View Full Version : 82nd's Gen. Jeffrey A. Sinclair removed from job in Afghanistan
BMT (RIP)
05-12-2012, 03:23
"This is a criminal investigation," said Ben Abel, a Fort Bragg spokesman.
http://fayobserver.com/articles/2012/05/11/1176788?sac=fo.military
BMT
hmm, possibly not towing "the party line"???
Criminal investigation ......... He is incharge of the LOG side, contracts, supplies, etc..... Money does a strange thing to people.........
Just a observation only the CID agent knows..............
I can't imagine someone of his rank would be hurting financially......however, as was stated, money is a mythical beast that can make a sane man do crazy things.
I can't imagine someone of his rank would be hurting financially......however, as was stated, money is a mythical beast that can make a sane man do crazy things.
Well there is one other thing that makes a man do crazy things but that is for another thread....
Well there is one other thing that makes a man do crazy things but that is for another thread....
Such behavior cost the 173rd Bde CDR his career. ;)
Richard :munchin
Well there is one other thing that makes a man do crazy things but that is for another thread....
True, but that other thing usually is not criminal.
True, but that other thing usually is not criminal.
It is if it is his second or third Wife and no Divorces....:p
Cross thread points......:eek:
True, but that other thing usually is not criminal.
Research the case of the 173rd CDR... ;)
Richard
The Reaper
05-12-2012, 11:21
True, but that other thing usually is not criminal.
According to the UCMJ it is.
I wonder if they use the CID to investigate violations of General Order Number 1?
TR
According to the UCMJ it is.
I wonder if they use the CID to investigate violations of General Order Number 1?
TR
You're right. I'm wrong.
What is wrong..... The intel network has not heard any rumors about him yet? Go to the O Club and listen to the wifes talking and you will know what he is brought back for........
Do they still have an O Club? Every time I go down to Bragg, the old club looks pretty dead.
Put my money on the honey trap
Do they still have an O Club? Every time I go down to Bragg, the old club looks pretty dead.
SHows you how long it has been for me there....;)
The Reaper
05-12-2012, 22:04
Do they still have an O Club? Every time I go down to Bragg, the old club looks pretty dead.
No, they tore down the NCO Club for a convention center, and the O Club is the only club remaining, as an all-ranks club.
TR
No, they tore down the NCO Club for a convention center, and the O Club is the only club remaining, as an all-ranks club.
TR
No one goes on post to drink...unless you want to ruin your carreer....in the 90's they were setting up all vehicle check points late at nite just to catch any drivers/drinkers....killed the clubs on all posts
No one goes on post to drink...unless you want to ruin your carreer....in the 90's they were setting up all vehicle check points late at nite just to catch any drivers/drinkers....killed the clubs on all posts
That's why the sports USA club/ bar died ten years ago. MPs positioned themselves at key location. Not until they busted the 18th Corp MP commander. Now as far as I know or was told. That is why people at the GB club stopped there around 7 pm and moved of post. Which drove people just going to CM Bar or Mash House.
MWR management of the GB Club as well as others also hastened the departure to off post establishments that cater to the needs of the various groups, as opposed to just trying to make $$ off the G.I. Joes..
CM's is now the new GB Club with the old timers holding court and eating jalapeno popcorn.
BMT (RIP)
09-26-2012, 12:21
http://www.stripes.com/news/army-brigadier-general-faces-sex-pornography-charges-1.190885#.UGM-QCqiUb8.twitter
BMT
I'll see your General...and raise you a LTC....
A protocol officer for a general at U.S. Central Command at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Fla., has been arrested for allegedly trying to entice a 17-year-old boy into sexual activity.
The Tampa Bay Times reports that Air Force Lt. Col. Stephen Michael Governale was being held Tuesday in Seminole County without bail pending an Oct. 1 hearing in Orlando federal court. Court documents do not identify the general to whom Governale, 49, of Tampa, reported or indicate where the teenager lives.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/26/centcom-officer-accused-sexually-enticing-17-year-old-boy/
Just WTF is going on these days. The morals seem to be diminishing rapidly....leadership???? At THE highest level???
Badger52
09-26-2012, 13:34
Just WTF is going on these days. The morals seem to be diminishing rapidly....WTH. You mean the in-room Spice channel on his Guv card didn't fly through DTS? I've got butter knives with a better edge.
It does seem as if a few more key leaders than previously reported are not displaying the professionalism that could be construed to foster trust. Such conduct can fan the flames of allegations that the chain of command is not walkin' the talk, whether it be as a go-to person in suicide prevention or proper reporting of incidents of sexual assault.
Fort Bragg Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sinclair facing sodomy, other charges
What a mug shot
http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012/09/26/1206780?sac=fo.military
"A Fort Bragg brigadier general has been charged with forcible sodomy and other offenses involving sex, pornography and alcohol, Army officials said this morning.
The Fayetteville Observer has been monitoring the case and learned of the charges this morning. Fort Bragg officials will hold a press conference this afternoon............................."
Dude what were you drinking? Not the water it seems like!
Fort Bragg Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sinclair facing sodomy, other charges
What a mug shot
http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012/09/26/1206780?sac=fo.military
"A Fort Bragg brigadier general has been charged with forcible sodomy and other offenses involving sex, pornography and alcohol, Army officials said this morning.
The Fayetteville Observer has been monitoring the case and learned of the charges this morning. Fort Bragg officials will hold a press conference this afternoon............................."
Dude what were you drinking? Not the water it seems like!
So with which side:eek:
Looks like they allready had the Article 32 with this many charges....
I'll see your General...and raise you a LTC....
A protocol officer for a general at U.S. Central Command at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Fla., has been arrested for allegedly trying to entice a 17-year-old boy into sexual activity.
The Tampa Bay Times reports that Air Force Lt. Col. Stephen Michael Governale was being held Tuesday in Seminole County without bail pending an Oct. 1 hearing in Orlando federal court. Court documents do not identify the general to whom Governale, 49, of Tampa, reported or indicate where the teenager lives.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/26/centcom-officer-accused-sexually-enticing-17-year-old-boy/
Just WTF is going on these days. The morals seem to be diminishing rapidly....leadership???? At THE highest level???
You remove any Standards, penalties and basically allow any type of conduct other than normal and people just go bonkers. I hate to
bunch a group into one stereo type but it is starting to show that we may have a trend. Wish the bell could be un rang......
Let the assault begin..........
Dozer523
09-26-2012, 19:34
You raised with a LTC on this hand?
You're gonna have to pony up more than that... Say a Sub Commander, Helo Squadron Commander and a couple who bumped or ground their boats to play this game!
Forcible sodomy.....you have to force sub into this....shoot him and get it over with.
Freakin Gen Officer abusing subordinates.
If you don't have the savvy to conduct consentual ops at his pay grade...kill him.
Forcible sodomy.....you have to force sub into this....shoot him and get it over with.
Freakin Gen Officer abusing subordinates.
If you don't have the savvy to conduct consentual ops at his pay grade...kill him.
I am seeing a theme here...... Kill them..... I concur..!!!!!!!!:cool:
Ghost_Team
09-27-2012, 06:04
I'm pretty sure there was a time that he could have gotten away with this. It would have all been swept under the rug, and he would have quietly retired. I guess rank doesn't have as many privileges as it used to, which actually brightens my day. After 20 years of seeing NCO's get crucified, it's nice to see officers get publicly crushed under the same rules that they would enforce on the rest of us.
looking like more 630 accountability formations and safety briefs because that will fix everything:rolleyes:
also heard he had a picture with a ball cap on :D
The Reaper
09-27-2012, 16:44
I'm pretty sure there was a time that he could have gotten away with this. It would have all been swept under the rug, and he would have quietly retired. I guess rank doesn't have as many privileges as it used to, which actually brightens my day. After 20 years of seeing NCO's get crucified, it's nice to see officers get publicly crushed under the same rules that they would enforce on the rest of us.
I guess that will depend on whether he was sodomizing a female, or a male.
TR
69harley
09-27-2012, 17:42
I guess that will depend on whether he was sodomizing a female, or a male.
TR
With the new rules on homosexuality it really shouldn't make a difference?
mark46th
09-27-2012, 17:59
Under the new guidelines, he will probably get leniency if it was a male...
The Reaper
09-27-2012, 18:17
Under the new guidlines, he will probably get leniency if it was a male...
Exactly.
Can't punish a 'mo.
Time was, that would have gotten him tossed out on his ass, so to speak.
TR
AngelsSix
10-07-2012, 16:53
http://www.stripes.com/mobile/news/army/is-retirement-an-option-for-general-accused-of-forcible-sodomy-1.192237
So who thinks they will let the General retire quietly? His life is over now, anyway.
Looks like some miss steps that may taint the case...... Looks like this guy has had a pattern that has gone unchecked for a while.
Prosecutors allege 5 women in general's sex crimes
By MICHAEL BIESECKER | Associated Press – 18 hrs ago
FORT BRAGG, N.C. (AP) — U.S. Army prosecutors offered the first details of a rare criminal case against a general, alleging in a military hearing Monday that he committed sex-related crimes involving four female officers and a civilian.
A hearing on evidence in the case against Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sinclair began Monday at Fort Bragg, home to the 82nd Airborne Division. Officials said the Article 32 hearing, similar to a grand jury proceeding in civilian court, was expected to last at least two days.
But before prosecutors could start presenting their case, defense lawyer Lt. Col. Jackie Thompson said military investigators had violated his client's rights by reading confidential emails he exchanged with his lawyers and wife discussing the accusations against him.
Under questioning from Thompson, the lead investigator for the case acknowledged she had read the confidential e-mails, violating the terms of the subpoena used to obtain them from Sinclair's service provider. Those e-mails were later turned over to prosecutors, who are barred from seeing Sinclair's communications with his counsel.
Thompson then asked Criminal Investigative Command Special Agent Leona Mansapit if she had the resources she needed to conduct a proper investigation in Sinclair's case.
"Probably not, sir," Mansapit replied. "I wish I had."
The defense is asking the officer conducting the hearing, Maj. Gen. Perry L. Wiggins, to either require all new prosecutors to be assigned or that the case be thrown out.
Sinclair faces possible courts martial on charges including forcible sodomy, wrongful sexual conduct, violating orders, engaging in inappropriate relationships, misusing a government travel charge card, and possessing pornography and alcohol while deployed.
He served as deputy commander in charge of logistics and support for the division's troops in Afghanistan from July 2010 until he was sent home in May because of the allegations.
The sex-related accusations against Sinclair range from forcing a female officer to perform oral sex to having an extramarital affair with a civilian woman. Sinclair is married and adultery is a crime under the military code of justice.
In one instance, prosecutors also said that Sinclair threatened one woman's military career if she refused his advances. Later, prosecutors alleged that he threatened her life and the lives of her relatives if she told anyone about his actions.
When other officers questioned how the general spoke to women under his command, Sinclair was reported by prosecutors to have replied, "I'm a general. I'll say whatever the (expletive) I want."
Prosecutors alleged the general's illegal acts took place between 2007 and 2012 in places including Iraq, Afghanistan and Germany, as well as Fort Bragg and Fort Hood in Texas.
The Army had kept details secret until now in the rare criminal case against a high-ranking officer. That is different from other high-profile case where Army prosecutors were quick to release charging documents.
In March, the Army quickly released charge sheets laying out evidence against Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, the soldier accused of gunning down 17 Afghan civilians during a massacre in southern Afghanistan.
The first Article 32 hearing in Bale's case also began Monday across the country in Washington at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, south of Seattle.
There have been only two other court-martial cases against Army generals in recent years.
Before prosecutors can present evidence to support the accusations against Sinclair, much less move to a courts martial, Wiggins must decide whether to move forward with the Article 32 hearing.
"The investigators were tainted, and they tainted the prosecutors," Thompson told Wiggins. "They bungled the investigation, and if you leave them in place, they will bungle the prosecution as well."
A visibly flustered Lt. Col. William Helixon, the lead prosecutor, was put in the uncomfortable position of calling two of his fellow prosecutors to the witness stand to deny they had read the privileged e-mails. The defense learned of the apparent violation by spotting the e-mails among 16,000 pages of evidence turned over by the prosecution earlier this month.
Wiggins called a recess until 4 p.m. to consider what happens next.
One of the things about military justice I learned early on was that the military was very effective in applying UCMJ against 'military type' violations and very ineffective against 'civilian-type' violations.
Looks like some miss steps that may taint the case...... Looks like this guy has had a pattern that has gone unchecked for a while.
It still amazes me that there are women out there that are willing to put up with this bullshit when someone threatens their careers.
I can guarantee if he tried to force me into oral sex he would no longer have that particular appendage attached to his body.
He also would have had his testiculars shoved so far up in his throat it would have taken a surgeon to remove them.
Once my husband got a hold of him, then things would get nasty ;)
At that point it wouldn't have mattered to me if my career was in jeapordy. I wouldn't have been able to look my husband in the face, or myself in a mirror if allowed myself to be abused in that manner, without putting up one hell of a fight.
I guess we had better not ever harass you except over the internet.......:p
You are so right it does amaze me that they get away with it.
rsmith569
11-06-2012, 12:04
He is kinda looking like the Tiger Woods of Generals, just Tiger didn't have to force them.
He is kinda looking like the Tiger Woods of Generals, just Tiger didn't have to force them.
If you have seen pictures of the individual (I refuse to call him a man) in question you will understand why he felt he had to go down that particular path. He looks like he got knocked out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.:D
(note to self: NEVER even joke about this stuff around AFCHIC....I kind of like my 'testiculars" where they are). :)
But I agree. How can we extend to females the opportunity to be ninja's and close with and kill the enemy if they can't stand up to a superior officer in a clearly illegal act?
Snaquebite
03-12-2013, 03:56
Seems he hired a PR firm to go on the offense against the prosecution.
Some interesting stuff here:
http://www.sinclairinnocence.com/
sharkmanII
03-12-2013, 05:25
Man money and position can certainly buy you anything you want. Even though I think this is a feeble attempt to use a PR firm to cover up your wrong doings, they do make it sound like he was railroaded into these charge. The good General must have pi$$ed in someone's corn flakes to make them this mad and ruin such a "prestigious" career.... REALLY!! Imagine being this guys wife around the officer wives social circles. And man if oral sex is considered sodomy in the military... glad I got retired!!! :D
And the drama-rama goes on for "Mr Sexypants"... :mad:
Richard :munchin
Text messages between Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sinclair and the woman who accuses him of forcible sodomy were sometimes playful, sometimes angry
FayObsvr, 26 Apr 2013
Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sinclair and the woman who now accuses him of forcible sodomy traded hundreds of text messages in the months before their relationship fell apart.
The texts, which have been discussed in a Fort Bragg courtroom and partially released online, are at times sexually explicit and show a relationship that was sometimes playful and other times troubled.
Sinclair, a one-star general who was a deputy commanding general of the 82nd Airborne Division when the accusations were levied against him, used the pseudonym "Nathan Lancaster" to help keep secret his relationship with the woman, an Army captain who at one time served as his aide.
Seven months' worth of text messages, both to and from Sinclair, were provided to The Fayetteville Observer.
"You are my heart and world you beautiful magnificent man," reads one text sent to Sinclair in September 2011.
"K cant baby I loooooove you toooooooo much," Sinclair responded.
The texts are peppered with pet names such as "panda'' and "Mr. sexy pants" and include discussions of the two running away together. Sinclair sent some of the text messages from his family home.
Sinclair has admitted to the affair, and his accuser has said that she loved him.
During nearly 12 hours of testimony in a hearing at Fort Bragg last fall, the woman said she still had conflicted feelings about the general.
Sinclair's wife has since said the family was working to reconcile and that she was supporting her husband during his court-martial.
The tumultuous relationship between Sinclair and the captain continued until the night of March 19, 2012, when she entered the Afghanistan office of the 82nd Airborne Division commander, Maj. Gen. James L. Huggins, and admitted to the affair.
That was 10 days after the last text message, according to documents provided to the Observer.
Texts from the weeks before the accusations were made against Sinclair show the relationship was tenuous.
"Need to talk when you can," said Sinclair's accuser in an exchange that began March 5, 2012.
Sinclair said he would call, but when he didn't, his accuser said, "You are going to make me do something really stupid."
She later texts that she may need to call Huggins and "have him resolve this, Im sure he will take the time to keep me from being suicidal. I well not let you continue to screw me over."
During a hearing in November, the woman was visibly affected when two of Sinclair's military lawyers read the text messages out loud.
The woman testified that Sinclair made her feel like a "silly schoolgirl."
She testified that she repeatedly tried to end the relationship during its three-year course and said the two often argued about their future.
She alleges that, at one point, Sinclair threatened to harm her and her family if she called the affair off and told investigators that she was forced into sex acts twice in an office in Afghanistan.
She testified that she did not want sexual assault charges brought against Sinclair and did not want to ruin his career.
The text messages have been displayed on a website created to support Sinclair's defense, sinclairinnocence.com.
The website has been a contentious issue in court. The military judge, Col. James Pohl, warned Sinclair's lawyers during the most recent hearing that evidence provided to Sinclair's defense was not to be shared online.
Sinclair is facing 25 specifications of eight charges, including forcible sodomy, wrongful sexual conduct, indecent acts, attempting to violate a lawful order, maltreatment, conduct unbecoming an officer, adultery and communicating threats.
One charge, related to the possession of alcohol, could be dropped. A source close to the case said prosecutors informed Sinclair earlier this month that they would ask to have the charge removed.
Sinclair's court-martial is scheduled to start June 25. He is next due in court for a hearing on May 14.
http://fayobserver.com/articles/2013/04/25/1249923?sac=fo.local
Nothing New Here..Old News IMO
He Is His Website http://www.sinclairinnocence.com/
Update - and the beat goes on...
Richard
Army General Accused Of Sex Assault Wants Panetta Email
MilTimes, 25 Jun 2013
Lawyers representing a U.S. Army general facing sexual assault charges are asking amilitary judge to force prosecutors to turn over any emails related to the case sent or received by former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.
A court-martial is set to begin next month at Fort Bragg for Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sinclair on charges including forcible sodomy, indecent acts, violating orders and adultery.
In a motion filed Tuesday as part of a pre-trial hearing, lawyers for Sinclair argue top Pentagon brass were receiving regular updates last year on the investigation and may have encouraged subordinates to make an example of Sinclair. They are also seeking any minutes from any meetings about the case attended by Panetta, then the military’s top civilian leader.
It is unlawful in the military justice system for senior commanders to interfere in prosecutorial decisions and Sinclair’s lawyers are seeking to have the case against him dismissed.
Two of Sinclair’s commanders, Gen. Dan Allyn and Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Colt, testified at a hearing earlier this month that there was no such pressure. Both generals testified they relied solely on their best judgment in deciding to charge and prosecute Sinclair.
In a separate motion, meanwhile, Sinclair’s lawyers sought to have some of the general’s own emails suppressed at trial.
Sinclair briefly took the witness stand at the hearing Tuesday to talk about his use of a military computer in his office in Afghanistan, as well as compliance with password policies. It was the first time he has testified in the case.
A female captain who worked for Sinclair testified at an evidentiary hearing last year that she carried on a three-year affair with her married superior. She said that when she tried to end the relationship Sinclair threatened her and on two occasions physically forced her to perform oral sex.
The Associated Press does not publically identify the victims of alleged sexual assaults.
Prosecutors have suggested emails from the government-owned computer will show Sinclair threatened his accuser.
Sinclair testified that he had an expectation that any personal messages sent on the computer would remain private. The general said other members of his staff also used his computer to communicate with friends and family at home, due to limited access to the Internet in the war zone.
The prosecution countered with testimony that anyone who gets a military email account in Afghanistan has to sign a user agreement waiving privacy expectations. Sinclair said he couldn’t recall ever signing such an agreement.
Military judge Col. James Pohl did not immediately rule on the motions. Sinclair’s trial is scheduled to begin July 16.
http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20130625/NEWS06/306250045?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
I wonder what the flag officer crowd thinks of this now...
Richard
Generals Expected On Stand, In Jury For 1-Star's Sex Assault Case
ArmyTimes, 9 July 2013
In the courtroom, Sinclair’s legal team has filed motions accusing the government of seizing emails on his government computers in violation of his constitutional rights and exerting illegal pressure to prosecute Sinclair. Lawyers representing Sinclair asked a military judge to force prosecutors to turn over any emails related to the case sent or received by former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.
Outside court, his public relations team has launched a website called sinclairinnocence.com and Twitter account @SinclairFriends that have sought to shift attention from Sinclair onto the prosecution and Sinclair’s main accuser.
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130709/NEWS06/307090005/Generals-expected-on-stand-in-jury-for-1-star-s-sex-assault-case
Nothing New Here..Old News IMO
He Is His Website http://www.sinclairinnocence.com/
Obvious infidelity. Hard case to make for "forcible" after reading the accuser's journal. If her demeanor in the court room if 10% as ditzy as her journal, he may just be convicted for really, really poor judgement. His text messages also just make him look pathetic rather than powerful.
It would be interesting to see what the Rangers thought of him. One thing you learn as a female, a guy who tries to force a relationship by his position has a lot more problems than just with women. We may get to see it first, but the guys will see what a d$%^ he is as well in other things. That would be what would make him a target of the command in my mind -- if he was a Peter Principle kind of guy.
And as for the Captain -- any woman who doesn't stand up for her own dignity should not be in uniform. :mad:
This has been going on now for quite awhile.
"Decorated Army General Jeffrey Sinclair agrees to plea deal that drops sex assault charges and will instead plead guilty to far lesser charges - but it could cost him $1 million in retirement pay.
"The new guilty pleas are expected to be entered by Brig. Gen. Jeffrey A. Sinclair in military court on Monday morning
The deal will now mean the General would no longer have to register as a sex offender."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2582257/Decorated-Army-General-Jeffrey-Sinclair-agrees-plea-deal-drops-sex-assault-charges-instead-plead-guilty-far-lesser-charges.html
Oldrotorhead
03-16-2014, 19:38
I haven't seen this anywhere else.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-courtmartial-sinclair-20140303,0,4276082.story
If true maybe he'll get jail time and a Diahonorable discharge, but I wouldn't expect that as a result.
I haven't seen this anywhere else.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-courtmartial-sinclair-20140303,0,4276082.story
If true maybe he'll get jail time and a Diahonorable discharge, but I wouldn't expect that as a result.
He has pleaded guilty to having an adulterous affair, asking junior female officers for nude photos and possessing pornography on his laptop while deployed in Afghanistan. I don't see a General going to jail for that.
Chaplain Scott
03-16-2014, 19:58
I'm betting that he will get a DD and a short stay at Leavenworth.........
The Reaper
03-16-2014, 21:13
I believe that he will be retired as a Colonel.
The charges he pleaded to do not warrant a DD, or jail.
Classic arrogant toxic leader with a huge ego, believes himself above the regs.
Adios.
TR
Classic arrogant toxic leader with a huge ego, believes himself above the regs.
Adios.
BINGO!!
ddoering
03-17-2014, 07:59
He'll have a high 6 figure job within the beltway within 6 months.
Chaplain Scott
03-19-2014, 18:16
I believe that he will be retired as a Colonel.
The charges he pleaded to do not warrant a DD, or jail.
Classic arrogant toxic leader with a huge ego, believes himself above the regs.
Adios.
TR
Absolutely NO ARGUMENT with your assessment of his character.
My thoughts on the DD are that with all the congressional attention on sexual assault within the military, and his position as a GO, that he will get hammered. I read in some news report today (don't remember the source) that he also used his Govt credit card to pay for travel to go visit his girlfriend.
The Reaper
03-19-2014, 19:18
Absolutely NO ARGUMENT with your assessment of his character.
My thoughts on the DD are that with all the congressional attention on sexual assault within the military, and his position as a GO, that he will get hammered. I read in some news report today (don't remember the source) that he also used his Govt credit card to pay for travel to go visit his girlfriend.
He may have, but not too many people go to Leavenworth for that.
IIRC, the charges he has plead to are essentially consensual sex with a junior officer, having porn on his computer, and misuse of a credit card.
OTOH, the judge is a friend of mine who presided at some of the GITMO hearings. Frankly, I suspect that the plea bargain will prevent any jail time and will allow him to collect a portion of his retired pay, probably O-5 or O-6.
TR
Technical legal point:
Officers cannot receive a Dishonorable Discharge, they are "Dismissed from the Service."
The moral stigma is the same.
Snaquebite
03-20-2014, 08:55
http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/article_ea741779-ceab-5f12-a20d-19b2fd42e3a6.html
Army Brig. Gen. Jeff Sinclair received a reprimand and will need to pay $20,000 for violations of military law including adultery with a 34-year-old captain on his staff, maltreatment and obstruction of justice.
A military judge on Fort Bragg issued the sentence this morning.
Sinclair also will need to pay back $4,100 of the travel expenses that he wrongly accrued. The $20,000 will be paid over four months at $5,000 a month.
Well.....that REPRIMAND is pretty harsh. :rolleyes:
TrapperFrank
03-20-2014, 09:58
Different spanks for different ranks
1stindoor
03-20-2014, 10:53
Hey! Be fair, he has to try and make it on only $8,400 a month in retirement pay.
Chaplain Scott
03-20-2014, 13:15
He may have, but not too many people go to Leavenworth for that.
IIRC, the charges he has plead to are essentially consensual sex with a junior officer, having porn on his computer, and misuse of a credit card.
OTOH, the judge is a friend of mine who presided at some of the GITMO hearings. Frankly, I suspect that the plea bargain will prevent any jail time and will allow him to collect a portion of his retired pay, probably O-5 or O-6.
TR
Well TR, you were much closer to being correct than I was........
The Reaper
03-20-2014, 13:38
Hey! Be fair, he has to try and make it on only $8,400 a month in retirement pay.
I suspect that he will get less than half of that.
TR
I suspect that he will get less than half of that.
TR
This is what happens when you do not study hard in school and end up in the military. This is a shining example of the militaries crackdown on sexual misbehavior.
It ain't over yet. He'll get ordered to a show cause board which will certainly toss him. He will also have his service reveiwed to determine the last rank at which he honorably served.
He'll be an o-5 in a year or so.
WTF kinda look is this after the verdict?:confused:
WTF kinda look is this after the verdict?:confused:
This kind:
I take it that since he was relieved he has been drawing 1 star pay, what if anything has he been doing and if he is reduced in rank will he be required to give his excess pay back to the govt. from the time he was relieved? He has not exactly been a bargain to us tax payers. Jim P, do we have to wait another year before final disposition of this matter? In the meantime he does what and draws what pay?
1stindoor
03-21-2014, 06:22
This is what happens when you do not study hard in school and end up in the military. This is a shining example of the militaries crackdown on sexual misbehavior.
I do believe my esteemed teammate was referring to the "half" that Mrs. Sinclair will take upon her decision that the marriage couldn't be salvaged once the limelight dims.
The Reaper
03-21-2014, 06:51
I do believe my esteemed teammate was referring to the "half" that Mrs. Sinclair will take upon her decision that the marriage couldn't be salvaged once the limelight dims.
Exactly.
I strongly suspect that he will not draw BG retired pay and his soon to be ex- will get half of what he does receive.
TR
cbtengrThis is what happens when you do not study hard in school and end up in the military. This is a shining example of the militaries crackdown on sexual misbehavior.
Please explain the first sentence of your comment in this discussion to the membership here.
Snaquebite
03-21-2014, 08:55
Depending on when he first went in he will collect pay at the highest rank ever attained not what they were when they were discharged. . That changed in late 1986. Granted court martial may change that I don't know.
I believe this depends on an appeal to the Army Review Board. (which he must apply). The reg allows one to be advanced on the retired list to the highest rank "attained honorably" upon the date he/she would have served 30 years. In this case it would depend on what the ARB decides what rank was obtained honorably. There is a provision which requires one to have "served" honorably at that rank, however any portion of the time at the rank being requested is considered as having served honorably at that rank.
The Reaper
03-21-2014, 09:07
cbtengr
Please explain the first sentence of your comment in this discussion to the membership here.
I believe he is referring to a John Kerry line.
I believe this depends on an appeal to the Army Review Board. (which he must apply). The reg allows one to be advanced on the retired list to the highest rank "attained honorably" upon the date he/she would have served 30 years. In this case it would depend on what the ARB decides what rank was obtained honorably. There is a provision which requires one to have "served" honorably at that rank, however any portion of the time at the rank being requested is considered as having served honorably at that rank.
My understanding is that the offenses started when he was a Colonel, which means the last grade in which he is known to have served honorably is Lieutenant Colonel.
TR
I believe he is referring to a John Kerry line.
My understanding is that the offenses started when he was a Colonel, which means the last grade in which he is known to have served honorably is Lieutenant Colonel.
TR
that we know of, probably just didn't get caught yet...or turned in...
Being on TM's as we all have (QP's), we know who is, and who isn't every time we deploy...
I seriously doubt this was a "Honey, I only did this once" deal...
Loadsmasher
03-21-2014, 11:07
that we know of, probably just didn't get caught yet...or turned in...
Being on TM's as we all have (QP's), we know who is, and who isn't every time we deploy...
I seriously doubt this was a "Honey, I only did this once" deal...
You bring up an interesting point and one that I'm grappling with at the moment (I'm not the offender).
I've served with several Soldiers (male and female) that couldnt stick to their vows when OCONUS and for some when outside city limits. Everytime it happens it creates doubt in that person and my trust in them is questioned. The worst interanal conflict is when the offender is an otherwise outstanding Soldier. The conflict comes down to two mutually exclusives trains of thought:
1) If that person's signifigant other cant trust them to uphold the vows they made to them, while looking them in the face in front of family and a representative of God, how am I supposed to trust that when the chips are down that they will do their duty that could cost them their very lives.
or
2) What a grown up does in their bedroom with another consenting adult is no business of mine and has no impact on the mission.
I guess it's obvious that number one is my position, unfortunately in today's Army it seems most leaders are taking view number 2 and that if you dont like it dont let the door hit you on the way out. YMMV.
Any mentoring/discussion on this subject would be much appreciated.
Snaquebite
03-21-2014, 12:27
I believe he is referring to a John Kerry line.
My understanding is that the offenses started when he was a Colonel, which means the last grade in which he is known to have served honorably is Lieutenant Colonel.
TR
Haven't followed that closely, if that's the case, then that could be his rank and pay.
I do believe my esteemed teammate was referring to the "half" that Mrs. Sinclair will take upon her decision that the marriage couldn't be salvaged once the limelight dims.
I never thought of his wife's cut, good point. My comment re: not studying hard and ending up in the military was in regards to an asinine comment made by Kerry awhile back, maybe that should have been in pink. No offense meant to good and honorable soldiers, the dig was made at the general.
You bring up an interesting point and one that I'm grappling with at the moment (I'm not the offender).
I've served with several Soldiers (male and female) that couldnt stick to their vows when OCONUS and for some when outside city limits. Everytime it happens it creates doubt in that person and my trust in them is questioned. The worst interanal conflict is when the offender is an otherwise outstanding Soldier. The conflict comes down to two mutually exclusives trains of thought:
1) If that person's signifigant other cant trust them to uphold the vows they made to them, while looking them in the face in front of family and a representative of God, how am I supposed to trust that when the chips are down that they will do their duty that could cost them their very lives.
or
2) What a grown up does in their bedroom with another consenting adult is no business of mine and has no impact on the mission.
I guess it's obvious that number one is my position, unfortunately in today's Army it seems most leaders are taking view number 2 and that if you dont like it dont let the door hit you on the way out. YMMV.
Any mentoring/discussion on this subject would be much appreciated.
That is a very complicated subject. My guys know I didn't condone the actions, but, as you said, who am I to say?? I don't know the personal relationship's with their wives..
All I know is, I knew it, they knew it, and it didn't reflect, as long as it did not interfere with job performance.
I guess, you have to "straddle the fence" per sey when such a subject appears...
I never documented it, or held it against them, but I did lead by example...and did not "endulge"....no matter our OPTEMPO, but to be honest, most places I've been, ahhh noooo!.. Thank goodness I wasn't a 7th GP or 1st GP guy, it would've been much harder...(no pun intended) :eek:
Loadsmasher
03-25-2014, 09:28
That is a very complicated subject. My guys know I didn't condone the actions, but, as you said, who am I to say?? I don't know the personal relationship's with their wives..
All I know is, I knew it, they knew it, and it didn't reflect, as long as it did not interfere with job performance.
I guess, you have to "straddle the fence" per sey when such a subject appears...
I never documented it, or held it against them, but I did lead by example...and did not "endulge"....no matter our OPTEMPO, but to be honest, most places I've been, ahhh noooo!.. Thank goodness I wasn't a 7th GP or 1st GP guy, it would've been much harder...(no pun intended) :eek:
Unfortunately it never seems to stay under the covers and eventually bleeds over from personal time and into work time. Not to mention the effect when the music stops and the deployment ends. In the coed units I have been in the real issues dont even start until you get home, regardless of whether or not it was just a deployment fling. When you've been doing the horizontal mambo with another green suiter, lets see how trusting your SO is when you go to work.
Now, if they were out spreading pollen among the natives that changes the equation for me. Not morally but there is something to be said for not squating where you eat.
Maybe CIF really should issue spouses
Unfortunately it never seems to stay under the covers and eventually bleeds over from personal time and into work time. Not to mention the effect when the music stops and the deployment ends. In the coed units I have been in the real issues dont even start until you get home, regardless of whether or not it was just a deployment fling. When you've been doing the horizontal mambo with another green suiter, lets see how trusting your SO is when you go to work.
Now, if they were out spreading pollen among the natives that changes the equation for me. Not morally but there is something to be said for not squating where you eat.
Maybe CIF really should issue spouses
I could imagine a "coed" unit, thankfully, never been in one.
I could imagine a "coed" unit, thankfully, never been in one.
My only experience was pldc and it was a nightmare. The soldier who won best soldier was a female who bragged about bEing the s3 air and put herself in every jump so she could get her master blaster sooner. She also bragged that she got pregnant to get out of orders to korea, than found out if she started smoking it would be considered ahigh risk pregnancy, and would only have to work half days.
My only experience was pldc and it was a nightmare. The soldier who won best soldier was a female who bragged about bEing the s3 air and put herself in every jump so she could get her master blaster sooner. She also bragged that she got pregnant to get out of orders to korea, than found out if she started smoking it would be considered ahigh risk pregnancy, and would only have to work half days.
You just reminded me of an "event" that happened while I was in BNCOC at Bragg. Some of the 82d guys snuck over to the PLDC area while we were doing our FTX and they were "obliged" by a couple of willing female soldiers....
Of course, this was the mid '80's before we had any of these wonderful annual classes, so I bet that wont happen now.....right???
You can't stop it, never happen...
Loadsmasher
03-26-2014, 09:44
My only experience was pldc and it was a nightmare. The soldier who won best soldier was a female who bragged about bEing the s3 air and put herself in every jump so she could get her master blaster sooner. She also bragged that she got pregnant to get out of orders to korea, than found out if she started smoking it would be considered ahigh risk pregnancy, and would only have to work half days.
Try a deployment with a 70/30 male female ratio. They were catching people EVERYWHERE. On top of CHUs, in abandoned buildings, in the bunkers (really akward for the couple when we got IDF), in a connex that somehow locked itself, and in vehicles in the motor pool. The guys running the cameras had a highlight reel that they set to wacky sax from the Benny Hill show.
All joking aside, it created real issues with morale and even command authority. I mean, how serious can you take a CPT whose SPC girlfriend is telling everyone he likes to be spanked and called a naughty boy. (They were both sent home, thank god).
Try a deployment with a 70/30 male female ratio. They were catching people EVERYWHERE. On top of CHUs, in abandoned buildings, in the bunkers (really akward for the couple when we got IDF), in a connex that somehow locked itself, and in vehicles in the motor pool. The guys running the cameras had a highlight reel that they set to wacky sax from the Benny Hill show.
All joking aside, it created real issues with morale and even command authority. I mean, how serious can you take a CPT whose SPC girlfriend is telling everyone he likes to be spanked and called a naughty boy. (They were both sent home, thank god).
Well soon those problems will be at the team level.
Got ya'll beat: IN the waterbuffalo at the ISB in Alexandria, LA as the player-unit was prepping to go into the box at JRTC. Middle of summer; a zillion degrees out; humidity dripping from the air and two people bumping ugly's INSIDE the water buffalo!!! (their ONLY water source)
Of course we had to ensure all the other OC'ds were aware before we alerted the player unit.
Almost as fun as the lovely young lady who dropped a duece in the shower tent at a Hood warfighter because she was too lazy to walk outside and shit in the port-a-potty.
Got ya'll beat: IN the waterbuffalo at the ISB in Alexandria, LA as the player-unit was prepping to go into the box at JRTC. Middle of summer; a zillion degrees out; humidity dripping from the air and two people bumping ugly's INSIDE the water buffalo!!! (their ONLY water source)
Of course we had to ensure all the other OC'ds were aware before we alerted the player unit.
Almost as fun as the lovely young lady who dropped a duece in the shower tent at a Hood warfighter because she was too lazy to walk outside and shit in the port-a-potty.
I'm surprised it wasn't on the 1SG's desk... :eek:
Loadsmasher
03-27-2014, 10:23
Got ya'll beat: IN the waterbuffalo at the ISB in Alexandria, LA as the player-unit was prepping to go into the box at JRTC. Middle of summer; a zillion degrees out; humidity dripping from the air and two people bumping ugly's INSIDE the water buffalo!!! (their ONLY water source)
Of course we had to ensure all the other OC'ds were aware before we alerted the player unit.
Almost as fun as the lovely young lady who dropped a duece in the shower tent at a Hood warfighter because she was too lazy to walk outside and shit in the port-a-potty.
Dumpster at Mother Rucker in September. I told the 1SG that they demonstrated some serious motivation and dedication to the task given that the dumpster wasnt empty. He was not amused.
BMT (RIP)
03-27-2014, 10:28
Guys, If the tales told by the SF medics at Ft Sam in the '60's are true, everyone one will have a hard time beating these tales!
:D
BMT
On top of the moose head. The Warehouse, San Antonio. Circa 1975.
On top of the moose head. The Warehouse, San Antonio. Circa 1975.
You have to be careful with those, you never know what's been there before you......the moose too :D
BMT (RIP)
06-20-2014, 13:37
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/20/army-drops-retirement-benefits-general-convicted-adultery/?intcmp=latestnews
:lifter
BMT
Snaquebite
06-20-2014, 14:31
I think he qualifies for the "High three" system for retirement.
Based on 26 years he'll receive 65% of his average basic pay for the highest 36 months of the his career
The Reaper
06-20-2014, 14:36
"Gen. Sinclair has consistently taken responsibility for his mistakes and agreed to a reduction in retirement benefits," his lawyer, Richard Scheff, said in an emailed statement. "He is a highly decorated war hero who made great sacrifices for his country, and it's right that he be permitted to retire honorably."
Excuse me, that is Lieutenant Colonel Sinclair.
TR
question.....How do you 'force' a Captain to give your oral sex over a 3 year period.
Slow reaction time?
Didn't see it coming?
Wtf?
question.....How do you 'force' a Captain to give your oral sex over a 3 year period.
Slow reaction time?
Didn't see it coming?
Wtf?
Good question. Seems there is more to this story, but it's another sordid mess involving our general officers.
Scimitar
06-21-2014, 06:42
question.....How do you 'force' a Captain to give your oral sex over a 3 year period.
Slow reaction time?
Didn't see it coming?
Wtf?
I'm thinking more like slight of hand...erm... I mean slight of...
S
ddoering
06-21-2014, 06:46
I think he qualifies for the "High three" system for retirement.
Based on 26 years he'll receive 65% of his average basic pay for the highest 36 months of the his career
Poor guy. How will he ever live on that amount?
NurseTim
06-21-2014, 08:20
Poor guy. How will he ever live on that amount?
What is the estimate of monthly income?
Snaquebite
06-21-2014, 08:36
What is the estimate of monthly income?
Not sure how long he was a one star but a modest estimate IMHO would be $4500-$5000 a month.
Not sure how long he was a one star but a modest estimate IMHO would be $4500-$5000 a month.
Still more than he deserves. If this was a civilian case he would be labled a Sex Offender and that would follow him for ever.
Wounder how his case will work in this regards. Will he have that label since he made a plea and it was the military?
Snaquebite
06-21-2014, 08:49
Still more than he deserves. If this was a civilian case he would be labled a Sex Offender and that would follow him for ever.
Wounder how his case will work in this regards. Will he have that label since he made a plea and it was the military?
Good question...How did the final verdict read? Will he be required to register as a sex offender?
I wonder if he'll put "LTC Sexy Pants (Retired)" on his business cards?
Richard
He should have gotten jail time. He was lucky he was wear a star at the time.
BLUF she was giving it up, yet the newly LTC didn't want to leave HH6 so mouth did what she did. This be come the normal in the coming years.
Heck look at what happen with a Bragg MAJ and his wife. She was sleeping around while down range and he snatch her ass up and she called rape and much more.
Not sure how long he was a one star but a modest estimate IMHO would be $4500-$5000 a month.
Not after his soon to be X gets a hold of it. I'm betting she's gonna take him for all he's worth, at least I hope so...
Whether the young CPT gave it up freely or not, he shouldn't have done it in the first place...JMHO of course...
Snaquebite
06-22-2014, 08:02
Not after his soon to be X gets a hold of it. I'm betting she's gonna take him for all he's worth, at least I hope so...
Whether the young CPT gave it up freely or not, he shouldn't have done it in the first place...JMHO of course...
I agree, if she files in NC, she's sure to get a minimum of 50% if they've been married 10 years of more. Some lawyers and judges start adding a % (1 1/4)for each year after 10 in NC.
I agree, if she files in NC, she's sure to get a minimum of 50% if they've been married 10 years of more. Some lawyers and judges start adding a % (1 1/4)for each year after 10 in NC.
that, and ya know she's gonna throw in a lot of "emotional hardship" stuff and the like...
Damn, glad I'm not him...:eek:
Peregrino
06-22-2014, 08:53
that, and ya know she's gonna throw in a lot of "emotional hardship" stuff and the like...
Damn, glad I'm not him...:eek:
He wouldn't be "him" if he had kept his dick in his pants and hadn't abused his position. Really hard (impossible) to be sympathetic.
He wouldn't be "him" if he had kept his dick in his pants and hadn't abused his position. Really hard (impossible) to be sympathetic.
Oh, I'm not sympathetic, I hope he gets taken through the grinder...
Snaquebite
06-22-2014, 17:00
Oh, I'm not sympathetic, I hope he gets taken through the grinder...
Me either...My ex #2 got 24%, she was the one screwing around, admitted it in court and I wasn't even retirement eligible yet.:confused:
Haha.. Just had to post this..
http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/06/jeffrey-sinclair-soldier-of-year/