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Sdiver
08-23-2012, 14:41
Gents,
Need some help ID-ing this snake.
It was found in the basement of a friend of mine who lives just south of me in Castle Rock (Between Denver and C. Springs).
She states that the snake was "Hissing and striking" at her this morning after she went downstaris.
I'm trying to get her to get a better picture, but was hoping that someone would be able to ID it with just these markings shown.
My limited knowledge and "google-fu" is showing that it could be a Western Massasauga ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massasauga

Thanks

SD

Dusty
08-23-2012, 15:00
No flippancy directed towards you or your friend, but-who cares as long as it's dead.

I kill snakes before they get a chance to be ID'd.

Sdiver
08-23-2012, 15:02
No flippancy directed towards you or your friend, but-who cares as long as it's dead.

Sir Dusty,

I quite agree with you and so does she. :D

tonyz
08-23-2012, 15:02
Some of those markings sure look like shovel or machete to me.

Sigaba
08-23-2012, 15:18
Sdiver--

FWIW, the Colorado Herpetological Society, home page here (http://www.coloherps.org/index.html), has a snake identification matrix located there (http://www.coloherps.org/index.html).

PedOncoDoc
08-23-2012, 15:23
Sdiver--

FWIW, the Colorado Herpetological Society, home page here (http://www.coloherps.org/index.html), has a snake identification matrix located there (http://www.coloherps.org/index.html).

Good find, but I don't think she wanted to take a good look at its anal scale (or scales) to make an ID at the time.

SF_BHT
08-23-2012, 15:27
It may be a bull snake? Might be easier if he was not hacked up by a hoe/shovel.

Sigaba
08-23-2012, 15:31
Good find, but I don't think she wanted to take a good look at its anal scale (or scales) to make an ID at the time.Sdiver could talk her into it by pointing out that reptilian patterns are fashionable this season.

Sdiver
08-23-2012, 15:34
It may be a bull snake? Might be easier if he was not hacked up by a hoe/shovel.

Thought about that as well, but the color looks a little lighter than the pics here .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullsnake

I've asked her if she has other pics, but as of now, it's a no-go.

PedOncoDoc
08-23-2012, 15:38
A quick look through a few sites and the coloraiton looks most consistent with a bull snake, a hognose snake or a glossy snake.

I'm no herpetologist, though. I stay away form the herpes as much as possible. :D

Guymullins
08-23-2012, 16:02
If it was Africa, I would say it was a juvenile Mole Snake and they way collectors bring exotic species into the States, it still may be. A Mole snakes head had a rounded snout for burrowing and quite small eyes. As it grows older, it becomes a more uniform russet brown, but as with most snakes, there are big geographical differences in coloring and that is why scale, head and fang identification is so important.

mojaveman
08-23-2012, 16:05
It's most important to try and identify a snake after you've been bitten by one so that emergency room doctors can decide what type of anti-venom to use.

Never seen one like yours though. Is it missing a rattle?

A few weeks ago I was out in the middle of the desert on a construction site and ran over a Western Diamondback that was easily six feet long. Afterwards I wished I would have taken it home because it would have made a nice skin.

Dusty
08-23-2012, 16:05
Yeah, well, it's a good snake, now.

Golf1echo
08-23-2012, 16:13
It looks like a dead snake......sorry couldn't help myself. I never saw a snake like that there in Colorado. Mostly racers, garters and rattle snakes from what I remember. I have had several experiences with aggressive snakes this time of year out in the West. Once a diamond back came out of the bush to our patio in Avra Valley out side of Tucson and began to rattle ferociously which we all found unusual... we figured maybe a mating behavior as they generally avoid human activity...it was just about this time of year that it happened ....it was tasty with a little butter and garlic and the skin was dried and rubbed with glycerin.

Richard
08-23-2012, 16:24
Looks like a dead Bull Snake to me.

Richard :munchin

mark46th
08-23-2012, 16:43
Yup. I'd say Bull Snake, They can get big, I have seen one down by the Colorado River (Blythe) over six feet long.

Ambush Master
08-23-2012, 18:18
For indigenous snakes here in the US, all but the Coral Snake have eyes that have eliptical pupils, like a cat, the Coral's eyes have round pupils like our's. All of the non venemous snakes also have round pupils.

I've caught and handled thousands if not 10s of thousands of snakes all over the US.

Later
Martin

Sdiver
08-23-2012, 18:35
Well, seems like the general agreement is that this DEAD snake is a Bull snake.

Appreciate it Gents.


For indigenous snakes here in the US, all but the Coral Snake have eyes that have elliptical pupils, like a cat, the Coral's eyes have round pupils like ours. All of the non venomous snakes also have round pupils.

I've caught and handled thousands if not 10s of thousands of snakes all over the US.

Later
Martin

Martin,

That is interesting. Those snakes that have the round pupils, do they have the same pupillary reaction to light as ours do or do the hunt much the same way as pit vipers do, by heat sensors?

PSM
08-23-2012, 19:00
For indigenous snakes here in the US, all but the Coral Snake have eyes that have eliptical pupils, like a cat, the Coral's eyes have round pupils like our's. All of the non venemous snakes also have round pupils.

I've caught and handled thousands if not 10s of thousands of snakes all over the US.

Later
Martin

My wife has a job for you; she's a rattler magnet. :D She had to shoot one that was near the back door and too close to the dog. Last week she found 3 in an hour. They got to live. I have yet to see one, except the one she shot (I was her RSO ;)). I'll tell her about the eye thing so she can get down and make sure it's a bad guy before she shoots it. :D

Pat

mark46th
08-23-2012, 19:15
PSM- Rattlesnakes weren't mentioned in the area study for your AO?

Dusty
08-23-2012, 19:16
I'll tell her about the eye thing so she can get down and make sure it's a bad guy before she shoots it. :D

Pat

That's back asswards.

PSM
08-23-2012, 19:47
PSM- Rattlesnakes weren't mentioned in the area study for your AO?

They were, it's just funny that my city-mouse wife seems to be finding them and I'm not. Scorpions seem to prefer me, though.

That's back asswards.

We need them to take care of the mouse invasion. She can't hit a mouse to save her life. :D (Any idea why she keeps seeing mice on my head? :confused:)

Pat

Dusty
08-23-2012, 19:58
They were, it's just funny that my city-mouse wife seems to be finding them and I'm not. Scorpions seem to prefer me, though.



We need them to take care of the mouse invasion. She can't hit a mouse to save her life. :D (Any idea why she keeps seeing mice on my head? :confused:)

Pat

I'd say get a cat, but I hate cats, too. :D

PSM
08-23-2012, 20:32
Irony of ironies, after my last post on the thread, I walked out back and found a D-Back just leaving the garden. I got my wife's LCR .38SP and 3 rounds of snake shot. By the time I got back outside, he was in the rough. I shot him three times since I really couldn't tell if I was hitting him. I was. I didn't have any hearing pro, though. When I talk, now, I have a bit of a ringing in both ears. :mad:

Pat

Kyobanim
08-23-2012, 21:34
Whatever type it is, it's a good snake now.

cetheridge
08-24-2012, 00:13
Two weeks ago, had a friend call me to remove a snake from an antique cupboard in his living room. I asked what kind of snake it was and he said, "How the hell do I know.... all I can tell you is that it is a f##king snake and I want it out of here".
When I arrived, there it was on the second shelf coiled up in the corner.... a nice sized Gray Rat snake about 4 1/2 feet long.
A Gray Rat snake is generally docile, but this one was pissed at being disturbed while I tried to remove it with a snake stick (Didn't want to mess up the cupboard by shooting it. :D). After it struck at me and the stick 3 times, I said "Okay Big Boy, now I'm pissed".
I dropped the stick on the floor, and with gloved hands, reached in and got me double handfull of snake and stuffed it in an old pillow case. Released it about a mile away in a field. All ended well.....friend had the snake removed without destroying the cupboard, I didn't get bit, and the snake lived.

2018commo
08-24-2012, 05:17
Looks like a Dinner Snake...

mark46th
08-24-2012, 09:19
PSM- We call them "Coontails" because of the black and white stripes just before the rattles... Looks like about the size of a hatband...

PSM
08-24-2012, 13:29
PSM- We call them "Coontails" because of the black and white stripes just before the rattles... Looks like about the size of a hatband...

That would be "cool". It is well ventilated. ;) Turkey vulture got it, though.

Pat

Barbarian
08-24-2012, 14:03
Looks like a Dinner Snake...

That was my thought.:lifter

Ambush Master
08-24-2012, 14:51
Well, seems like the general agreement is that this DEAD snake is a Bull snake.

Appreciate it Gents.




Martin,

That is interesting. Those snakes that have the round pupils, do they have the same pupillary reaction to light as ours do or do the hunt much the same way as pit vipers do, by heat sensors?

They have the same pupillary reaction as ours and none of the indigenous non poisonous snakes have any sort of IR Sensors but some Pythons and Boas do.

Buffalobob
08-26-2012, 19:04
after it struck at me and the stick 3 times, I said "Okay Big Boy, now I'm pissed".
I dropped the stick on the floor, and with gloved hands, reached in and got me double handfull of snake and stuffed it in an old pillow case. Released it about a mile away in a field. All ended well.....friend had the snake removed without destroying the cupboard, I didn't get bit, and the snake lived.

Nice story!

When I was a kid we hunted and killed snakes just for fun but as I got older and understood their function in life was mainly to eat small rodents and creatures I began letting them live. My son had a pet snake that got loose in the house and was not found for two years (dead under a carpet). It was just a little ringneck snake. We replaced it with an aquatic garter snake and an actual snake cage. We then had to start up an aquarium to keep the minnows for it to eat and every two weeks or so journey to the pet shop for more minnows.

alelks
08-26-2012, 19:12
A few years ago my wife went to get the mop off the back porch and sitting on top of it was a baby rattlesnake.

BigJimCalhoun
08-26-2012, 22:06
Gents,
Need some help ID-ing this snake.
It was found in the basement of a friend of mine who lives just south of me in Castle Rock (Between Denver and C. Springs).
She states that the snake was "Hissing and striking" at her this morning after she went downstairs.

uh-oh .... Any idea how it got in? We do have prairie rattlesnakes in the area and rat snakes, but I have not seen one like that.

No flippancy directed towards you or your friend, but-who cares as long as it's dead.
I do. I live there too :eek:

SLVGW360
08-26-2012, 22:53
Sure looks like a Bull Snake. They coil up and hiss, just like a rattlesnake does when rattling. The hiss sounds very much like rattling. If she did not see rattles then that is most assuredly what this critter was.

Even as a trained bi-golly-gist, I don't like snakes either. Some are fascinating creatures, but I'd be happy not seeing them most of the time. We have quite a few rattlers in my country. Bull snakes seem to be more numerous where the two species co-exist.

cetheridge
08-26-2012, 23:05
Nice story!

Thanks! I've never been afraid of snakes, but I damn sure respect them. When I worked as a Park Ranger, I was the person called to remove snakes, Copperheads and Rattlers mainly, from campsites. Got a lot of stories.
Favorite one is when my partner and I were on boat patrol and saw a Timber Rattler swimming across a narrow part of the lake. As we pulled along side of it, I used a boat hook to flip it into the boat with us. Imagine the surprise to my partner. :D
While the snake and I were dancing around the open bow of the boat, it striking at me while I deflected blows with the boat hook (quite an adrenaline rush!), my partner was standing on the console, holding on to the windshield yelling "You stupid SOB, if that snake bites me, I'm going to kill both of you". When I finally got it pinned down, I stuck my knife in it's head (didn't want cut the head off and mess up the total skin) and it went limp. Threw it in the live well (to take it home to skin it). Partner still screaming "You stupid SOB!" over and over.
Several hours later when we returned to the boathouse, he raised the well to remove the "dead rattler", and to his amazement (and mine) it was coiled and alive....he slammed the lid down and said "You can get that f##king snake yourself, you crazy SOB".
Still have the skin at home. :lifter
He and I are both retired now...had lunch together last week and laughed about that episode.....:)

SOF_VET
08-27-2012, 22:37
Although I too am not a herpetologist, I concur that it most likely was a bull snake.

This thread reminded me of lessons learned at Ft. Huachuca, where horses were getting snapped at by Western Diamondbacks regularly. This is the end result of one that actually connected.;) For the curious 18Ds, you'll recognize that those are ET tubes maintaining his airway; however, an equine specific trach tube would have been a better choice in retrospect. They are fairly straight forward to place and maintain. Anyone living in AZ have any experiences with Mojave rattlesnakes?

Cheers,

Dale

Golf1echo
08-28-2012, 11:25
Although I too am not a herpetologist, I concur that it most likely was a bull snake.

This thread reminded me of lessons learned at Ft. Huachuca, where horses were getting snapped at by Western Diamondbacks regularly. This is the end result of one that actually connected.;) For the curious 18Ds, you'll recognize that those are ET tubes maintaining his airway; however, an equine specific trach tube would have been a better choice in retrospect. They are fairly straight forward to place and maintain. Anyone living in AZ have any experiences with Mojave rattlesnakes?

Cheers,

Dale

That was interesting to search the Mojave, I did not realize those differences. One year in High School was in Kingman, AZ where one of my friends made a nice income from trapping and from the occasional snake skins, I'll bet he would know about those differences and the aggressiveness in particular. Many of the Rattlers I ever saw were along that Southern Boarder in the Sanora Desert, to include some of the ranges near Ft. Huachuca Most Rattle snake encounters I have had here in WNC have been on the docile side, probably moisture and cooler temps? They do seek high ground and have observed them waiting under berry bushes in ambush...I can tell you the few I have seen , to include one within 6" of my wiggling Teva encased toes, never made a sound.

The first Corn Snake I saw alarmed me, it looks a little like the one in the first post but with bright orange coloring...they are harmless.

mark46th
08-28-2012, 11:48
That horse is not feeling well...

PSM
08-28-2012, 12:09
Anyone living in AZ have any experiences with Mojave rattlesnakes?

Cheers,

Dale

My wife volunteers at The San Pedro House across the river from us. A couple of weeks ago they found three of them staying cool under the brush. One of the other women picked one up with a hula-hoe and moved it to a more "convenient" location. They didn't live up to their rumored "aggressive" nature.

Pat

mark46th
08-28-2012, 13:53
There are 2 different types of Mojave rattler that I have seen, the Mojave Red, and Mojave Green. Both tend to be more slender than the coontail... I haven't had any problems with either, just give them their space...

Ambush Master
08-28-2012, 15:39
We've got the Mojavie Greens in far west Texas and they are very deadly. The Greens have an extremely potent neurotoxic venom.

mojaveman
08-28-2012, 19:16
We've got the Mojavie Greens in far west Texas and they are very deadly. The Greens have an extremely potent neurotoxic venom.

Correct, and if I got my information right the Mojave Green was one of the last rattlesnakes that medical companies were able to develope an anti-venom for. It is also one of the most expensive.

Another point about venomous rattlers is that they don't always rattle before striking.

Divemaster
08-28-2012, 19:39
Like many have said, this looks like a bull/gopher snake to me. Many subspecies with a wide distribution across the western states.