View Full Version : 2nd Debate
Sacamuelas
10-08-2004, 21:48
Alright, I didn't get to watch due to an obligation at a local high school football game tonight. Opinions on the outcome.... :munchin
The POTUS was clearly more at ease and at the same time took the fight to Kerry. It was good to see Kerry's Senate record come to light. Terry Macauliffe was PO'ed during his interview afterwards which is a good sign as well.
Bush responds to people much better than Kerry and it was apparent IMO.
Doc
The Reaper
10-08-2004, 22:01
Alright, I didn't get to watch due to an obligation at a local high school football game tonight. Opinions on the outcome.... :munchin
Bush lit him up. Good counter-fire as well. I started watching it with one hand on the Mute button in case it went south.
I would say that POTUS supporters will call it his, and the best the Dems can hope for is to call it a close or a tie.
POTUS missed a couple of opportunities (or I did).
Failed to ask Kerry why he wants a coalition and a UN mandate now to go to war when he voted against DS when we had won.
Did not aggressively pursue a couple of opportunities to call him out on more waffling.
Missed an opportunity to note the Afghan elections taking place right now.
Otherwise, I would say that was an A- for the POTUS, given what he has to work with.
TR
Bravo1-3
10-08-2004, 22:49
POTUS could have called Kerry out better on N. Korea.
He also missed an opportunity to hammer Kerry, when kerry stated ""I will appoint judges based on how they interpret the Constitution based on the law."
Last time I checked, Justices of the Supreme Court interpret the LAW based on the Constitution. I don't believe it was a mis-statement on Kerrys part either. He want judicial activists (read pro-choice, anti-gun) justices on the bench.
Best line: "I own a Lumber Mill!?"
ghuinness
10-08-2004, 23:06
I thought Bush did what he needed to do. Whether that will convert the supposed "undecided" votes, I don't know. I can't understand how anyone can be undecided at this point.
One thing I did watch was the interaction with the audience after the debate. Was it my imagination or did more people want to meet the President than Kerry after the debate?
The Reaper
10-08-2004, 23:17
The first debate lowered expectations for the POTUS, and scared supporters. He may have lost a few undecides who appear to drift all the way up to Election Day.
This one satisfied expectations, assuaged supporters, and may have swung a few undecideds back.
I am much happier right now than I was after the first debate.
I would say that the match is tied. POTUS needs to focus on the third debate, and while he may not win the debate, he must not blunder, smirk, look tired, or act passive.
I look for the POTUS to continue holding his narrow lead and perhaps expanding it in the next few days, barring catastrophe.
Dick Morris and Carl Rove looked very happy, Terry McAuliffe looked unhappy and they should know.
TR
Roguish Lawyer
10-08-2004, 23:43
Saca:
You need TiVo.
I'll watch it when I get home, assuming I can stay awake . . .
Radar Rider
10-09-2004, 00:51
When it was over, President Bush looked happy and relaxed.
sKerry looked like a dog just shat in his shoes.
Sacamuelas
10-09-2004, 10:17
Thank you for the replies. I am not seeing/hearing much on the debate this morning on the cable news channels, and I translate that into "their" feeling POTUS won and therefore the debate was insignificant. :rolleyes:
myclearcreek
10-09-2004, 11:24
The media here is too busy with the Texas Shootout (TX-OU game) .
The worst media comment I heard last night was regarding the President's insistent interruption of the moderator to respond to Kerry and make his point. It was, quoting loosely, "...children listening may have been scared and run to hide under their beds. On the other hand, adults may have seen the President as showing strength and determination of purpose."
They were seriously stretching to say anything negative. And all agreed that supporters of each side would declare victory.
Sacamuelas
10-09-2004, 13:48
Saca:
You need TiVo.
I'll watch it when I get home, assuming I can stay awake . . .
Cool.... maybe you could make a copy and post the video online for all to see? :munchin LOL ;) :D
I don't think Bush is very good at these. I think Kerry lives for them. I think Kerry missed a golden opportunity to counter Bush's "he voted 95 x's to raise taxes" when in fact Kerry also voted 645 x's not to raise taxes. Also, Kerry went against party lines to vote for a balanced budget.
Yeah, Bush missed some opportunities, came off a little nervous - when he asked if he had more time, than had nothing to say - and his attempts at humor, while they a part of what I love about him, may come across to the undecided voter that he may be missing the gravity of certain situations.
But all in all I don't think it hurt him. I do think the first debate did.
I am not an election expert just a lowly voter from Cleveland, Ohio. We have been bombarded with Kerry and Bush ads on both Radio and TV. Over the last two weeks I have seen more and more Kerry/Edwards signs and few Bush/Cheney.
I have been worried since last November about the chances of the President to get re-elected. Kerry seems to be effectively bashing the President and manipulating both the facts and voter's emotions. I was very upset last debate and even wrote some unflattering words about the CIC on here because of it. Huge mistake and I belatedly apologize to everyone for it. I am very lucky to be able to access this site. (I now know how important it is to control my emotions when talking about the CIC.)
I think the President needed to hit a homerun last night and he didn't do it. He had plenty of opportunities.
I personally don't think President Bush will get a second term. Not enough folks educate themselves and are too accustomed to soundbites and fake statesmanship.
I hope I am wrong.
The Reaper
10-09-2004, 14:49
Sigi:
I do not share your pessimism, and feel that after the lowered expectations, the President did just fine.
Maybe you need to start hanging out at http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ Real news and facts there, not partisan spin.
The Australian media said that their race was going to be close as well, and it wasn't. You may be getting spun.
At this point, I call Ohio and Pennsylvania the remaining critical battle ground states. I think the POTUS has locked FL and enough other states to win with one of the two. If he gets OH or PA, he is over the top. If he gets both, he is a lock. If he loses one, he will be hard pressed to find a way to win.
TR
TR
Sir,
Thank you for the link.
The Reaper
10-09-2004, 16:03
TR
Sir,
Thank you for the link.
Follow this one as well, and tell me where the trend line appears to be headed.
http://www.ras m ussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_Poll.htm
Take the spaces out of the url.
That is the steadiest, most consistent poll I have seen. Any pollster with a 14 point swing in two weeks in an election this divided with no axe murder involved is probably cooking the books.
TR
brownapple
10-09-2004, 19:51
Sigi,
Another thing you need to remember is that you are in Cleveland. The cities in Ohio (with the possible exception of Columbus) have a tendency to go Democratic historically, but Cleveland far more so than the others. Cleveland is still a rust belt city in political mindset even if not in appearance (and in my opinion, that is why Cleveland suffers in recessions longer than just about everywhere else).
Sigi,
GH's comments illustrate the trend I see as well. I drive around quite a bit and notice more Kerry signs in Toledo than I do in the surrounding country-side.
Turn on AM 1370 weekday mornings if you get the chance to hear what a couple of Toledoans that host the shows think about the race. Pretty good stuff.
Doc
ghuinness
10-10-2004, 18:18
Living in another swing state, I am curious what some of my fellow Floridians think/see?
If I look at just the people around me, I am worried. Friends I thought for sure would support Bush, have turned into Kerry supporters. I think most of the people at work are for Bush. I have to admit, certain friendships may change forever because of this election.
I thought the President did decidedly better than the first debate, and while he did miss a couple of opportunites to hammer Kerry even further, (would have liked him to go deeper on the corrupt Oil for Food/UN program and stressing the elections in the Stan over the weekend) it was a good debate.
Took a road trip to Indy and also to Dayton this weekend to see a friend and I saw more Bush-Cheney stickers and signs than I've seen in a long time, both on cars and on properties. Especially true as I drove through Indiana.
Roguish Lawyer
10-10-2004, 20:12
I watched it on TiVo last night. Better than the first debate, but to be honest, I was really disappointed. He missed so many opportunities . . .
The Reaper
10-10-2004, 20:47
I watched it on TiVo last night. Better than the first debate, but to be honest, I was really disappointed. He missed so many opportunities . . .
So did Kerry.
In keeping with what ghuinness wrote, I expect Bush to win, barring further catastrophes, but I also believe that some crazed Dem will make an attempt on his life within 12 months of the election. I have never seen this much angst and hatred over an election, and I was of voting age when Wallace was running for Pres. One of these brittle loons who believe that his party was robbed is going to snap, I am afraid.
TR
Roguish Lawyer
10-10-2004, 21:12
I was of voting age when Wallace was running for Pres.
Really? Wow. LMAO