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mac21
05-22-2012, 19:25
Question for anyone who may have done this:
My team has 1911's in the arms room, that have been there for quite a while from the looks of them. We're leaving for Afghanistan relatively soon and I was wondering if there was any form of full internals work over kit, or a civilian kit that would suffice for the issued 1911's. I'd be willing to pay out of pocket, and have spoken to the armorer and maintenance guys, however neither of those got me very far. We got defunded for 1911 parts a while ago to my understanding, and as such, the maintenance guys have lost track of parts for the guns. Just wondering if this would even be worth it, because I would much prefer a 1911 over an m9, as would other guys on my team. Any help would be much appreciated.

fasteddie565
05-22-2012, 21:47
Take them out and shoot them to get an idea of what you need. If you have 50 and only need 12, there is your temporary parts solution. I would imagine as long as you do not buy the frame, all of the other components are considered expendable repair parts and you should be able to buy them from Brownels. Ask your S4 to call Brownels and put a package together for you to deploy with.

Old Dog New Trick
05-22-2012, 22:06
Second the above advise.

I would say the only thing they "might" need is new barrel bushing and recoil spring. The best ones shake and rattle a bit. AFAIK the Army hasn't procured a new 1911 since just after WWII although many got put into service out new stock throughout the years until the late 70s.

If they work on the range, they will work down range. Check with local command if they will support ammo and use on deployment, they may say no.

JJ_BPK
05-23-2012, 03:31
Third all the above.

Caveat:

Although the mil-issue 1911's are sloppy and not match level accurate, they are hand fitted. The barrel link, barrel lug to slide, barrel bushing, slide to frame, sear, trigger, hammer, grip safety are all fitted.

AND as these have a few rounds thru them, the slide and frame rails will be well worn, maybe to the point where interchangeability is lost.

Net Net,, Get a 1911 armorer to check them out. Look for frame cracks. Then take them to the range and run a couple hundred rounds thru them.

Also, find a couple copies of Jerry Kuhnhausen's books to study and take with you.

"The Colt .45 Automatic: A Shop Manual, Vol 1"
"THE U.S. M1911/M1911A1 PISTOLS A SHOP MANUAL, vol 2"

And get a copy of TM 9-1005-211-34.
PM and I can send you a PDF copy.

Good luck, be safe..

Dusty
05-23-2012, 07:38
[QUOTE=mac21;449815] I'd be willing to pay out of pocket /QUOTE]

Are personally-owned sidearms OK for your team?

blue02hd
05-23-2012, 07:47
Also consider the availability of 45 ammo down range. I have been on ODA's deploying over the years with this exact problem set. On atleast two occasions we decided to leave the 1911's to the BN Staff to cart around due to the fact that there was no 45 ammo to be had. We COULD have taken our own with us as we deployed, but pro's did not outweigh the con's in our particular moment in time.

Love it or hate it, the M9 has a reliable and sustainable resupply source of ammunition in OEF where the 45 simply does not.

Don't overlook the training requirements.

BryanK
05-23-2012, 08:12
To second what JJ_BPK offered, I have TM-9-1005-211-12, 12P, and 35 level manuals on PDF if you wind up needing some additional resource materials. Just send a PM if interested. Stay safe!

Edit to add: I would try to get a hold of EM (electronic manual) 0065 if you can. It's on a cd which can be procured from your supply section if they request it from LOGSA. I would advise that to anyone who handles weapons maintenance. It has darn near every weapon manual from the last 60 or so years on it. It is a restricted item, so you must go through your sources. Hope this helps!

FearMonkey
05-23-2012, 22:04
Our medic had procured a .45 for the deployment, but the big issue is ammo. In our situation, the mission we were doing (Commando) had previously been a joint Marine-Army mission and there was a surplus of .45 ammo available left over from the Marines. However, this will not be the case everywhere. I suspect your issue won't be deploying with 1911's, but will be having a sustainable supply of ammo once you arrive at your site. Ammo resupply (unless it's an emergency bundle) can be hard to get depending on where you're at and .45 is non-standard for the Army. Make friends with the closest Marine unit in your AO and you'll be in business.

Dusty
05-24-2012, 04:07
I'd love to be able to wave a wand and get the M9 replaced with the HK .45.

Stras
05-24-2012, 05:19
Check out Wilson Combat Tactical for .45 parts and accesories..

take along your M9s as a backup to the backup.. in the event you don't have ammo..

The Old Guy
05-25-2012, 10:33
Not knowing what your timeline looks like and heeding the advice to have an armor look them over is critical. There are some VERY good armors in the Army, who specialize in action and target guns for various purposes. Contact me B/C and I can put you in contact with them, if interested. You may have to drive them down, but that is just an easy 5-6 hr drive for you.

V Legion
Strength and Honor!

orko
05-26-2012, 00:05
My ODA went through a simmular situation. We had to draft a memo in order to modify our 1911s. Once approved the S-4 had to sign off on the parts purchases since there is no contract in place for replacement parts. Our mods covered mostly after market parts though: bever tails, trijicon sights, ambi safety, grips, bushing rings and full legenth guide rods.

As far as refit, we sent all the pistols to bragg where they went through magnaflux inspection. Of the weapons that came back without codeout paperwork we lost most of our aftermarket parts. if a pistol needed to be fixed it came back to 10-20 standard.

I believe the Army plans to phase these out the same way they did the M79 (by attrition) so you can cannablize for main components such as barrels at home station without running the risk of loosing anything you already put on them.

I would agree with stras on the M9s, bring them as a back up. Guys would still want to maintain proficency with them anyhow if they have a shooting school in their future, or find them selves in a situation needing a larger magazine capacity.

Stras
05-26-2012, 00:33
[QUOTE=orko;450401]As far as refit, we sent all the pistols to bragg where they went through magnaflux inspection. Of the weapons that came back without codeout paperwork we lost most of our aftermarket parts. if a pistol needed to be fixed it came back to 10-20 standard. QUOTE]

Good Lesson for all. Always strip your "cool guy parts" from any weapon before you send it in for REFIT. Mother Army will always strip your "illegal parts" and replace them with the correct "authorized parts". We always sent one of our 18Bs to ensure that all of our "special" parts were returned and not "confiscated".

Streck-Fu
05-26-2012, 06:23
I have a copy of the Crane Joint Armorer's course on CD and can copy the 1911 portion for you. It is the full instructor presentation with color photos of the detail strip, reassembly, tools, and manual.

Let me know if that will help.

rocketjok
05-30-2012, 22:49
All of marsoc has .45s to include there chicks. With the way they are plug and playing msots and oda's I don't see how your B team or sotf won't have any. You could also just contact your nearest marine B team and ask for some. we had boat loads at our vso site last year.

tom kelly
06-04-2012, 17:50
I will wait for TR and Team Sgt. to comment on this subject? Here is hoping they do...Regard's, TK

The Reaper
06-04-2012, 20:33
I will wait for TR and Team Sgt. to comment on this subject? Here is hoping they do...Regard's, TK

I would take both, if I had them. And all of the sexy parts.

When I was at Camp Vance, we had more 1911s than M9s, and there was plenty of ammo for both. Range day every week, IIRC.

Just remember when gun plumbing that it doesn't matter how accurate it is, if it doesn't go BOOM when it is supposed to. Stick with Ball and good mags and the issue 1911s will run fine. The Berettas, not so much, in my experience.

TR

Dusty
06-05-2012, 02:46
Not long before I went to a doorkicker unit, they switched over to M9's from the 1911 for the shooting school. There was a LOT of bitching about it from all angles. I'd shot nothing but 1911's until then; my POWs were Essex frame jobs with the lugs and recesses matched up and Bomar sights-that was just what I was used to.

I don't remember too many failures with the M9's during training or afterward, but I never did get used to it-especially the 3500-round (or whatever) reciever check. Never gave it much thought, because it was very rarely the primary weapon, and when it was, you could always pack another M9.

I stayed with 1911's for my own defense and shooting all the way up until about a year ago. As I mentioned before, I equate them to riding and maintaining a knucklehead Harley-old technology, pain in the ass, but fun.

The important martial difference was a slower-moving, bigger chunk of (ball) lead.

When I switched over to HK, it took quite a while for the controls to become second nature to manipulate, but it's a vastly superior platform for the .45.

I realize HK isn't available in this case while 1911's are, and if you have the parts and smith tools available to get them in shape to ALWAYS bust a cap, then I'd go with a 1911 for sure.

Hopefully a handgun won't ever have to be your primary weapon.

Jgood
07-07-2012, 12:51
Like stated before with all the Marsoc and navy running around you should be able to get ammo and parts if you link up with a Marine AOB(If your in country PM and ill get you contact info maybe able to get you a POC stateside also) I am currently working for a Marine SOTF and AOB.

We have a navy Corpman on the team right now who is the only guy with a .45 been able to keep him on the range as often as he wants.

also have a brand new M79 so much fun to shoot