PDA

View Full Version : Jeffrey MacDonald


ender18d
09-08-2012, 11:24
From the front page of CNN today:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/08/justice/errol-morris-book/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Interesting that this is being brought forward again. I'm curious as to whether any new evidence is put forward in the book. Some of the folks on here may have known him. I honestly don't know enough to make an informed opinion on the matter, but would be interested to hear from folks who have solid knowledge and/or first-hand experience with the man. Any opinions?

Pete
09-08-2012, 14:02
As with most issues people who follow this subject are divided into two camps.

Those that say he did it and those that say he didn't. My family is split right down the middle on it.

Some say is he confessed years back he would be out of prison by now. He got life and has done 33 years.

I'm in the "Didn't" camp.

BrokenSwitch
09-08-2012, 14:58
I heard about this case when I took a forensic science course in high school. The instructor taught it as an example of "what not to do" when investigating a crime scene.

Dozer523
09-08-2012, 15:15
The book and the mini-series were told from the "guilty" perspective. And from the perspective that in the 10 intervening years he was living way to big/well.

Even back in the '87 the quarters were still there -- just boarded up. I remember them as a duplex, thought how creepy it would be to live next door. I wouldn't want to live within sight of it. Good thing the Army doesn't really worry about curb appeal.

The Reaper
09-08-2012, 16:02
He and McGinness stayed in a house next to me prior to and during his trial in Raleigh. I saw him in passing and spoke, he seemed like a decent guy.

The house at 544 Castle Dr. stayed empty and preserved as a crime scene for may years. A buddy of mine said that the MPs on duty used to have to go in as part of their rounds and check it out regularly.

Lots of people drove by and gawked, and no one wanted to stay there, so in their infinite wisdom, the Army changed the name of the street and renumbered the quarters.

People still figured it out, so they were eventually torn down, I think they have been rebuilt by Picerne Housing with new units.

Ultimately, there is only one person alive who knows what really happened, and he may or may not be telling the truth.

TR

ender18d
09-08-2012, 20:54
Ultimately, there is only one person alive who knows what really happened, and he may or may not be telling the truth.

TR

Roger that sir.

I was just curious as QP's tend to be pretty good judges of character most of the time, and was wondering if there was a general consensus in the regiment.

miclo18d
09-10-2012, 06:21
From my understanding, yes, the evidence handling was horrible, but then they didn't have the techniques that we have today. That being said, I never believed the Helter Skelter bull... "It wasn't me...it was the one armed man!"

This story is brought up every few years by regular news and the investigation channels on cable.

Utah Bob
09-10-2012, 06:35
I'm in the "he did it" camp.
But what do I know?

Dozer523
09-10-2012, 08:23
I'm in the "he did it" camp.
But what do I know?
You think everbody's guilty.
And if they didn't do it you'll charge em with intent, predisposition and or conspiracy to commit. :D

mojaveman
09-10-2012, 17:22
The book and the mini-series were told from the "guilty" perspective. Even back in the '87 the quarters were still there.

I didn't even know about the story until I watched a made for television movie on the subject around '84. Like many others at Bragg I then had to go and look at the house. I remember that in Group there were ill jokes and many comments, discussions, arguements, etc. about whether or not he was guilty. From what I heard the Military Police and CID screwed-up the initial investigation somewhat and actually may have helped his defense.

I lean towards believing he did it.

The Reaper
09-10-2012, 19:48
You think everbody's guilty.
And if they didn't do it you'll charge em with intent, predisposition and or conspiracy to commit. :D

Pre-crime?

TR

Dozer523
09-11-2012, 00:20
Pre-crime?

TRWe're talkin' about Utah Bob. That "But what do I know? " is a dead give-away.

Pete
09-16-2012, 04:43
Author argues in book that MacDonald didn't get a fair trial

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2012/09/16/1203976?sac=fo.local

"............."We may never be able to prove with absolute certainty that Jeffrey MacDonald is innocent," author Errol Morris says in the epilogue. "But there are things we do know. We know that the trial was rigged in favor of the prosecution."

Morris says investigators and prosecutors "pursued an unethical vendetta against Jeffrey MacDonald and that evidence was lost, misinterpreted and willfully ignored."............."

longrange1947
09-16-2012, 14:23
I'm more inclined to believe that a shoddy investigation was made in which they figured they had their man and thus made the evidence fit. But hey, what do I know. :D

Pete
09-18-2012, 12:24
MacDonald hearing: Witness testifies another person was in the Fort Bragg home on night of murders

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2012/09/18/1204923?sac=fo.local

".............."My mother said Helena was there and MacDonald was not guilty of the crimes,'' Gene Stoeckley said.

In 1982, he said, Helena Stoeckley Davis visited her mother, whose name is also Helena, in Fayetteville. Gene Stoeckley said his mother told him his sister knew she was dying and brought her infant son with her. Just before his mother died, he said, she told him of his sister's 1982 visit.

He said he then found the website of Jeffrey MacDonald's wife, Kathryn, and contacted her by email, despite his fear of drawing more unwanted attention to his family. Kathryn MacDonald visited his mother at an assisted living facility in Fayetteville.

Kathryn MacDonald brought in a lawyer from Raleigh. An affidavit was drafted and read to his mother, who was legally blind, Gene Stoeckley said. She signed it after making minor corrections, he said.

In cross examination, federal prosecutors tried to show inconsistencies in what Helena Stoeckley Davis told her family..........................."

That was a little detail I didn't know about - remember - they are talking about the mother not the daughter. The mother was referring back to the 1982 visit of the daughter. So the mother believed the daughter was involved.

longrange1947
09-18-2012, 12:48
Something else that came up years ago and was shuffled out was a blond hair that was found at the scene that matched the description of the wig given by the "good doctor"

I have no idea if he is guilty or not and as has been stated, now only the doctor knows, but the botched rail road job is possibly going to null and void the verdict.

SF-TX
09-18-2012, 13:05
The author of Fatal Vision, Joe McGinniss, is the same guy that rented a house next to the Palin's while 'researching' his book The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin doesn't have much respect for the man. She calls him a "stone cold manipulative liar."

MacDonald signed a contract giving McGinniss exclusive rights to his life story, and so McGinniss was given unprecedented access to the defense team – living with them, working with them, eating with them. But when the guilty verdict came down, McGinniss did a one-eighty on them. Apparently, falsely convicted men don’t make for good books. McGinniss decided it was a better story to agree with the jury. MacDonald wasn’t a sympathetic figure. He did himself no favors with some media appearances. So, McGinniss went about writing a book that would convince people the government got the right verdict and we could all pat ourselves on the back and leave Jeffrey MacDonald to rot in his jail cell till Judgment Day.

McGinniss’ book actually embellished the prosecution’s case – even supplying a motive. According to McGinniss’ theory of the case, MacDonald secretly wanted to break free of his wife and kids and so he murdered them one night in a fit of rage induced by some diet pills he was taking. (Oddly enough, the millions of other people who were also taking those same diet pills somehow avoided murdering their families.)

Morris’ final description of McGinniss is apt: “a craven and sloppy journalist who confabulated, lied, and betrayed while ostensibly telling a story about a man who confabulated, lied, and betrayed.”

...But I do know from personal experience that McGinniss is a stone cold manipulative liar.

McGinniss shattered long-time relationships within my circle of friends and family with his horrendous actions while living 12 feet away from my kitchen and lying to people for his book about me and making them lie or twisting their words or even inventing “sources” out of whole cloth. The result of the “evil thing” he “constructed” was unjustly trashed reputations, shattered relationships, and a book of lies vomited into the public record.

What McGinniss did in my town and to my family was sick and vicious. I sympathize with MacDonald and his defense team because I saw firsthand the twisted way McGinniss operates. Before he moved in right next door to spy on us, he stalked us for months, making creepy unwelcomed “visits” to our house, as he tried to manipulatively win our trust the same way he won the trust of MacDonald and his defense team – all so that he could betray us just as he betrayed them.

Of course, I realize that what McGinniss did to thrash my reputation is nowhere near as horrible as what he did to corrupt the narrative of a murder case (especially if it helped keep an innocent man in jail), but it’s still egregious and disgusting because many in the media ran with it in order to add another chapter to their own false narrative. An “artificial view of reality” was sold to the public and no doubt many Americans were led to believe the garbage McGinniss wrote.

Link (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/09/17/Did-Joe-McGinniss-Condemn-an-Innocent-Man)

Utah Bob
09-18-2012, 16:33
You think everbody's guilty.
And if they didn't do it you'll charge em with intent, predisposition and or conspiracy to commit. :D

And reckless parking. ;)
Not to mention mopery with intent to creep!

Shiftee
10-30-2012, 02:14
Currently in my second year of law school. My professor, and former NC Supreme Court Justice, assigned this case for evidence class tomorrow. I'm looking forward to hearing his perspective on the original decision and the current introduction new evidence. If anyone is interested I also have copies of Macdonald's appellant brief, motion for new trial and the government's response. Some fairly compelling issues are being raised.

CSB
10-30-2012, 07:52
I still use the Jeffery MacDonald case as an example to my clients, telling them "you have a Jeffery MacDonald problem."

And they say: "What's that?"

And I say: "The evidence against you is not very strong, but they can prove that your rendering of events is a lie."

And that was Jeffery's problem. For him to claim, for example, "We didn't even own an ice pick at our house" when his father in law watched Jeffery use it to break up the blocks of ice at their 4th of July party, was using an outright lie to deflect blame.

Even a weak case (unclear witness testimony, conflicting lab results, and so on) looks much stronger when the defendant gives a rendering of events that cannot be true. If I recall correctly, in addition to the ice pick statement, for example , each member of the MacDonald family had a different blood type. So it was possible for the detectives to confirm the path of blood from his socks, to one room, then to another room, and from victim to victim.

If Jeffery had said nothing, that could have been explained as going from room to room checking on the wounded/dead family members. But he gave a fairly detailed narrative of entering one room, then another room, never returning to the first room before collapsing from shock. Yet the blood from a second victim was found in the room of a first victim, which means he had to visit one victim, get blood on himself, then go to the second room, get that blood on his feet, then return to the first room, transferring blood from the second victim back into the room of the first.

I once tried a case by court-martial where my proof was weak, but I was able to totally disprove the defense rendering of alibi as bogus. But it takes a very smart jury to see that the case is weak, the defendant lying about what happened is not the same as proving that he committed the crime. In that trial court-martial the court (jury) acquitted.

longrange1947
10-30-2012, 07:58
CSB, lies or faulty memory?? Everyone here has been caught up in a faulty memory. Not saying he is guilty but with teh evidence as shown I would have a hard time saying without reasonable doubt that he is guilty.

Dusty
10-30-2012, 08:21
CSB, lies or faulty memory?? Everyone here has been caught up in a faulty memory. Not saying he is guilty but with teh evidence as shown I would have a hard time saying without reasonable doubt that he is guilty.

He got Lanced.

Shiftee
10-30-2012, 12:09
We didnt get to the case today but I talked to my professor after class. I'm not going to quote exactly what he said but he pointed me to a gross inequality in the amount of time given to the govt to present their case, specifically citing the discrepancy in closing statements. Further, from his perspective this case was potentially mishandled from the beginning and that he'd always had an uneasy feeling with it's result.

I'm interested to see how this goes. I'm hesitant to say I value one man's freedom over another but I can't imagine much worse than to imprison, defame, humiliate and dishonor a Green Beret, a doctor and an officer for 33 years...only to find out he'd always been the honorable man we'd expect from such titles, not taking the lives of his loved ones but in fact suffering their loss. Sadly, as previously mentioned, there's perhaps only one person alive who knows the truth.

Take a look at the arguments presented in this brief...
http://db.tt/RqzstAzc

miclo18d
10-30-2012, 12:54
I'm interested to see how this goes. I'm hesitant to say I value one man's freedom over another but I can't imagine much worse than to imprison, defame, humiliate and dishonor a Green Beret, a doctor and an officer for 33 years...only to find out he'd always been the honorable man we'd expect from such titles.
http://db.tt/RqzstAzc

uh...he wasn't a Green Beret. He wore a green beret. He was not a Graduate of the Q-course. He joined the Army on July 1, 1969 moved to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he held the rank of Captain. MacDonald was assigned to the Green Berets as a Group Surgeon to the 6th Special Forces Group in September 1969. The murders occurred at 3:42 a.m. on February 17, 1970.

Modern Special Forces officers need about 4 years in the Army before they can even apply. I know it was different in 1969 as they weren't branched, but you still had to pass the Q to be Special Forces. MacDonald was Support.

So in my book he never rose to the level to earn THAT respect.

Shiftee
10-30-2012, 13:54
uh...he wasn't a Green Beret. He wore a green beret. He was not a Graduate of the Q-course. He joined the Army on July 1, 1969 moved to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he held the rank of Captain. MacDonald was assigned to the Green Berets as a Group Surgeon to the 6th Special Forces Group in September 1969. The murders occurred at 3:42 a.m. on February 17, 1970.

Modern Special Forces officers need about 4 years in the Army before they can even apply. I know it was different in 1969 as they weren't branched, but you still had to pass the Q to be Special Forces. MacDonald was Support.

So in my book he never rose to the level to earn THAT respect.

I was a little confused when I read news articles stating he was a Green Beret officer and a doctor. I had wondered how that combination could have worked out considering his age. Undergrad, Med school, O3 promotable, Q course...a few years there. Forgive my mistake of history, I saw the beret with flash in pictures and national print stating he was a "Green Beret". Never knew anyone outside of 18 series was authorized. Learn something new everyday. So, essentially he was a doctor...a direct commission officer...assigned to 6th group? Knocks a little of the superman out of my previous perception. Thanks for the correction.

miclo18d
10-31-2012, 22:15
In the past support personnel wore the Green Beret also, but they weren't Special Forces. Special Forces became it's own Branch in 1987, so prior to that you were assigned from your branch, say Infantry, then went to the Q-Course

Before creation of the Special Forces Tab, Special Forces status was indicated by wearing a full-size unit flash on the green beret. A support soldier (military intelligence soldiers, signal personnel, parachute riggers, clerical and administrative personnel, etc.) assigned to a Special Forces unit wore a 1/4" high bar below the Special Forces Crest on his green beret. The bar matched the colors of the unit's flash.

This was not, however, the norm during the Vietnam war, when all soldiers assigned to 5th Special Forces wore identical unit flashes.

After the creation of the tab and until January 1993, all personnel in a Special Forces unit wore the same beret and flash. Today, only Special Forces-qualified soldiers may wear the green beret, making obsolete the unit bar under the flash. Each Special Forces Group has its own unique beret flash, which is worn by all members assigned to the unit; Special Forces-qualified soldiers wear it on the green beret while support personnel wear it on the maroon beret.

I'm no expert on the golden years, so anyone can chime in and explain further. However, MacDonald was not Qualified SF, just support.

I remember a Female supply Sgt that was assigned to Ranger Dept back in the late 80's that wore the Black Beret; It didn't make her a Ranger. She was assigned to a TRADOC school that was authorized the Black Beret and she wore it, to much of our chagrin.

VVVV
11-01-2012, 07:03
uh...he wasn't a Green Beret. He wore a green beret. He was not a Graduate of the Q-course. He joined the Army on July 1, 1969 moved to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he held the rank of Captain. MacDonald was assigned to the Green Berets as a Group Surgeon to the 6th Special Forces Group in September 1969. The murders occurred at 3:42 a.m. on February 17, 1970.

Modern Special Forces officers need about 4 years in the Army before they can even apply. I know it was different in 1969 as they weren't branched, but you still had to pass the Q to be Special Forces. MacDonald was Support.

So in my book he never rose to the level to earn THAT respect.

Have you verified that to be factual w/SWC?

In every picture I have seen of CPT McDonald, he had the group flash on his beret, which back in the day was the indicator for being SF qualified. Non Q'd wore the "Candy Stripe" not the flash. It wasn't unusual for Doctors, and Chaplains to be "3" qualified.

Last hard class
11-01-2012, 07:30
In every picture I have seen of CPT McDonald, he had the group flash on his beret, which back in the day was the indicator for being SF qualified. Non Q'd wore the "Candy Stripe" not the flash. It wasn't unusual for Doctors, and Chaplains to be "3" qualified.

I was in when they got rid of the candy stripe. Any idea when they started using it? Or was it always so?



LHC

miclo18d
11-01-2012, 13:18
Have you verified that to be factual w/SWC?

In every picture I have seen of CPT McDonald, he had the group flash on his beret, which back in the day was the indicator for being SF qualified. Non Q'd wore the "Candy Stripe" not the flash. It wasn't unusual for Doctors, and Chaplains to be "3" qualified.

You know...I didn't and I may make an idiot of myself here by going out on a limb as there are a lot of things I don't know from that period of SF. I was born during that year just a few moths prior to the murders. Some things of note would be that:

MacDonald was commissioned a CPT in the Army on July 1, 1969 Ft SH
Moved to Fort Bragg, North Carolina in JUL 1969
MacDonald attended Jump School in AUG 1969
MacDonald was assigned to the 6th Special Forces Group in SEP 1969 as the Group Surgeon.
The murders occurred at 3:42 a.m. on February 17, 1970.
At the time of the murders he was working at Womack (WACH)


I guess I made my assumption on two things.
1. He was a direct commission Doctor with no prior service
2. He was only available 3-4 months in which to complete the Q-Course.

On the second point that was where I lost point. I don't know what the Q-Course was like in 1969. When I went it took me almost 2 years as an 18D to get through the pipeline. SFAS/SUT/MOSQ/RS/Lang/SERE. Most MOSs took about a year. I know at some point in the past there was OJT and that Robin Sage had several different names but it's the historic Q-Course that I didn't have any info on. As far as calling SFWCS... didn't think about it. Got their #?

VVVV
11-01-2012, 15:55
You know...I didn't and I may make an idiot of myself here by going out on a limb as there are a lot of things I don't know from that period of SF. I was born during that year just a few moths prior to the murders. Some things of note would be that:

MacDonald was commissioned a CPT in the Army on July 1, 1969 Ft SH
Moved to Fort Bragg, North Carolina in JUL 1969
MacDonald attended Jump School in AUG 1969
MacDonald was assigned to the 6th Special Forces Group in SEP 1969 as the Group Surgeon.
The murders occurred at 3:42 a.m. on February 17, 1970.
At the time of the murders he was working at Womack (WACH)


I guess I made my assumption on two things.
1. He was a direct commission Doctor with no prior service
2. He was only available 3-4 months in which to complete the Q-Course.

On the second point that was where I lost point. I don't know what the Q-Course was like in 1969. When I went it took me almost 2 years as an 18D to get through the pipeline. SFAS/SUT/MOSQ/RS/Lang/SERE. Most MOSs took about a year. I know at some point in the past there was OJT and that Robin Sage had several different names but it's the historic Q-Course that I didn't have any info on. As far as calling SFWCS... didn't think about it. Got their #?

The SFQC was much shorter back then. Phase 1- SF Tactics and Techniques / Phase II - SF MOS Course. Start to finish, I think Commo (05B) was 26 weeks to earn the "S" SQI..and it was the longest except for 91B (Medic).

The SF Officer Course wasn't an MOS/AOC producing course (SF wasn't a branch), officers were awarded a "3" prefix I have no idea how long it was.
If I'm not mistaken there was an abbreviated OC for Medical Officers, Chaplains, ect since they weren't going to be leading A-teams.

If McDonald was SF Q'd his MOS would have a "3" prefix.. IE: 33100 (SF General Medical Officer).

I'm sure someone here would know who to contact at SWC to verify McDonald.

Dusty
11-01-2012, 16:30
I'm sure someone here would know who to contact at SWC to verify McDonald.

Let's wait to see if he gets cut loose, first. :D

Shiftee
11-01-2012, 21:14
Professor forwarded this to me today. From what he said it looks like a decision has not been made on a new trial but after reading the latest redacted decision I'd be surprised if he doesn't get one. Section II is pretty interesting. I wasn't previously aware that Former U.S. Marshall Britt's 2005 statement not only claimed that he heard Stoeckley confess that she was in the home, but that the lead prosecutor James Blackburn threatened her before testifying. The fact that Blackburn was later disbarred and indicted for multiple felonies, including forging judges signatures and lying to clients, only tends to make Britt's statements even more believable.

Redacted Decision
http://db.tt/McViNQy1

Disbarment
http://db.tt/WtMKxY1z

Leozinho
12-08-2012, 17:32
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/since-1979-brian-murtagh-has-fought-to-keep-convicted-murderer-jeffrey-macdonald-in-prison/2012/12/05/3c8bc1c6-2da8-11e2-89d4-040c9330702a_print.html

This article makes the case that MacDonald is guilty (and Errol Morris selectively omitted evidence in his book about the case.) It's an interesting read.

I wasn't previously aware that Former U.S. Marshall Britt's 2005 statement not only claimed that he heard Stoeckley confess that she was in the home, but that the lead prosecutor James Blackburn threatened her before testifying. The fact that Blackburn was later disbarred and indicted for multiple felonies, including forging judges signatures and lying to clients, only tends to make Britt's statements even more believable.

Redacted Decision
http://db.tt/McViNQy1

Disbarment
http://db.tt/WtMKxY1z

The article linked above discusses Britt's claim. There appears to be clear proof that Britt never transported Stoeckley and was lying.

Noah Werka
12-08-2012, 18:42
PM and I will tell you everything I have told to others. If any of youse guies were there in the 6th you may know what I will say. Nuttin' to hide. Done been told

Radar Rider
12-08-2012, 19:01
Four "drug deranged hippies" entered (the then open post) Fort Bragg, got into macdonald's house, and then slaughtered his family while leaving him with a scalpel wound in the chest?

The "hippies" killed the family, but left macdonald alive to call the MPs? It doesn't make sense, because it's all BS.

Jeffrey MacDonald killed his family, and is exactly where he should be until his miserable existence on this planet comes to an end.

Noah Werka
12-08-2012, 20:37
Here is the start, and off the top of my head(bits and pieces). More time = more remembrances.

If it is worth posting answers to any questions as to guilt or innocence, let me know and I will do my best to relate what I can remember.

I have my own opinion: he didn't do it. One big shuffle under.
The above will not be posted as it has no relevance to the below.

Thoughts welcome,

All coming off the top of my head.

The 3rd SFG had just been decommissioned and I was assigned to the 6th. I used to play basketball on the side. Somehow or another I ended up on the unofficial "6th Gp. basketball team". We used to meet at the "gym" behind the parade ground on Gruber Rd. every day, after duty, for practice. Capt. MacDonald was the "Team Doctor". He was there for the usual "Doc" type stuff...aches, pains, sprains. Seemed like a good guy. As far as qualifications, I don't know, but, he wore a full flash and wings.

Rumor had it that if one wanted a little "boost", he was the one to go to. Dunno nuttin' 'bout that...just rumors. Later on, I would learn more about that, but not just yet.

Moving down the timeline, I moved off post, with a couple of buddies, JD, and Howie, from the 6th, just off Chicken Rd. It was a neat little two bedroom house. Just across the dirt road was the fence that was the boundary to Bragg. I spent most of my time with my buddies from the 6th and 7th. Mostly just slept at the house. After while, figured out there was more to the house than I bargained for. People started coming over and it became obvious that more than just a little pot smoking was involved. Rumor was MacDonald was their source for pills and other stuff. Big time.

Moving on, some of the people visiting the house were some of the same people speculated to be involved...named in the MacDonald case: Helena Stokley, later found dead on the side of the road in SC. Eddie McDaniel, later found dead of a "drug overdose, was the Cumberland Co. Sheriff's son; Rocky Garcia, whose mother was a fairly well known local Psychic, fortune teller, and purveyor of the Occult; and Kathy Perry, a local hanger on.

I knew all of these people. The more they came to the house, the more I began to stay away, even though I still went over there occasionally. My buddy JD, had started banging Kathy Perry. The more she stayed at the house, the less I did. She eventually moved in with JD and I got the hell outta there for good. Back to the barracks. I dropped by every now and then to check on my buddies.

Rumors had it at the time, MacDonald was involved heavily in an "off the books" prescript drug trade. Take it from there.

The Murders

Known facts:

Wife Colette and children were killed by stab wounds.

Jeffery MacDonald, "claimed" there was an invasion of "hippies". Wearing wild makeup, and one wore a white "floppy" hat, a blonde wig and a black cape.

MacDonald survived the brutal attack with only superficial wounds. "Obviously", him being a surgeon, he would know how to stab himself with minimal damage.

Conclusion: Guilty


After the Murders:

Rumor control: he screwed somebody in a drug deal. That is why the attack on him and his family. They wanted to make sure he continued his role as a big time supplier. That is why he wasn't killed.

I was not living at the off post house at the time when my buddy JD was stabbed, shortly after the murders, in the back while sleeping by Kathy Perry. He ended up in the Infirmary for several days. Before he was stabbed, he found in a trunk a blonde wig, a white hat, and a black cape. It was the trunk Perry stored her stuff in at the house. He later told the Psychic and Occult leader Mrs. Garcia(Rocky Garcia's mother) about the find. No idea why he didn't go to the authorities.
He(JD) also found a phone book with numbers of direct lines to the Post commander at Bragg, head of the CID, and several mucky mucks in DC. He said he called all these numbers and they checked out. I have no idea as to what happened to that stuff he found. I know he said he found it all. I believed him because I had seen some of it after the fact. He nor anybody associated with that crowd was ever questioned about the murders.

20 years later:

I received an envelope in the mail(still have it somewhere) from a PI in California hired by MacDonald to investigate his case. It consisted of a bunch of photos of the people involved in the killings. I identified correctly three of the six photos he sent. And, I told him basically what you have read above. I never heard another word from him. If you add up what McDonald's story was and what I have related, I think there should be a lot of questions unanswered...

I have since found out that most all of the individuals directly involved, named above are dead, including my friend JD.
All within 15 years after the fact. Most in "Well, WTF" circumstances.

You take it from there.

Radar Rider
12-08-2012, 21:51
Exactly. MacDonald was all hopped up on goofballs when he killed his family.

viper.51
12-09-2012, 01:20
I did a case study on this case in the 80s as part of a Police Admin class. I remember that there was allot of information that came out on the first trail the court martial that set him free but ended his career. This is all from memory as well but stockley was stopped by an officer not far from the residence, supposidly wearing a white floppy hat. The problem with her testimony was when she was questioned she admitted to being on asid at the time and had no memory of the house or murders. After 8 hrs of questioning still under the influence of the asid she said she was in the house. Also if memory serves me right the crime scene was not protected very well and allot of people were let in before the CIS team arrived. The MPs accually made a pot of coffee and some personal items were stolen from the house by a amulance attendent. Some of the most damaging evidence came in the retrail brought by the wifes (collete's father. There where more than a few inconsistancies, the placement of the wound Mcdonald received was the exact location a chest tube would be placed under the arm. Mcdonald had no defensive wounds or bruising on his arms. In the living room were the fight with 3-5 people there was a row of holiday cards set up on top of the cabinet which were all standing and had not been touched. (during the walk thru of the house prior to the 2nd trial with the procicuting attorney collete's father simply jumped into the air in the middle of the room and all the cards fell over cause the cabinet wobled if you even walked by it). The most damaging was that the blood evidence when anylized was not consistant with 3-5 people moving around the house. they did not find any other tracks in the blood other than bare foot tracks consistant with mcdonald's foot. Collete's wounds were 40 + stab wounds to the chest. Mcdonalds story was that he wrapped his pajama top around his arm to fight the person with the knife and that was how the holes got in it. and he claimed that he tried to save collete and put his top on her chest and thats how the blood got on it. The top was on her chest when the EMS arrived but was removed and tossed to the side. The blood stains had started to harden. the shirt was bagged and sent to the lab were a tech mached the stains and dryed blood together by folding the top. when the stains lined up the pattern of holes matched the pattern of the wounds on collete's chest. Also when tested in the lab when the top was placed on a human like gel and stabbed it made straight punchure cuts. just like the actual top. and when wrapped and used in defence it cuased the holes to be tears not cuts. All of this is circumstantual evidence but when compiled at the second trail painted a pretty grim picture. you judge for yourself. I have no dog in the hunt either way. There was also some other evidence found in the house, a scalpel wrapper and the tip of a surgical glove was found on the bathroom sink drain. Thats all I have from memory.

Pete
08-25-2014, 05:47
Jeffrey MacDonald's lawyers cite criticism of investigator in seeking new trial

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/crime_courts/jeffrey-macdonald-s-lawyers-cite-criticism-of-investigator-in-seeking/article_8bda7a37-200b-5431-9ccf-10ffdda46617.html

".Lawyers for Jeffrey MacDonald are again seeking a new trial, citing new evidence that discredits a government witness.

In a motion filed last Thursday, MacDonald's lawyers argue that a judgment filed last month by a U.S. District Court judge should be amended based on a Department of Justice report released that same month...."

If he did if - and if he had admitted it years back - when could he have gotten out on parole, if he could?

The Reaper
08-25-2014, 11:22
A man who is convicted of stabbing his own wife and children to death is likely going to be LWOP at best, and will never be released.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

UWOA
08-25-2014, 19:50
I went through SFOC in 1970 about six months after the murders, and the homicides and McDonald were still a huge topic of conversation on post. But that was a weird time (at least through my eyes). You had senior SF NCOs picking up pine cones around the Center as they were the only one's available to do police call. Candy stripers (like me) were running around everywhere ... the Center and Hardy and Moon halls and a lot of other places. It was just weird.

It was pretty common knowledge at the time that "bennies" were in use to stretch the hours (a tactic employed in Viet Nam) ... and I can see where a physician might be prone to abuse stimulants to keep up ....

I think he's grasping at straws to get out from under. And yeah, I think he did it.

.

Trapper John
08-26-2014, 06:11
UWOA, Yeah I was there then too and followed the events in the Observer closely. I agree with your assessment. Although there were some questionable tactics used by the prosecution and the investigation of the crime scene was pretty sloppy, my Spidey sense was that McDonald was of questionable character. A bit too narcissistic and ego centric for my taste. I ran in to him a couple of times at Ft. Sam when he came down to our 300F1 class. I think the only reason he was there was to get drunk, do some whoring, and get a jump in. Not exactly a role model for us young impressionable troops. ;)

The Reaper
08-26-2014, 11:21
He wasn't convicted till 1977 or so.

He (and Joe McGinness) stayed in the frat house next to us on campus at NC State during his trial in Raleigh.

TR