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elkhunter
08-17-2012, 18:53
Is it possible to get an 18x contract with a rod and screws in my Tibia as long as it is completely healed up and causes no complications?

Eagle5US
08-17-2012, 19:00
Have you looked in AR 40-501?

elkhunter
08-17-2012, 19:10
I just read it thank you very much sir.

Eagle5US
08-17-2012, 19:17
No Sweat.:cool:

Zerekoh
08-17-2012, 20:14
Retained hardware with no complication is not a problem for joining the Army. Eagle edit.

Dmh1111
03-15-2013, 11:46
Well I know this is an old thread but I figured I'd better not start a new one because my question relates. I broke my ankle back in 06 and had to have surgery. They put a screw in and it's still in. The doctor completely cleared me and I've ran marathons and done triathlons on this ankle and if this scare wasn't there you would never even know that I broke it. Now I'm in a situation, because I want Special Operations, and I prefer Army over Navy. I have talked to a Navy recruiter and Army recruiter about Special Operations. I've taken my ASVAB already through the Navy Recruiter, but still with Army in the back of my head I keep going back to the recruiter. Well he told me there is no way he can guarantee Special Forces in my contract because the screw. But Navy's policy on this is a little different.
In AR 40-501 5-3 (9)Retained hardware that is integral to maintaining fixation or stability, or presents a risk to mobility or a risk of further injury by its presence. This is the line that is killing my hopes of getting 18x in my contract. But I'm analyzing this sentence and its not very specific. Let say my doctor rights a letter that says the hardware isn't maintaining fixation or stability to the ankle and isn't presenting any risk to mobility or future injuries? Will this at least increase the chance that the Doc at MEPS will overlook the surgery? If so this will mean I don't need a Medical waiver? This is what I want so bad and if there is a way I can get around this and guarantee me a chance to try for Special Forces then I will do whatever it takes. Thank you in advance to the replies.

The Reaper
03-15-2013, 18:45
Well I know this is an old thread but I figured I'd better not start a new one because my question relates. I broke my ankle back in 06 and had to have surgery. They put a screw in and it's still in. The doctor completely cleared me and I've ran marathons and done triathlons on this ankle and if this scare wasn't there you would never even know that I broke it. Now I'm in a situation, because I want Special Operations, and I prefer Army over Navy. I have talked to a Navy recruiter and Army recruiter about Special Operations. I've taken my ASVAB already through the Navy Recruiter, but still with Army in the back of my head I keep going back to the recruiter. Well he told me there is no way he can guarantee Special Forces in my contract because the screw. But Navy's policy on this is a little different.
In AR 40-501 5-3 (9)Retained hardware that is integral to maintaining fixation or stability, or presents a risk to mobility or a risk of further injury by its presence. This is the line that is killing my hopes of getting 18x in my contract. But I'm analyzing this sentence and its not very specific. Let say my doctor rights a letter that says the hardware isn't maintaining fixation or stability to the ankle and isn't presenting any risk to mobility or future injuries? Will this at least increase the chance that the Doc at MEPS will overlook the surgery? If so this will mean I don't need a Medical waiver? This is what I want so bad and if there is a way I can get around this and guarantee me a chance to try for Special Forces then I will do whatever it takes. Thank you in advance to the replies.

I highly doubt that they are going to waive your hardware right now for SF service.

You can always ask, but I am pretty sure the answer is going to be no.

TR

Dmh1111
03-15-2013, 20:10
Understood thanks for the reply, I guess my next question is do I just enlist 11x and do a few years in conventional Army and put in a package for SFAS later on? Is that the best option for me? I most likely will still throw the question out there to the MEPS Doc because at that point I really have nothin to loose. I know you guys don't like giving options but I think I just need some reassurance that going enlisted 11x can be just as good of an option.

The Reaper
03-15-2013, 20:14
Understood thanks for the reply, I guess my next question is do I just enlist 11x and do a few years in conventional Army and put in a package for SFAS later on? Is that the best option for me? I most likely will still throw the question out there to the MEPS Doc because at that point I really have nothin to loose. I know you guys don't like giving options but I think I just need some reassurance that going enlisted 11x can be just as good of an option.

Nothing wrong with being an 11B, but the approving authority (SWCS Surgeon, IIRC) will still have to sign a waiver for your SF training.

TR

MR2
03-15-2013, 20:18
Dean, draw-downs tend to last only for a few years. I expect this one to last longer. Yet there is the constant call to expand SOF and especially SF.

There are many ways to serve and they all provide good life experience.

Regardless if you are permanently barred from SF due to a physical condition, you can always support in other SOF type units such as Rangers, Psyops, and/or MI.

Good luck in your decision.

Dmh1111
03-15-2013, 20:56
Yes I agree 11b isn't bad, but I'm sure you guys would agree that when your minds set on something nothing else sounds as good. Not to mention if I'm permanently disbarred from SF due to physically standards, it means I'm disbarred from Airborne/ Rangers ect.. Is it true, once your in the big Army the policies are different because the Soldier has proven himself physically; meaning the AR 40-501 isn't looked at as strictly once enlisted? Or am I way off bases here?It says on the sorbrec website:

The following criteria is required for all applicants (officers and enlisted):

Must be able to meet medical fitness standards as outlined in AR 40-501.

This means I'm still not eligible for training even as enlisted just to clarify where I found the information.

Dozer523
03-16-2013, 08:34
...

You're absolutely right.

Eagle5US
03-16-2013, 10:21
While I am absolutely certain that Dozer isn't advocating you conceal or falsify your medical condition for the purposes of enlistment, I will say that if the screw serves no purpose, perhaps your Orthopod would consider removing it?

Once removed, it becomes "historical medical data" as your hardware is no longer retained. This is looked at differently than indwelling hardware.
Should your screw remain, and it break while doing a ruck march, become dislodged, or otherwise cause pain or limit your mobility while putting your body through the unique paces of training, it may cause you a more permanent type of disability.

AR 40-501 is not looked at any less stringently for those already in the service. Quite simply, the standards for RETENTION are different than the standards for ACCESSION.

For example, you cannot get INTO flight school unless you do not wear glasses. Once you COMPLETE flight training, if you NEED glasses then that is OK. I have rods and screws in my knee and ankle. I couldn't have passed various physicals for some of the training I already had if my surgeries were PRIOR TO me attending those schools...but since I am already qualified, the standard for RETENTION in those capacities is different.

I hope this hasn't muddled the water any for you - TR is absolutely correct in that it will be the SWC SGN's office that will make any waiver decision for SF training. ABN and RGR are different SGN's Offices altogether.

I strongly advise you to NOT conceal your condition - should you fracture that same ankle (jump school / ABN OP at the unit / step in a hole at SFAS) or should the screw break (yes - this happens) and the next sentence is "Hey! Look at that screw! Why didn't we know about that?" - you will more than likely be responsible for the cost of your medical care and will not be entitled to any disability compensation fr your injury, in addition to opening yourself up to prosecution for falsifying your enlistment. Remember, it is YOUR SIGNATURE on your enlistment documents validating that the information you provide is true and accurate.

How much is your word worth to you...

Dmh1111
03-16-2013, 11:55
Thank you for the reply, that did at least change my outlook as to how I'm going to approach this issue. I haven't really considered removing the screw. I can't remember exactly what my orthopod said if anything about removing the screw. I run marathons on my ankle and this ankle has never given me any problem. Well until now that is. But I'm not in any immediate rush to getting a contract and shipping out. So it's something I would like to consult my orthopod about. Does anyone know how these procedures work?

My issue with this now is I have heard you need a 1111111 rating at MEPS to be considered for 18x program. Well this is what my recruiter has told me. Is a broken bone that required surgery going to change a one to a two? Even if that retained hardware was removed? I'm not sure how it works and at what point they start to having to fill out waivers. I would prefer it if I didn't have any waivers at all medically.

I have no intention of lying about any medical recordsI have had. I have only had two injuries. My ankle break and a shoulder injury, but the shoulder injury was just a little tear that I did some physical therapy and was a hundred percent good three weeks later. I would rather just give them all my information just to reduce any issue in my time in the Army.

I'm a little curious what MR2 was saying about draw-downs. Are these medical procedures that are currently in place at USAREC a way of limiting the amount of personnel that joins the Army? Looking at the date in the AR 40-501 it's latest update was 2011?

Eagle5US
03-16-2013, 13:22
Your PULHES rating of all 1's (or the "picket fence") is what is required for the 18X program. A broken bone would not preclude you to anything specific in your PULHES, nor does retained hardware. Fact is that for MOST enlistment choices, you must have all 1's, otherwise you would be entering the service with a permanent limitation to your assignment capability.

If the screw currently "serves no purpose", you can request a consultation with your Orthopod either directly or through your insurance / primary care doctor to see if they would remove it. This is usually not a "big" deal. Many screws serve their purpose in the civilian sector and remain in because it costs money to take them out and there is really no benefit (or need) to remove them.

Running marathons on it NOW is great - all things mechanical wear over time...the question becomes if you will be able to ruck "X" miles with it, over uneven terrain, carrying "X" pounds of team gear in 5-10 years.

The military is looking for any and all excuses to be choosy over who they let in right now. After the requirement for the "surge troops" expired, they looked / are looking at thinning the active duty force for things as small as tattoos that people were granted waivers for in order to enlist. It is a sign of the (current) times and administration.

As was previously mentioned, this one will probably last a bit longer than the last "no money fiasco" under Clinton.

Dmh1111
03-16-2013, 13:55
Okay so really my issue is getting a waiver for retained hardware for requirements relating to the SF, Ranger, Airborne in the AR 40-501? There is no waivers being granted right now for any medical conditions. So getting the hardware removed will significantly increase my chances of joining under an 18x program? Or are we looking at a very slight chance that even after getting the hardware removed I'm still going to be DQ'd initially? Then once in and E4 rating I won't have issues with the AR 40-501 because the hardware is removed.

Well I would really hope 5-10 years from now my body won't be failing on me. I mean I'll be early 30's. But I like to think I take care of my body. I guess time can only tell with that. My doctor said I will have no problems with it, but that's just words.

I guess it's just my luck I am the age I am during such a hard time with the budget cuts and sequestration. I am just trying to stay positive here and find a alternate route. This is something I've wanted to do for such a long time. I never would have thought that I may never get a chance at trying for Special Forces because I broke my ankle playing kick ball in high school. :(

Dmh1111
03-21-2013, 13:04
I'm updating my status on this topic. I went to see my orthopedic doctor about removing my screw. He will do it with no issues or complications at all. X-Ray came up looking really good. I will schedule my removal soon.

I called my recruiter to let him know what I was doing. He got a little pissed of because how persistent I am about getting an 18x contract. He said, " I told you you can't get it in your initial contact." He said "you are a medical waiver and that means you won't get it, I will give you a 11x contract and you can try for SF later." My question is why am I a medical waiver? I have no retained hardware any more and I was cleared by my doctor? Why would I still need a waiver to join the military?

Eagle5US
03-21-2013, 13:16
Sounds like your recruiter "needs" more 11 series contracts.
I would give the SF recruiting team at Bragg a call. There is nothing that says you have to use one recruiter over another.
Get your screw removed, call the recruiting folks at Bragg, and move forward from there.
Though not ALL stories you hear about self serving recruiters are true, it has been my experience that many I them are. Yours appears to want to "put you where he needs you" vs where you want (and may be qualified) to go. His needs over your wants kinda thing.

Good luck on whichever path you choose. Either way, I'd have the screw removed, do PT and discover if you have any limitations, then move forward accordingly.

Dmh1111
03-21-2013, 13:36
Okay, will do. I actually gave Bragg a call today and the person that answered said we don't do civilian stuff so I don't know anything about "my issue."So they weren't much of a help. If I where to call Bragg again any advise as to what I say to them? To maybe get a better response or Talk to someone who may be able to help.

Yes it does seem he wants me to go 11 series isn't really trying to help me at all. To be frank it doesn't seem like he give a damn either way.

As for your last advice I completely agree.

Peregrino
03-21-2013, 21:57
Sounds like you need to shop for a different recruiter. He probably doesn't need to "give a damn". The Army is drawing down, quotas aren't what they were even last month. You will have to be proactive and look around to find a recruiter who will be interested in you vs. quota. FWIW - SORB (Special Operations Recruiting Battalion) can't help you (directly). They only do in-service recruiting.