View Full Version : Sous-Vide method of cooking
Does anyone do this? I just learned about it and thought I might give it a try this summer.
It's slow cooking in water kept at the goal temperature. The food is vacuum sealed.
For a start (and to save money), I thought I'd try it by using the "beer cooler" (http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/04/cook-your-meat-in-a-beer-cooler-the-worlds-best-sous-vide-hack.html) method.
Here's a link (http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/03/how-to-sous-vide-steak.html) for doing steak.
Pat
This is a classical method of cooking, very popular in the 50-70's, now in vogue; what makes this method so attractive is the three methods of execution:
1. Advance preparation - total control over variables, seasons, finish temps, etc
2. Storage, endless possibilities.
3. Cryrovacing, hold in statis.
4. Cryroing becomes the technique in 160F^ water temperature circulation finish tempertures to presentation.
dr. mabuse
03-10-2012, 00:18
I'll try it next week. :munchin
Team Sergeant
03-10-2012, 09:43
I've done a whole lot of reading and research on the subject. Bought a book written by Thomas Keller, "Under Pressure" (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Under+Pressure+thomas+keller&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3395443262628286930&sa=X&ei=OXZbT8CLGeOriQLxvJGdCw&ved=0CFoQ8wIwAQ#) it's all about sous vide.
One extremely important issue with sous vide is "safety". Sous vide can go terribly wrong if you do not have a full understanding of food safety. Sous vide can be a perfect technique to breed deadly bacteria. Before you start I would suggest you do your due diligence first.
What do you intend to use as a immersion heater/circulator?
http://www.cuisinetechnology.com/sousvide-thermal-circulator.php
I've done a whole lot of reading and research on the subject. Bought a book written by Thomas Keller, "Under Pressure" (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Under+Pressure+thomas+keller&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3395443262628286930&sa=X&ei=OXZbT8CLGeOriQLxvJGdCw&ved=0CFoQ8wIwAQ#) it's all about sous vide.
One extremely important issue with sous vide is "safety". Sous vide can go terribly wrong if you do not have a full understanding of food safety. Sous vide can be a perfect technique to breed deadly bacteria. Before you start I would suggest you do your due diligence first.
What do you intend to use as a immersion heater/circulator?
http://www.cuisinetechnology.com/sousvide-thermal-circulator.php
That's why I was going to try it later this year; I need to study more. I thought I might use one of our crock pots with a PID.
Pat
Sheesh, $42 for that book, cheapest. Thanks for the warning, I'm looking into the food safety aspects. I'm going to try the beer cooler method, it looks like if you start with a large enough cooler the water temp remains remarkably stable.
What's your opinion on browning the meat first vs last? I'm seeing these commercial device sites recommending that you brown first, then vacuum seal, then ice bath to get the temp back down, then sous vide. Other places say forget that, just go from fridge to pouch to sous vide and then sear the meat right before you serve it. The latter seems a lot less work.
If the beer cooler method pans out I'll cobble something together. A cooler, adressable thermocouple to measure temp, a remote AC switch to control an immersion heater, a salt water aquarium pump, and a laptop to control the whole mess and I think I can replicate one of fancy shmancy units for under $75. I'd start the thing off with the water close to the correct temp, my guess is the commercial immersion pumps are sized to bring cold water up to temp and cope with the addition of cold meat periodically, neither of which I need.
Team Sergeant
03-10-2012, 13:42
Sheesh, $42 for that book, cheapest. Thanks for the warning, I'm looking into the food safety aspects. I'm going to try the beer cooler method, it looks like if you start with a large enough cooler the water temp remains remarkably stable.
What's your opinion on browning the meat first vs last? I'm seeing these commercial device sites recommending that you brown first, then vacuum seal, then ice bath to get the temp back down, then sous vide. Other places say forget that, just go from fridge to pouch to sous vide and then sear the meat right before you serve it. The latter seems a lot less work.
If the beer cooler method pans out I'll cobble something together. A cooler, adressable thermocouple to measure temp, a remote AC switch to control an immersion heater, a salt water aquarium pump, and a laptop to control the whole mess and I think I can replicate one of fancy shmancy units for under $75. I'd start the thing off with the water close to the correct temp, my guess is the commercial immersion pumps are sized to bring cold water up to temp and cope with the addition of cold meat periodically, neither of which I need.
Searing before or after, all depends on what you are doing. A steak should be seared after. Braised short ribs, lamb shanks etc. seared before. But I would experiment anyway!
I would also go the cooler route and maybe a laying a sheet of styrofoam on top to keep in the heat.
I did try the SV method for a soft boiled egg, yesterday morning, that I think is also described on the site I linked. It didn't work, but I'm pretty sure that the eggs probably were not room temperature when I started. I turned them into "poached" eggs instead. Still good! ;)
Basically, the whites harden at 155* and the yolk at 158*. In theory, if the temp is held at 155* the time shouldn't really matter, though the guy in the food lab deminstrated that it does after 6 minutes.
Found the link:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/03/the-food-lab-tonkotsu-ramen-part-how-to-make-ajitsuke-tamago-marinated-soft-boiled-eggs.html
ETA: After re-reading his test, he was using a much higher temperature.
Pat
I prefer sous-Weber.
Reminds me of putting water in LRRP chill con carne and sticking the pack in the leg pocket of my field pants. Took about 2 clicks to make it edible.
dr. mabuse
03-10-2012, 17:31
Unfortunately, don't have $1100+ for a hot water heater with precision thermostat and recirculate function. I'll look into it further. Maybe a converted Parkerizing tank set-up.
Will have to suffer this weekend with non-precision antique BBQ grill with mesquite, hickory and cherry wood and fingertip method and pedestrian T-bones ( very, very slow-cooked then quick seared ) in the back yard if the rain stops.
Season liberally ( not the steak ) with local neighborhood home-brewed beer.
Blue collar, but works for us. ( Le col un petit peu bleu, il travaille pour nous. ) :)
Team Sergeant
03-10-2012, 17:54
I prefer sous-Weber.
Reminds me of putting water in LRRP chill con carne and sticking the pack in the leg pocket of my field pants. Took about 2 clicks to make it edible.
Damn, you're making me hungry......
Tried the eggs again this morning. Eggs out of the fridge and into cold water. I put the pot on one of the simmer burners on low. I let the temp get to 160* then added tap water to bring it down to 155*. Held it between 155* and 157* for 30 minutes. I cracked them open and...had poached eggs again. :D
I think it will take at least an hour, probably more, to get them perfect. Next time I'll do room temperature eggs, water at 157*, and use a beer cooler (I need a new one anyway). I'd like to find the minimum time, so I'll put several in and take one out after 1 hour, then one every half hour until I'm happy, or my wife gets tired of eating poached eggs. ;)
Pat
Reminds me of putting water in LRRP chill con carne and sticking the pack in the leg pocket of my field pants. Took about 2 clicks to make it edible.
Now we're cookin
precision water bath with circ pump. Take your pick.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Healthcare-Lab-Life-Science-/11815/i.html?_sac=1&_from=R40&_nkw=water+bath
dr. mabuse
03-15-2012, 20:34
precision water bath with circ pump. Take your pick.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Healthcare-Lab-Life-Science-/11815/i.html?_sac=1&_from=R40&_nkw=water+bath
Ah so. :D
Badger52
03-16-2012, 11:47
Damn, you're making me hungry......
If anyone has the contributing sources you do; we're still waiting for "Cooking with Claymores" - a title too good to waste.
:D
here is a site which is focused on Sous-Vide and everything attached to Modern Cuisine.
http://modernistcuisine.com/2012/02/jimmy-kimmel-cryofrying-and-how-to-make-a-laser-omelet/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ModernistCuisineBlog+%28Moder nist+Cuisine+Blog%29
Click on buy for the cook books.
Chef Michael Mina, at the Mandalay Bay in LV, uses 120°F clarified butter:
The Stripsteak method
In the Mandalay Bay Hotel in Las Vegas, Chef Michael Mina's Stripsteak has a unique technique for reaching perfection on thick steaks.
Stripsteak begins by immersing the meat in baths of clarified butter at about 120°F. Clarified butter is unsalted butter that has had the water and milk solids removed. It is also called ghee.
After about an hour the meat is an even 120°F throughout, and when an order comes in he lifts it gently from the butter, shakes a bit off, turns around, and lays it it on a screaming hot topless Santa Maria style grill burning mesquite logs.
After a few minutes and several turns, the meat comes off the grill a deep dark almost black, but never burned, and the center, as you can see, is perfect medium rare, about 130°F, with almost no color variation.
Interestingly, the butter does not penetrate much so the butter flavor is minimal. It does contribute to a deep brown nutty crust, however. The steaks are among the finest I've ever tasted. But be careful if you attempt this at home. At 120°F bacteria flourish, just not in an airless environment.
Found at Amazing Ribs (http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/extreme_steak.html)
Pat
Team Sergeant
05-24-2012, 11:08
Chef Michael Mina, at the Mandalay Bay in LV, uses 120°F clarified butter:
Found at Amazing Ribs (http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/extreme_steak.html)
Pat
Sounds more like a steak "confit" than Sous-Vide.
Clarified butter is close but is not ghee.
I'm definitely trying this. :lifter
Hmmmm,
I'm liking this setup: http://54deg.com/
EDIT: This one looks even better: http://www.exasperatedcalculator.com/archives/2011/04/sous-vide-week-one/
Another controller: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13&products_id=183
Sounds more like a steak "confit" than Sous-Vide.
It does. But, it's CB and not rendered fat. I guess he bastardized the two methods. ;) Still sounds tasty, though!
Pat
After reading up on sous vide, I've decided to bite the bullet and order one (http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/). I contemplated the cooler method, but TS made some good points on food borne illness. Will let you know how things turn out.
After reading up on sous vide, I've decided to bite the bullet and order one (http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/). I contemplated the cooler method, but TS made some good points on food borne illness. Will let you know how things turn out.
So, have you used it yet, booker?
Pat
x SF med
11-05-2012, 14:47
I prefer sous-Weber.
Reminds me of putting water in LRRP chill con carne and sticking the pack in the leg pocket of my field pants. Took about 2 clicks to make it edible.
Depended on the ambient temp vs weight of ruck and time to tgt... you needed to add 15% layup/cooking(time?) for the spaghetti or beef/chicken with rice...
Oh, have I mentioned you make me sound old:mad::p
Pat, we use the supreme sous vide, its within a degree on the digital temp. The best book, imo is Kellers "Under Pressure", but you must have a cryorvac machine, and a good one, if you want the best results.
Chef Michael Mina, at the Mandalay Bay in LV, uses 120°F clarified butter:Pat
Pat,
I worked briefly for Chef Michael Mina in his Bourbon Steak Restaurant in Scottsdale:
http://www.fairmont.com/scottsdale/dining/bourbonsteak/
I can tell you we Sous-Vide the items on the menu, and they were not confit.
A very great Chef to work with, as he was humble, not arrogant about his status, and wanting to throw it around, as some Chefs do. He demanded great product consistently, which was a pleasure to suffer under...;)
A great Chef.
Hope your ventures in to this form of cooking turn out well, as it seems to be evolving from its traditional nature.
Holly
We are well pleased with ours. Like any new tool, it takes a little bit to figure it out.
Team Sergeant
11-15-2012, 13:33
Pat,
I worked briefly for Chef Michael Mina in his Bourbon Steak Restaurant in Scottsdale:
http://www.fairmont.com/scottsdale/dining/bourbonsteak/
I can tell you we Sous-Vide the items on the menu, and they were not confit.
A very great Chef to work with, as he was humble, not arrogant about his status, and wanting to throw it around, as some Chefs do. He demanded great product consistently, which was a pleasure to suffer under...;)
A great Chef.
Hope your ventures in to this form of cooking turn out well, as it seems to be evolving from its traditional nature.
Holly
Sorry Holly but you've no idea what you're talking about in reference to sous vide. The technique that I discussed before and the way Chef Michael Mina prepares his steaks has nothing to do with sous vide.
Confit = Meat (usually goose, duck, or pork) that has been gently cooked and preserved in its own fat. If you leave out the preserved part then Chef Michael Mina is actually employing a sort of confit method of preparing his steak.
Slow poached in butter, is the method Chef Michael Mina is employing and it even states it on his own website, the very one you posted.
When talking meats Sous vide is a dry cooking method that employs "vacuum sealing", gentle cooking over a "long" period of time to break down collagen. There is nothing chef Michael Mina is doing that even closely resembles sous vide.
Sous vide cooking is a technique that if not done right can produce food borne illnesses. Chef Michael Mina is warming the meat to the proper internal temperature and then grilling it all within an hour. The meats he talks about cooking here (http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/extreme_steak.html) is not sous vide. His cooking method would not produce the food borne illnesses associated with improper sous vide cooking as it's all done within the hour.
Please feel free to define confit and sous vide. And once you've read Chef Thomas Kellers book, "Under Pressure" come back and tell me chef Michael Mina is doing sous vide.
TS
Sorry Holly but you've no idea what you're talking about in reference to sous vide. The technique that I discussed before and the way Chef Michael Mina prepares his steaks has nothing to do with sous vide.
Confit = Meat (usually goose, duck, or pork) that has been gently cooked and preserved in its own fat. If you leave out the preserved part then Chef Michael Mina is actually employing a sort of confit method of preparing his steak.
Slow poached in butter, is the method Chef Michael Mina is employing and it even states it on his own website, the very one you posted.
When talking meats Sous vide is a dry cooking method that employs "vacuum sealing", gentle cooking over a "long" period of time to break down collagen. There is nothing chef Michael Mina is doing that even closely resembles sous vide.
Sous vide cooking is a technique that if not done right can produce food borne illnesses. Chef Michael Mina is warming the meat to the proper internal temperature and then grilling it all within an hour. The meats he talks about cooking here (http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/extreme_steak.html) is not sous vide. His cooking method would not produce the food borne illnesses associated with improper sous vide cooking as it's all done within the hour.
Please feel free to define confit and sous vide. And once you've read Chef Thomas Kellers book, "Under Pressure" come back and tell me chef Michael Mina is doing sous vide.
TS
You are absolutely right TS, I do not know what I am talking about, only what I have learned from the Chef's I have worked with, thus far. Sorry. :-(
In Mina's kitchen, it does say on the menu, slow poached in butter. In the kitchen, we used the Sous Vide machine on individual portions of vegetables, (at my station,) that included butter and herbs. They were then put in to a re-hydration machine at time of servie, for fresh presentation.
Using this machine during my time working in His kitchen led me to my conclusion that we Sous Vide. If this is in any way in-correct information that I was disseminating, my sincerest appologies.
Like many, I am always trying to learn when I am in the kitchen cooking something, or preparing it with a certain cooking method.
Thanky you for pointing out my mistake, and I will try in the future not to make any. And thank you for the recomendation of Under Pressure, I had not heard of it, but will start my research.
To put it more clearly, I was wrong!!! We Sous Vide Vegetables only, not meat, not anything having to do with meat, I was wrong! I know that TS knows what he is talking about when it comes to Culinary, and I was wrong to state anything contradictory to what he stated.
Holly
Team Sergeant
11-15-2012, 15:44
This thread was a discussion of sous vide. I pointed out the method PSM posted in post #18 was not a sous vide technique. It is in fact what Chef Michael Mina calls "butter poaching". And I would highly recommend that method for home cooks. Making the clarified butter might be the most difficult for first timers. Also keeping the butter at the correct temp while poaching would be another difficult task. I'd also make sure you pat dry the steak before throwing it on the grill....
I'm sure Chef Michael Mina sous vides his veggies, an absolutely outstanding method of cooking veggies, but that not what we were discussing.
No chef has taught me to cook using the sous vide method, I read Thomas Keller's book "Under Pressure (http://www.amazon.com/Under-Pressure-Cooking-Sous-Vide/dp/1579653510)" again and again until I understood what he was doing, how he was doing it and why.
Another great resource is a book called "The Science of Good Food (http://www.amazon.com/Science-Good-Food-Ultimate-Reference/dp/0778801896)" by Joachim and Schloss with A. Philip Handel, Ph.D
This book explains in great detail what happens to foods as they are being prepared. It also goes into detail about cooking methods. I highly recommend it to all cooks.
TS
Pat, we use the supreme sous vide, its within a degree on the digital temp. The best book, imo is Kellers "Under Pressure", but you must have a cryorvac machine, and a good one, if you want the best results.
Learned about the cryovac the hard way. The thermo had some issues, sent it back, waited a couple of weeks, then just had them send me a refund. Time did not make the heart fonder...
While it is a nice method of cooking, the amount of PITA it caused me wasn't worth it. Keller's book is amazing (all of them are). I'm going to go with an Orion cooker in the spring, maybe I'll revisit the sous vide after the memories fade.
Here are two different approaches/technique to fish cooking. The Salmon was Sous Vide @ 113^F for 12 minutes, remove for the (Zip Lock Bag) placed on Paper Towels, seasoned, wonder flour, Then quickly Sauteed-for color only.
The Snapper was Sauteed, the Veg was Sous Vide. If you are using the skin, you have to make it crisp, the only way is direct heat, so Sous Vide method is a no go with skin on.
Zip LOCK BAGS
We stopped using the Cryovac Machine for fish & meat. 1. Time consuming process. 2. Results were the same.
You remove 95% of the air by folding the bag over the protein, then sealing the strip. We use the double seal bags.
Edit to add: tonight I'll take some other pictures of setting the fish up for service.
Anyone tried using the propane torch method for things like getting a char on steaks and crisping fish skin post sous vide?
Fish Sous Vide
L>R This id the Halibut both in and out of the Bag after being cooked Sous Vide
2. Halibut Skin side up before removal from the bag.
3. Sous Vide Halibut & Salmon before being seared.
If you can zoom in, you'll notice how the albumen is just set, cooked perfectly.
(1VB)compforce
05-19-2014, 10:23
So I got the new (to me) sous vide water oven (sous vide supreme) and wanted to see if I would get the same results I've seen at some restaurants. Here's a 1.5" thick ribeye cooked sous vide for ~two hours at 136 F (for a final core temp of 134) followed by a quick sear in a very hot pan. I have to say I'm very impressed with the way that the entire steak came out medium rare as advertised rather than having the thick overcooked ring around the outside edge. There will definitely be a lot more of this style of cooking going on here in the future. BTW, I didn't take the picture until after I had eaten most of the meal so presentation isn't there...
On a side note, I got the book(s) Modernist Cuisine that Penn posted about quite a while ago and again earlier in this thread. There's some really good information in there although, as Penn mentioned, some of the equipment they use is out of reach for non-commercial cooks. I don't see a combi or vapor oven in my kitchen any time soon ($10k-$30k each) The photography in the books is amazing and the set came with several of the pictures sized for framing. They'll be hanging in the kitchen soon.
I was going to post this in "Who's Cooking What Today?" but this thread seemed more appropriate even though it was older.
Thanks for the report. This keeps slipping down my to-do list but I'm still eager to master it.
Pat
Thanks for the report. This keeps slipping down my to-do list but I'm still eager to master it.
Pat
You will.:
Team Sergeant
05-19-2014, 14:48
So I got the new (to me) sous vide water oven (sous vide supreme) and wanted to see if I would get the same results I've seen at some restaurants. Here's a 1.5" thick ribeye cooked sous vide for ~two hours at 136 F (for a final core temp of 134) followed by a quick sear in a very hot pan. I have to say I'm very impressed with the way that the entire steak came out medium rare as advertised rather than having the thick overcooked ring around the outside edge. There will definitely be a lot more of this style of cooking going on here in the future. BTW, I didn't take the picture until after I had eaten most of the meal so presentation isn't there...
On a side note, I got the book(s) Modernist Cuisine that Penn posted about quite a while ago and again earlier in this thread. There's some really good information in there although, as Penn mentioned, some of the equipment they use is out of reach for non-commercial cooks. I don't see a combi or vapor oven in my kitchen any time soon ($10k-$30k each) The photography in the books is amazing and the set came with several of the pictures sized for framing. They'll be hanging in the kitchen soon.
I was going to post this in "Who's Cooking What Today?" but this thread seemed more appropriate even though it was older.
134 degrees??? The whole idea is not to have the proteins seize up! ;)
(1VB)compforce
05-19-2014, 15:12
134 degrees??? The whole idea is not to have the proteins seize up! ;)
It was my first time cooking this way and I was concerned about the safety side. As I get more comfortable, I'll adapt.
I personally don't like beef too fleshy so this was only slightly more done than I would want it anyhow. I might go as low as 130, but no lower for my own dinner.
I am glad this topic got a bump, I may not try Sous-Vide cooking but am going to clarify some butter and grill some steaks. Can anyone tell me if the butter can be reused?
Thanks for taking the time to post that report on the method you used, but as TS indicated your process is a bit off.
To correct that and approach the method properly buy or look on line for Thomas Keller's book "Under Pressure", Amazon has the book used for $12.00 dollars.
Pay particular attention to his time and temperatures, cataloged in the glossary as they relate to different products. His temperatures are spot on, but require the exact same equipment to execute properly. That said, I have two of the Sous Vide units you have (reconditioned 1/2 price from the company), they work perfectly, but only if I am diligently prepping the items to be Sous Vide correctly. We do NY Strips at either 130^F for 30 Minutes = Rare, or 140^F for 40 Minutes = Medium. We then quickly sear all edges on the plaque, then rest on a screen, prior to being served.
imho, it's the only way to cook meat. Especially, if you want a perfect edge to edge sear. When we grill any meat over an open wood and charcoal grill, it is first Sous Vide. The result of the slow controlled temperature cooking process, then grilling, renders mind boggling extraordinary results.
(1VB)compforce
08-14-2014, 05:06
Thanks for taking the time to post that report on the method you used, but as TS indicated your process is a bit off.
To correct that and approach the method properly buy or look on line for Thomas Keller's book "Under Pressure", Amazon has the book used for $12.00 dollars.
Pay particular attention to his time and temperatures, cataloged in the glossary as they relate to different products. His temperatures are spot on, but require the exact same equipment to execute properly. That said, I have two of the Sous Vide units you have (reconditioned 1/2 price from the company), they work perfectly, but only if I am diligently prepping the items to be Sous Vide correctly. We do NY Strips at either 130^F for 30 Minutes = Rare, or 140^F for 40 Minutes = Medium. We then quickly sear all edges on the plaque, then rest on a screen, prior to being served.
imho, it's the only way to cook meat. Especially, if you want a perfect edge to edge sear. When we grill any meat over an open wood and charcoal grill, it is first Sous Vide. The result of the slow controlled temperature cooking process, then grilling, renders mind boggling extraordinary results.
Thanks Penn. I'll have to add that one to the library. I want to try some of the recipes out of Modernist Cuisine but haven't gotten there yet. I've only read the first 2-1/2 volumes so far.
For the first time I was using the guide that came with the machine. It said 1 hour and hold in the machine for up to 3 more. My guests were late arriving which is where the extra time came from. I'll definitely adjust my times down as I get more comfortable with it.
How do you deal with wet food like a marinated steak? The little vacuum sealer I have tries to suck all the liquid out and ends up getting a crappy seal. Do you use a chamber sealer or just stick with ziplocks and not worry about the vacuum part?
How do you deal with wet food like a marinated steak? The little vacuum sealer I have tries to suck all the liquid out and ends up getting a crappy seal. Do you use a chamber sealer or just stick with zip locks and not worry about the vacuum part?
When we have marinated, which is very rare for us to do, we use zip lock bags.
On the most expensive book set you'll ever buy, a $625.00 investment, I'm not terribly impressed, mainly, its more of a primer for the non-professional. This will become apparent as you delve further into the world of Sous Vide cooking and discover that it is just another culinary technique to use at your discretion.
(1VB)compforce
08-14-2014, 07:50
When we have marinated, which is very rare for us to do, we use zip lock bags.
On the most expensive book set you'll ever buy, a $625.00 investment, I'm not terribly impressed, mainly, its more of a primer for the non-professional. This will become apparent as you delve further into the world of Sous Vide cooking and discover that it is just another culinary technique to use at your discretion.
Thanks, I've been going back and forth on getting a chamber sealer. I'll stick with ziploc for now.
I agree with your assessment of the book/volumes. I have picked up a few things from it that have helped out with refining my technique. Probably the most valuable so far was the way intrinsic water can be manipulated to affect the results. Interestingly, even during my brief tenure at culinary school, that was never really discussed. The focus there was on how heat affects the product's protiens or fibers. Yes, using liquid nitrogen or an autoclave is interesting, but I don't see me ever stocking it in my house. I play with a lot of the molecular stuff so I have all kinds of esoteric books that cover the topic. Everything from Molecular Cuisine(Herve This) to Texture (Martin Lersch http://blog.khymos.org/recipe-collection/ ) I don't consider the big expense to be a waste, just low ROI.
Team Sergeant
08-14-2014, 10:47
Thanks, I've been going back and forth on getting a chamber sealer. I'll stick with ziploc for now.
You might want to use a food saver as your vacuum sealer, a whole lot cheaper than a $600-3000 vacuum sealer.
And as Penn said Thomas Keller's book "Under Pressure", well worth the money if your doing sous vide. And if you're not a chef or have not taken a food safety class or food safety manager ensure you read Chef Keller's safety tips concerning sous vide.
(1VB)compforce
08-14-2014, 11:00
You might want to use a food saver as your vacuum sealer, a whole lot cheaper than a $600-3000 vacuum sealer.
And as Penn said Thomas Keller's book "Under Pressure", well worth the money if your doing sous vide. And if you're not a chef or have not taken a food safety class or food safety manager ensure you read Chef Keller's safety tips concerning sous vide.
Thanks! I'm very interested in these types of techniques and appreciate you and Penn spending the time to give feedback.
The Food Saver is the one that I have that vacuums the liquid up and doesn't seal right with wetter foods. The other option I have is to get the accessory kit, but the bags that have a built-in valve are pretty pricy. If I bought the chamber sealer I'm looking at, I'd save the cost of the sealer in less than a year.
I've ordered Under Pressure already, it'll be here on Saturday. I'm looking forward to it.
I've got my Food Manager certification from ServSafe and regularly read all food safety material in all the books, especially when looking at a new technique. I dropped out of culinary school over their food safety practices in the classroom. I definitely take that part seriously.
Team Sergeant
08-14-2014, 11:32
Thanks! I'm very interested in these types of techniques and appreciate you and Penn spending the time to give feedback.
The Food Saver is the one that I have that vacuums the liquid up and doesn't seal right with wetter foods. The other option I have is to get the accessory kit, but the bags that have a built-in valve are pretty pricy. If I bought the chamber sealer I'm looking at, I'd save the cost of the sealer in less than a year.
I've ordered Under Pressure already, it'll be here on Saturday. I'm looking forward to it.
I've got my Food Manager certification from ServSafe and regularly read all food safety material in all the books, especially when looking at a new technique. I dropped out of culinary school over their food safety practices in the classroom. I definitely take that part seriously.
Then you're cleared hot to sous vide!!! (I'm also a Food Safety Manager certified)
Time to use your benefits and try another culinary school! My school was the opposite, cleaner than clean and there they would cite you for bad food safety practices.
I have two of these ovens and have just purchased another. I can Fwd the email to you if interested, as its not posted on their site, or as a certified knuckle dagger failed to orient myself properly to locate the ad.
$429 reduces to $249 If you like color they are priced at $199 Argue for free shipping
REFURBISHED WATER OVEN SALE
Save 40%!
Order now while limited quantities last!
We have a very limited number of refurbished water ovens available as a special deal exclusively for our valued email subscribers.
(1VB)compforce
02-18-2015, 11:58
Then you're cleared hot to sous vide!!! (I'm also a Food Safety Manager certified)
Time to use your benefits and try another culinary school! My school was the opposite, cleaner than clean and there they would cite you for bad food safety practices.
Broke down and bought the chamber sealer (Vacmaster VP112). I have to say it's totally different than just using ziplocs. For one thing you can shape the food, which really helps with presentation. For another, even with sealing meats in the food saver, the blood would get into the seal about half the time. I'm not a fan of the "freeze and seal" method since the texture gets screwed up by the ice crystals forming and then thawing. I'll definitely get enough use out of the sealer over the next year to justify the cost.
The one down side is that the thing is huge. Weighing in at 90 pounds and the size of two burners on the stove, but longer than the 30" countertop, I won't be moving it around that much.
1VB, can you please post a picture of your vacuum sealer. I like to see difference, if there is one, to the unit I have.
(1VB)compforce
02-18-2015, 12:43
1VB, can you please post a picture of your vacuum sealer. I like to see difference, if there is one, to the unit I have.
Same one they have on the sous vide supreme site. Cheaper through Amazon though... and GBF gets their donation.
I have that exact machine, if anyone wants it, send me a check for $200 + shipping and its yours.
(1VB)compforce
02-18-2015, 12:48
I have that exact machine, if anyone wants it, send me a check for $200 + shipping and its yours.
Oh, now you tell me :p
Seriously though, do you just not use it or is there something you don't like about it?
I have two of these ovens and have just purchased another. I can Fwd the email to you if interested, as its not posted on their site, or as a certified knuckle dagger failed to orient myself properly to locate the ad.
$429 reduces to $249 If you like color they are priced at $199 Argue for free shipping
REFURBISHED WATER OVEN SALE
Save 40%!
Order now while limited quantities last!
We have a very limited number of refurbished water ovens available as a special deal exclusively for our valued email subscribers.
Thanks for the heads-up, D. I just ordered one. ;)
Pat
You are going to hate this. My experience is zip locks work the best for me, the vacuum does exactly what it is designed for, but requires time, which is limited in this kitchen.
Also, we have discover that if we roll the zip locks and extract 95% of the air, there is no difference in the result, or its so marginal there's no impact on quality. Mind you, I only use my Sous Vide for meat and fish. Unlike you, I have never frozen water in a bag, when I can retrieve ice from the freezer in cute little trays. :D
And yes $200. + shipping owns it. I think the savings is $6-800. dollars iirc
Actually, it's being able to use ZipLocs that sealed the deal, so to speak. The wife would have balked at getting a vacuum sealer, too. :D
Pat
PSM, so you ordered a Sous Vide oven? Never mind, I reread your post. Have fun with it, you'll be amazed by the results and texture of meats when cooked this way. Especially, if you are a rare to medium rare guy.
PSM, so you ordered a Sous Vide oven?
Yes, sir!
Pat
(1VB)compforce
02-18-2015, 15:43
Also, we have discover that if we roll the zip locks and extract 95% of the air, there is no difference in the result, or its so marginal there's no impact on quality. Mind you, I only use my Sous Vide for meat and fish. Unlike you, I have never frozen water in a bag, when I can retrieve ice from the freezer in cute little trays. :D
Aha... that's where we differ. You can't compress fruit or de-gas liquids in a zip lock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQwphCnFdak Also, as a single guy, it's nearly impossible to buy anything in small enough portions... Take celery as an example. I use like two stalks in a pot of stock. What happens to the rest? It sits in the fridge until it goes bad and then gets tossed out, usually long before the next pot of stock is made. Vacuum sealing the celery lets me keep it pretty much forever, or at least long enough that I actually use it all. Price of celery: 1.25ish Price of a bag for the sealer <.01 That's at least 1.24 in savings and usually more like 2.48. Add that up over all the things that go bad in my fridge each year and it probably will end up saving me $1000+ this year.
BTW, I didn't freeze the water, I just wanted to make sure I didn't end up with an unsealed bag of liquid like with the food saver. I did however freeze a couple of bags of beef stock for later use... but then I'm sure you have those in the cute little trays too, right next to the pesto. BTW, I don't have trays, I have this new invention called an ice maker :D
(1VB)compforce
02-18-2015, 15:47
And yes $200. + shipping owns it. I think the savings is $6-800. dollars iirc
This is a good deal if anyone is looking... It was about $630 for mine
Have fun with it, you'll be amazed by the results and texture of meats when cooked this way. Especially, if you are a rare to medium rare guy.
I started this thread, so I figured it was time to jump in and do it. Thank you for the info on the refurbished cookers, Chef. (Good timing, too. My wife wants to spend +/- $5,000 on a new range. She couldn't refuse me. :lifter) ;)
Pat
PSM, How big a range do you need? If you forward the exact information and requirements for your particular set up, off grid I believe, I would like to research that for you.
My purpose in doing so is to gain knowledge and expand my design consultancy. If I've understood your explanation of how your system works, and what special needs, limits, apply to solar, I will be better suited for the future, although my instinct is commercial cooking equipment future is inductive, as it only use energy when in use, unlike gas or propane.
mark46th
02-19-2015, 17:48
PSM- Look to see if any JuCo's or cooking schools or local health agencies have HACCP classes. (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points)
PSM, How big a range do you need? If you forward the exact information and requirements for your particular set up, off grid I believe, I would like to research that for you.
My purpose in doing so is to gain knowledge and expand my design consultancy. If I've understood your explanation of how your system works, and what special needs, limits, apply to solar, I will be better suited for the future, although my instinct is commercial cooking equipment future is inductive, as it only use energy when in use, unlike gas or propane.
PM sent!
Pat
PSM- Look to see if any JuCo's or cooking schools or local health agencies have HACCP classes. (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points)
I've got my CIA NPC 6th Edition handy. I'll revisit the Food and Kitchen Safety chapter. ;)
Thanks!
Pat
I gave this a try last night. I used a digital thermometer, pot, and zip locks on the stove top. I set the water temp to 140. It maintained well and was easily regulated, electric stove. 2 hour cook time, then Pan seared with olive oil. Seasoning was sea salt and pepper. The steaks were cooked uniformly throughout and very tender. I cant say that this method beats the taste of a steak cooked over charcoal, but I do think that this was the best "indoor" steak I have had. I also cooked asparagus, as a side, in the water bath and it was great.
(1VB)compforce
02-20-2015, 07:14
I gave this a try last night. I used a digital thermometer, pot, and zip locks on the stove top. I set the water temp to 140. It maintained well and was easily regulated, electric stove. 2 hour cook time, then Pan seared with olive oil. Seasoning was sea salt and pepper. The steaks were cooked uniformly throughout and very tender. I cant say that this method beats the taste of a steak cooked over charcoal, but I do think that this was the best "indoor" steak I have had. I also cooked asparagus, as a side, in the water bath and it was great.
I'm sure it came out fine, but that is a very unsafe way to do sous vide. If you are going to do it stove top, you should use a thermal circulator. http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=thermal+circulator
The problem with the way you did it is that the heat is coming from the bottom. The deeper in the water you temp, the hotter the water is. It will cook unevenly and you can end up with pockets in the meat that never reached a safe temperature, especially if you are going for the "just cooked" temps that are the purpose behind this technique. Chicken or pork cooked the way you did is a real risk for food borne illness. A circulator moves the water so it stays roughly even throughout and solves this problem. The sous vide supreme that you see us talking about does the same thing through a deliberate design to promote convection in the water. You don't get the same results from a round pot.
Also, the precision of the thermometer you used is plus or minus 3 (2.6) degrees. The thermometers used in sous vide are lab grade thermometers with a variance of no more than one degree. As you go for less cooked/rarer meat, it's easy to slip into that unsafe territory because of the thermometer variance.
I applaud your attempt and certainly would encourage you to try sous vide, but just wanted to make sure you are staying safe when you do. I'd hate for anyone to get sick because we hadn't pointed out the food safety aspects. (TS did point that out when I was talking with him earlier in the thread). Penn (I assume), TS and I all have food safety certifications and have solid knowledge of/professional instruction in the differences in cook times and bacterial degradation at various temperatures. It's worth reading up on if you are going to keep doing sous vide, if for no other reason than the effects of even minor food borne illnesses are unpleasant to say the least.
+1 with 1VB, you got a free ride this time, chance favors your technique to increase the risk of E-Coli and Salmonella typhi greatly. Especially, if you sear after the fact.
Buy the equipment. There is a sale right now, the info is in this thread. You can get a model for $199 in red or black.
Thank you both for the warning. Is there a safe way to try this method without purchasing any equipment?
I was worried about food borne pathogens but I tried to minimize the risks.
Some of the things that I did to help minimize the risks were.
1, Smallest pot possible
2: least amount of water as possible to minimize heat striation
3: Thin steaks for extended time, (not sure about this one, trying to thoroughly heat )
4: Due to work, my Thermometers are Scientific and NIST traceable.
5: Steaks were individually bagged, and stacked atop of each other. Clean wash cloths were used between each bag to promote heat transfer to the water. One cloth was placed on the bottom of the pot so that the bottom bag would not contact any direct heat.
I just wanted to try the method and did not want to invest in a dedicated cooker to do this.
The Beer cooler method scares the hell out of me.
(1VB)compforce
02-20-2015, 20:39
Thank you both for the warning. Is there a safe way to try this method without purchasing any equipment?
I was worried about food borne pathogens but I tried to minimize the risks.
Some of the things that I did to help minimize the risks were.
1, Smallest pot possible
2: least amount of water as possible to minimize heat striation
3: Thin steaks for extended time, (not sure about this one, trying to thoroughly heat )
4: Due to work, my Thermometers are Scientific and NIST traceable.
5: Steaks were individually bagged, and stacked atop of each other. Clean wash cloths were used between each bag to promote heat transfer to the water. One cloth was placed on the bottom of the pot so that the bottom bag would not contact any direct heat.
I just wanted to try the method and did not want to invest in a dedicated cooker to do this.
The Beer cooler method scares the hell out of me.
The short answer is no. There are some hacks out there using a crock pot and a circulator but the current sale on the sous vide supreme puts it in the same price range as the circulators so it works out the same or cheaper to buy the real equipment if you get them on sale. Here's how it's done for those that are curious: http://www.howtogeek.com/93983/hack-a-crock-pot-into-a-sous-vide-cooker/
Take a look at your thermometer. You see the dimple on the post? The actual temperature is taken about 2/3 of the way down from that dimple toward the point. See the picture below for reference. The dimple is meant to be the minimum depth that you sink the thermometer into whatever you're measuring. When you temp the water with a thermometer like that unless it is a true scientific thermometer that supports multi-layered readings, you are only taking the temp at one level, not an overall average.
Also, when you cook sous vide, you want space between the bags so that water can move between them. That keeps the temperature even throughout. Your washcloths would cause it not to move and so would be cooler at the center. They defeat the purpose of sous vide. In the supreme, there is a rack that ensures that there is space between the bags. You'd be better off just letting the bags float freely.
What you are describing isn't sous vide, it's a lower temperature version of the old boil in a bag meals. There's a world of difference. The point in sous vide is to cook low and slow with all indirect heat at precise temperatures to get perfect results every time. 99% of the time when you cook meat sous vide, you are cooking it in the high 120s or low 130s (for beef) in the low to mid 140's (pork) and high 140s to low 150's(for chicken) and 115 for fish. To put that in perspective, the FDA numbers are: 145 for beef, pork and fish and 165 for poultry.(http://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/mintemp.html) When you are cooking sous vide, you are going a great deal lower, but for a longer time than the recomendations are based on. You better know what you're doing when you make a conscious decision to go under the "safe temperatures" For example, the tenderloin in the second picture was done at 132 for 40 minutes for a whole tenderloin cut into thirds (about 5 pounds total).
When you're doing sous vide, you're flirting with the safe zone. A couple degrees off or 5 minutes too short and you'll be spending the evening in either the bathroom or the emergency room. Do you really want to take chances with it?
edit - for TS and Penn, yes, I know the minimum temps that are used commercially are different than the ones cited. I'd rather post the official government "home use" numbers for something like this.
FWIW, I started out with a crock pot hack myself about 1 1/2 years ago. There's a huge difference when you get the right equipment. I learned the importance of the food safety part of it the hard way, really quickly.
Got my SV Supreme yesterday and made boneless chicken thighs last night. Nothing fancy, just salt, pepper, garlic, and butter. When it was done, I tossed them on the grill for about a minute a side while my wife reduced the juices with some tyme. Tasty. The biggest change seems to be the prep.
Ribeye tonight! ;)
Pat
Ribeye tonight! ;)
Pat
FAIL! Sorta. I SVed them at 133° for med-rare knowing that I'd sear them after. After searing on the grill they came out medium which is fine with my wife but not for me. The searing went about 3 minutes because I was going for a photo-op cross hatch on the top. Maybe searing first is better? :confused:
Pat
It's not a true fail if you still ate them.
Here is the method we use.
Grill white coal hot with some flame and the grills are within 2" of the coals.
1.Oil and season the meat.
2. Place the meat on the grills very close but not touching. This concentrates the heat and flame as the fat melts onto the coals.
3.Turn the meat every minute or so, on all side, that means the edges are sear too. we are not interested in "cooking the meat", we are interested in getting it seared, marked, transferring and infusing the meat with the wood and charcoal flavor.
4. When that is completed, we immediately put the meat in the appropriate size zip lock bag, and drop them into an "Ice bath", to stop the cooking process.
Our goal is an edge to edge sear, not a cooked state, R, MR, MED, or WD. Once cooled 10 minutes or so, we drop them into the Sous Vide @ 139.5^F for 40 Minutes. The results is perfectly executed grilled Filet's, NY Sirloins, or Rib eyes, that will recalibrate your understanding of what a great steak taste and texture should be.
(1VB)compforce
02-25-2015, 07:30
It's not a true fail if you still ate them.
Here is the method we use.
Grill white coal hot with some flame and the grills are within 2" of the coals.
1.Oil and season the meat.
2. Place the meat on the grills very close but not touching. This concentrates the heat and flame as the fat melts onto the coals.
3.Turn the meat every minute or so, on all side, that means the edges are sear too. we are not interested in "cooking the meat", we are interested in getting it seared, marked, transferring and infusing the meat with the wood and charcoal flavor.
4. When that is completed, we immediately put the meat in the appropriate size zip lock bag, and drop them into an "Ice bath", to stop the cooking process.
Our goal is an edge to edge sear, not a cooked state, R, MR, MED, or WD. Once cooled 10 minutes or so, we drop them into the Sous Vide @ 139.5^F for 40 Minutes. The results is perfectly executed grilled Filet's, NY Sirloins, or Rib eyes, that will recalibrate your understanding of what a great steak taste and texture should be.
139? How thick are the steaks you're cooking? That seems really high to me.
Filet are usually cut to 2" - 2 1/2", NY Strips are cut 1 1/14" minimum, and the same for Rib Eyes.
This is the searing process we use to prep the meat prior to place the portions in the Sous Vide.
Top L>R
S1. The meat has been placed on the plaque.
S2> S3 is the searing process, you can see the effect of the edge to edge in the third slide, top row, third cut.
S4 examples the same.
S5 clearly demonstrates the technique and S6, the finish searing process.
My apology for the very poor image, I'll upload a better shot tomorrow, but this image shows a finished edge to edge sear of a steak cooked to medium. The sear is paper thin, and that is what we shoot for.
Lamb rack are processes the exact same way.
The Sous Vide sale afforded me the opportunity to execute Fish, Meats, and Vegetables simultaneously. The exactness or correctness of cooking to order at the prefect temperatures is off the charts.
(1VB)compforce
03-05-2015, 09:59
very nice Penn. I wish I had enough room in the kitchen for three or four of them.
OK! Nailed rib-eye tonight. My birthday is in a couple of weeks and our son is coming to visit then. We always do steak and lobster so today my wife went shopping and bought a ton of rib-eyes (ok, 10 pounds) and I cooked one tonight as another test.
I like med-rare leaning toward the rare side. My wife is med-rare toward the medium side. I SVed the steak at 125° then grilled her's 2 minutes a side and mine 1 minute a side and they came out perfect.
I can see why Chef F has three, or more, though.
Pat
PSM, as noted by TS in a previous thread, 125^F is a dangerous temperature. You MUST be above 133^F, in not, the chance of e-coli, or another bacterial infection is greatly increased.
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/food-technology/bacterial-food-poisoning/
http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/_Documents/science/sous_vide_food_safey_precautions.pdf
Conversion scale:https://www.google.com/search?q=131+degrees+Fahrenheit&oq=55%C2%B0C&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i64j0l3.3562j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
Per NSW
The risks associated with sous vide foods will be reduced if:
• thinner portions of food are prepared so that heating and cooling are rapid.
• water bath temperatures of at least 55°C are used so that the growth of Clostridium
perfringens is first prevented and then destruction of the cells commences.
• the time food is held at temperatures below 54.5°C during cooking is limited to 6
hours.
• professional equipment with adequate heating capacity and excellent temperature
control is used.
• water and/or food temperatures are checked using a tip sensitive digital
thermometer that is accurate to 0.1°C.
• prepared foods are not stored for extended times unless processes have been
validated.
• risks are not compounded. Cooking large portions of mechanically tenderised meat
for extended times at low temperatures would be irresponsible.
• if you choose to include on your menu foods that remain essentially raw they should
only be served following a request by an informed, healthy adult who willingly
accepts the risks associated with raw foods.
New practitioners of sous vide must be aware of the food safety risks and avoid overly
experimental applications of the technology.
PSM, as noted by TS in a previous thread, 125^F is a dangerous temperature. You MUST be above 133^F, in not, the chance of e-coli, or another bacterial infection is greatly increased.
It was, after the time on the grill. I used the thermometer as usual. The grill time was what was overcooking the meat. Plus, the meat was cut in our kitchen.
Pat
Team Sergeant
06-19-2015, 09:53
Any all governments will tell you to over cook food to kill everything. They have been telling folks to overcook pork for decades, now the "government" temp (USDA) for pork is 140 degrees. Yes, you can eat pink pork.
Except for the outside sear, I rarely cook my steaks over 125. Same goes for my standing rib roast, I pull it at 120.
E coli, I'll deal with it when it comes, so far so good. I eat live oysters too..... ;)
NSW Food Authority????
"Responsible to the Minister for Primary Industries, the NSW Food Authority administers and implements national and state food legislation, including the Australia New Zealand Food Standards Code (the Code) and the Food Act 2003 (NSW), as well as a range of food safety schemes in the NSW Food Regulation 2010, which regulate key high risk industry sectors."
mark46th
06-19-2015, 16:41
Irradiation works best for killing germs. Most people don't like the idea but it doesn't bother me. I kind of enjoy my glow in the dark piss.
TS, PSM, Here we can't afford the risk. Our method is direct and simple. We first sear the meat on all sides, then we rapidly chill. We use two methods to chill. One is in the freezer, and one is the ice bath. Once the product has been chilled, we sous vide for 40 minutes at 139/140^F, or 60^C for 40 minutes. In the following manner.
Since all of the orders are processed to order, items are removed from the refrigerator, where they are stored after the above steps have been taken, and then place in the sous vide. No fails and no sick calls.
Made St. Louis style ribs in the SV at 132°. Put my usual rub on it and some SBR's sauce and cooked it about 60 hours. I put it on the grill with additional sauce and grilled it 15 minutes. It pulled off the bone about a half an inch in that time. But, it was so tender that it stuck to the grill.
Bottom line, next time I will just SV with the rub because the juices diluted the sauce. I'll sauce before grilling with my own sauce. I'm not sure if I needed to go 60 hours but, since we live off-grid on solar and batteries, I allowed for the possibility that I’d have to shut it down and chill the ribs and re-cook later. It was not a problem as the SV uses very little power once up to temp.
All in all, a very good Independence Day meal. ;)
Pat
Refurbs on sale again: https://blu177.mail.live.com/?tid=cm8MQmIbQv5RGWTwAjfeM2DA2&fid=flinbox $249.
This is what I paid for mine and it was well worth it. Full price is $429.
Pat
Have the FoodSaver 4840 2-in-1 Vacuum Sealing System which has saved me some serious $$$!:lifter
Just ordered the Anova Culinary Precision Cooker (Black). (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UKPBXM4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00)
Have the FoodSaver 4840 2-in-1 Vacuum Sealing System which has saved me some serious $$$!:lifter
Just ordered the Anova Culinary Precision Cooker (Black). (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UKPBXM4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00)
I recommended the Anova to my sister who didn't want to spend the money on the SV Supreme. Now she's not sure if she wants to spend any money on a cooking method that she doesn't understand. :D
For those who don't want to spend money on a vacuum sealer, Ziploc makes vacuum bags that use a hand pump: http://www.walmart.com/ip/12443047?reviews_limit=7& They are what I use.
Pat
Team Sergeant
09-06-2015, 09:43
Have the FoodSaver 4840 2-in-1 Vacuum Sealing System which has saved me some serious $$$!:lifter
Just ordered the Anova Culinary Precision Cooker (Black). (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UKPBXM4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00)
Racist.......:munchin
Racist.......:munchinI'll make sure the first meat SousVide is white....:eek::D
For those who don't want to spend money on a vacuum sealer...
In our professional kitchen, we use Ziploc bags exclusively, no pump.
By folding/rolling the bag with the protein, we extract 95% of the air. We employ this method every day, with fish, meat, and vegetables.
In our professional kitchen, we use Ziploc bags exclusively, no pump.
By folding/rolling the bag with the protein, we extract 95% of the air. We employ this method every day, with fish, meat, and vegetables.I've noticed that it compressed the salmon making it feel dense.:eek:
Looking at your photo stream, I would think you pot was to small, and the salmon was of questionable quality. That said, with the same product, increase the seize of the pot and see if a different result occurs.
Also, for salmon 113^F for 10 mikes. Remove from bag sear and serve.
Team Sergeant
09-13-2015, 09:26
Looking at your photo stream, I would think you pot was to small, and the salmon was of questionable quality. That said, with the same product, increase the seize of the pot and see if a different result occurs.
Also, for salmon 113^F for 10 mikes. Remove from bag sear and serve.
I'd agree the pot is too small but the quality of the fish without tasting, or seeing it raw is hard to tell. :rolleyes:
Net time Guy I'd better see a Lemon Beurre Blanc on that plate with your salmon.....:munchin ;)
TS, of course you are correct, that without the fish in front of us the judgement is unwarranted. But, would bet good money that the salmon was not procured from a specialty shop, and is a farmed fish, not wild caught. Possibly a Sams, or similar store purchase. Nothing wrong with that, but you can tell by the lack of albumen shine that a fish displays when removed from a bag.
See post #34
Team Sergeant
09-13-2015, 10:31
TS, of course you are correct, that without the fish in front of us the judgement is unwarranted. But, would bet good money that the salmon was not procured from a specialty shop, and is a farmed fish, not wild caught. Possibly a Sams, or similar store purchase. Nothing wrong with that, but you can tell by the lack of albumen shine that a fish displays when removed from a bag.
See post #34
Different albumen.....;)
(Damn you made me do research again! ;))
The words albumen and albumin have the same origin but are not identical in meaning. Albumen refers specifically to egg white or the protein found in egg white.
Albumin, on the other hand, refers to the more general category of protein that is soluble in water and that is coagulated on heating, of which albumen is just one type.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/albumen
Really, nice to know, but must admit it was a spelling error. I did not know albumen, was specific to eggs only, or that there were two definitions, I was under the impression that it was a general term for protein in blood.
Looking at your photo stream, I would think you pot was to small, and the salmon was of questionable quality. That said, with the same product, increase the size of the pot and see if a different result occurs.
Also, for salmon 113^F for 10 mikes. Remove from bag sear and serve.Salmon was of poor quality. I'm not about too waste money on good fish when I'm just a rookie.:p
I'd agree the pot is too small but the quality of the fish without tasting, or seeing it raw is hard to tell.
Net time Guy I'd better see a Lemon Beurre Blanc on that plate with your salmon.....:munchin Lemon Beurre Blanc sounds French and since it took three Americans to save their asses on that train.:eek:
I'll stick with "calabash" style cooking that we have here in the "good ole" SE.:lifter
(1VB)compforce
09-14-2015, 23:28
Salmon was of poor quality. I'm not about too waste money on good fish when I'm just a rookie.:p
Lemon Beurre Blanc sounds French and since it took three Americans to save their asses on that train.:eek:
I'll stick with "calabash" style cooking that we have here in the "good ole" SE.:lifter
Buerre Blanc is fairly easy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-UmMgtS65E
Buerre Blanc is fairly easy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-UmMgtS65EWe call it gravy here in the South East.:D
I have not Sous Vide short ribs, if anyone has, what was your method, temp and cook time. Tx
Team Sergeant
09-23-2015, 09:02
I have not Sous Vide short ribs, if anyone has, what was your method, temp and cook time. Tx
Heresy!!! :D
Why Sous Vide a normally braised item?
TS, they are braising as I type this, but I was thinking maybe it might improve the short ribs if were individually cook in a seal envelope, concentrating the flavor. The ribs lose a lot of juice being braised.
I was also wondering if Sous Viding the ribs might give me extra time to do other things. It’s a beautiful day here.
What attracts me to the Sous Vide method with meats is the cooking window is a couple of hours longer. I can leave and come back in 6 or seven hours, rather than wait for them to finish in 2-3 hr @ 375^.
Team Sergeant
09-23-2015, 12:50
TS, they are braising as I type this, but I was thinking maybe it might improve the short ribs if were individually cook in a seal envelope, concentrating the flavor. The ribs lose a lot of juice being braised.
I was also wondering if Sous Viding the ribs might give me extra time to do other things. It’s a beautiful day here.
What attracts me to the Sous Vide method with meats is the cooking window is a couple of hours longer. I can leave and come back in 6 or seven hours, rather than wait for them to finish in 2-3 hr @ 375^.
A good experiment indeed.
Here are results for todays "Braised" short ribs, I'll take a picture of the the plated ribs tomorrow and post it here.
Timing was 2.5 hrs @ 400^F
I have not Sous Vide short ribs, if anyone has, what was your method, temp and cook time. Tx@145 degrees and getting ready to roast them at 300degrees with sauce....
Guy, are you reheating them, or are you in fact, roasting them again?
Guy, are you reheating them, or are you in fact, roasting them again?Just took them out of the "larger" pot you suggested....
Put in a stuffed cornish hen at 150--degrees...
I am not sure how this
Just took them out of the "larger" pot you suggested....
Put in a stuffed cornish hen at 150--degrees...
answers this question: Guy, are you reheating them, or are you in fact, roasting them again?
I have not Sous Vide short ribs, if anyone has, what was your method, temp and cook time. Tx
After I read this, I had my wife pick up some when she went shopping this morning. (Removed the link that got hijacked)
I don't have Keller's book, but this guy says that this is from it. We've been solar-challenged the last week, but it looks like I will be able to run the SVS 72 hours now. I did 60 with St. Louis Style ribs a few months ago.
Pat
I am not sure how this
answers this question: Guy, are you reheating them, or are you in fact, roasting them again?Baking them @ 300°F both sides for 15-20mins then, broil until (tad-bit) charred.
After I read this, I had my wife pick up some when she went shopping this morning. I'll give it a shot using this as a reference: http://www.sousvidegeek.com/sous-vide-short-ribs.html
I don't have Keller's book, but this guy says that this is from it. We've been solar-challenged the last week, but it looks like I will be able to run the SVS 72 hours now. I did 60 with St. Louis Style ribs a few months ago.
Pat
Changed my mind. I'm going to go with 185° for 12 hours just to see how that turns out.
Pat
Guy, those ribs look terrific!!!
Guy, those ribs look terrific!!!Doing a barbecued butterflied leg of lamb @ 134°F for 10hrs then, attempt the same thing as done with the ribs.....:munchin
Team Sergeant
09-25-2015, 08:52
Just took them out of the "larger" pot you suggested....
Put in a stuffed cornish hen at 150--degrees...
Ensure that at the final cooking stage of that hen or any poultry the temp reaches 165.
And FYI, I don't think many would use sous V for poultry as they are already tender.
Ensure that at the final cooking stage of that hen or any poultry the temp reaches 165.
And FYI, I don't think many would use sous V for poultry as they are already tender.I'm a rookie mad-scientist type in training when it comes to cooking.:o:)
Team Sergeant
09-25-2015, 09:25
I'm a rookie mad-scientist type in training when it comes to cooking.:o:)
All mad food scientists should read this:
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/article/29/following-food-safety-temperatures.html
Changed my mind. I'm going to go with 185° for 12 hours just to see how that turns out.
Pat
Well...it was a fail and a win. The fail was that 3 Ziploc vacuum bags seemed to have failed. They all developed bubbles that caused the tops of the the bags to rise. The racks kept the meat under water. The first bag was a gallon-sized one. I moved the two ribs into separate quart-sized bags. When I removed them, after 12 hours, they seemed to be filled with water and also had a huge air bubble in them.
I drained the liquid, dried the meat, and coated it with BBQ sauce. I was going to finish them on the grill, but they were so tender that I thought that they might fall apart, so it finished them in a skillet. They turned out tender and tasted great!
I imagine that the high temp may have expanded the little air that was left in the bags, but that doesn't explain the water in the bags. There is no evidence of anything leaking out of the bag and into the SVS itself. :confused:
All's well that ends well, though! :lifter
Pat
Guy, I agree with TS, chicken is a no go. We did sous vide poultry once, and only once. Its all about texture, customers freaked out on the fork tender meat; unlike beef, veal, or pork, the texture was to soft.
PSM, when we use ziplock gallon bags, we immerse the bag with the product in place, and then we seal it. The water pressure removes the air pocket you mentioned and the package surrounds the meat. Be careful with bones tearing the bag after placing it in the sous vide oven.
PSM: Clip the bag to the side so that it does not sink. If cooking for an extended time, I vacuum seal the product.
Sous-Vide butterflied leg of lamb. Seared after 10hrs for that Mallard-Duck thingamajig.:p
PSM: Clip the bag to the side so that it does not sink. If cooking for an extended time, I vacuum seal the product.
I'm using the SV Supreme and it has racks. I'm just wondering if the 3 bags failed or not. There was an awful lot of liquid in the bag, but nothing in the SVS water. The liquid may have come from the ribs, but I'm not sure.
Tasted great, though, so I'm happy! :D
Pat
I'm using the SV Supreme and it has racks. I'm just wondering if the 3 bags failed or not. There was an awful lot of liquid in the bag, but nothing in the SVS water. The liquid may have come from the ribs, but I'm not sure.
Tasted great, though, so I'm happy! :D
PatI've had some Ziplock bags fail also, especially after being "totally" submerged for an extended length of time.
BTW...I stopped removing the membrane on ribs because, it helps keep them intact when cooking SV for a lengthy amount of time...:munchin
BTW...I stopped removing the membrane on ribs because, it helps keep them intact when cooking SV for a lengthy amount of time...:munchin
Funny you should mention that. When I made the STL style ribs, I removed the membrane and when I finished them on the grill they fell off the bone. So I left the membrane on this time and they held together just fine. I didn't finish them on the grill, though, because I wasn't sure that they would. Good tip!
Pat
Funny you should mention that. When I made the STL style ribs, I removed the membrane and when I finished them on the grill they fell off the bone. So I left the membrane on this time and they held together just fine. I didn't finish them on the grill, though, because I wasn't sure that they would. Good tip!
PatIf I cook for the "family" they, get the cheapest cuts of meat on the market; it ain't like the MFers are paying for it!:munchin
I decided to play around with some eggs for lunch. These were done at 64C for 45 minutes. The yolk was a little overdone for my likes so I'll try 63C next time but will probably have to poach them a few seconds in water to firm up the whites. Or maybe I'll try steaming in the bowls at the end.
Pat
(1VB)compforce
11-14-2015, 17:30
I decided to play around with some eggs for lunch. These were done at 64C for 45 minutes. The yolk was a little overdone for my likes so I'll try 63C next time but will probably have to poach them a few seconds in water to firm up the whites. Or maybe I'll try steaming in the bowls at the end.
Pat
Soft boiled in the shell is 64C for 35 minutes for large eggs. Adjust from that. You probably just cooked them too long. Try 30 minutes since they are out of the shell. How are you trying to cook them (desired end state)?
Soft boiled in the shell is 64C for 35 minutes for large eggs. Adjust from that. You probably just cooked them too long. Try 30 minutes since they are out of the shell. How are you trying to cook them (desired end state)?
I want the yolk runny but the whites set. That's hard to do since the two different "whites" and the yolk all set at different temps. This is why I'll probably have to finish in a quick poach or steam (I've never tried this). I've finished by a quick poach before.
This was a test of cooking them in the little bowls. Now I just have to figure out how to finish them in the bowls. I'll just have to eat the failures, I guess. ;)
Pat
Team Sergeant
11-15-2015, 09:48
Sous-Vide an egg?
You guys really need to get out more......:rolleyes::munchin;)
Sous-Vide an egg?
You guys really need to get out more......:rolleyes::munchin;)
I poached an omelet the other day, too. :D
Pat
Took a road trip to central AZ earlier this week and, while in PHX, my wife found a new wholesale restaurant supply store that's also open to the public. So, we ended up coming home with lots of new utensils, a good selection of cheese, and 18 pounds of tri-tip.
Below is one of the tri-tips after about 4 hours in the SV oven and finished on a hot grill 5 minutes a side. Served with pilaf, asparagus, and shallots in a red wine reduction.
ETA: Made this yesterday but forgot to get a pic. The one below is from today after it spent the night in the refrigerator, hence the lack of juice in the photo.
Pat
What is a Tri-Tip
Bottom corner of the bottom sirloin. In the past it was ground into hamburger then grill masters (I guess) in Santa Maria, CA, started using them and they became very popular here in the West. Very tender and juicy. The prime cut has a layer of fat that adds flavor.
Here's a link to Santa Maria Style: http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/05/the-best-inexpensive-steak-for-the-grill-part-5-tri-tip-santa-maria-steak.html
On this cut, I just seasoned it like a SRR. It's like a poor man's Prime Rib. ;)
Pat
PSM, thanks for that, I appreciate your time.
PSM, thanks for that, I appreciate your time.
No problem. I wouldn't have the SVS without your recommendation and link to their refurbished sale. :lifter
Pat
mark46th
03-07-2016, 14:53
Tri Tip is a traditional California Central Coast Cowboy cut. It is grilled over an open pit using oak for the fuel. Red Oak is my preferred wood, especially the bark which contains oils that produce an aromatic and flavor infusing smoke. I usually grill it for about 12-15 minutes a side then pull it off the direct heat for another 15 minutes or so. The cowboys I know coat the meat in a season salt. This will produce a bark that holds in the juices. When it is cut, the juice will pour out of it. It is not served with any kind of BBQ sauce. The traditional side dish is Pinquito Beans, pink beans slow cooked with onions, chiles and spices......
Tri Tip is a traditional California Central Coast Cowboy cut. It is grilled over an open pit using oak for the fuel. Red Oak is my preferred wood, especially the bark which contains oils that produce an aromatic and flavor infusing smoke. I usually grill it for about 12-15 minutes a side then pull it off the direct heat for another 15 minutes or so. The cowboys I know coat the meat in a season salt. This will produce a bark that holds in the juices. When it is cut, the juice will pour out of it. It is not served with any kind of BBQ sauce. The traditional side dish is Pinquito Beans, pink beans slow cooked with onions, chiles and spices......
The best trick I learned when grilling them was that it's done when it wiggles like jello. Works every time. :D
Pat
(1VB)compforce
03-07-2016, 15:12
Tri Tip is a traditional California Central Coast Cowboy cut. It is grilled over an open pit using oak for the fuel. Red Oak is my preferred wood, especially the bark which contains oils that produce an aromatic and flavor infusing smoke. I usually grill it for about 12-15 minutes a side then pull it off the direct heat for another 15 minutes or so. The cowboys I know coat the meat in a season salt. This will produce a bark that holds in the juices. When it is cut, the juice will pour out of it. It is not served with any kind of BBQ sauce. The traditional side dish is Pinquito Beans, pink beans slow cooked with onions, chiles and spices......
Because of the heavy grain it makes a good cut for anything requiring shredded beef. I use it for my enchiladas and southwest egg rolls. Slow cooked over night to tenderize it (it's a bit tough if not cut thin against the grain) and then fork shredded works well.
mark46th
03-07-2016, 16:02
"Because of the heavy grain it makes a good cut for anything requiring shredded beef." IVB
That's heresy out here, don't go to Santa Maria...
(1VB)compforce
03-07-2016, 16:03
That's heresy out here, don't go to Santa Maria...
Too far to the left coast for me. No danger of me ever getting close.
New and better, exact same principle, better equipment.
I am in the process of redesigning the kitchen. The intention is all induction hubs and sous vide. Range will have 6-8 hubs side by side, back up by four smart hubs w/tanks. I am not a fan of the circulation system from Poly-sci in Chicago, (http://polyscienceculinary.com/collections/sous-vide-circulators/products/sous-vide-professional-classic-series), which is a personal preference, due to size of my kitchen and the production process limited to 60 covers max. So, when I discover this system I threw away the Viagra.
www.Oliso.com
The guy in the Demo way over cooked the salmon!!!
(1VB)compforce
03-07-2016, 17:10
The guy in the Demo way over cooked the salmon!!!
The smart hubs look nice. Kinda small for a commercial kitchen isn't it? 11 qt. You'd need 3 of them to do the same volume as one 32 qt Cambro with a poly sci circulator.
He also didn't sear the sides of the steak he shows, just the top and bottom (and the bottom is pretty weak).
www.Oliso.com
The guy in the Demo way over cooked the salmon!!!
That's damn cool! (Pun only slightly intentional. ;)) Certainly adds versatility to the kitchen.
Pat
The smart hubs look nice. Kinda small for a commercial kitchen isn't it? 11 qt. You'd need 3 of them to do the same volume as one 32 qt Cambro with a poly sci circulator.
1 VB, have you used that system?
(1VB)compforce
03-08-2016, 04:14
1 VB, have you used that system?
I've used the 24qt w/ poly sci very briefly in school, it seemed to do the job pretty well, but never in the setting you are in. It was a real question for knowledge. I'd like to understand the reasons behind your choice given the price difference. Is it for the flexibility of multiple temperatures? Is the smarthub more consistently heated? Is it the flexibility of sous vide or induction in the same space?
I'm not arguing, I'm asking. I've never used the smarthubs.
What I never liked about the Poly Sci was the idea that one cambro fits all. The smart-hub, as you surmised, allows for "flexibility of multiple temperatures", and the almost instant increase in water temperatures via the induction hub.
Their Vac system is a waste of money.
So tell me a bit about your culinary background, are you a working professional chef, and what school?
(1VB)compforce
03-08-2016, 06:07
What I never liked about the Poly Sci was the idea that one cambro fits all. The smart-hub, as you surmised, allows for "flexibility of multiple temperatures", and the almost instant increase in water temperatures via the induction hub.
Their Vac system is a waste of money.
So tell me a bit about your culinary background, are you a working professional chef, and what school?
Thanks.
I had/have a ton of GI Bill cash to use from both Montgomery era and Post 9/11. Since college won't make a difference at this point in my day job (I own an IT company), I used some of it to attend the Art Institute of Atlanta and took the cooking portion of the Culinary Arts degree. I already know the P&L and budget stuff and already had the basics from St Pete College (Math, English, etc.). If I were to go back and take the finance part,Arte Du Cuisine and 40 industry hours I'd get my AA. I'm currently waiting for a surgery to heal and then going to decide on whether to finish it out. I'll definitely take ADC, just not sure if I want to spend my weekends in a class learning something I do every day (finance).
For a short time I ran the restaurant at the American Legion locally. Nothing special, some short order with a dinner special each night, maybe 50 orders on a good night (counter service). Right now I am in early negotiations to buy a restaurant/bar that seats about 110 for dinner (80 inside, 32 patio) + another 40ish at the bar. I'll have to redo the kitchen if we close the deal. That's the source of the question.
ETA:
I won't be the chef at the restaurant, I'll hire someone with experience. My focus will be the business side of things.
Other than that, I'm just a better than average home cook with a lot of time spent playing with my food, especially the modernist side. I tend to go italian, southwest or classic french (when I have the time) with my food.
That's interesting, you do not need the AA, as for the "Art Institute" of Atlanta and all other branches are owned by Goldman Sacks, they are predatory. Their business model is centered on those who marginally graduated high school. I had two yo-yo's who worked briefly for me in NYC. AI, the tuition mill for Goldman, arranged their students loans...$70K each. The key, as always is the instructors, are they monster cooks or not?
I don't think I would use my GI benefits on culinary school, or if I did, maybe limited it to a six month program at a great pastry school. imo, the business model for cash generation, rather than CC's, is a patisserie, great coffee and pastries. Counter service only, minimal setup cost, off the charts RIO. Restaurants are PIA.
The schools that seem to attract talent and are most respected are FCI, CB, CIA, the best though are Drexel University and Cornell in the USA.
(1VB)compforce
03-08-2016, 08:20
That's interesting, you do not need the AA,
The only reason I would finish it is because I am so close to it. I already have the 40 hours from the Legion and I'd want to take ADC anyhow. That leaves me two classes (budget/P&L and Menu Development) to get the legitimate title of Chef.
as for the "Art Institute" of Atlanta and all other branches are owned by Goldman Sacks, they are predatory. Their business model is centered on those who marginally graduated high school. I had two yo-yo's who worked briefly for me in NYC. AI, the tuition mill for Goldman, arranged their students loans...$70K each.
Honestly, I'm not impressed by their student body. There were a few shining stars, but most of them were just there to get the diploma. The reason I actually stopped going was over sanitation/food safety issues. They've cleaned it up enough now that I can go back.
You hit it on the head. Cordon Bleu is doing the same thing here in Atlanta. Gov't backed Student Loans and Grants are the business model for both. AI is the only one in the area with weekend courses though. For me it's them or nothing. I'd prefer CIA, but there isn't one around here. My business ties me to the Greater Atlanta area.
I don't think I would use my GI benefits on culinary school, or if I did, maybe limited it to a six month program at a pastry school. imo, the business model for cash generation, rather than CC's, is a patisserie, great coffee and pastries. Counter service only, minimal setup cost, off the charts RIO.
I'm using the benefits on something I enjoy. Otherwise they would just sit there unused. I've thought about taking the Baking and Pastry side from AI. In this area there are patisseries and good coffee shops (not Starbucks!) about every 1/2 mile. The market is completely saturated. If you ever come down this way, I'll take you to Alpine Bakery. Their cakes and pastries are off the charts! http://alpinebakeryandtrattoria.com/bakery/ The dinners aren't bad, but people go there just for the desserts, dinner is an afterthought.
Edited to catch up to your edit:
The key, as always is the instructors, are they monster cooks or not? - They were hit or miss. I don't know about the newer ones, they had some turnover in the last two years after failing, yes...failing, < 60, their food service inspection for the student restaurant. The one that teaches ADC subbed for one of the weekends I was there. He was on top of his game.
Restaurants are PIA. - yes, this one is a unique situation that I am positioned perfectly to take advantage of. I don't want to post it on the open board, will send a PM.
Team Sergeant
03-12-2016, 19:04
I'm extremely happy I used my veterans benefits to attend Le Cordon Bleu. I chose it over AI because it was food focused. And because many of the instructors were former CIA grads.
And I would recommend it to those that are there to work hard and learn, and not to smoke weed, and do drugs like many of the lines cooks all over America being "trained" by someone that actually knows very little about food. I've found that finding a chef to work for and train under is like finding a martial arts instructor, most just know enough to be a great fake. The real ones are few and far between. And if you think we have military frauds it's about times ten for the cooking industry, everyone is a chef......
Le Cordon Bleu was like any other of the dozens and dozens of schools I've attended, you get out of it what you put into it. Afterwards it's like any other occupation , you start at the bottom and work your way up, if you're good. I finished and went to cook in Afghanistan and the Ritz in Cayman Islands.
I worked hard, studied hard, graduated with a 4.0 average and I've no doubt I could replicate just about any recipe as well as the exec chef. What I don't have is the master level of cooking where dishes are invented. That in my opinion takes a real artist in the industry and someone with tons of passion for his/her craft.
I also learned it's not rocket science and there are techniques and principles for success, learn them and it becomes second nature to cook.
Divemaster
03-12-2016, 21:54
Bottom corner of the bottom sirloin. In the past it was ground into hamburger then grill masters (I guess) in Santa Maria, CA, started using them and they became very popular here in the West. Very tender and juicy. The prime cut has a layer of fat that adds flavor.
Here's a link to Santa Maria Style: http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/05/the-best-inexpensive-steak-for-the-grill-part-5-tri-tip-santa-maria-steak.html
On this cut, I just seasoned it like a SRR. It's like a poor man's Prime Rib. ;)
Pat
When I briefly lived in Lompoc, CA in the 1980s I found that tri tip BBQs in Santa Maria, SLO, and elsewhere in the region were the fund raising equivalent of car washes in other parts of the country. That was when I fell in love with that cut of meat.
Divemaster
03-12-2016, 22:03
Moved.
I'm extremely happy I used my veterans benefits to attend Le Cordon Bleu. I chose it over AI because it was food focused. And because many of the instructors were former CIA grads.
And I would recommend it to those that are there to work hard and learn, and not to smoke weed, and do drugs like many of the lines cooks all over America being "trained" by someone that actually knows very little about food. I've found that finding a chef to work for and train under is like finding a martial arts instructor, most just know enough to be a great fake. The real ones are few and far between. And if you think we have military frauds it's about times ten for the cooking industry, everyone is a chef......
Le Cordon Bleu was like any other of the dozens and dozens of schools I've attended, you get out of it what you put into it. Afterwards it's like any other occupation , you start at the bottom and work your way up, if you're good. I finished and went to cook in Afghanistan and the Ritz in Cayman Islands.
I worked hard, studied hard, graduated with a 4.0 average and I've no doubt I could replicate just about any recipe as well as the exec chef. What I don't have is the master level of cooking where dishes are invented. That in my opinion takes a real artist in the industry and someone with tons of passion for his/her craft.
I also learned it's not rocket science and there are techniques and principles for success, learn them and it becomes second nature to cook.
TS, just to be clear, as I stated “The schools that seem to attract talent and are most respected are FCI, CB, CIA,” French Culinary Institute, Le Cordon Bleu, and the Culinary Institute of America, they are bona fide occupational schools.
Our hiring experience has been, that they mostly, on average, produce uneven, skilled employees. Except for Cordon Blue, Cordon Blue tends to attract the more mature serious candidates, who have a clear idea of what they want to achieve. Their graduates of the Grande Diplome program are highly sought after, especially, if they attended the Paris home school, CB pastry school is world class instruction and the best investment.
The issue is training vs ROI. CIA 100K for a four year BS in Culinary Arts? FCI 6 months 60K, Cordon Blue 52K, which begs the question is culinary school necessary. The answer is time related. If someone has the time, the best route is estages in Europe as free labor for 1-2 years, in 2 and 3 star Michelin restaurants. You would see and work every station. On return to the USA, any shift sous chef position in a highly regarded restaurant would make you a serious candidate for hire.
With regard to those who do not attend culinary school and who train under…yo chef, what are we doing…we never hire. But, if they have trained under chef’s we know and respect, which implies the small circle of highly regarded French culinary techniques type restaurants in USA, they are seriously considered, before all others.
Which brings us to the contention of using hard earned educational benefits for culinary school vs a BA or BS in business management, STEM or any degree that would open employment in the 60K range within 2-5 years to of graduation. In the culinary world, you have to be a major experienced executive sous chef to command that salary range, which translates to 10+ years in the field, even if you possess a BS in Culinary science for CIA. Though I don’t have the numbers to support this claim, it is a known fact that many culinary grads leave the industry within 5 years. So, 2-4 years of school. Add debt, and X years in the business, before moving on to something new, that’s a terrible ROI.
That said, your argument relates to your decision and performance in CB, which is beyond unusual. Your resume and world experience would open any door. Enrolling in culinary school relates to your passion for food, not employment. You are the ideal partner, or managing director, there is no one that can compare to what you have accomplished.
What is of interest is the GI Bill continues until you have exhausted the benefits, but what is little known, and there are plenty here, that are Chapter 31 Voc/rehab, is the program can be reentered for failure to produce gainful long term employment capable of sustaining one responsibilities/life style, which translates to entering the program up to and including your master’s degree, plus stipend, at any school you gain admittance to.
http://www.eater.com/2013/7/11/6408893/culinary-school-the-pros-and-cons-of-culinary-education
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=what+%25+of+culinary+grads+leave+the+industry
Mythbuster Savage has a new website and I found this interesting video when researching how best to reverse-sear my SV steaks: Tested (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB1x0O-bhrw)
While the chimney methods seems the best, it would require another use for the charcoal, wasting it, or dousing it. I'm willing to give it a try, though. ;)
My wife suggested using our weed torch: https://www.amazon.com/Red-Dragon-VT-2-23-000-BTU/dp/B00004Z2FP
Pat
Team Sergeant
07-12-2016, 06:21
Mythbuster Savage
Pat
I like Adam Savage, but I would not ask a 12 year old what he thought was the best steak sear. Purely subjective..........
Who I would ask instead:
Keens Steakhouse (http://www.keens.com/)
Peter Luger's (https://peterluger.com/)
Delmonico's (http://www.delmonicosrestaurant.com/about.html)
Yeah, he's a James Beard awardee, but he's what 12 years old and these steak houses have been around since the Civil War......;)
I like Adam Savage, but I would not ask a 12 year old what he thought was the best steak sear. Purely subjective..........
Who I would ask instead:
Keens Steakhouse (http://www.keens.com/)
Peter Luger's (https://peterluger.com/)
Delmonico's (http://www.delmonicosrestaurant.com/about.html)
Yeah, he's a James Beard awardee, but he's what 12 years old and these steak houses have been around since the Civil War......;)
I was just interested in the "how" for getting a good quick sear on my SV steaks. So far my cast iron griddle or skillet is the best but it's too much heat in the kitchen for this time of year. The chimney method seems promising, though.
Pat
Team Sergeant
07-12-2016, 14:20
I was just interested in the "how" for getting a good quick sear on my SV steaks. So far my cast iron griddle or skillet is the best but it's too much heat in the kitchen for this time of year. The chimney method seems promising, though.
Pat
I think the best steak sear is done with glowing red hard wood coals. You can taste the smoke........ it doesn't taste anything like propane, or cast iron. That's just my take. ;)
I think the best steak sear is done with glowing red hard wood coals. You can taste the smoke........ it doesn't taste anything like propane, or cast iron. That's just my take. ;)
Agreed. I'm going to use chunk mesquite in the chimney. I brought plenty from CA but we don't have a charcoal grill yet. I saw one at Lowes the other day with a side smoke box that looks good.
Pat
Team Sergeant
07-12-2016, 14:31
Agreed. I'm going to use chunk mesquite in the chimney. I brought plenty from CA but we don't have a charcoal grill yet. I saw one at Lowes the other day with a side smoke box that looks good.
Pat
I have a very expensive Fire Magic Grill and I have a simple, very inexpensive Weber Grill. Fast and easy, the Fire Magic ,but, for the absolute best tasting steak, the Weber with the hardwood coal.
I use the Weber when I want to get my carnivore on..... vegans dig it. ;)
I've got a Weber Genesis gas grill but you are right, can't beat charcoal! My wife reminded me, though, that we still have a Weber Smokey Joe hidden someplace in the garage. I'm pretty sure that, with the chunk mesquite, the Smokey Joe will solve my little sear problem.
Pat
Refurb sale on now:
http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/SousVide-Supreme-Water-Oven-11L-Stainless-Steel-refurb/Product.aspx?utm_content=pm90254@hotmail.com&utm_medium=tailoredmail&utm_term=SHOP+NOW&utm_source=Exclusive+Sous+Vide+Refurb+Sale
http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/SousVide-Supreme-Demi-Water-Oven-9L-refurb/Product.aspx?utm_content=pm90254@hotmail.com&utm_medium=tailoredmail&utm_term=SHOP+NOW&utm_source=Exclusive+Sous+Vide+Refurb+Sale
Mine was supposed to have scratches on it but I've yet to find them. This is a good deal on these units.
Pat
This is the new Sous Vide we are working with, an Oliso. The water oven is awesome!
$500USD, and worth every penny.
Tried to correct the picture origination, escaped and remain south
I've been looking at getting this for traveling...
JOULE (https://www.chefsteps.com/joule)
I kept wondering what camel meat would taste like...:D
I've been looking at getting this for traveling...
JOULE (https://www.chefsteps.com/joule)
I kept wondering what camel meat would taste like...:D
Great idea! We could easily carry that on our little travel trailer.
Pat
Have used them, they are great for 1/2 people dinners with limited space. Great way to prep and go steaks and veggie to reheat of finish later. Cheap too!