View Full Version : Dishonorable Disclosures
Team Sergeant
09-09-2012, 10:33
Dishonorable Disclosures
I know some folks in this video and agree the leaks need to stop.
http://www.youtube.com/v/X-Xfti7qtT0?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0
ironyoshi
09-09-2012, 13:04
TS, I have been trying to find information on the Pakistani doctor's apprehension ever since I came across this OPSEC video. The partisan "fact checkers" have been all over it. They claim that US leaks had nothing to do with the arrest of the doctor.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/22/special-operations-opsec-education-fund/group-blames-obama-linking-cia-pakistani-doctor/
I was wondering if anyone had any pertinent information regarding that subject. I haven't turned up a detailed discussion here or elsewhere. It's one of the most compelling in the video, in my opinion.
perdurabo
09-09-2012, 15:23
TS, I have been trying to find information on the Pakistani doctor's apprehension ever since I came across this OPSEC video. The partisan "fact checkers" have been all over it. They claim that US leaks had nothing to do with the arrest of the doctor.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/22/special-operations-opsec-education-fund/group-blames-obama-linking-cia-pakistani-doctor/
I was wondering if anyone had any pertinent information regarding that subject. I haven't turned up a detailed discussion here or elsewhere. It's one of the most compelling in the video, in my opinion.
With a little reading between the lines, the situation seems pretty cut and dry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakil_Afridi
With a little reading between the lines, the situation seems pretty cut and dry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakil_Afridi
You've been around long enough to know with Wikipedia and political issues nothing is cut and dried.
blue02hd
09-09-2012, 19:00
With a little reading between the lines, the situation seems pretty cut and dry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakil_Afridi
Are you eff'ing serious?
Read more post less.
aegisnavy
09-09-2012, 23:35
FACT - Doctor who assisted the US in finding UBL was abandoned, intentionally or unintentionally.
Why wasn't he and his family whisked away by a grateful nation? I don't know, but he sure makes a convenient scapegoat for the anger of the Pakistanis.
NOTE TO SELF: When spooks stop by and say "We need your help, and we've got your back," tell 'em you gave at the office and to check next door. (That's if they don't have your jewels in a vice grip while "asking.")
My heart truly goes out to the SOF families. They hold down the fort so that their loved ones can go into harm's way with mission focus. They are the ones who are most betrayed.
I'm not saying it will get better with the next administration, but four more years of this BS is really scary for the future of SOF and OPSEC.
Dozer523
09-10-2012, 04:35
Are you eff'ing serious?As Pete prudently points out Wiki (as any other reporting agency) should be read with an open and critical mind. In this case the references appear extensive, broad and deep.
Seems like a logical progression: The mission need a guy on the inside, he had the credintials to get inside, the mission went well, he was forced to bolt (but, on his own). Post mission, State naturalize and penalizes Pakistan for the prosecution and punishment. Points do seem to line up. And the question seems valid, why WASN'T this guy protected?
Always Askew Aliteration.
FACT - Doctor who assisted the US in finding UBL was abandoned, intentionally or unintentionally.
Why wasn't he and his family whisked away by a grateful nation? I don't know, but he sure makes a convenient scapegoat for the anger of the Pakistanis.
And the question seems valid, why WASN'T this guy protected?
May not be a "FACT" at all.
A CAS like this doctor does not always do what is expected or desired or told to do, and sometimes will not leave their community even when given the impetus and means to do so. The uncertainty of a CAS' COA is a part of "the game" that experienced ffolkes will tell you remains one of several "Jokers" in the hands they're often dealt.
It is what it is.
Richard :munchin
As Pete prudently points out Wiki (as any other reporting agency) should be read with an open and critical mind. In this case the references appear extensive, broad and deep.
Seems like a logical progression: The mission need a guy on the inside, he had the credintials to get inside, the mission went well, he was forced to bolt (but, on his own). Post mission, State naturalize and penalizes Pakistan for the prosecution and punishment. Points do seem to line up. And the question seems valid, why WASN'T this guy protected?
Always Askew Aliteration.
Back in 2003 when Saddam Hussein's son's were eliminated ,the owner of they house where they were hiding was moved to the US and given US Citizenship.
Op. Neptune Spear was definitely more important than the one I stated above,its job was to take out the no.1 Target.It should be safe to assume that the doctor might have been given the same opportunity to flee Pakistan safely by the Agency.Now did he refuse it(there were sources that stated he refused the offer),if he did,he should have been explained the consequences because leak or no leak the ISI would have figured out his role.
The administration is at fault because all the details,the doctors,CIA agents monitoring with cameras and all shouldn't have been released.
The rotten part is the Hollywood part,it is beyond horrible to call these fantasy-land tossers for all this.
My question is:Was it wrong just to mention the name of the unit that carried out the Op?? or the correct thing should have been a simple acknowledgement that "US Forces carried out a raid that killed OBL",that's it and end of story.
Badger52
09-10-2012, 13:22
LINK (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/10/exclusive-jailed-doc-who-helped-nail-bin-laden-warns-us-seen-as-pakistan-worst/)
“I didn’t know about a specific target apart from the work I was given to do,” he said. “The house was famous for its name, Waziristan House. I was aware that some terrorists were residing in that compound, but I didn’t know whom. I was shocked. I didn’t believe I was associated in his killing.”
His CIA handlers had advised him to flee to Afghanistan, where he and his family would be taken care of. Because he had previously been kidnapped in the unruly Pahstun tribal region that straddles the border with Pakistan, Afridi says he was too scared to travel there and decided to stay.
And because he didn’t view himself as being involved in the bin Laden raid, he didn’t believe it was necessary to escape. However, he was abducted by the ISI at a road checkpoint in Hayatabad on May 23, 2011, and soon found himself in a hellish existence of humiliation at the ISI’s headquarters.
HUMINT has human aspects to it. Not the first time someone has decided to stay in the whirlpool of their own volition, and likely detriment.
Just as it's not the first time that someone's masturbatory political goals has cemented their jeopardy. The mouth runners need to face the widowed & their families, and then be informed they no longer have protections afforded them by the rule of law.
ironyoshi
09-10-2012, 14:50
Well, the question remains, is OPSEC's charge that Dr. Afridi was captured because of an information leak correct or not?
This is, of course, separate from the question of whether or not he was given good options to get out as a reward.
Badger52
09-10-2012, 16:48
Well, the question remains, is OPSEC's charge that Dr. Afridi was captured because of an information leak correct or not?
I think it's a valid charge. And I say that having seen this kind of thing for decades, but never this bad...
unless you count people who simply can't STFU because it gives them an "in" with some journalist or they must self-importanly show everyone else how important they are relative to the rest of the watering-hole crowd. Oh. Wait, that sounds like politics.
The current administration is a disaster in this regard.
blue02hd
09-10-2012, 16:59
Well, the question remains, is OPSEC's charge that Dr. Afridi was captured because of an information leak correct or not?
This is, of course, separate from the question of whether or not he was given good options to get out as a reward.
Gentlemen, the fact that this discussion is even in the open is all you really need to know. You can search Wikipedia, Wiki-leaks, you can look at Leakopedia, and you can open search all you like, but the only two sources that can answer your question won't talk. One is in the middle of a re-election, the other doesn't even talk to those in the same office.
Adjust those tin foil hats as needed.
ironyoshi
09-10-2012, 17:16
According to your reply, it seems that OPSEC is wearing some tinfoil.
Unless I did not understand your first sentence.
blue02hd
09-10-2012, 18:20
I would suspect there are many things you might not understand. It's neither here nor there. If you have proof post it. If not it's the ramblings of internet tin foil by those who do not know, or unwilling to commit to it.
Nothing like a conspiracy to bring out the "Experts".
The Reaper
09-10-2012, 19:52
According to your reply, it seems that OPSEC is wearing some tinfoil.
Unless I did not understand your first sentence.
You may want to put down the shovel now and stop digging.
TR
ironyoshi
09-11-2012, 08:04
Nothing like a conspiracy to bring out the "Experts".
OPSEC put the allegation forward. I am just a supporter.
OPSEC put the allegation forward. I am just a supporter.
This is not meant to be nasty, but unless and until you are in a position where you actually have to deal with this type of thing, whether you are a supporter or not is not important.
I am sick and tired of folks who have no clue as to what OPSEC is, other than what they have read about it, thinking that it needs to be discussed. It doesn't.
OPSEC put the allegation forward. I am just a supporter.
Ok I guess you do not get many of the subtle suggestions many have given you.
We are not going to discuss in any detail ……………
KNOCK IT OFF AND STOP POSTING REF THIS………
perdurabo
09-11-2012, 14:36
You've been around long enough to know with Wikipedia and political issues nothing is cut and dried.
Are you eff'ing serious?
Read more post less.
Guys, with all due respect, read the wikipedia article. In this (rare with Wikipedia) case it is extensively sourced.
Also, someone else asked why the US abandoned him. They may not have. A few media sources quote anonymous US officials as having offered the Doctor and his family asylum and he turned it down. So, don't necessarily blame the spooks.
blue02hd
09-11-2012, 18:16
One of the reasons I follow this site, besides the respect I have for many of the QP's who I have known to post here, is this sites ability to police it's own affairs. Information gleened here is not adhoc, halfbaked, or second hand, it's real. The discussions here are moderated by those who have skin in the game, been there done that, teaching those who have the HUGE responsibility to prepare the younger QP's to negotiate these problem sets, and have an anchored interest in OUR community.
Comments and opinions from those without a QP behind their name mean very little or nothing unless vetted and validated by a QP. Every now and then there is an exception!! I cannot tell you how many times Sigabo has pissed me off over the years, but guess what,,,,,, his arguments make sense!!! I VALUE his opinion, but I always validate it. He makes me a better thinker!
Lately I have seen a trend of those who would visit this site and ask leading or trolling questions with little or no added input of their own with respect to the subject at hand. I call BULLSHIT.
BULLSHIT!!
If you have an opinion then state it. If you support an idea then defend it. But do not drop divisive and misleading posts over topics you cannot possibly justify experience with in a forum where you believe you will not be questioned in. It's insulting to those who actually have qualified and demonstrated their ability to participate here, and cheapens the over all value of this forum.
ANYONE who quotes from Wikipedia as an end all be all reference here should lose their right to contribute to these forums, and have their Meal Card stamped "No Desert". That is my recommendation to the Moderators.
If you want an Airsoft Forum then go somewhere else, but some of you posting here are posting like complete idiots, sorry for the heads up. I may have just done you a favor.
BLUE02HD