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Prototype
06-04-2012, 12:29
Quiet Professionals,

I've been reading the forum as well as SOCnet in order to learn about SF and have encountered a bit of a puzzle.

An SF Soldier has a clearly varied skill set allowing them to undertake a wide variety of operations ranging from DA to FID.

Many posts will indicate, though, that an SF soldier on an ODA is a "shooter" first and foremost before they are anything else (not unlike other SOF units). Their MOS will indicate what skills they possess in addition to that.

Another post indicated the opposite and stated that an SF soldier has a variety of skills and that shooting is an important of it but they are much more skilled at teaching.

Another QP stated that SF soldiers can do what members of any other SOF unit can do and that this may lead to people believing that they are a "Jack of All Trades, Master of None" and that this is not necessarily true but did not elaborate further.

So, which one of these statements is correct? Maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong viewpoint and all of them could be correct as I have seen a QP note that each ODA is different from the other and so each of these statements is correct in a way as the QPs had a different set of experiences.

Regards,
P

Richard
06-04-2012, 13:04
Yes.

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

head
06-04-2012, 14:04
Yes.



I concur.

1stindoor
06-04-2012, 14:06
I was going to say "usually," but "yes" suffices.

Dozer523
06-04-2012, 14:06
I like the "teacher" part but you better be able to shoot if you want to teach later. And I've always felt pretty comfortable around the various SF MOS's doing thier jobs, expertly.
I never liked that "Jack of All Trades; Master of None" crap. Seemed like I heard it mostly from people who didn't want to take the time/exert the effort to become a Master.

Quiet Professionals don't let a little thing like ignorance get in the way.

Battalion Commander gave a team a mission in a far away place with a short lead time. Someone ventured the assessment of "ah Sir, I don't think we actually know how to work those things . . .
LTC pointed out, "Ya'll can READ, right? Ya'll gonna be on a plane for 16 hours." As a matter of fact everyone could read and 16 hours is plenty of time to figure out how to operate something and rehearse and rehearse and rehearse. . .
When it's needed now, it doesn't have to be perfect it has to be right. And that is NOT being a Jack of All Trades, Master of None"

greenberetTFS
06-04-2012, 14:11
I like the "teacher" part but you better be able to shoot if you want to teach later. And I've always felt pretty comfortable around the various SF MOS's doing thier jobs, expertly.
I never liked that "Jack of All Trades; Master of None" crap. Seemed like I heard it mostly from people who didn't want to take the time/exert the effort to become a Master.

Quiet Professionals don't let a little thing like ignorance get in the way.

Battalion Commander gave a team a mission in a far away place with a short lead time. Someone ventured the assessment of "ah Sir, I don't think we actually know how to work those things . . .
LTC pointed out, "Ya'll can READ, right? Ya'll gonna be on a plane for 16 hours." As a matter of fact everyone could read and 16 hours is plenty of time to figure out how to operate something and rehearse and rehearse and rehearse. . .
When it's needed now, it doesn't have to be perfect it has to be right. And that is NOT being a Jack of All Trades, Master of None"

"Yes".......;) :D

Big Teddy :munchin

bubba
06-04-2012, 15:50
An ODA is 12 guys that can (and often do) any damn thing!

MR2
06-04-2012, 16:25
A deliberate set of highly trained individuals capable of working together as a team in remote, varied, and austere environments with or without other forces to accomplish missions of national and strategic import.

:lifter

Richard
06-04-2012, 16:32
I never liked that "Jack of All Trades; Master of None" crap.

We used to claim "A Jack of all trades; a master of some." ;)

Richard :munchin

head
06-04-2012, 16:47
Masters of whatever trade is needed at the time.

Dusty
06-04-2012, 17:40
Masters of whatever trade is needed at the time.

That's it right there.

Adaptable to any environment, situation or skill required as a team alone, with a trained ancillary force or one that must be trained to accomplish a given mission.

Destrier
06-04-2012, 17:53
The kinda skill-set / mind-set possessed by Rowan. Yes.

Ret10Echo
06-04-2012, 19:16
Given your three possible choices, which we will call options A, B and C....

We choose "D"

longrange1947
06-04-2012, 19:22
The problem here is that no individual is a master of all, thus we have team. Of which, all the skill sets come together in a cohesive group of motivated individuals with the mind set to do just about anything. The team can be broken into 2 six man, 3 four man, or even 4 three man. Each division slightly diminishes the whole but with proper planning by team daddy and leader the objective will easily be met.

If the mission requires a shooter skill set then the team can do it. If the mission is UW/FID then the team can do it through the ability to teach. While each individual in the team cannot do it all the team as a whole can do most if not all.

Too much emphasis on individual, SF is based on the team, the ODA, the A Team, not the individual.

MOO, and my 2 cents on this one. :munchin

Dragbag036
06-05-2012, 04:57
Don’t Let the Perfect be the Enemy of the Good – Voltaire

DB

Dozer523
06-05-2012, 06:29
yes

Prototype
06-05-2012, 08:24
Now I understand it now is that an SF soldier and, more importantly, an ODA will adapt to any given situation and pick up the needed skills accordingly. Allowing them to do whatever they need to to complete an objective.

Thus, the question of shooting vs. teaching is moot as an ODA will complete the objective, regardless.

Thank you for the replies, everybody.

The Reaper
06-05-2012, 17:40
How can you teach a topic, if you are not proficient in it yourself, grasshopper?

TR

Richard
06-05-2012, 18:04
Our 'mindset' was "I read the book and saw the movie...I can do it!" ;)

Richard :munchin

Destrier
06-05-2012, 21:18
Our 'mindset' was "I read the book and saw the movie...I can do it!" ;)

Richard :munchin


Now a days Richard wrote the book and produced the movie.

Prototype
06-06-2012, 08:44
How can you teach a topic, if you are not proficient in it yourself, grasshopper?

TR

I was asking myself the same question earlier, but it has since been cleared up for me as a result of this thread.

It is interesting to note, though, that it was a QP that said SF soldiers are better at teaching something than they are at doing it themselves. That's really what puzzled me the most.

Dusty
06-06-2012, 08:54
I was asking myself the same question earlier, but it has since been cleared up for me as a result of this thread.

It is interesting to note, though, that it was a QP that said SF soldiers are better at teaching something than they are at doing it themselves. That's really what puzzled me the most.

The only sense I can make of that is-since it's a given that the SF Instructor has to be an expert in whatever subject he teaches in order to do so-the instruction itself generates an exponential increase in force for the host. In that aspect, the bloc of instruction is actually better than just having one Green Beret around.

Prototype
06-06-2012, 10:52
The only sense I can make of that is-since it's a given that the SF Instructor has to be an expert in whatever subject he teaches in order to do so-the instruction itself generates an exponential increase in force for the host. In that aspect, the bloc of instruction is actually better than just having one Green Beret around.

That's not what he seemed to be saying but it may have been what he meant to say but simply didn't necessarily word it correctly.

I've been trying to find the post but its quite difficult to pinpoint one post with keywords such as "teaching" and "Special Forces" on a SOCnet.

If I find it, I'll post it here.

None the less, I received the answer to my question. :)

greenberetTFS
06-06-2012, 11:26
Young Tiger

I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver

SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney

Words of wisdom from the best of the best.......;) :D :cool:

Big Teddy :munchin

Pete
06-06-2012, 12:55
Our team went on a trip one time and we were required to do some construction that required heavy earth moving equipment.

We found some heavy equipment at the local SeeBee Detachment - but they didn't have any operators - dang, there's that operators word again. The Navy would drop the equipment off, give a short class on how they worked and pick them up when we were done.

Both 18C's informed me they didn't have any heavy equipment experience.

I told them I was the Team Sergeant not the 18C and they best get to it. They did - and did a right passable job of it.

mark46th
06-06-2012, 17:22
One of the medics on my A team in Thailand got pissed off watching a local national trying to use a bulldozer to clear the forest around Nam Pung Dam. He was a lumber jack in a previous life. He took over the machine and proceeded to do twice the work in about half the time. It caused a big stink because the local machine operator(sorry Pete) lost face and filed a complaint...

Richard
06-06-2012, 17:33
It caused a big stink because the local machine operator(sorry Pete) lost face and filed a complaint...

I know it wasn't Strange Ed - he wasn't ever a lumberjack - he was a moron in his previous life, too. ;)

And how many chickens did that one cost Uncle Sam...

Richard :munchin

1stindoor
06-07-2012, 08:26
I know it wasn't Strange Ed - he wasn't ever a lumberjack - he was a moron in his previous life, too. ;)

And how many chickens did that one cost Uncle Sam...

Richard :munchin

Nothing worse than a lumberjack poser.

greenberetTFS
06-07-2012, 08:57
That's not what he seemed to be saying but it may have been what he meant to say but simply didn't necessarily word it correctly.

I've been trying to find the post but its quite difficult to pinpoint one post with keywords such as "teaching" and "Special Forces" on a SOCnet.

If I find it, I'll post it here.

None the less, I received the answer to my question. :)

Try reading "A Message to Garcia".......;)

Big Teddy :munchin

Team Sergeant
06-07-2012, 10:07
As has been pointed out, we come from varied backgrounds and experiences. If you looked at the list of schools a "Green Beret" attends you might be very surprised, few schools are closed to us.
We are also selected from all services, ethnic backgrounds and nationalities, just about anyone can attempt to become one of us but few make mental and physical cut.
We are highly selective in who earns the right to wear the Green Beret and for good reason, there's only one unit in the entire US military trained to , live behind enemy lines, and overthrow governments, just one. ;)

And I would agree there's very little an A-Team cannot accomplish if given the task.;)

mark46th
06-09-2012, 10:11
Richard- It was Levings... I wasn't involved in the negotiations, so I don't know what it cost. I'm still trying to figure out how Strange Ed got through the mental screening.

Prototype
06-18-2012, 11:19
Thanks for the replies, again.
Definitely very interesting.

Regards,

P

Prototype
07-05-2012, 08:36
Special Forces has three core competencies: Intelligence Operations (Recon, Surveillance, Security), Combat Operations (Raids, Ambushes, Security Patrols) , and Teaching others how to conduct Inteligence and Combat Operations (Foreign Internal Defense, Unconventional Warfare, Special Activities). The Primary Core Competency is Teaching.

There's the quote from SOCNET, in case anyone was wondering what exactly the SF'er said.

sinjefe
07-05-2012, 09:20
There's the quote from SOCNET, in case anyone was wondering what exactly the SF'er said.

While some of those things are true, it is a completely made up (and personal) definition.

longrange1947
07-05-2012, 18:49
While some of those things are true, it is a completely made up (and personal) definition.

Actually not really made up, paraphrased, I do believe.

It has been years, but I beleive something like that is in the old SF Operational handbook I got in final phase training eons ago. :)

I will have to search.