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Has anyone heard of an AAR concerning the use of the MK19 in Iraq? I have an Airforce customer that says they heard the MK19 was not being used because of reliability. If anyone can give me any info on this I would appreciate it. Answer me here or by PM.
Has anyone heard of an AAR concerning the use of the MK19 in Iraq? I have an Airforce customer that says they heard the MK19 was not being used because of reliability. If anyone can give me any info on this I would appreciate it. Answer me here or by PM.
I saw a picture of a QP over at SOCNET (I think) firing an MK19 with the Kurds in northern Iraq, many months ago.
Has anyone heard of an AAR concerning the use of the MK19 in Iraq? I have an Airforce customer that says they heard the MK19 was not being used because of reliability. If anyone can give me any info on this I would appreciate it. Answer me here or by PM.
Not trying to be smartass.:D How many AF personnel even know how to operate one?
They are being deployed and used especially along the MSRs and at other static positions.
The Reaper
10-04-2004, 16:25
You call, we research.
TR
Section I. MK19 Grenade Machine Gun (GMG) and 40mm Ammunition
General Discussions:
The MK19 GMG received great appreciation and praise by the warfighters who used it. Some of the comments included high rate of indirect fire, lethality and ease of operation as well as overall accuracy of ammunition.
Although the weapon functioned well under the combat conditions in the AOR, soldiers would like a number of improvements. These improvements are as follows:
Section I. a. MK19 GMG
Issue #1: Night Capability
Discussion: Most units deployed for OIF lack the capability to engage targets with the MK19 during limited visibility. The MK19 TWS bracket is the primary interface for the Heavy Thermal Weapon Sight (HTWS) with the MK19. Not all units are issued the HTWS or the bracket; therefore, a majority of units interviewed do not have the capability to engage targets during limited visibility. Some units have motorized platoons with MK19s in each company and have a limited number of AN/TVS-5s but no thermal capability or the interface to mount the devices. Units interviewed desire an integrated sight that provides thermal, day view optic, laser range finder (LRF) and laser aiming capabilities.
Recommendation: Provide additional production funding for additional procurement and immediate fielding of the HTWS and TWS Bracket to units not currently fielded these items. Second, develop a lightweight integrated sighting system which incorporates day/night, thermal, laser range finder and laser pointing capability.
Issue #2: Gun Mounts
Discussion: The pedestal and ring mounts were not robust enough for daily operations. All of the mounts observed had a number of deficiencies. The mounts strained under the weight of the system while driving under combat conditions. The weight of the gun and the ammunition jarred and shook the mount excessively. Some of the mounts exhibited catastrophic failures, but units continued to use them – with fabricated reinforcements, in order to retain the capability. The gun mounts do not deadline the vehicle. Some of the mounts did not lock the gun in place or the gun had a lot of movement which contribute to loss of accuracy. This issue is not as high in the unit priority as ensuring that rolling stock is fully mission capable (FMC).
Recommendation: Mounts should be replaced immediately to ensure operational efficiency of the weapon system. Second, develop a more robust mounting system for this weapon system.
Issue #3: Gunners had difficulty engaging line of sight (LOS) targets or moving targets.
Discussion: The weapon is employed as a direct fire weapon, but the time of flight and trajectory of the 40mm HEDP reduces the units capability to accurately or quickly engage targets: vehicular and personnel, at medium to long range. Several gunners desire the capability to “point-and-shoot.” Units have transitioned from combat operations to Stability and Support Operations (SASO), but the threat remains. Units establish traffic control points (TCPs) and must be able to engage targets on high speed avenues of approaches. Furthermore, the high trajectory of the 40mm may pose a problem in the cities with low power or telephone wires and lamp posts. The possibility of a premature detonation while in flight is greater within an urban area.
Recommendations: Develop a system that provides a “point-and shoot” direct LOS engagement capability.
Section I. b. MK19 40-MM Ammunition
Issue #1: The current round configuration can not be relinked in the field.
Discussion: When locking and loading or going from amber to red status, the function of placing a round in ready fire position eliminates that round from reuse if not fired before they return to base. The round is ejected upon clearing and must be turned in for disposal. What’s needed is a reliable way to reuse the ammo through re-linking. One soldier demonstrated what he did to replace the link correctly in the belt using a Gerber tool.
Recommendation: Review link and linking capabilities to determine if there is a suitable method for the user to relink the ammunition.
Issue #2: Arming distance
Discussion: For MOUT operations the weapon is virtually useless due to the arming distance of the round being too long. They would like a round that arms earlier, but is still safe to use.
Recommendation: Look at minimum safe distance for arming and determine if there is any opportunity to reduce the distance and still maintain the safety of the gunner.
Issue #3: Flatter trajectory
Discussion: Continuing with the above thought they would also like to see a round of ammunition that they could use in a direct fire mode rather than arcing angle. In this manner they could more efficiently fire on rooftops, at doors, etc., without too much collateral damage.
Recommendation: Review the weapon system performance parameters and asses whether a direct fire capability exists.
Issue #4: Excess dunnage
Discussion: The ammo is packed in cans with what they consider to be excessive internal packaging material. This material must be completely removed prior to firing. In a combat mode the time to unpack is excessive and could adversely expose the soldier to enemy fire.
Recommendation: Current packaging configurations protect the ammunition and fuze safely during rough handling and transportation. Alternative methods should be examined to determine if there is a way to reduce the packaging dunnage.
Issue #5: Lethality
Discussion: While the HEDP round performed reasonably well, soldiers expect the ammunition to exhibit greater effective/destructive power. As such they would like to see a round that exhibits greater blast effects. Possibly a single purpose round like an HE round
Recommendations: A High Explosive only configuration has been typed classified, but is no longer being produced. Operational requirements should be re-examined and appropriate action initiated.
Issue #6: Airburst munitions
Discussion: They would also like to see a round with airburst capability and greater on target fragmentation/kill potential.
Recommendations: Assess availability of an airburst capability. Utilize commercial off the shelf, non developmental items or developmental programs as appropriate.
Issue #7: Multipurpose door breaching munitions
Discussion: As in all MOUT engagements there is the expressed desire to multiplex your weapon system to include a door breaching capability. In theater exterior doors are steel framed, hollow steel panels approximately one inch total thickness. A round that could be fired from a MK19 GMG into such a door, breaching it is desired.
Recommendations: Assess availability of door breaching capability. Utilize commercial off the shelf, non developmental items or developmental programs as appropriate
Issue #8: Canister round
Discussion: A desire was also expressed for a shot type round that would be effective in either MOUT or Stability and Support Operations (SASO). In MOUT it would enable use of the MK19 as a defensive weapon during SASO and would dissuade crowds from advancing on small units.
Recommendations: Accelerate the production and fielding of the XM1001 Canister round.
Issue #9: Non-lethal
Discussion: Soldiers would like to see some sort of non-lethal ammunition for peace keeping roles. As it stands in the currently defined OPTEMPO, the MK19 is a dead weight system that is being carried about.
Recommendations: Review possibility for non-lethal rounds in high velocity 40mm
Take a look at this...FORT BENNING, Ga. (TRADOC News Service, Sept. 27, 2004) – The Army has developed a prototype of a vehicle that may change the future battlefield.
The Assault Weapon System, an experimental turret-mounted, multifunctional weapon system attached to a humvee, may put the firepower of an entire heavy-weapons platoon into one vehicle.
The system is the brainchild of Training and Doctrine Command, Raytheon and TRADOC System Manager-Close Combat Weapon Systems, and features an MK-19 grenade launcher, .50-caliber machine gun and two TOW missile-firing platforms.
All three of the weapon systems are connected to a central Improved Target Acquisition System that gives the gunner the option of firing each weapon with the flick of a switch and automatically gauges the range of the target by using an eye-safe laser range finder.
When the gunner flips a switch on the control panel and charges the weapon of choice, the display will change for the particular weapon and will show the sights for that weapon.
In older systems, the gunner would have to “walk in” the grenades when firing the MK-19, which means it would take several shots to hit the target. However, the ballistics for each weapon are already integrated into the ITAS, which gives the gunner better accuracy.
“This is probably the most flexible fire-support system to the day,” said Sgt. 1st Class Charles McCartney, Company A, 511th Infantry Regiment, Fort Bragg, N.C., who was showing the vehicle during the infantry conference Sept. 20-23. “The best part about it is its flexibility, the fact you can select the weapon you want to use.”
The system also features a networked, persistent, all-weather, extended range surveillance and target-acquisition capabilities for increased survivability and situational awareness.
The key to the improved communication is a system called Force XXI Command Battalion Brigade and Below, which provides a connection among all the elements on the battlefield. FBCB2 combines Global Positioning System technology with a long-range laser targeting system that keeps everyone on the battlefield connected using real-time audio video and text messages.
In essence, the unit’s operations center can watch the battle through the gunner’s sights and, if air support is needed, the position of the target will already be narrowed down to within 10 meters.
McCartney said it currently takes several vehicles and nearly a whole platoon to match the AWS’s versatility, and if the system is approved, it can greatly increase the Army’s fighting capabilities.
“We can have one vehicle doing the job of three, or we can have three vehicles doing three times as much,” he said.
The vehicle on display was a watered-down version of the tactical vehicle that is still in the construction phase.
Plans for the tactical version include a smaller, collapsible turret, removable composite armor plating, undercarriage protection from mines, a smaller targeting screen, and the gunner’s seat may be moved to the rear of the vehicle to allow for another team member and lower the distractions for both the gunner and the commander, said Wayne Spate, AWS program manager.
“We are already working on the tactical version because, if it gets approved, we will already have it and we can put it on the battlefield quicker,” he said.
Appreciate the info guys, I had not heard anything bad about the MK19, when the Airforce asked, I knew someone here would be able to give me the answer. Guy didn't take it as you being a smart ass, they do have them and use them in protection of smoe convoys they run here in the States. That don't mean they have a complete understanding of how to employ them and use them effectively.
Thanks Reaper and Guy.
Airbornelawyer
10-05-2004, 15:02
Because we always like pretty pictures...
PAS-13 TWS?
In regards to the ammo issues, specifically #1 and #4:
Unfired but chambered ammunition has the issue of the chamber's lip "shucking" the actual link to the rear of the round. Apparently there is a tool that you can use to link the ammunition, scooting the link to the proper placement on the round.
The excess dunnage sucks but is required for safety purposes during transport. I know that in the large Mk19 ammo can's you can easily double the amount of ammunition stored in the cans simply by unloading the cans, getting rid of all of the foam (and taping some to the strap the gunner sits on so you don't lose comfort factor) then linking the belts and backfeeding into the cans. You can safely store the ammunition this way.
Rough roads in afghanistan didn't cause a single round detonation with any of the linked and unpadded ammunition we carried on our HMMWV's.
PCI's. you backfeed your ammo into an ammo bag for a 240, not sling the boxes it comes in around your neck... same thing applies here. Every can on a hummer with a Mk19 needs to be broken open, de-foamed, and backfed.
As for the new weapons system stuff.. wonder if they can figure out a way to put that on a stryker? :)
I still vote for a GAU-13 and one big ammo bin.
transporter1864
07-22-2005, 02:47
The MK19 is a very effective tool on the Transportation Side of the Army. Our unit is currently deployed in Iraq and Kuwait and we take a MK19 on every convoy. As far as the issue of using a round after it has been locked and later on been cleared and is now seperated from the belt this is true that round should be turned in to be re-sleeved although there is an improvised way of re-loading that seperated round, we ran into the issue of not being able to get more ammo for our MK19's. The method is NOT in the manuals but should be, it is safe for both the weapon and the soldier that is loading it.
EchoSixMike
08-01-2005, 00:42
I used the beejesus out of the Mk 19, and I love it. It's a maintainance pig and we had some bad lots of ammo where the links were improperly mounting on the casing, but I would not trade that gun for any other crew served. Much more useful in my AO than the M2 for dealing with dismount savages at 20-1000m. Some of the other units within the Bn had problems due to improper maintainance and failure to kick armorer ass IOT fix broken guns. In at least one fairly major engagement(60-80 savages hitting a plt patrol base) this was a major missed opportunity. S/F....Ken M