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View Full Version : David Groves Special Forces POW Liar and fraud


Team Sergeant
04-24-2012, 13:14
Not true Jed Boal, we can prove or disprove David Groves Special Forces "claims". And we will do it right here with the assistance of hundreds of real "Green Berets". Let's get to work. :munchin

I'm sure David Groves has all sorts of documents that will support his Special Forces claims.
Team Sergeant


Man's POW story hard to prove, historians say
By Jed Boal


SALT LAKE CITY — If you ask David Groves what he was doing during the Vietnam War, he would say he volunteered to serve with the Army's 5th Special Forces Group, was wounded in an ambush and captured, and was starved and tortured for six months until he escaped into the jungle and hid for two weeks.

If you check with the Department of Defense, however, you wouldn't find any that information recorded.

Mary Schantag has been flagging imposters for more than two decades for the Prisoner of War Network. Currently, she is awaiting a letter from the National Personnel Records Center, which told her preliminarily they cannot find any military records on Groves.

"It is our opinion that he is not a former POW, that he was not with the Green Berets or special forces in Vietnam," Schantag said. "To have been missed from every one of the files and lists and determinations is just an impossibility."

Friday, April 13, Groves took part in a luncheon the Veterans Administration hosted to honor Utah's surviving POWs. Groves was honored at a Veterans Day celebration at the University of Utah in 2000. In 2003, his story was flagged by the POW Network, which Schantag said is common among stories like his.

"They're looking for a freebie," Schantag said. "I don't care if it's a free beer, a date, of VA disability. They're looking for something. They don't do it just because they can."

The Department of Defense lists 662 Americans as POWs during the Vietnam War, a list that does not include Groves. Through his wife, Groves insists that he is a POW, but will not explain why he is not on the list.

“It is our opinion that he is not a former POW, that he was not with the Green Berets or special forces in Vietnam.”
–- Mary Schantag, POW Network"We are retaining legal counsel," the Groves family said in a statement. "Until then, we have no further comment, except to say, these accusations are entirely false and defamatory."

Could the records be wrong?

"In the 3,000 cases that we follow, not one has ever proven the Department of Defense records wrong," Schantag said.

Retired Navy combat pilot Mike McGrath is the historian for NAM-POWs, Inc. and spent five years and eight months as a POW in Hanoi during Vietnam.

Many of his close friends are also Vietnam-era POWs, and he has helped track down some of the 3,000 fakes — more than four times the number of real Vietnam POWs, according to McGrath.

"Unless this guy has some written proof, or some eyewitness proof, he's not one of us, he wasn't with any one of us of the 662 that got out alive," McGrath said.

Jay C. Hess of Farmington was also honored at the VA luncheon earlier this month. He suspected there was an imposter, because he thought he knew all of the Utah Vietnam POWs.

Hess flew more than 30 combat missions as an Air Force fighter pilot before he was shot down and endured more than 2,000 days in captivity.

"If you're not a phoney, get it corrected," Hess said.

Those who pose as POWs don't make him mad. But, he says, it diminishes the valor of those who did serve. "We ought to be as a country, able to look at a person in uniform and feel respect for them, and not have a suspicion," Hess said.

VA will make a statement about Groves' case Tuesday. David Groves refused comment.





http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=20116986&title=mans-pow-story-hard-to-prove-historians-say&s_cid=featured-5

Utah Bob
04-26-2012, 10:05
Those who pose as POWs don't make him mad.
That's okay. I've got enough anger for both of us.:mad:

sinjefe
04-26-2012, 10:17
The way that article was written makes it sound that there might be some possibility that DOD is wrong and that is BS. Everone who is in or was in knows that there would be a DD214 on file on this guy, minimum. The media blows.

Team Sergeant
04-26-2012, 11:00
The way that article was written makes it sound that there might be some possibility that DOD is wrong and that is BS. Everone who is in or was in knows that there would be a DD214 on file on this guy, minimum. The media blows.

Wait and see, some reporters actually listen to "us". ;)

Richard
04-26-2012, 11:57
Shockingly...his name isn't on this list:

Defense Prisoner of War/Missing Personnel Office
US Prisoners of War who escaped captivity during the Vietnam War

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/vietnam/reports/pmsea_escapee.pdf

Or on this one:

Vietnam Prisoners of War
Escapes and Attempts

http://www.axpow.org/vietnamescapes.pdf

Or any others. Must be one of those clerical error things or another fire at the NPRC.

Richard :munchin

sinjefe
04-26-2012, 12:02
Shockingly...his name isn't on this list:

Defense Prisoner of War/Missing Personnel Office
US Prisoners of War who escaped captivity during the Vietnam War

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/vietnam/reports/pmsea_escapee.pdf

Or on this one:

Vietnam Prisoners of War
Escapes and Attempts

http://www.axpow.org/vietnamescapes.pdf

Or any others. Must be one of those clerical error things or another fire at the NPRC.

Richard :munchin

Either that or classified.

Richard
04-26-2012, 12:15
Either that or classified.

Yeah - classified ads.

Help Wanted: Clown, must be proficient in scamming unsuspecting audiences and naive reporters while maintaing a straight face and feigned surprise at being challenged, demonstrated expertise at prevarication a plus, call BR-549 and ask for Junior.

Richard :munchin

13BSLC
05-03-2012, 11:34
From the Salt Lake Tribune 5-3-12;

"Utahn who claimed to be a POW never served in Vietnam "


http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54035267-78/groves-vietnam-pow-utah.html.csp

Team Sergeant
05-03-2012, 11:57
That was fast and done by a reporter no less.

Utahn who claimed to be a POW never served in Vietnam
V.A. honoree » Record shows he didn’t deserve the honor.

By Kristen Moulton
The Salt Lake Tribune
First Published May 02 2012 02:58 pm • Last Updated May 02 2012 11:28 pm
Dave Groves, a West Jordan man who has been honored by the Veterans Administration’s Salt Lake office and the University of Utah as a decorated Vietnam vet and prisoner of war, did indeed serve his country, but never in Vietnam, according to his Army personnel record.

The record, obtained by The Salt Lake Tribune through a Freedom of Information Act request, shows David Jennings Groves, now 67, was drafted and entered the Army in Sante Fe, N.M., and spent two years, Dec. 7, 1962 to Dec. 9, 1964 at Fort Bliss in Texas.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54035267-78/groves-vietnam-pow-utah.html.csp

Richard
05-03-2012, 12:07
Not counting the other issues with his uniform, how the hell can anyone show up around a major VA function wearing the beret backwards like that and not get challenged! :eek:

Oh, I get it - he's the 'mirror image' of an SF soldier.

Wanna bet that other liar Jose' Harris is still drawing his VA disability, too. What an F'd up system. :mad:

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

greenberetTFS
05-03-2012, 14:28
Not counting the other issues with his uniform, how the hell can anyone show up around a major VA function wearing the beret backwards like that and not get challenged!

Oh, I get it - he's the 'mirror image' of an SF soldier.

Wanna bet that other liar Jose' Harris is still drawing his VA disability, too. What an F'd up system. :mad:

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

It's hard to believe that no SF guy seeing the way he wore that beret didn't suspect for starters this guy was pure BS...........:rolleyes:

Big Teddy :munchin

PRB
05-03-2012, 17:06
It's hard to believe that no SF guy seeing the way he wore that beret didn't suspect for starters this guy was pure BS...........:rolleyes:

Big Teddy :munchin

Lol yeah, have you seen some of us retirees wearing their Beret's ;)....but he has more 'flags' than a Nazi Parade

tom kelly
05-04-2012, 16:45
I notice that David Groves is wearing Vietnamese Jump Wings? Where did the authorization for that badge come from?
ARMY REGULATION 600-8-22 does NOT list the "Vietnamese Parachute Badge" as an authorized award... Also If the evidence of record showes that David Groves completed The Republic of Vietnam Special Forces Parachute Training whiile serving in country; Regulation 635-5 states that training courses for combat skills will not be listed in item 29 of the DD form 214....TK

SF_BHT
05-04-2012, 17:35
Damn Tom. Now you have shown he is really SF because everyone knows SF does not follow the reg's:rolleyes::p

PRB
05-04-2012, 18:37
I notice that David Groves is wearing Vietnamese Jump Wings? Where did the authorization for that badge come from?
ARMY REGULATION 600-8-22 does NOT list the "Vietnamese Parachute Badge" as an authorized award... Also If the evidence of record showes that David Groves completed The Republic of Vietnam Special Forces Parachute Training whiile serving in country; Regulation 635-5 states that training courses for combat skills will not be listed in item 29 of the DD form 214....TK

It is listed on my DD214....but I know which way the flash is supposed to face ;)

Richard
05-04-2012, 19:21
I notice that David Groves is wearing Vietnamese Jump Wings? Where did the authorization for that badge come from? ARMY REGULATION 600-8-22 does NOT list the "Vietnamese Parachute Badge" as an authorized award.

I think it did up to some point of revision post-1975 after the fall of the RVN to the DRVN.

Richard :munchin

ODA 226
05-29-2012, 01:46
I think it did up to some point of revision post-1975 after the fall of the RVN to the DRVN.

Richard :munchin

I think that revision came in 1979. IIRC, that's when all the guys on my team had to remove their Vietnamese awards and decorations.