permitted by the State Department to carry live ammunition, limiting their ability to respond to attacks like those this week on the U.S. consulate in Cairo.
No Live Ammo for Marines (http://freebeacon.com/reports-marines-not-permitted-live-ammo/)I don't care if you won an award for the Most Accomodating FSO of the Year down at Brandy. If true, to have such RoE as to disallow inherent self-defense is unconscionable, inexcusable, and a host of things under the heading of 'are you f'n kidding me'?
Team Sergeant
09-13-2012, 13:24
U.S. Marines defending the American embassy in Egypt were not permitted by the State Department to carry live ammunition, limiting their ability to respond to attacks like those this week on the U.S. consulate in Cairo.
No Live Ammo for Marines (http://freebeacon.com/reports-marines-not-permitted-live-ammo/)
Doesn't surprise me in the least.
We had an American Ambassador request Special Forces to send an A-Team to assist & instruct in some violent African country, but with one catch, we were not allowed to bring any weapons with us. Special Forces answered with a resounding "NO".
Not all the ambassadors are selected for their intelligence.
Political appointments as payoffs.
For those that were discussing our aid packages earlier in this thread
President Obama referred to US-Egypt relations as a "work in progress".
"I don't think we would consider them an ally, but we don't consider them an enemy. They are a new government that is trying to find its way," Mr Obama said in a television interview with Spanish-language network Telemundo.
He said that so far Egypt's government has "said the right thing and taken the right steps" but it has also responded to other events in ways that "may not be aligned with our interests".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19584265
We'll see how these riots affect our cash sponsorship of their government in the future.
tom kelly
09-13-2012, 15:42
Both of them are ultra left liberal socialist; as is the majority of the State Dept. On NOV. 6 WE THE PEOPLE WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REPLACE THEM, and THE PEOPLE IN CONGRESS WHO SUPPORT THEM....VOTE RIGHT. TK
From the NBC's L.A. affiliate (source is here (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Deputies-Called-to-Cerritos-Home-Suspected-Anti-Islam-Filmmaker-169713146.html)).
Deputies Called to Cerritos Home of Suspected Anti-Islam Filmmaker
A 15-minute video produced in Southern California is being blamed for sparking deadly unrest in the Middle East and North Africa.
By Vikki Vargas and Stephanie Miranda
| Thursday, Sep 13, 2012 | Updated 6:45 PM PDT
Deputies on Thursday continued to patrol a Cerritos cul de sac where the suspected filmmaker behind the 15-minute video being blamed for violent unrest in the Middle East and North Africa is purported to live.
Officials say the measures are preventative, prompted by the homeowner’s request for stepped up security after media descended on the area Wednesday night.
"There was no disturbance, no crime. We came out about 8:45 p.m. with three patrol cars," said Steve Whitmore with the LA County Sheriff’s Dept.
It is an unlikely location for ground zero: a two-story home in suburban Cerritos. Outside, three cars are parked as if they were abandoned, clothes and prescriptions left in disarray.
On the porch there is a statue of the Virgin Mary. The front door has no door knob and several knocks throughout the day were unanswered.
Neighbors say they know little about the family at the end of their street but the added attention is making them uneasy.
"Yeah, I have concerns. We have families and children and a school down the street. Yes, it’s a concern," neighbor Ulonda Cooper.
Others find it hard to believe the apparent genesis of an international attack might be living only a few doors away.
“I would just feel so uncomfortable. I never see the guy, he just comes and goes, never see him,” said Khalin Tucker.
Property records show the house is owned by Nakoula Besseley Nakoula, the man suspected of being behind the inflammatory anti-Islam film "The Innocence of the Muslims."
Actors in the 15-minute video say they thought they were cast in an Arabian Desert action flick, and allege any anti-Islamic sentiments were dubbed in post-production without their knowledge or consent (video [here] (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Anti-Islam-Film-Actor--It-Was-Cheap--Bad--Horrible/169710916)).
The movie is being blamed for prompting an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Libya, killing Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others.
Self-described consultant Steven Klein said the mystery producer -- who he says goes by the pseudonym Sam Bassiel -- wanted him to fact check the production, adding that he feels "no guilt" for the violence it apparently spurred (video [here (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Film-Consultant--I-Have-No-Blood-on-My-Hand/169587156)]).
"I have no blood on my hand," Klein said. "I feel no guilt. If I tell the truth and they go out and murder, the guilt and shame is on their head, not me."
On Thursday, Klein told NBC4 that threats have compelled him to leave his Hemet neighborhood.
Seems Stevens touched some lives while he was there:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread881046/pg1
Dozer523
09-14-2012, 05:45
No blood on producers hands?
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/09/movie-muslim-world-furious-about-might-not-even-be-movie/56804/
Bring it Mofo
Point
No blood on producers hands?
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/09/movie-muslim-world-furious-about-might-not-even-be-movie/56804/
Bring it Mofo
Counter Point
Misplaced Blame for the Embassy Attacks
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/316842/misplaced-blame-embassy-attacks-jonah-goldberg
".................Are we really going to hold what we can say or do in our own country hostage to the passions of foreign lynch mobs?
If your answer is some of form of “yes,” then you might want to explain why U.S. citizens aren’t justified in attacking Egyptian or Libyan embassies here in America. After all, I get pretty mad when I see goons burning the American flag, and I become downright livid when a U.S. ambassador is murdered. Maybe some of my like-minded friends and I should burn down some embassies here in Washington, D.C., or maybe a consulate in New York City?
Of course we shouldn’t do that. To argue that Americans shouldn’t resort to mayhem while suggesting it’s understandable when Muslims do is to create a double standard that either renders Muslims unaccountable savages (they can’t help themselves!) or casts Americans as somehow less passionate about what we hold dear, be it our flag, our diplomats, or our religions. (It’s hardly as if Islamists don’t defame Christianity, Judaism, moderate forms of Islam, or even atheism.)..........."
All diplomats assume that they can reasonably conduct the business of thier respective country free from fear of persecution or violence. MOO, the unwritten, but very clear foundation supporting this understanding with the host nation, should be that any violation of this compact unleashes a shitstorm on both the perpetrators and their enablers. That shitstorm should potentially include the entire continuum of political, economic and military options, as the case may be.
The mutual respect for all true diplomats and the critical role that they play in providing a measure of stability, particularly during international upheavel and conflict, should trump every argument possibly leveled by apologists for lynch mobs of any stripe - a nation of laws and all that.
Having said that - MOO, the recent attacks that we have sustained are unconscionable and should unleash whatever is necessary to punish the people responsible for the murders in Libya.
...............
Don't sound too "spontaneous" to me......
Just wait till Friday.
Well, it's Friday and it seems the little beavers are having fun all over the middle east - From Tunisia to Kashmir.
Imams must have had some really good sermons.
I think we should use Equal Oppurtunity to the full measure.
one for one exchange on the burning of flags, religious materials (bibles, Korans, etc) and embassies.
I think we should use Equal Oppurtunity to the full measure.
one for one exchange on the burning of flags, religious materials (bibles, Korans, etc) and embassies.
What's the KFC worth?
Maybe it was the sight of all those legs, thighs and breasts that got the crowd fired up?
What's the KFC worth?
Maybe it was the sight of all those legs, thighs and breasts that got the crowd fired up?
let's see... current exchange rate....
One KFC = 2 lean to structures, 55 goats (male), 35 sheep (male), 25 gallons of Diesel (for the generator power supply), and 15 employees...
How is your comment consistent with a post you made on 28 June 2012?
In that post, you agreed Robert Burke's argument that "they" were responsible for producing works of culture that contributed to the erosion of a certain way of life in America.
If it is all right to argue that works of mass popular culture are responsible for motivating one set of behaviors that you consider maladaptive, why is it not okay for others to use that same logic?
Sigaba, you make a startling good point and I have carefully mulled over both my intent for posting the Robert Burke piece, its message, my statement on this thread which you reference and their similarities and differences. Here is my carefully considered response.
The 'they' in Burke's piece is representative of people and ideals who have influenced the erosion of core American values, as you reiterated here. The 'they' as touted by the comments in the article I referenced here, is a single person, and that his 'work' is what has amounted to a commercial.
The 'they' in Burke's piece help fill in the gap left when you look at the values of previous decades, compare them to the current generation and ask, how did we get here from there? The 'they' in the article's comments I referenced is being used as the motivation for destructive and murderous acts all over the world.
If it is 'right' for them (muslims) to say "we are offended, we will kill Christians because of a commercial", then I don't understand why the natural response is for people to say "oh gosh, lets not offend them, lets squash the First Amendment, don't make the commercial, don't make fun of mohammed". Why is our natural response not "Ok, kill Christians and we'll kill muslims".
BMT (RIP)
09-14-2012, 15:36
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4281634,00.html
BMT
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4281634,00.html
BMT
The Sinai has always had their "groups" and Anti-American "people". Never was really a safe place when I was there.
Isn't it about now when our glorious leader apologizes to our Arab brothers again for all of our American mistakes of the past and ask for forgiveness?:mad:
ScubaNinja
09-14-2012, 22:34
I just watched the ‘Muhhamed movie’ that has caused all the outrage in the Middle East. What a bizzare movie to cause such a stir. For years my liberal college professors and what I thought was my own better judgment had me convinced that the majority of Muslims don’t hate us for who we are, and are ways of life are not naturally opposed to one another. I thought there was just ill will towards the US and the West due to military interventions, and of course our support of the state of Israel. I thought that at the end of the day that they are just like us. While they might have strong feelings toward their religion the majority are no more zealous or extreme than people of other religions. I thought they wanted peace, democracy, and freedom.
This chain of events has been extremely telling and I think will prove to be ominous. The attacks that killed the four Americans in Libya seem to have been carried out by an extreme militant group that blended into a more peaceful protest of the movie. While the majority of people are not currently committing violence at that level, what are most alarming to me are the masses of protests about the movie across the entire Middle East. There have been many protests all across the region burning our flags, threatening our embassies with thousands calling for the arrest of, the producer of the movie, Sam Bacile (or whatever his real name is). This shows that the values of the majority of Muslims are indeed diametrically opposed with ours. They are quite clearly filled with hatred because of a silly, imbecilic movie. There is no doubt this movie was made with very poor taste. It is quite disrespectful. The maker of this movie is a moron. Nonetheless, it is a movie and as an American I will support freedom of speech any day. Furthermore, there will never be a day that violence over a movie will be justified in my mind. Our belief in freedom of speech can’t co-exist with their dogmatic furor for their religion. It is no wonder the Arab Spring has failed to produce any real democracies it is truly a foreign unobtainable concept to them. Without freedom of speech you can’t have democracy.
The Arab spring shows that their people are hungry for change, they long for the former greatness of the Muslim empire. But what kind of change will that be? When the Arab Spring first started occurring I was optimistic that they truly wanted democracy, and they desperately needed to throw off the shackles of their dictators. Now, all that angry energy is being directed towards our embassies over a movie. They are fired up that’s for sure, but I now think they are confused as to where to go from here. This chain of events shows that all of their negative energy can and is being directed towards us. Extreme militant groups constantly look to fill power vaccums that are currently being created. This is not a matter of them just hating our government for their foreign policy. This is truly a clash of cultures. As time goes on Samuel Huntington’s theory of an emerging multi-polar world seems to be coming true.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the U.S. and subsequently myself will be fighting another war there in the future. I just hope I will have completed my training and will have learned Arabic in time to be of some use… At the very least there is much work to be done there. I hope for peace, and truly want peace and democracy for their people, but it is clear that peace will be hard fought for.
As a side note I would like to declare that I am a proud atheist, and respect everyone’s religious beliefs until those beliefs turn violent.
Dozer523
09-15-2012, 03:51
Scoobie,
This is your eleventh post and your fifth thread.
That's excessive thread initiation. (Digital diarrhea)
This subject is already being addressed here >> http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39486 and the conversation is evolving.
The purpose of PS is to exchange ideas with one another. Your zealous thread starting looks like you'd rather hear your own voice.
A little advice, READ the new posts
SEARCH your possible threads key word (in this case the producer’s name)
PREVIEW your submission BEFORE
SUBMIT REPLY.
(Some even compose word documents to take advantage of the editing tools)
Dozer523
09-15-2012, 04:28
Scoobie, This belongs here no need to begin a new thread, I just watched the ‘Muhhamed movie’ that has caused all the outrage in the Middle East. What a bizzare movie to cause such a stir. It's not a movie For years my liberal college professors and what I thought was my own better judgment fooled by th libral elite? Get in line., had me convinced that the majority of Muslims don’t hate us for who we are, and are ways of life are not naturally opposed to one another. I thought there was just ill will towards the US and the West due to military interventions, and of course our support of the state of Israel. I thought that at the end of the day that they are just like us. While they might have strong feelings toward their religion the majority are no more zealous or extreme than people of other religions. I thought they wanted peace, democracy, and freedom. That seems to be the leftist party line.
This chain of events has been extremely telling and I think will prove to be ominous.:eek: The attacks that killed the four Americans in Libya seem to have been carried out by an extreme militant group that blended into a more peaceful protest of the movie.:eek: While the majority of people are not currently committing violence at that level, what are most alarming to me are the masses of protests about the movie across the entire Middle East. There have been many protests all across the region burning our flags, threatening our embassies with thousands calling for the arrest of, the producer of the movie, Sam Bacile (or whatever his real name is). This shows that the values of the majority of Muslims are indeed diametrically opposed with ours.
We're not diametrically opposed to silly, imbecilic, deliberately provocative, profit motivated hate speech that is directly linked to the murder of our diplomats? They are quite clearly filled with hatred because of a silly, imbecilic movie. There is no doubt this movie was made with very poor taste. So? This is America! We can say whatever we want. It is quite disrespectful. So? This is America! The maker of this movie is a moron. So? This is America! Nonetheless, it is a movie and as an American I will support freedom of speech any day. Even when it gets people killed? The shouting "Fire" movie house arguement goes here Furthermore, there will never be a day that violence over a movie will be justified in my mind. "Nonetheless, it is a movie and as an American I will support freedom of speech any day."Our belief in freedom of speech can’t co-exist with their dogmatic furor for their religion. Doesn't seem to be doing real well with your logic model, either It is no wonder the Arab Spring has failed to produce any real democracies it is truly a foreign unobtainable concept to them. Without freedom of speech you can’t have democracy. The "Arab Spring" was six months ago, but your right it doesn't seem to be producing American style democracies. But are you sure democracy was the goal or just the ousting of repressive governments? The Arab spring shows that their people are hungry for change, they long for the former greatness of the Muslim empire. But what kind of change will that be? When the Arab Spring first started occurring I was optimistic that they truly wanted democracy, and they desperately needed to throw off the shackles of their dictators. Yeah?Now, all that angry energy is being directed towards our embassies over a movie. So? They are fired up that’s for sure, but I now think they are confused as to where to go from here. Yup.This chain of events shows that all of their negative energy can and is being directed towards us. Extreme militant groups constantly look to fill power vaccums that are currently being created. Yup This is not a matter of them just hating our government for their foreign policy. This is truly a clash of cultures. As time goes on Samuel Huntington’s theory of an emerging multi-polar world seems to be coming true.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the U.S. and subsequently myself will be fighting another war there in the future. It's what we do. But you can be comforted thatyou are defending Sam Bacile constitutional right to be a hate mongering, profit mitivated moron I just hope I will have completed my training and will have learned Arabic in time to be of some use… Me too At the very least there is much work to be done there. I hope for peace, Me tooand truly want peace and democracy for their people, Not me. Well the peace part, yeah. I don't have a right to dictate what form of government they chose but I hope it is a reasonable onebut it is clear that peace will be hard fought for. Yup
As a side note I would like to declare that I am a proud atheist, and respect everyone’s religious beliefs until those beliefs turn violent. So you really don't know much about religion at all. YGTBSM
So Dozer is it your position that Islam should be protected from bad "free speech" while other religions are fair game?
If so, why?
Who should decide what is bad or good speech? CAIR?
Dozer523
09-15-2012, 05:04
So Dozer is it your position that Islam should be protected from bad "free speech" while other religions are fair game?
If so, why?
Who should decide what is bad or good speech? CAIR? Pete, I think everyone deserves protection from "fighting words" and "hate speech". This "movie"is not an expression of free speech it is propaganda. It's purpose is to incite not illuminate, not amuse, nor educate.
If one has a right to say anything doesn't it follow another has a right not to hear it?
And if so, in our modern communication sdystem, how does one avail themselves of the right not to hear?
Especially when the speaker is shouting in thier face?
On those occassions when my wife (My Reason For Living) and I get into an arguement sometimes I start to yell.
MRFL will ask, "Why are you shouting." My reply is, "If I can't make you listen, I can make sure you hear."
That's not a very good reason. I'm gonna changs that. Thanks, Pete
This is a pretty good artical. Unable to link article, but worth a google. Try going with the title.
Here's a snip
Why is the Muslim World So Easily Offended?
If Islam’s rise was spectacular, its fall was swift and unsparing. This is the world that the great historian Bernard Lewis explored in his 2002 book “What Went Wrong?” The blessing of God, seen at work in the ascent of the Muslims, now appeared to desert them. The ruling caliphate, with its base in Baghdad, was torn asunder by a Mongol invasion in the 13th century. Soldiers of fortune from the Turkic Steppes sacked cities and left a legacy of military seizures of power that is still the bane of the Arabs. Little remained of their philosophy and literature, and after the Ottoman Turks overran Arab countries to their south in the 16th century, the Arabs seemed to exit history; they were now subjects of others.
The coming of the West to their world brought superior military, administrative and intellectual achievement into their midst — and the outsiders were unsparing in their judgments. They belittled the military prowess of the Arabs, and they were scandalized by the traditional treatment of women and the separation of the sexes that crippled Arab society.
Even as Arabs insist that their defects were inflicted on them by outsiders, they know their weaknesses. Younger Arabs today can be brittle and proud about their culture, yet deeply ashamed of what they see around them. They know that more than 300 million Arabs have fallen to economic stagnation and cultural decline. They know that the standing of Arab states along the measures that matter — political freedom, status of women, economic growth — is low. In the privacy of their own language, in daily chatter on the street, on blogs and in the media, and in works of art and fiction, they probe endlessly what befell them.
But woe to the outsider who ventures onto that explosive terrain. The assumption is that Westerners bear Arabs malice, that Western judgments are always slanted and cruel.
Fouad Ajami, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, is the author of “The Syrian Rebellion.”
Pete, I think everyone deserves protection from "fighting words" and "hate speech". This "movie"is not an expression of free speech it is propaganda. It's purpose is to incite not illuminate, not amuse, nor educate.
So the artist who made Piss Christ should be put to death?
Right now those who decide just what is "fighting words" or "hate speech" seem to have a vary narrow view of just who is doing it.
Seems the left and Islam are protected while everyone else is fair game.
Dozer523
09-15-2012, 07:09
So the artist who made Piss Christ should be put to death?
Right now those who decide just what is "fighting words" or "hate speech" seem to have a vary narrow view of just who is doing it.
Seems the left and Islam are protected while everyone else is fair game.
I'm a Catholic and i work at my faith. I remember that "art" and i was very offended I didn't advocate that person's death but if he was a fellow Catholic i would have been pleased to see him excommunicated.
Thinking of that offensive "work" now i am expanding my ire audience to include the jerk reporters who "just had to bring this to the world's and my attention. How could anyone not realize the purpose of piss ... was anything but meant to offend? So, along my thinking why was i forced to hear what i wouldn't listen to? And since my rights are infringed, my life is invaded, why am i denied recourse?
Worth reading
Some for the first time. Others have read it in the past little while.
"The Video Didn’t Do It"
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/video-didn-t-do-it_652387.html?page=1
"......................What we have seen unfold in the Middle East over the last week is what distinguishes the region’s societies from our own. The protests in Cairo and Benghazi were not really about the film, the preacher, or Muslim sensitivities. They were an exercise in raw power politics, partly aimed at intramural rivals in the Arab political sphere, but mainly against the United States.
If the reaction of U.S. officials in the face of such an assault is to “condemn . . . efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims” (the initial response of the U.S. embassy in Cairo) and to try to silence individual citizens, there is good reason for the terrorists to believe that, with more acts of terror, they will also change American policies. The unpleasant fact is that the Obama administration has encouraged our adversaries to keep at it...................."
Snaquebite
09-15-2012, 08:27
"The Video Didn’t Didn't Do It"
EXACTLY...The video has been on the net for some time....
ScubaNinja
09-15-2012, 08:34
Your commentary and responses to my post seem at times a bit nitpicky, condescending, and at times contradictory to itself. But it’s ok I will not resort to mudslinging on the internet, focus on the issues, and rebut your main criticisms of my post.
"We're not diametrically opposed to silly, imbecilic, deliberately provocative, profit motivated hate speech that is directly linked to the murder of our diplomats?"
We are diametrically opposed to thousands of Muslims staging violent protests, and killing Americans over a movie.
"Even when it gets people killed? The shouting "Fire" movie house arguement goes here"
I can perfectly understand there being a debate about whether or not media that clearly incites violence or causes bodily harm should be allowed to be released, or like-wise if there should be repercussions for such media. For example, the Julian Assange wiki leaks case. However, how would you have us react to this chain of events?
You say, “Pete, I think everyone deserves protection from "fighting words" and "hate speech".”
It is impossible to draw a line anywhere between ‘good’ free speech and ‘hate speech.’ Furthermore, it would be impossible to enforce such laws. Anyone can post whatever they want on the internet, and the whole world has time to get offended by it before it can be censored or removed. We can’t permit the death of Americans every time Muslims, with their extreme sensitivity get butt hurt, and decide to rampage.
The point is Americans have just been killed over a 14 minute Clip! Responding to this violence by enacting laws that prevent offensive free speech would clearly be a sorry show of acquiescence and weakness that would only embolden those who wish us harm.
"It's what we do. But you can be comforted thatyou are defending Sam Bacile constitutional right to be a hate mongering, profit mitivated moron"
I will be comforted knowing that I am fighting because thousands of Muslims have breached our sovereignty, killed our ambassadors and countrymen, and quite clearly wish conformity to their way of life or death upon us all. I am not saying we go right now and wage war on all of Islam. I am saying a future war seems likely.
"So you really don't know much about religion at all."
How did you come to the conclusion that I know nothing about religion? I don’t think religion directly causes violence. I think people can sometimes use it as a tool to incite violence.
There is no easy answer to the question of how we should respond to this chain of events, but apologizing or showing any sort of weakness after Americans have died is unacceptable, and condones the behavior.
Dozer523
09-15-2012, 08:51
Your commentary and responses to my post seem at times a bit nitpicky, condescending, ... . Yeah. So?
ZonieDiver
09-15-2012, 09:34
Your commentary and responses to my post seem at times a bit nitpicky, condescending, and at times contradictory to itself. <snip>
There's that word again! N itpicky... nitpicking... nit-picking.
When was the last time I read it in this forum? Hmmmm... oh, yeah. Some South African used it and got butt-hurt when I called him on its use in regard to a respected QP member of this forum.
FWIW, "nit-picking" is a major part of what SF is about. Don't believe me? Sit through a thorough briefback and you'll see some world class nit-picking!
It's done for good reason. Get used to it. Trust me, it will only become more common in your life as you progress through your SF training, and especially, your first team.
PS - Condescending?!? Better get used to that, too!:D
Dozer523
09-15-2012, 21:46
Going back to the root of the problem, consider:
Who's indignation is more rightous?
Ours -- defending a phoney who makes a movie we denounce; but not because he IS right but because it is his "RIGHT"?
or
Arabs -- denouncing a movie that's is WRONG because it's only purpose is to insults thier religion.
There are lots of battles that need fighting, this isn't one of them.
Old Dog New Trick
09-15-2012, 23:17
Going back to the root of the problem, consider:
Who's indignation is more rightous?
Ours -- defending a phoney who makes a movie we denounce; but not because he IS right but because it is his "RIGHT"?
or
Arabs -- denouncing a movie that's is WRONG because it's only purpose is to insults thier religion.
There are lots of battles that need fighting, this isn't one of them.
I could righteously agree to putting the producer and his cronies butts on a non-stop Gulfstream to Egypt on a one way fact finding mission. It would only need to be a one way trip. ;)
Paragrouper
09-16-2012, 00:01
Going back to the root of the problem, consider:
Who's indignation is more rightous?
Ours -- defending a phoney who makes a movie we denounce; but not because he IS right but because it is his "RIGHT"?
or
Arabs -- denouncing a movie that's is WRONG because it's only purpose is to insults thier religion.
There are lots of battles that need fighting, this isn't one of them.
Do you really want to allow others to interpret our constitution by their violent acts?
I watched the trailer—it was stupid. It was just as stupid as the preacher in Florida who wanted to burn Korans, as stupid as those who denigrate Judaism and Christianity. People all over the world and in our country routinely bash our people, our lifestyles, our religion and our symbols—all protected by the first amendment of our constitution—often referred to as “art.”
This isn’t really about who has the right to be indignant, this is about mob rule and those mobs are being encouraged to commit acts of violence via their religious leaders. No matter how offensive one perceives a stupid movie trailer, it does not justify the attack of Amercian soil and the murder of our citzens.
Dozer523
09-16-2012, 03:50
The latest,
White House girds for long siege of Arab unrest http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49048022
Libyan president tells NBC: 'Foreigners' involved in US Consulate attackhttp://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/15/13885782-libyan-president-tells-nbc-foreigners-involved-in-us-consulate-attack?lite
Sudan rejects addition of Marines at US Embassyhttp://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/15/13884561-sudan-rejects-addition-of-marines-at-us-embassy
Also there is a video report that the Egyptian government has moved in to clear protestors from the area around the US embassy
Tertiary effects?
PedOncoDoc
09-16-2012, 06:34
Going back to the root of the problem, consider:
Who's indignation is more rightous?
Ours -- defending a phoney who makes a movie we denounce; but not because he IS right but because it is his "RIGHT"?
or
Arabs -- denouncing a movie that's is WRONG because it's only purpose is to insults thier religion.
There are lots of battles that need fighting, this isn't one of them.
I don't think anyone is faulting the Muslims for being upset with an inflammatory video.
I do have a major problem with how they reacted, however. I do not comprehend the logic that states, "Someone made a video that insulted the prophet of my religion, so lets go kill Americans!"
The latest,
White House girds for long siege of Arab unrest http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49048022
Libyan president tells NBC: 'Foreigners' involved in US Consulate attackhttp://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/15/13885782-libyan-president-tells-nbc-foreigners-involved-in-us-consulate-attack?lite
Sudan rejects addition of Marines at US Embassyhttp://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/15/13884561-sudan-rejects-addition-of-marines-at-us-embassy
Also there is a video report that the Egyptian government has moved in to clear protestors from the area around the US embassy
Tertiary effects?
In my opinion, this video is only an excuse. The Arab Spring turned into a tinderbox a while ago, this was just the match that lit it. If it wasn't this video it would be something else. IMHO these folks aren't protesting the use of their Prophet, it is simply endemic of what is going on all over the ME.
You have a large portion of 18-35 year olds who are unemployed. These folks tend to be males because that is what is valued in their society. So a bunch of young malea who.already have testosterone problems :) are told by their Imam that the US/Israel is the cause of all their problems. So that is where it starts.
The political elite of these countries have no interest in bettering their citizens and are happy to.watch them kill.each other, and if a byproduct is killing a few of us in the mean time, all the better. Nothing we do will change this. We just need to figure out how to deal.with it with honesty instead of the crap that keeps leaking out of politicians mouths.
I for one am willing to pay more for gas if it means not having any more of brothers and.sisters killed. We have tried making things better for these folks, and they don't want it. I say pull out of the ME in its entirety, but let the governments know that if an attack is.launched against us from their country, they can look forward to a glass parking lot
You have a large portion of 18-35 year olds who are unemployed. These folks tend to be males because that is what is valued in their society. So a bunch of young malea who.already have testosterone problems :) are told by their Imam that the US/Israel is the cause of all their problems. So that is where it starts.
BINGO!!
I most countries the elite control everything just AD here in the U.S.A. But in Muslim Countries their elected elite class only value in the society they are only apart of, not the while country. Then you have that religious elite class leaders have their views that are different from the elected class and these differences cause these problems. This unemployed youth in ALL these Muslim countries will never be under control.
Art mocking Judeo Christian religions good.
Art mocking Islam bad.
Tim Blair
Friday, September 14, 2012 (6:27pm)
The New York Times editorial of October 2, 1999, defends the display of Andres Serrano’s Piss Christ and Chris Ofili’s The Holy Virgin Mary:
A museum is obliged to challenge the public as well as to placate it, or else the museum becomes a chamber of attractive ghosts, an institution completely disconnected from art in our time.
The New York Times editorial of September 12, 2012, condemns the display of The Innocence of Muslims:
Whoever made the film did true damage to the interests of the United States and its core principle of respecting all faiths.
Whatever happened to “challenging the public”? Or is that obligation rendered non-obligatory when a certain public responds to challenges by killing people?
Link (http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/times_changes/)
For all of you that have become the arbiters of what is "acceptable" free speech, where was/is your righteous indignation against the Westboro Baptist Church? Especially on this site, I would think that the members here would find their speech far more objectionable.
Shouldn't we be loading up the hunting dogs and rifles in the pickup truck to go burn down their "church"?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/
I for one will side on support for the producer of the movie/trailer in question, even though I find the content distasteful. Westboro Baptist has spewed venom and hate for years, including at the funerals of our fallen brethren, and they haven't been muzzled or had their website taken down...But some idiot with a camera and a dream threw together a shitty video and the censorship police come out of the woodwork.
If the majority of Muslims in the Middle East are so psychologically fragile and emotionally repressed that every actual or perceived slight against them/their prophet/their religion elicits such a disproportionate response...then f' em...where does this end?
The internet is littered with sites that disparage Muhammad, so I highly doubt that this video was the proximate cause of all this:
http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_13_The_Pedophile_Pirate.Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COpx_uZg_C8
We cannot allow the actions of people/entities/organizations external to the US to directly or indirectly determine/influence/infringe upon the rights of our citizens in the US. If we do, we will have truly reached a turning point...
But some idiot with a camera and a dream threw together a shitty video and the censorship police come out of the woodwork.
Enforcing shariah through self imposed dhimmitude... :(
Muslim cleric Abu Islam Burns the Holy Bible
http://continentalnews.net/2012/09/16/muslim-abu-islam-11983.html
"Muslim cleric Abu Islam Burns the Holy Bible in front of thousands of Muslims at protest outside the US Embassy in Cairo, Egypt, on Tuesday, 9/11. His action was met with applause and anti-Christian cheers from the demonstrators.............."
Worth a slow close read. Seems he says he didn't burn it. He just tore it up, threw some pages to the crowd to stomp on and then a man standing next to him burned it.
Some interesting back and forth between the government and Coptics also.
And Christians all over the world will come boiling out of the churches on Sunday to burn and kill!
Paragrouper
09-17-2012, 06:12
Q; What to do when you just can't fill those camera shots with angry protesters?
A: Rent-A-Riot!
Cairo, Egypt (CNN) -- Egypt's prime minister said some of the thousands involved in days of protests near the U.S. Embassy got paid to participate, state news reported Saturday, the same day riot police managed to force demonstrators from the area.
Prime Minister Hesham Kandil said "a number" of those involved in the tense, sometimes violent protests, which began Tuesday, later confessed to getting paid to participate, according to the state-run Middle East News Agency. He noted, too, that some of the demonstrators were acting on their own and weren't paid to vent their anger against the United States over an inflammatory anti-Islam film that was privately produced in that country.
Full Story Here (http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/15/world/meast/egypt-us-embassy-protests/index.html)
Badger52
09-17-2012, 07:42
Worth a slow close read. Seems he says he didn't burn it. He just tore it up, threw some pages to the crowd to stomp on and then a man standing next to him burned it.
I wonder if they consider that their version of "walking remarks back" a little?
This'll play well.
“Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews, the army of Mohammad is coming.”Interesting article.
It will be interesting to see where this rumor ends up.
The U.S. State Department is currently in negotiations with the Egyptian government for the transfer of custody of Omar Abdel-Rahman, also known as “the Blind Sheikh,” for humanitarian and health reasons, a source close to the the Obama administration told TheBlaze.
The Department of Justice, however, told TheBlaze that Rahman is serving a life sentence and is not considered for possible “release.” Previous calls to the State Department were referred to the Department of Justice and so far, the State Department has neither confirmed nor denied the report
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/source-obama-administration-in-talks-to-transfer-blind-sheikh-to-egypt/
IMO, Congressman West makes a valid point in the short article below.
To add to Congressman West's observation, MOO, Clinton, Obama and Rice each appear unprepared and naive - each in thier own way - in this matter.
Roll on November.
Allen West: Rice Is "Asinine, Naive, Inept, Incompetent And Borderline Ignorant."
Rep. ALLEN WEST (R-Fla.) on FOX News' Justice with Judge Jeanine Sunday night: Well, it's very simple. When I listened to the UN ambassador Susan Rice today several words came to mind: asinine, naive, inept, incompetent and borderline ignorant. Because when you understand that the Egyptian government, their intelligence services, put out a letter talking about the potential threat of an attack, uprisings, about a week before this. It was even printed in the Jerusalem Post on 9/11.
And anyhow, I can tell you Judge, being in the combat zones several times after 9/11, we were always on a higher state of security and alertness on 9/11. It should have been the exact same thing here. And for Susan Rice to say this was not a well coordinated attack -- first of all, I have to ask her what is her line of expertise in understanding what a well coordinated attack is because this was not happenstance, it was not coincidence. It was well planned, well coordinated and the president there in Libya confirms that.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/09/17/allen_west_rice_is_asinine_naive_inept_incompetent _and_borderline_ignorant.html
Shades of Islamabad in '79 when a close friend got his first "Blue Star" - the more things change, the more they don't. ;)
Richard :munchin
Shades of Islamabad in '79 when a close friend got his first "Blue Star" - the more things change, the more they don't. ;)
Richard :munchin
Richard, some at CNN appear to share your observations.
The author of the CNN piece does differ with Ambassador Rice regarding "spontaneity."
Survivor of 1979 consulate attack: Libya an eerie echo
September 13, 2012|By Jeffrey Lunstead, Special to CNN
LIBYA
Excerpt:
"There are eerie resemblances between that day in Pakistan and this week's attacks in Libya and Egypt -- rumors of anti-Islamic acts and groups that exploited those rumors to stir up crowds. This is the normal pattern for riots. They are not usually "spontaneous." Instead they are instigated by opportunists."
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-09-13/opinion/opinion_lunstead-1979-embassy-attack_1_consulate-attack-karachi-and-peshawar-pakistan-army
IIRC, 1979 was the Carter administration - IMO another appeaser.
Obama’s Security Breach In Libya Is Ignored By American Media
Scott Paulson
CBS
September 17, 2012 2:08 PM
As the liberal American press and ultra-liberal bloggers inundate the Internet and newsprints with criticisms of what Mitt Romney, the GOP presidential challenger to President Barack Obama, said about Obama during the Libyan attacks and murders, throngs of foreign press and few American outlets tell the real story involved with the White House’s role in the incidents that we now know could have been prevented.
After the American media grabbed and held the pro-Obama headlines against Romney’s comments and took Obama’s “Romney shoots first and aims second” quote to iconic proportions, the rest of the world is reporting that the Obama administration knew about the planned-attack on the Benghazi, Libya Embassy where four Americans, including United States Ambassador Christopher Steven was murdered.
That strong allegation needs to be “the story”, not the political-trouncing of Mitt Romney, a man who has nothing to do with the White House, the U.S. Embassy, or the deadly and non-deadly attacks on our United States Embassy’s around the world. “The story” obviously involves the White House and the president within – Barack Obama – not the Massachusetts challenger.
The reporters and bloggers who have made Mitt Romney the story – instead of the attacked-United States Embassy, the innocent Americans who were attacked, and the White House with its president in abstention as he continually treks the campaign trail regardless of the duties left behind in Washington, D.C. – are guilty of letting another American tragedy remain buried.
All attention must be given to the more-than-strong suggestions that the Libyan attack didn’t “just happen” to have happened on September 11 – the commemorative day of the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York City – but were planned well-in-advance.
While the movie trailer of “Innocence of Muslims” may have added fuel to the venom’s fire regarding the protests throughout the Middle East, the murderous attack on the U.S. Embassy and its American occupants in Benghazi, Libya was no accident – simply orchestrated by a few who had no plan or memory of 9/11.
Reports from a number of knowledgeable sources are being widely-circulated regarding the United States State Department’s having received knowledge of the attack in Benghazi as early as September 9 – two days before the four Americans were killed. That’s “the story”. There were also similar reports that the attack in Cairo was revealed prior to its occurrence. The knowledgeable sources report that no warning was given to persons in the U.S. Embassies in Cairo or Benghazi after the State Department was warned.*In Libya, there were approximately 30 people in the main consulate building who could have been warned but weren’t.
Additionally, Wanis el-Sharef, Libya’s deputy interior minister, told the Associated Press that the heavily armed militants “used” a protest of an anti-Islam film as a “cover” in their deadly attack on the U.S. Embassy while screaming “God is great!”
Yet, American reporters and bloggers waste their printed space writing about their belief that Mitt Romney stepped on Obama’s toes with a political misspeak.
So what!
That is no reason to ignore – or totally replace – “the story”. And anyone who doesn’t realize that has no business reporting or blogging whatsoever. Save the “OMG, a politician dissed another politician” for a slow news day. And the way things are going in this country, there is no clear sign of a slow news day coming anytime soon. There’s a story here, and it’s being ignored by people who wouldn’t challenge President Barack Obama and his White House if their lives depended on it. And, ironically, their lives may depend on reporting “the story” instead of their worthless “Romney piece”. It’s absolutely maddening and totally ludicrous that they are ignoring “the international story”.
If for no other reason, in the name, honor, and memory of United States Ambassador Christopher Steven, information management officer Sean Smith, private security guard and former Navy SEAL Glen Doherty, and security personnel Glen Doherty, allow “the true story” to be told.
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/09/17/obamas-security-breach-in-libya-is-ignored-by-american-media/
Dozer523
09-19-2012, 04:53
US Muslims walk tightrope, denouncing both violence and anti-Islam film
By Kari Huus, NBC News
American Muslims, sometimes accused of failing to speak out against violence carried out in the name of their religion, have forcefully condemned both the amateurish anti-Islam film that triggered recent riots and protest in the Middle East, Asia and north Africa and the violence that it engendered.
"The American Muslim community has been very forceful and consistent in its rejection of a violent response to this intentionally provocative material," said Ibrahim Hooper, director of communications for the Council on American Islamic Relations, a nonprofit Muslim civil rights and advocacy group.
In a flurry of statements, press briefings, vigils, media interviews and interfaith events, groups representing American Muslims were quick to condemn the violence, host vigils for the victims and send condolences to the families of the Benghazi victims. But they also condemned the film, which seems deliberately designed to anger Muslims.
In getting the initial response out, there was an opportunity to make two points, said Hooper.
"People here understand that America and Americans shouldn’t be blamed for the actions of a few individuals who produced this hate film," said Hooper. "They should also understand that all Muslims shouldn’t be blamed for the acts of a few individuals that carried out these attacks as well."
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/18/13942315-us-muslims-walk-tightrope-denouncing-both-violence-and-anti-islam-film?lite
US Muslims walk tightrope, denouncing both violence and anti-Islam film
By Kari Huus, NBC News....................
The population of Egypt is about 90% Muslim and 10% Coptic Christian - at least that was a while ago.
The MB and Salafists got around 75% of the popular vote. Lets just assume that the Coptics didn't vote for the MB of Salafists.
That means about 83% of the Muslims voted for the MB and Salafists.
Last time I took math 83 was bigger than 17.
It's not what they say in the West it's what they say and do in the East.
CAIR ?? Really
From Dozer's story
"............."The Muslim men and women (and yes, there are plenty of women) who support — whether actively or passively — the idea that blasphemers deserve to suffer punishment are not a fringe group," writes Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born woman who fled to Holland to escape an arranged marriage. "On the contrary, they represent the mainstream of contemporary Islam." ................................."
Dozer523
09-19-2012, 08:18
From Dozer's story It's not MY story.
The heck with it . . .
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said on Wednesday the maker of an anti-Islam film that triggered violent protests across the Muslim world abused his right to freedom of expression by making the movie, which he called a "disgraceful and shameful act."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/19/us-protests-un-idUSBRE88I1CW20120919
Arab League chief Nabil al-Araby said Wednesday that the league, along with the Organization of the Islamic Conference, the European Union and the African Union are close to formulating an international agreement penalizing blasphemy and insults to religious figures.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/19/us-protests-un-idUSBRE88I1CW20120919
Personally, I don't believe the movie triggered anything....it was a planned event to coincide with the anniversary of 9/11 and the movie is a mere distraction to advance Islam and Sharia.
I've been working on a deal with Caballero Video for a film titled "Debbie Does Mohammed...and Buddha and Confucius and Jesus and Vishnu and Joseph Smith and L Ron Hubbard and Barbarella and John Holmes and Abraham and Ronald Reagan" - if these riots scare away the Abu Dhabi, Liberty University, and Chinese investors and squealch the deal, I'm gonna be pissed and sue the UN for not protecting my right to freedom of expression and equal opportunity to earn a living in an internationally lucrative and highly competetive market.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
mark46th
09-20-2012, 13:43
Interesting that Hillary condemns anti-Islamic rhetoric but attends the Broadway play "The Book of Mormon". So much for balance and fairness... I guess it is O.K. to defend Islam and Reverend Wright, but not Mormons? How come there weren't any riots in Salt Lake City when "The Book of Mormon" came out?
How come there weren't any riots in Salt Lake City when "The Book of Mormon" came out?
I think that's why she was able to go to the play. That's why South Park does what it does. We know that we can count on Americans generally reacting to a good "trolling" with grace and understanding. We hold freedom of expression (from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) in higher regard than any other country in the world.
Libya: Islamist militia bases stormed in Benghazi
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19680785
"The militia suspected of killing the US ambassador to Libya nearly two weeks ago has been driven out of its base in the eastern city of Benghazi.
Police and protesters stormed the HQ of the Islamist group Ansar al-Sharia.
The HQ of the Sahaty Brigade, said to have official backing, was also stormed. At least nine people were killed there, another died elsewhere....................."
I do like reading this story.
There might be a little hope for them?.......... Nahhhhhhhh
mark46th
09-22-2012, 08:54
I have a feeling a threat of no more foreign aid inspired the government to foment this action...
Make Obama look bad in an election year?
No bueno por chit...