View Full Version : SWJ and the tea party insurgency
Mr Furious
08-08-2012, 13:19
OK, I get that it's a scenario and they are trying to convey their point. I think they could have used Pineland or something else and ruffled a few less feathers with this.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/full-spectrum-operations-in-the-homeland-a-%E2%80%9Cvision%E2%80%9D-of-the-future
Streck-Fu
08-08-2012, 13:45
That's pretty scary....
While mainstream politicians and citizens react with alarm, the “tea party” insurrectionists in South Carolina enjoy a groundswell of support from other tea party groups, militias, racist organizations such as the Ku Klux Klan, anti-immigrant associations such as the Minutemen, and other right-wing groups.
What the .....:rolleyes:
Given the research interests of Professor Weber, (http://smallwarsjournal.com/author/jennifer-weber) it may well be that the focus of the scenario is South Carolina and not the TPM.
Streck-Fu
08-08-2012, 14:01
and not the TPM.
Then why make them the principle actors and use language that equates them with the KKK, racists, and anti-immigrant groups while refering to others as 'mainstream'.....?
Badger52
08-08-2012, 14:02
OK, I get that it's a scenario and they are trying to convey their point. I think they could have used Pineland or something else and ruffled a few less feathers with this.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/full-spectrum-operations-in-the-homeland-a-%E2%80%9Cvision%E2%80%9D-of-the-futureIt certainly provoked discussion. They, at once, show their (perhaps) misjudgment of how many view the moniker "tea party" (capitalized or not) - and throw a potential boomerang bone to those who might find use for it in the next few months.
The scenario is hardly original; probably at least a handful of fairly current fiction pieces use that as their basis, with varying results depending upon which OPFOR is made the prime villain. I suspect the novels sell better too.
Then there are the threat-liaison officers, trained at sessions with their .gov and .mil Anti-Terrorism counterparts, with DHS and DSCA money, then sent forth, collecting on US persons & reporting to fusion centers...
So mix a borrowed basic story-board, add some MIL-approved methodology, pick a current ankle-biter (yeah, like OWS is gonna militarize themselves) and, voila!
Can you picture such a thing featuring an overtly armed and militant group such as OWS?
OK, sorry I didn't mean to insult; how about the NBP party?
The authors would probably find they can't get their parking stub validated anymore.
There does appear to be an increase of training within the civilian population, even though there many mock cities available on bases throughout the US. As for whom is they target.....if they had chosen CAIR or the NBPP rather than the Tea Party people would have thrown a fit.
Streck-Fu
08-08-2012, 14:19
The responses on SWJ are interesting...
Inflexible Six
08-08-2012, 14:36
I vote Sarah Palin as CINC of insurgent forces. :cool:
Streck-Fu
08-08-2012, 14:37
...with a man wearing a tricorn hat and carrying a musket over the motto “Today’s Minutemen.” When a reporter asked the leaders who are the “red coats”
Taking a swipe at Apple Seed Project?
Then why make them the principle actors and use language that equates them with the KKK, racists, and anti-immigrant groups while refering to others as 'mainstream'.....?
My thoughts, exactly. Is she veiling a suggestion that these groups are flying a false flag through the TPM?
A good way to find out is to go to the source.
http://www.history.ku.edu/~history/faculty/weber/
(Keep in mind that an Americanist, regardless of his/her political POV, is likely to have a much different take on the TPM than its supporters if not also its critics.)
Streck-Fu
08-08-2012, 14:57
(Keep in mind that an Americanist, regardless of his/her political POV, is likely to have a much different take on the TPM than its supporters if not also its critics.)
You are going to have to explain that...
Is an Americanist one whom maintains that the union is absolute and cannot be fractured?
Edit: Ok, I looked into her book Copperheads....she is defineatly a 'preserve the nation at all costs' historian.
You are going to have to explain that...
Is an Americanist one whom maintains that the union is absolute and cannot be fractured?
An Americanist is an academic historian who focuses on America's past and the historiography thereof. Historians who focus on Europe are Europeanists, (and historians who focus on naval and military affairs are SOL-oists. But I'm not bitter.)
:(
Okay. Maybe I'm a little bitter.
According to the premise that builds up to the movement and insurection, all the "ingredients" are there and in place. Really all that need be done is to understand that part of the equation and for us as a country to choose not to go down that path to begin with, kind of difuse things before they ever get that far. Take the needed steps to make sure those resulting actions do not occour.
Unless of course this is a road that many believe will be travelled at some point, and this type of training is about things that may be comming down the pipeline. If that is the case, the approach to this scenario is highly motivated in fear.
One thing that is not mentioned is the interconectedness we all share as a society, and with our troops. Many of them are constantly in touch with family and friends back home, and at times on a daily basis. "Sympathizers" would be high in numbers, IMHO.
So, in addition to the premise mentioned above that fires this insurection, communications would need to be controlled and censored to a fine degree, and the less communication the more society is separated and isolated, and that would probably just about create the kinds of circumstances required in this scenario for this type of training.
Kevin Benson, Ph.D., Colonel, U.S. Army, Retired, Asshat
"Oh man I don't like Officers" Oddball Kelly's Heroes
Blue
Inflexible Six
08-09-2012, 02:01
If we are to fight our own citizens in the streets someday, a far more realistic scenario might be an insurrection by a Marxist rabble incited by class-envy and greed, with its origins in the Occupy Movement, with the forcible redistribution of wealth as the object; to be joined by the disaffected everywhere, hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens, radical environmentalists, gays, anarchists, students, aided and abetted by millions who might sieze the opportunity to riot for fun and plunder. I can even fit the TPM types into this if you like, not as insurgents, but as organizing self-defense groups at the outset and later as counter-revolutionaries.
If the authors of this SWJ piece had bothered to exercise some rational thought, they would've discovered that historically the Left is far more prone to large scale civil disorder and insurrection than the Conservative Right, which tends to be supportive of law and order.
miclo18d
08-09-2012, 05:52
If we are to fight our own citizens in the streets someday, a far more realistic scenario might be an insurrection by a Marxist rabble incited by class-envy and greed, with its origins in the Occupy Movement, with the forcible redistribution of wealth as the object; to be joined by the disaffected everywhere, hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens, radical environmentalists, gays, anarchists, students, aided and abetted by millions who might sieze the opportunity to riot for fun and plunder. I can even fit the TPM types into this if you like, not as insurgents, but as organizing self-defense groups at the outset and later as counter-revolutionaries.
If the authors of this SWJ piece had bothered to exercise some rational thought, they would've discovered that historically the Left is far more prone to large scale civil disorder and insurrection than the Conservative Right, which tends to be supportive of law and order.
Sort of a reverse Colombia. A fundamentally transformed Constitution to a Marxist/Maoist Gov't, OWS/Criminal/Fringe Right Wing groups as Insurgents/warlords, and TP/Constitutionalists as Autodefensas. It would quickly devolve into a full blown civil war. Not pretty.
The other scary thing is we QPs would be the first on the Black Lists.
If we are to fight our own citizens in the streets someday, a far more realistic scenario might be an insurrection by a Marxist rabble incited by class-envy and greed, with its origins in the Occupy Movement, with the forcible redistribution of wealth as the object; to be joined by the disaffected everywhere, hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens, radical environmentalists, gays, anarchists, students, aided and abetted by millions who might sieze the opportunity to riot for fun and plunder. I can even fit the TPM types into this if you like, not as insurgents, but as organizing self-defense groups at the outset and later as counter-revolutionaries.
If the authors of this SWJ piece had bothered to exercise some rational thought, they would've discovered that historically the Left is far more prone to large scale civil disorder and insurrection than the Conservative Right, which tends to be supportive of law and order.
MI: Communists, Big Labor, globalists…those factions have infiltrated the U.S. military. They are not running the U.S. military. That is a distinction of epic proportions. You may not fully appreciated the difference but in my world – all due respect…in my world…BIG DIFFERENCE.
That is tin foil from the Ulsterman, but it might contain a hint of truth.
The authors may believe this warped work of theirs is rational thought and they truly believe the TPM is a grave threat to national security or their control is necessary to advance an agenda they are part of. The TPTB in DC lean way to the left and their Continuity of Government plans would likely lean way left as well. The DHS and DOJ propaganda has followed this same theme since 2009 and it should be no surprise that the .MIL would follow suit.
One must also keep in mind that is very likely that Left Wing Radicals in every branch of government, including the military who are likely diametrically opposed to the way you think.
People need to lose the idea of 'It can't happen in America'.
Policy and government changes happen all over the world, we have seen quite a few in the last 3 years and there is no reason to think the USA is immune to the same maladies that effect the rest of the world.
Oath Keepers to Place Billboard Outside Ft. Leavenworth to Protest Small Wars Journal Article Demonizing Tea Party as Future “Enemy” of U.S. Military
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/billboard/
ZonieDiver
10-11-2012, 09:15
Oh, come on! Keep the tinfoil on your heads, and off your eyes and out of your ears!
If I were to hypothesize who might be able to attempt armed insurrection in the USA, and keep my hypothetical at least even somewhat believable, which of these groups would I choose to be the insurrectionists:
Tea Party Movement types - who probably HAVE weapons, are able to use them, as well as the 'cojones' to do so... or,
Left-Wing pussies exemplified by the REI-equipped 'Occupy' boys and girls... who don't like weapons, would point the RPG-launcher the wrong way, and would rather pontificate and urge others to take up arms rather than get off their asses and storm the barricades themselves?????
I'd go for realism, but that's just me
Pericles
10-12-2012, 13:53
Oh, come on! Keep the tinfoil on your heads, and off your eyes and out of your ears!
If I were to hypothesize who might be able to attempt armed insurrection in the USA, and keep my hypothetical at least even somewhat believable, which of these groups would I choose to be the insurrectionists:
Tea Party Movement types - who probably HAVE weapons, are able to use them, as well as the 'cojones' to do so... or,
Left-Wing pussies exemplified by the REI-equipped 'Occupy' boys and girls... who don't like weapons, would point the RPG-launcher the wrong way, and would rather pontificate and urge others to take up arms rather than get off their asses and storm the barricades themselves?????
I'd go for realism, but that's just me
Yeah, but if the guys who actually know how to do these things went after it, the guys in the 5 sided rat cage would find that just about every unit available was tasked with Force Protection of the DC area, Lake City Ammunition Plant, the Anniston Depot, PANTXEX plant:eek:, and so on, with no units available to assist state and local government.
Insurgency on your own home turf is a whole new world.
BTW, I was stationed in Erlangen at the same time then MAJ Benson was. He was unusual even then.