View Full Version : Marine Sergeant Faces Discipline for Facebook Critique of Obama
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/22/us-marine-facebook-idUSBRE82L1BG20120322
Sergeant Gary Stein, 26, a weather forecaster assigned to Camp Pendleton near San Diego, cast the Marines' reaction to his comments as an infringement on his freedom of speech and defended his right to express personal political opinions when he is off-duty and out of uniform.
"There is not a document in this world that trumps the United States Constitution," the San Diego Union-Tribune quoted him as saying.
But Army veteran Rick Rogers, host of the San Diego military talk radio show "Front & Center," said Stein appeared to be instigating a confrontation with the Marines "to get notoriety." Stein previously ran afoul of the military over comments on his Armed Forces Tea Party page in 2010.
Defense Department rules allow military personnel to express political opinions so long as they are not doing so as representatives of the armed services.
"He had to know there's a good chance the Marine Corps would kick him out," Rogers told Reuters, explaining that associating the name of his Facebook page with the Armed Forces essentially put Stein in the position of speaking publicly while in uniform. "I believe in freedom of speech, but when you join the military, you give up some of your rights," Rogers added. "There's a firewall between the military and civilian politics -- you don't criticize the government while you're in uniform."
Stein told the newspaper the Marines accused him of making statements about the president "that are prejudicial to good order and discipline," in violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and were taking steps to discharge him from the corps. Major Michael Armistead, a spokesman for the Marine Corps Recruiting Depot in San Diego, said the corps had begun administrative action against Stein after a preliminary inquiry into allegations that he "posted political statements about the president of the United States on his Facebook web page titled 'Armed Forces Tea Party.'"
Damn it! Gotta delete my account too. :p
Yes you give up rights, but not sensibility. There are plenty of others critisizinng the Obama regieme. HOO YAH MARINE STEINE!
Mr Furious
03-22-2012, 23:59
He is saying he did not violate 1344.10 that was updated shortly after BHO took office: http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf
I am not a legal type, so I default to those experts. I would think that social media could be classified as published endorsement and group discussion under 4.1.2.3. & 4.1.2.6. What do you think?
Spitfire34
03-23-2012, 02:00
He's definately picked a slippery slope to tread on regardless. I don't like Obama either but nothing about this Sgt's actions are what I would regard as good decision making...you'd think a forecaster would be able to see that storm on the horizon :munchin
He's definately picked a slippery slope to tread on regardless. I don't like Obama either but nothing about this Sgt's actions are what I would regard as good decision making...you'd think a forecaster would be able to see that storm on the horizon :munchin
This guy is obviously a publicity hound. He'll prolly wind up making more money from the nororiety than he would by staying in.
The cold, hard fact will always remain that Obama, however incompetent he's judged to be, still holds the office of Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. You may think the man holding the office is a sack of maggoty dung from a thrice-accursed, syphillitic hyena, but you still gotta take a bullet for the office.
Sergeant Gary Stein, 26, a weather forecaster assigned to Camp Pendleton near San Diego,...
I'm not a weather forecaster, but I would predict a shit storm after any Marine posts a Facebook entry stating he would not obey the orders of the President.
I'm not a weather forecaster, but I would predict a shit storm after any Marine posts a Facebook entry stating he would not obey the orders of the President.
:D:D:D
however incompetent he's judged to be, still holds the office of Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. You may think the man holding the office is a sack of maggoty dung from a thrice-accursed, syphillitic hyena, but you still gotta take a bullet for the office.
That's what we said about Nix:Don !!!
That's what we said about Nix:Don !!!
Who's "we"? Gotta mouse in your pocket? :D
Who's "we"?
Well - the SPEC4 and I, for two...among all the others who were serving at that time. :p
I served during the Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, GHW Bush, and Clinton administrations - didn't agree with a lot of the things they said or did, but they were the CINCs and I had faith in the system; still do.
Stein is rock in Deutsch - how appropriate. His remarks and position make me wonder if he wasn't one of those 'Polish Altimeters'** in a previous life. ;)
Richard :munchin
** Olde HALO joke - you tie a 2200' piece of string to a rock and the other end to your wrist, and you throw it out of the aircraft ahead of you when you jump...and when the string goes slack, you 'pull'. :D
Well - the SPEC4 and I, for two...among all the others who were serving at that time. :p
I served during the Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, GHW Bush, and Clinton administrations - didn't agree with a lot of the things they said or did, but they were the CINCs and I had faith in the system; still do.
As do I. Especially in the function where we get to elect a new CINC if the current one sucks. :D
After reading some of the posts in this thread, I have changed my tune. I think this marine made a grave error, not in his critique of the POTUS, but the manner in which he did so. I am glad there are many others above him giving orders from the top down, so in essence he will not have the chance to defy the CINC. Still, this is one marine who swore to follow orders and defend us, and this now is a problem.
Anyways, thanks for all your posts on this subject and the learning experience for me in this instance.
After reading some of the posts in this thread, I have changed my tune. I think this marine made a grave error, not in his critique of the POTUS, but the manner in which he did so. I am glad there are many others above him giving orders from the top down, so in essence he will not have the chance to defy the CINC. Still, this is one marine who swore to follow orders and defend us, and this now is a problem.
Anyways, thanks for all your posts on this subject and the learning experience for me in this instance.
What happened? Michelle call your cell and chew your ass out? :D
What happened? Michelle call your cell and chew your ass out? :D
I offered to give her your number. I think you are next. :D
I offered to give her your number. I think you are next. :D
I doubt any toothless, redneck hillbillies with the Stars and Bars waving in their front pasture who live over 7 miles from the nearest tower are even on her "B" list, dude. :D
I doubt any toothless, redneck hillbillies with the Stars and Bars waving in their front pasture who live over 7 miles from the nearest tower are even on her "B" list, dude. :D
The pasture two miles east of this sign?
21453:D
Who's "we"? Gotta mouse in your pocket? :D
I've got a mouse in my hand and am not afraid to use it. :lifter
Politicians declare wars, soldiers fight them.
I've got a mouse in my hand and am not afraid to use it...
...when I've got a nearly empty bottle of Evan Williams in the other. :lifter
There, I finished your post for you. :D
Dozer523
03-24-2012, 14:20
[url] " . . . but when you join the military, you give up some of your rights," Rogers added. I realize I'm joining this conversation a little late but . . .
WHEN EXACTLY, did I sign over ANY of my rights?
I thought when I raised my hand I accepted the honor of dying for OUR rights. Well I did swear to defend the Constitution. I didn't say anything about "except for me."
In my civilian job I could post what a this or that my boss is (not that he is . . . he's an overflowing cup filled with with the creame of human dignity, he's CPT Lincoln Stern) but if I did he would be well within his rights to let me go. (maybe, not out an airlock but. . . ) That was the best part of a great movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHgMsvpFm08
tom kelly
03-24-2012, 17:09
I'm not a weather forecaster, but I would predict a shit storm after any Marine posts a Facebook entry stating he would not obey the orders of the President. The Marine weather forecaster not obeying orders is the least of our worries. Let's imagine the programers who wrote the code for the STUXNEX virus want to write a code to launch nuclear missles or write a code to overide a launch sequence....This type of info tech coding has been around for 10-12 years. Now it's out there in the public domain...Let's just worry about the Marine weather forecaster and the Air Force Sgt. who posed for Playboy Magazine. The important stuff....TK
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MARINE_FREE_SPEECH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-04-05-17-14-19
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) -- A military board has recommended dismissal for a Marine sergeant who criticized President Barack Obama on his Facebook page, including allegedly putting the president's face on a "Jackass" movie poster.
Snip
Guymullins
04-06-2012, 12:32
This guy is obviously a publicity hound. He'll prolly wind up making more money from the nororiety than he would by staying in.
The cold, hard fact will always remain that Obama, however incompetent he's judged to be, still holds the office of Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. You may think the man holding the office is a sack of maggoty dung from a thrice-accursed, syphillitic hyena, but you still gotta take a bullet for the office.
Er...Spotted Hyena, the Brown one is quite innocuous, doent have that cackling laugh and is quite shy and mostly nocturnal.
As an active duty Soldier, I have to respect the office. It does not matter what I think about the individual man.
Look at it this way, ever have a 1SG or a CSM that you thought didn't deserve the job? Of course you did.....we all have. What would happen if you showed that 1SG or CSM disrespect? He would smoke the living shit out of you, and you would deserve it.
You may not respect me but, you WILL respect my rank.
If this Marine gets the book thrown at him, he only has himself to blame.
Anyone remember the Clinton years? Fort Bragg was a ghost town. They were offering a 20 year retirement at 15. They were throwing people out left and right. Those times are going to return. With all the budget cuts that we are about to face, staying in is going to be a hard task.
sf
Anyone remember the Clinton years? Fort Bragg was a ghost town. They were offering a 20 year retirement at 15. They were throwing people out left and right. Those times are going to return. With all the budget cuts that we are about to face, staying in is going to be a hard task.
sf
'til the next Republican POTUS.
In 1874, General W.T. Sherman offered his view of professional soldiers getting involved in politics in a letter to his brother, John. Don't ever give any person the least encouragement to think I can be used for political ends. I have seen it poison so many otherwise good characters, that I am really more obstinate than ever.... Let those who are trained to it keep the office, and keep the Army and Navy as free from politics as possible.*
In 1898, General John Schofeld used his memoirs to make clear his view on civil military relations.[A] "free people" have nothing to fear from their army... the soldiers are ...among the most devoted and loyal citizens of the republic, and thoroughly imbued with the fundamental principle of subordination of the military to the civil power.**
MOO, in the years to come, the American professions of arms would do well to consider Sherman's and Schofeld's views, regardless of who is president or which political party has the upper hand.
My $0.02. YMMV.
________________________________________________
* W.T. Sherman to John Sherman, 28 August 1874 as printed in Rachel Sherman Thorndike, ed., The Sherman Letters: Correspondence Between General Sherman and Senator Sherman from 1837 to 1891, The American Scene: Comments and Commentators (A Da Capo Press Reprint Series), Wallace D. Farnham, general editor (New York: Da Capo Press, 1969), 340.
** John M. Schofield, Forty-Six Years in the Army (New York: The Century Company, 1898), 420-421.
IF the president doesn't get re-elected. Thats a big IF. The American people need to wake up and see what is happening to this county.
If PBO puts on the type of campaign he did last election, he will get re-elected.
Let's face it, none of the republican candidates are stellar. I wish they weren't so McCain like.
sf
IF the president doesn't get re-elected. Thats a big IF. The American people need to wake up and see what is happening to this county.
If PBO puts on the type of campaign he did last election, he will get re-elected.
Let's face it, none of the republican candidates are stellar. I wish they weren't so McCain like.
sf
Bro, I really don't think he will get re-elected, as long as it's fair. There's your big "if".
alright4u
04-07-2012, 17:03
I'm not a weather forecaster, but I would predict a shit storm after any Marine posts a Facebook entry stating he would not obey the orders of the President.
When in uniform shut mouth about politics. I recall CCS late 68 ,it may have still been Omega in late 68, and a number of us had absentee ballots. None of us cared about anything except more bombs. That is why we voted for Lemay and Wallace.
Wallace was not our hero. We just needed bombs and especially TAC AIR of any kind on our Daniel Boone OPS.
alright4u
04-07-2012, 19:00
That's what we said about Nix:Don !!!
Charlie really dispised those in the 6th Group who got all the training and never went to the 5th or SOG. I can hear him yelling-"They are smoking dope or doing drugs in our barracks." He was the Bull Simons of SF NCO's. I was damn proud to serve with him. He just saw certain SF MOS's taking too much time to qualify men and still send them to RVN.
@ Dusty, my idea of hope and change: I really hope there is a change in the White House in January.
sf
@ Dusty, my idea of hope and change: I really hope there is a change in the White House in January.
sf
If the Republicans want to win the Presidency, they need to focus on Obama's record, not contraception, racial turmoil, Augusta, blah.
Instead of woofing shit about the other candidates, somebody should have talked about solutions to the problems that haven't been fixed, but were exacerbated, in the last 3 years.
Agreed, there is not one thing he can run on from his first term.
If it were me, I would show the "60 Minutes" clip of him saying if he can't get the job done in 3 years, he should be a one term president over and over and over highlighting his poor record.
Everything else is a carnival show. Martin-Zimmerman, Augusta not letting women in, etc....all smoke and mirrors.
sf
The Reaper
04-08-2012, 08:04
If the Republicans want to win the Presidency, they need to focus on Obama's record, not contraception, racial turmoil, Augusta, blah.
Instead of woofing shit about the other candidates, somebody should have talked about solutions to the problems that haven't been fixed, but were exacerbated, in the last 3 years.
The Republicans do not set the agenda on what to talk about, the media does, and they are in the pockets of the Dims.
Otherwise, the media would have long ago noted that the POTUS seems to be long on criticism of others' plans while he doesn't really seem to have any fresh proposals of his own.
TR
Charlie really dispised those in the 6th Group who got all the training and never went to the 5th or SOG. I can hear him yelling-"They are smoking dope or doing drugs in our barracks." He was the Bull Simons of SF NCO's. I was damn proud to serve with him. He just saw certain SF MOS's taking too much time to qualify men and still send them to RVN.
Those of us in 6th Group, that I was associated with, mostly one tour Vets and frozen at E-4 while training group got the E-5 slots, were pissed too.
We joined the Army to fight an UNPOPULAR war, took crap from family and friends for "JOINING " the Army and busted our butts to get the best training in the world from some of the best instructors in the Armed Forces.
We expected to go overseas, only to be trapped at Fort Bragg, to pull endless rounds of KP, Guard duty, pick up pine cones , rake lines in the dirt, paint rocks and pull aggressor details, over and over til discharge.
Bad attitudes ? You bet.
Vietnam war , turned out we weren't in it to win it. :mad:
alright4u
04-08-2012, 11:50
Those of us in 6th Group, that I was associated with, mostly one tour Vets and frozen at E-4 while training group got the E-5 slots, were pissed too.
We joined the Army to fight an UNPOPULAR war, took crap from family and friends for "JOINING " the Army and busted our butts to get the best training in the world from some of the best instructors in the Armed Forces.
We expected to go overseas, only to be trapped at Fort Bragg, to pull endless rounds of KP, Guard duty, pick up pine cones , rake lines in the dirt, paint rocks and pull aggressor details, over and over til discharge.
Bad attitudes ? You bet.
Vietnam war , turned out we weren't in it to win it. :mad:
After reading your side of the story, I guess you really should be pissed and are entitled to your feelings.
Now, the war was not popular in 65-66 either, but; many still served, fought, and; they have no gripes today. In mid 68-mid 69 i saw things change a bit in 69.
I can tell you we kicked Charlie's damn ass and we did not lose. Only you know if you could have volunteered for SOG. Many waited for orders to the 5th group in 1970. That was not a good bet if one wanted combat. C&C Detachment required one to volunteer. The 5th group, like all units, was involved in Vietnamization by Aug 70-71. That Vietnamization almost destroyed my father on his last tour. He died in 86, but; he used to get damn mad about the Viets getting our best equipment and not knowing zip about it.
The Republicans do not set the agenda on what to talk about, the media does, and they are in the pockets of the Dims.
Otherwise, the media would have long ago noted that the POTUS seems to be long on criticism of others' plans while he doesn't really seem to have any fresh proposals of his own.
TR
Good point. The Republicans need to change SOP when dealing with the media.
The Republicans do not set the agenda on what to talk about, the media does, and they are in the pockets of the Dims.
I agree. I would also add that the birth control issue etc. will not wane in the media, especially considering that the current president of planned parenthood, Cecile Richards (Ann Richards daughter) was the deputy chief of staff for none other than Nancy Pelosi.
So I guess the question that needs to be asked is where is the line drawn with this guy. If the courts say he is in violation by posting anti Obama comments on facebook can they come after people on this forum that are active duty that make anti Obama comments?
This is Sparta.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/25/marines-discharge-sergeant-for-facebook-posts/
A sergeant will be discharged for criticizing President Barack Obama on Facebook in a case that called into question the Pentagon's policies about social media and its limits on the speech of active duty military personnel, the Marine Corps said Wednesday.
Sgt. Gary Stein will get an other-than-honorable discharge and lose most of his benefits for violating the policies, the Corps said.
The San Diego-area Marine who has served nearly 10 years in the Corps said he was disappointed by the decision. He has argued that he was exercising his free-speech rights.
"I love the Marine Corps, I love my job. I wish it wouldn't have gone this way. I'm having a hard time seeing how 15 words on Facebook could have ruined my nine-year career," he told The Associated Press.
Gary Kreep, an attorney for Stein, said he would pursue administrative appeals within the Marine Corps but anticipates the effort will be denied. He said he planned to file an amended complaint in federal court.
"As long as he wants to pursue this, we will be supporting him," said Kreep, who is executive director of the United States Justice Foundation, an advocacy group.
The Marines acted after saying Stein stated March 1 on a Facebook page used by Marine meteorologists, "Screw Obama and I will not follow all orders from him." Stein later clarified that statement saying he would not follow unlawful orders.
During a hearing, a military prosecutor submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on a "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," military prosecutor Capt. John Torresala said.
Brig. Gen. Daniel Yoo, the commanding general of the Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, gave no explanation for the decision in a brief statement.
At the hearing this month at Camp Pendleton, Torresala argued that Stein's behavior repeatedly violated Pentagon policy and should be dismissed after he ignored warnings from his superiors about his postings.
A federal judge previously denied a request to block military discharge proceedings against Stein.
Snip
Loose lips sink ships. Behold the power of the WWW, the media and O-7s and up. And then there is this:
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.