One for the Bravos

[neecheepure]

Gents,

Got a Glock model 21 SF .45 caliber that "blew up" in a guy's hands while shooting Blazer CCI ammo. I've seen the gun (pic is attached) and the hands in question; both are pretty chewed up.

Question is, is this something you all have seen before with Glocks? With Blazer ammo? Is this being addressed with these companies? Advice for my buddy for getting his weapon replaced by Glock or Blazer?

Thanks in advance from a humble Delta.

[Stingray]

I am not a Bravo, so hopefully I am not out of my lane.
I have used a Dept. Issued Glock 21 in Gen 2 and Gen 3 putting thousands of rounds through them with no problems. We have never used Blazer or the Gen 4 SF model. So i would reason it is a Gen 4 or ammo issue if not an individual weapon defect. Glock has treated us well with backing their product as well. If you would like a contact at Glock, pm me. I Will Check with our armorer and find you one.
Sincerely,

[BOfH]

My understanding(and limited experience) is that Blazer cases are aluminum, which can crack easily under stress, my uneducated guess would be over pressure(powder overload) or the cases were reloaded(Blazer CCI cases are marked "not reloadable").


My .0002, FWIW...

v/r
BOfH

[Dusty]

google Glock kb.

[koz]

Gents,

Got a Glock model 21 SF .45 caliber that "blew up" in a guy's hands while shooting Blazer CCI ammo. I've seen the gun (pic is attached) and the hands in question; both are pretty chewed up.

Question is, is this something you all have seen before with Glocks? With Blazer ammo? Is this being addressed with these companies? Advice for my buddy for getting his weapon replaced by Glock or Blazer?

Thanks in advance from a humble Delta.

Every pistol manufacturer has had a kaboom or mechanical failure of some type. The Glock failures were primarily with the 22 (40S&W).

I'd first call Glock. They'll probably want to take a look at it.

[Miles]

Not an 18 series either, but all I do for Uncle is work on his guns .

With only the one picture to work with, we can see that the slide and barrel are still in the locked, forward position and the barrel is still visibly intact.
We can't see if the chamber area is cracked, or if the barrel is bulged from stuck bullet.

So, at first impression, it looks like the case head blew out and everything went down the grip.

Seen that before!

Single cartridge defect?
Previous cartridge undercharged, put the bullet up the barrel and the next one blew?
Barrel ramp/chamber out of spec?
Without looking at the gun, one can only speculate.
But I sure would sequester any more rounds of that ammo, if any's left.

Like others have written, contact Glock and see what they want to do.
Since it's a Gen4, your shooting buddy might get warranty service or a reduced price on a replacement.
I'd also contact CCI as well.

[PMC]

Adding to asset Miles' comments above........I had a similar Kaboom experience with a Gen 3 G21. It was a duty weapon, and saw frequent use with at least every other day on the range.

I rotated duty ammunition in 3 to 4 month cycles and shot it accordingly. At the time I was using Federal HydroShock Duty ammunition. When the Kaboom occurred, the barrel swelled, locking up the slide, while the main force of the detonation blew straight down, blowing out the magazine well, the trigger, and magazine release as well. I had a relatively lengthy shift followed by advanced training class that weekend. In the chaos, I did not get photos. Upon contacting Glock, a new LE pkg G21 with night sights and 3 hi-capacity magazines was shipped to me overnight, along with return postage for the Kaboom model.

A few weeks later, a Glock technician contacted me to inform me it was not the firearm, but rather ammunition which somehow caused the detonation. The polymer frame aided in absorbing the blast, however, brass shards were fragmented into my hand, and cheeks. I had the shrapnel removed a couple of days later, after my training class was completed.

[tom kelly]

Not my favorite when it comes to semi-auto pistols. The .40S&W Glock's DO NOT HAVE A FULLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER, This can be dangerous because the chamber pressure can reach up to 35,000 PSI depending on the ammunition being used in the weapon. Also keeping a round chambered, and Glock pistols reley on the trigger safety, It is possible to get an unintended discharge when reaching for the pistol, Remember Plexico Burris?

I have herd that the U S Army is leaning to replace the current Berette M-9 pistol with the Glock G-19....Tom Kelly

[Badger52]

The .40S&W Glock's DO NOT HAVE A FULLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER, This can be dangerous because the chamber pressure can reach up to 35,000 PSI depending on the ammunition being used in the weapon. Also keeping a round chambered, and Glock pistols reley on the trigger safety, It is possible to get an unintended discharge when reaching for the pistol, Remember Plexico Burris?Respectfully, nearly all semi-auto pistols don't have a fully supported chamber, it's the nature of the beast. The large % of KB's over time have been shown to be over-pressure due to faulty ammo - quite often out of Federal/ATK (who also do Blazer) which is what alot of LE agencies purchase in huge quantities.

Contacting Glock directly is always the best way; they will ideally want to examine the gun and would want a sample of the ammo used. I've even seen a couple instances where they replaced the gun when it was clearly the ammo's fault.

Negligent or 'unintended', I personally know someone who has managed to remove a piece of their butt cheek with a 1911 which has alot more external mechanical switches to flip than the 3 internals on a Glock. It can happen, and has happened throughout history with revolvers as well.

This Plaxico Burress?

The criminal complaint, released by prosecutors Monday, said that an onlooker then saw Burress near the V.I.P. area of the club holding a drink in his left hand and fidgeting his right hand in the area of the waistline of his pants. The witness then heard a single “pop” sound before hearing Burress say, “Take me to the hospital.”

Burress was on the ground, with his legs shaking, when a bloody gun — a .40-caliber Glock pistol — fell out of his pant leg and onto the floor, the onlooker said. Investigators believe that [Giants linebacker Antonio] Pierce was standing next to Burress when the gun went off. The bullet, which broke through the skin of Burress’s right thigh and pierced muscle tissue, traveled through the leg before lodging itself somewhere in the club.Sounds like the young man should've had a proper holster and refrained from mucking with the goods.

[Streck-Fu]

The Glock chambers are even less supported than most.

[Dusty]

The Glock chambers are even less supported than most.

What do you mean by "most"?

[Dusty]

Not my favorite when it comes to semi-auto pistols. The .40S&W Glock's DO NOT HAVE A FULLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER, This can be dangerous because the chamber pressure can reach up to 35,000 PSI depending on the ammunition being used in the weapon. Also keeping a round chambered, and Glock pistols reley on the trigger safety, It is possible to get an unintended discharge when reaching for the pistol, Remember Plexico Burris?

I have herd that the U S Army is leaning to replace the current Berette M-9 pistol with the Glock G-19....Tom Kelly

lIf they do, they'll have an exponential increase in ND's unless they totally revamp handgun training. Or have Glock install mag disconnectors.

[Badger52]

lIf they do, they'll have an exponential increase in ND's unless they totally revamp handgun training. Or have Glock install mag disconnectors.QP Dusty you have my curiosity piqued. Do folks routinely perform only half a clearing procedure or something and rely too much on their disconnector? From a transition-training perspective just trying to understand what behavior you've seen that you'd want to overcome with a mag disconnect?

[Streck-Fu]

What do you mean by "most"?

Pistols from other brands.

I had a G23 and shot it for years with no problems and I, personally, do not think that it is a problem with quality factory ammo.

I did compare the Glock barrel to a Sig .40 barrel and the chamber on the Sig had greater coverage over the base of the cartridge.

The Glock has a longer less angled feed ramp and it is where this feed ramp meets the barrel that leaves the lower portion of hte cartridge exposed.

I never reloaded .40 brass but know a few people that had issues resizing .40 brass fired from Glocks because a bulge forms.

[Dusty]

QP Dusty you have my curiosity piqued. Do folks routinely perform only half a clearing procedure or something and rely too much on their disconnector? From a transition-training perspective just trying to understand what behavior you've seen that you'd want to overcome with a mag disconnect?

Most of the ND's I've seen and heard about with Glocks happen when the mag is released, but the round in the chamber isn't extracted. That's why Browning put a disconnect in the BHP. Most people, including myself, don't like that function, but it has, I'm sure, prevented many negligent discharges.

The other problem is the "safe" trigger. I leave that to your imagination.

[Badger52]

Most of the ND's I've seen and heard about with Glocks happen when the mag is released, but the round in the chamber isn't extracted. That's why Browning put a disconnect in the BHP. Most people, including myself, don't like that function, but it has, I'm sure, prevented many negligent discharges.

The other problem is the "safe" trigger. I leave that to your imagination.Your 1st sentence describes most ND's I've seen regardless of model. You cited my only serious gripe on the BHP; I never thought such a thing belonged on a fighting gun but that's just me.

Thanks.

Actually the "safe" trigger functions more as a 2nd drop safety internally and they could've left it at that; I tend to prefer a safe finger. This is 2nd hand but I do recall once someone defeating that. Guy redeployed back to us from part of an MP MTT back when all the G19's were bought for the Iraqis. Told me there was some serious cowboy twirling going on for awhile tlll they reined it in; too much bootlegged John Wayne video maybe.

[Badger52]

Fair & Balanced ya know & thought of this thread.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120615/NEWS03/120615029/Man-shoots-himself-in-the-penis-in-Birmingham?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPA GE%7Cs

Weaponsman has a pretty good take on it as well, which had me chuckling, yet nodding the nead in concurrence with his assumptions about the resultant penile discharge. Alot of NDs apparently occur when people are 'dickin' around with the gun.

Trivia: I belatedly recall also seeing a Glock collector at an NRA convention several years ago who displayed a model of G19 that had been done specifically at request of the Philippines for a 1911-style manual safety. Glock has done that before as an OEM thing before the aftermarket mods came along; don't know if they've done it since or been requested to do it.

I'm keepin' & carrying mine, along with my 1911s, J-frames, vintage Beretta mouseguns, 3" 45LC, whatever. My situation might be different than the HVAC guy's; I don't have a bolt hold-open on my AK either and I apparently own at least one more holster than he did.
:eek:

Some people I guess just need to be prompted with a Bill Gates pop-up:
Are you sure? (Y/N)

[Hognose (RIP)]

I'm keepin' & carrying mine, along with my 1911s, J-frames, vintage Beretta mouseguns, 3" 45LC, whatever. My situation might be different than the HVAC guy's; I don't have a bolt hold-open on my AK either and I apparently own at least one more holster than he did.
:eek:

Some people I guess just need to be prompted with a Bill Gates pop-up:
Are you sure? (Y/N)

Laughing my ass off over the Gates thing. How many guns now have a long, lawyer-penned screed abjuring you to read the manual before operating the gun? They could save a lot of engraving but just putting, "RTFM."

I've seen a lot of folks go from the 1911 to the Glock, and it seems to be a rewarding transition for those who train all the time. Nonetheless, a percentage of everyone (even Tier 1 dudes) has NDs with them. (Of course, if they're still holding the line on that, your Tier 1-ness is over before the shot is done echoing). Glocks make an ND easy. Of course cops, the vast majority of whom tend to have little training or interest in weapons, blast themselves and the planet and the persons, vessels, vehicles or structures upon it with depressing regularity. Usually this is the cop who takes the thing out of its holster once every two years to barely qualify, but sometimes it happens to others.

PDs love the lack of an external safety and assume it means they can cut their already miserly training allocations. Comedy ensues as long as no one is crippled or killed.

There was a cop who Glocked his wife recently, showing off his gun to relatives at a Memorial Day BBQ. He's actually been charged with something serious, but word is he was a dirtbag that was riding a bogus disability, so they were looking for a flimsy excuse to scupper him when a reason came along. Still, most cop unions will defend an incompetent with the tenacity of the Russians in Leningrad. So the incompetents never go away.

A Glock in a SERPA holster in particular is a trip to the ER, just biding its time.

Glocks (especially .4x Glocks) are prone to kB with reloads. They should never be fired with reloads, including commercial reloads, and cases from Glocks should not be reloaded. AFAIK every kB with factory ammo has been an ammo factory screwup. The problem is that the unsupported case on the Glock barrel extends above the case web.

You can diminish this risk by replacing the Glock barrel with some aftermarket barrels.

A very good overview of the problem is here:

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html

Bottom line: use reputable factory loads (not Tovarisch Grubo-Rabotnik's) and you're OK unless you get the one round in 30 million that's bad. And bin your Glock-fired cases. If you're really worried and have a 21 or 23, get a Bar-Sto barrel.

PS: while a bolt hold-open is a splendid invention (thank you, Hugo Borchardt), the old-school way to count rounds was to have three tracers in the bottom of your M16 mags -- works with AK too. However, if you don't drill to react to the tracers until it's practically muscle memory, in daylight combat you won't see them.