View Full Version : Bad Tölz, Böblingen, {insert name}???
Lärmbelästigung - the more things change, the more they remain the same...
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
In Germany, A Range Too Close For Comfort
S&S, 3 June 2012
The mayors are angry and so are their constituents.
After years of back-and-forth talk with the U.S. military over noise levels at the firing ranges in Böblingen, residents have a message for the Army: Stifle the sound or train someplace else.
“I’m running out of patience,” said Christine Kraayvanger, mayor of Böblingen, which hosts the U.S. Army’s Panzer Kaserne and the eight acres of shooting ranges where U.S. special operators prepare for America’s wars.
The range, about three football fields’ distance from a residential neighborhood, has irritated residents for years. Now, nearly three years after an Army-funded noise study found that the sound was indeed excessive, politicians and residents want to see more action.
“Everybody agrees it’s too noisy. It sounds like you are on a battlefield,” said Eberhard Knobloch, a retired Böblingen resident. “The answer we always get is, ‘Our soldiers have to practice.’ And we have to suffer.”
Residents want the Army to pay to renovate the entire Böblingen Land Training Area’s firing ranges with noise abating barriers, not just a portion as the Army has done so far.
The steady crackle of gunfire can be heard almost daily :cool: around the neighborhood of Rauher Kapf, home to about 1,500 people, a small kindergarten and a health clinic.
Kraayvanger said Böblingen established a special committee in response to demands from upset residents, but local officials say efforts to pressure the Army have failed to yield sufficient improvements.
The Army says it dealt with some noise concerns while making other improvements to the ranges. However, noise abatement wasn’t the prime motive.
(Cont'd) http://www.stripes.com/news/in-germany-a-range-too-close-for-comfort-1.179458#.T8xCIPWX0pU.facebook
greenberetTFS
06-04-2012, 10:08
“I do wonder why the Special Forces were ever sent here,” said Knoblauch. “It doesn’t make sense in a place like this.”.........:rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
Destrier
06-04-2012, 10:09
I doubt they complained to the German Army tankers during World War 2 that used the range.
I doubt they complained to the German Army tankers during World War 2 that used the range.
Those two guys were tankers who trained there in WW2...on bicycles with broomsticks...but now that they're retired... :rolleyes:
Richard :munchin
There is a lot of background information about the village "three football fields away" that generally does not get reported. Biggest is that the village did not exist until relatively recently. German developers purposely mislead buyers by taking them out there only during the agreed upon "quiet hours" when no shooting took place. Once the house were built and people moved in they then became aware the noise and of course it was the Ami's fault. The other big thing is that in the early-mid 2000's a noise study determined that the actual real increase in noise noise came not from the shooting but from the aircraft making their approach/departure from Stuttgart international. Guess PC has dictated other study results this time around.
Although I personally have connections to the area I think the Bn would do better to move to an area more conducive to training and with a supportive attitude. The Germans have forgotten who pulled their asses out of the fire following WWII and provided for their security for over 50 years. I have a very hard time dealing with many from the younger arrogant/liberal/superior generations.
I think somewhere like Kroatia would be ideal...
greenberetTFS
06-04-2012, 10:57
For a very short time when I was in the 11th ABN they weren't nationalized yet,we were still considered as an occupied force but their attitude really changed once they became nationalized......... :rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
Although I personally have connections to the area I think the Bn would do better to move to an area more conducive to training and with a supportive attitude. The Germans have forgotten who pulled their asses out of the fire following WWII and provided for their security for over 50 years. I have a very hard time dealing with many from the younger arrogant/liberal/superior generations.
I think somewhere like Kroatia would be ideal...
Please don´t go :D
Seriously, that´s typical with germans and the military.
You built your house near a nuclear power plant and now complain about possible pollution ? you´re fault
You built your house near a train track and now complain about the noise? you should have known better
you built your house near a autobahn? same here
But God behold you chose(!) to live next to a military area THEY have to shut the f*** up. Not just with US Forces, the same happens to Bundeswehr Units all the time.
Hey can we do some night jumps out of the Sea Kings? No, sorry they are not allowed to start after 8pm, other than in a case of emergency - noise pollution
The shooting area is shutting down at 4pm. "Why, noone lives around here for miles??" - "protection of the wildlife"
You´re considering moving to Croatia? I think germans want the Bundeswehr to move with you - all of them. We kind of moved from "Die Bundeswehr darf kein Staat im Staate werden" to "Der Staat darf keine Bundeswehr im Staat haben"
Maybe they'd quit complaining if we played the Panzer Lied or Horst Wessel Lied when using the ranges...
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
I know it sounds weird... but we need a new threat to national security to remind people that freedom doesn´t come for free (or by corrupting banking systems)
But this seems hard to come by, in a country where every(!) terrorist attack is prevented in a early state, plans for such an attack are revealed and demolished fast ... but somehow a few Nazis can kill and murder immigrants for over a decade with noone getting their hands on them o.O
Anyway, due to its reconstruction, the Bundeswehr is leaving some great great facilites. There is still enough space ;)
mojaveman
06-04-2012, 16:29
Although I personally have connections to the area I think the Bn would do better to move to an area more conducive to training and with a supportive attitude.
I was thinking Hohenfels, Grafenwoehr or Wildflecken.
I shot M1911A1s at the range on Panzer thirty years ago but the population density back then wasn't that great. Was there a few years ago and it had changed dramatically. I can remember when Vaihingen was a village.
greenberetTFS
06-04-2012, 17:40
I was thinking Hohenfels, Graffenwoehr or Wildflecken.
I shot M1911A1s at the range on Panzer thirty years ago but the population density back then wasn't that great. Was there a few years ago and it has changed dramatically. I can remember when Vaihingen was a village.
Hohenfels,I remember shooting my M1 in 1957-58 to re-qualify for expert over my sharpshooter badge......:p It was below zero and they still took us out on the range........:eek: I hated that place because I never went there except when it was always so f**n cold..:(
Big Teddy :munchin
"I was thinking Hohenfels, Graffenwoehr or Wildflecken."
I'm thinking out of Germany, although Barbaria is better than Baden-Wuerttemberg the restrictions on training are still way out of hand. Perhaps best to leave USAREUR/USEUCOM/AFRICOM in Stuttgart and get the Bn and perhaps NSWU2 into Poland/Kroatia/Slovenia...
MVP
Dozer523
06-06-2012, 03:02
Hohenfels,. . . I hated that place because I never went there except when it was always so f**n cold..:(
Big Teddy :munchin Ahh, I'm sorry to hear that Big Teddy. You shoulda gone in the summer. When it was too muddy or to dusty.
Anyone here ever spend Gunnery at Graf in Camp Cheb? In the winter. As a FOTB 2LT I learned exactly where I fit in the scheme . . . My cot was assigned to the corner of the GP Medium. I could see the glowing stovepipe of the potbelly diesel stoves.
Red Flag 1
06-06-2012, 14:06
Maybe they'd quit complaining if we played the Panzer Lied or Horst Wessel Lied when using the ranges...
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
With obama on a world apology tour, what better time to complain about our military. Hell, barry bight just send them a few billion, and a lofty anti-USA speech on his next shopping trip to Europe.
RF 1
greenberetTFS
06-06-2012, 15:22
Ahh, I'm sorry to hear that Big Teddy. You shoulda gone in the summer. When it was too muddy or to dusty.
Anyone here ever spend Gunnery at Graf in Camp Cheb? In the winter. As a FOTB 2LT I learned exactly where I fit in the scheme . . . My cot was assigned to the corner of the GP Medium. I could see the glowing stovepipe of the potbelly diesel stoves.
You funny dozer......:D :D :D
Big Teddy :munchin
mojaveman
06-06-2012, 16:44
and perhaps NSWU2 into Poland/Kroatia/Slovenia..
I always wondered why they were placed in the middle of Swabia and not somewhere near the water like the U.S. Naval facility in Naples.
Question: Swabia?
Answer: Training be damned, I want those boys where I can see them (COMSOCEUR)
MVP
greenberetTFS
06-07-2012, 12:18
In May 1958,the 505 Battle Group supported the 137th BG in the largest scale Army and Air Force Operation "Grandios" which culminated in a massive air drop over Gablingen DZ and the Bavarian weather was doing its usual best to make life as miserable as it could... :rolleyes: That was the last jump the 11th ABN made before retiring their colors on July 1st 1958,and becoming the LEG 34th INF.DIV........ :mad: We were not supposed to wear our Paratrooper cunt caps,nor could we put the Airborne tab over this patch that looked like a damn PIZZA stuck on our shoulder.......... :( I put up with this shit for 6 months,then I finally got my transfer to the 10th SFG to finish out the remaining 3 years of my 6 year re-enlistment I made at Ft.Bragg in 1956 to get into the 77th SFG..........:lifter
Big Teddy
Question: Swabia?
Answer: Training be damned, I want those boys where I can see them (COMSOCEUR)
MVP
Sadly, I believe that this is/was the closest to the truth in regards to our move. Though it was the COMUSAREUR (Crosby-Saint) who wanted us under his thumb.
I think COMSOCEUR just rolled over because of 1/10 being "Command less OPCON" to USAREUR and besides, CONSOCEUR then had his boys available for parades...
MVP