View Full Version : US troops now in 4 African countries to fight LRA
NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) -- U.S. troops helping in the fight against a brutal rebel group called the Lord's Resistance Army are now deployed in four Central African countries, the top U.S. special operations commander for Africa said Wednesday.
The U.S. announced in October it was sending about 100 U.S. troops - mostly special operations forces - to Central Africa to advise in the fight against the LRA and its leader Joseph Kony, a bush fighter wanted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.
Rear Adm. Brian L. Losey, the top U.S. special operations commander for Africa, said the U.S. troops are now stationed in bases in Uganda, Congo, South Sudan and Central African Republic.
Balance here: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AF_AFRICA_LRA_FIGHT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-02-22-08-55-56
Guymullins
02-22-2012, 15:08
NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) -- U.S. troops helping in the fight against a brutal rebel group called the Lord's Resistance Army are now deployed in four Central African countries, the top U.S. special operations commander for Africa said Wednesday.
The U.S. announced in October it was sending about 100 U.S. troops - mostly special operations forces - to Central Africa to advise in the fight against the LRA and its leader Joseph Kony, a bush fighter wanted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.
Rear Adm. Brian L. Losey, the top U.S. special operations commander for Africa, said the U.S. troops are now stationed in bases in Uganda, Congo, South Sudan and Central African Republic.
Balance here: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AF_AFRICA_LRA_FIGHT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-02-22-08-55-56
Hell holes all, and rife with diseases that have not yet been invented. These guys are going to earn their dollars. The LRA are unbelievably savage and primitive group. Their military skills are few, but they know their area and operate like ghosts within it.
Come on, you all can't be that blind. There are precious Metals there son.
cat in the hat
02-22-2012, 20:25
I worked for ADM Losey last year and He knows the value of SF in those environments. While he might lean towards his roots for other missions, when it comes to UW/FID, he knows who does it best.
CloseDanger
02-23-2012, 11:15
AFRICOM interactive map (http://www.africom.mil/interactiveMap.asp).
spherojon
03-07-2012, 06:58
This is the Kony 2012 movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4MnpzG5Sqc
DevilSide
03-07-2012, 19:43
Just watched kony 2012, I'd say it's definitely a honorable project, and I encourage everyone to spread this video. It really is sad what goes on over there...
My daughter asked me to watch the you tube video tonight. In the 30 minutes I did, it got over 2.5 MILLION hits. It was only at 200,000 last night and is now over 11 million.
My daughter is talking to her student body president tonight to see how they can participate in Paper the Night on April 20. If you see the video, it is OUR kids, and KIDS all over the world that are doing this. The pride I have in my daughter right now brings me to tears.
My military mind tells me we can't be the world's policeman, but when you see something like this, as a parent, it is hard to explain to your child why. Why is this happening to kids their age, and much much younger. Foreign Policy just doesn't cut it to a 14 year old.
I am going to do what I can to help her foray into the vast world, and know that one person can make a difference.
MTN Medic
03-07-2012, 20:34
Holy $#!&! This has been going on in that God forsaken land for thousands of years. I am sorry that people just found out about this (and likely the presence of the continent of Africa) but shut the hell up.
What in the hell does awareness do? I will give you an answer: Make upper middle class school girls feel better about themselves while thousands are slaughtered. Great. Good job. Sorry if I seem callous, but if you don't already know what the US is doing in the area already (hint: what these people are asking for) you should probably shut up until you have read a little bit on the subject.
What in the hell does awareness do?
Remember it's an election year. There is a moment in the video that points out that a certain person decided to publicize he sent troops to Uganda.
I would be surprised if the SEALs don't interdict Kony on the first week of November.
Mntneers
03-07-2012, 21:12
Certainly an outstanding ad campaign, but don't be so fast to jump on the "Kony 2012" bandwagon. Not that it's not a great message because it is, but the charity behind it "Invisible Children", at least in my eyes, could essentially be called a scam.
http://thedailywh.at/2012/03/07/on-kony-2012-2/
And all of these influential high school, college and young adult aged activists-for-a-day are going to donate and tell their friends to donate to that group instead of many others that will actually help those kids in Africa.
Certainly an outstanding ad campaign, but don't be so fast to jump on the "Kony 2012" bandwagon. Not that it's not a great message because it is, but the charity behind it "Invisible Children", at least in my eyes, could essentially be called a scam.
http://thedailywh.at/2012/03/07/on-kony-2012-2/
And all of these influential high school, college and young adult aged activists-for-a-day are going to donate and tell their friends to donate to that group instead of many others that will actually help those kids in Africa.
Gotta love this photo from that link.
John_Chrichton
03-07-2012, 22:03
Gotta love this photo from that link.
I thought it was photoshoped. Hipsters with AKs and RPGs haha
The American Apparel People's Liberation Army.
This campaign is bullcrap. Remember when everyone was gung-ho about the genocide in Darfur? Now nobody gives a damn. Public attention has been directed elsewhere.
charlietwo
03-07-2012, 23:58
Gotta love this photo from that link.
head! That picture simultaneously made me laugh and cry. You may have melted my brain!:(
My daughter asked me to watch the you tube video tonight. In the 30 minutes I did, it got over 2.5 MILLION hits. It was only at 200,000 last night and is now over 11 million..
Look at the Invisible Children financial statement (http://c2052482.r82.cf0.rackcdn.com/images/737/original/FY11-Audited%20Financial%20Statements.pdf?1320205055) The functional expenses are.. well, I don't understand what they're doing with their $7m revenue (to put it lightly). Perhaps they would like to send in the terrifying Blue Helmet Crew? When I noticed they were trending #2 on Twitter, I didn't trust it. Seems too fabricated.
Kudos to your daughter for paying attention to something outside of her sphere. Just remind her that the only way to stop tyrants is to shoot them in the face.
Holy $#!&! This has been going on in that God forsaken land for thousands of years. I am sorry that people just found out about this (and likely the presence of the continent of Africa) but shut the hell up.
What in the hell does awareness do? I will give you an answer: Make upper middle class school girls feel better about themselves while thousands are slaughtered. Great. Good job. Sorry if I seem callous, but if you don't already know what the US is doing in the area already (hint: what these people are asking for) you should probably shut up until you have read a little bit on the subject.
Watch the video. Sing along...All they are sayyyying is give war a chance.
The organization brought the public pressure to bear on the Obama administration that resulted in the current deployment. It's a social media campaign to keep the pressure on congress to actually finish what we started. Not a bad thing.
This movement is bringing a lot of positive attention to SF and their mission re: UW/FID. I would have thought that's a good thing. The Navy would know what to do with this public relations windfall.
I have questions about their financial transparency and I doubt they'll get my money, but they address that issue as well. At least they aren't saying lets all get together in a drum circle for world peace. They're saying put pressure on your representatives to finish the job and kill this bastard.
...and yes they sometimes come off like hipster deuches and the video is cringeworthy at spots but in general it seems a great way to generate some goodwill in a strategic area and do some good to boot.
Plus the European hipsters *hate* this campaign -- "it's interfering with potential peace talks blah blah. You're making Kony feel insecure." That has to be a good sign.
Certainly an outstanding ad campaign, but don't be so fast to jump on the "Kony 2012" bandwagon. Not that it's not a great message because it is, but the charity behind it "Invisible Children", at least in my eyes, could essentially be called a scam.
http://thedailywh.at/2012/03/07/on-kony-2012-2/
And all of these influential high school, college and young adult aged activists-for-a-day are going to donate and tell their friends to donate to that group instead of many others that will actually help those kids in Africa.
"Scam" is unwarranted, at least from what is known so far. They lack transparency and their financial statements are bit of a joke but if they were a "scam" they would certainly have made a better attempt at covering up.
The top three principals are getting ~$80K/year and from what I've read they are being hammered by the European Internet community (this is arguably the first meme war) for funneling arms to the locals for self-defense.
They have apparently learned that weapons without training are useless. This whole campaign is designed to keep pressure on the US congress to keep SF troops in place for UW/FID training.
head! That picture simultaneously made me laugh and cry. You may have melted my brain!:(
Look at the Invisible Children financial statement (http://c2052482.r82.cf0.rackcdn.com/images/737/original/FY11-Audited%20Financial%20Statements.pdf?1320205055) The functional expenses are.. well, I don't understand what they're doing with their $7m revenue (to put it lightly). Perhaps they would like to send in the terrifying Blue Helmet Crew? When I noticed they were trending #2 on Twitter, I didn't trust it. Seems too fabricated.
Kudos to your daughter for paying attention to something outside of her sphere. Just remind her that the only way to stop tyrants is to shoot them in the face.
You should look into this a little further before you jump to conclusions. They most certainly do not want the "Blue Helmet Crew" sent in. Their purported goal is the continued presence of the 10th Special Forces, the training of local forces, and the sudden, violent and bloody death of this bastard.
These guys are going under the microscope and my guess is they are going to wish they were never born, much less start an Internet social media campaign. The European hipsters (meme war: US side=kill the bastard, EU side=peace talk talk talk talk...) are already digging into End User certificates and trying to nail them.
Claims are flying around that a bunch of their money was used to supply weapons to the locals and in attempts to set up local self-defense militias. Who knows. But what does seem clear is that their current goal is the continued presence of Special Forces boots on the ground.
I certainly hope that this whole campaign pans out as legit. There are enough cynical people in the world as it is.
Gotta love this photo from that link.
They're getting hammered for this picture from all sides. The Brit university hipsters and hackers (imagine Anonymous and Wikileaks being on your trail) are claiming that they are showing off weapons that they purchased for a local self-defense militia that they were attempting to set up.
I say let's reserve judgement. Their finances are certainly going to be under the microscope and if they have fiddled end user certificates, as some are claiming, they are facing federal and "world court" beefs as well.
mugwump,
Look, I don't know who you are (your profile is a vague, but it looks like you've been around here for a while so you may have been blessed off)... but just because they are saying "give war a chance" does not make me a fan of theirs. "It is well that war is so terrible. We should grow too fond of it."
I don't think IC is bad and I reserve judgement on some of the other points... but they do oversimplify the "how" in a manner that turns me off. The photo of them posing with weapons merely amplifies this feeling.
I, like all soldiers, have to go fight wherever I'm told whether it's some bad intel about WMD's or it's college hipsters who use social media to rally the troops. I just don't like for "where" to be decided by the strength of ad campaign or by the calls to war from the people who didn't know the man they want capture/dead even existed two days ago (that didn't attack the US, thanks)
But it is funny that the ones who will make up that military presence... are about the same demographic as the ones running around wearing pins and wristbands asking for the troops to go there. I'm not saying for them to sign up in the military, I just want them to recognize that there is always a price to be paid - look at "Blackhawk Down." Is Kony worth American lives? Is Kony worth THEIR lives?
Let's finish the job? Sure... when is the job finished? Take out Kony? What about the next Kony? Are we now America World Police and should start going down the list of the world's top criminals? I'm not saying that Kony isn't a bad guy that deserves to die... but what is the strategic benefit to America for hunting down this guy? If we can accomplish any our strategic goals by simply conducting FID and letting the LN armies keep him on the run, why do we need to commit any more troops or go after him ourselves?
I don't think we'll be out of a job without IC. There will always be shitty militaries to train and humanitarian problemsto fix in Africa. We've had trainers in there under ACRI since the 90's. I agree that we could capitalize on the current media spotlight in that area - turn it into a little recruitment campaign for SF.
I thought it was photoshoped. Hipsters with AKs and RPGs haha
The American Apparel People's Liberation Army.
This campaign is bullcrap. Remember when everyone was gung-ho about the genocide in Darfur? Now nobody gives a damn. Public attention has been directed elsewhere.
So by all means, lets teach our children not to care. Lets teach them that we adults are not able to practice what we teach. I don't know about you, but I think it is a good thing when you have a 14 year old little girl begin to understand how lucky she has it to be born in the USA. That she has it better than a vast majority of people on an entire continent. That she begins to ask questions about how the US develops its Foreign Policy, right wrong or indifferent. I guess it doesn't matter..... because we adults say it doesn't matter.
I say BULLSHIT. I am not advocating for the US to go in and right every wrong in the world. But I am advocating for our children to learn about the world around them, and if things like this get them asking questions, I don't see it as a bad thing.
So by all means, lets teach our children not to care. Lets teach them that we adults are not able to practice what we teach. I don't know about you, but I think it is a good thing when you have a 14 year old little girl begin to understand how lucky she has it to be born in the USA. That she has it better than a vast majority of people on an entire continent. That she begins to ask questions about how the US develops its Foreign Policy, right wrong or indifferent. I guess it doesn't matter..... because we adults say it doesn't matter.
I say BULLSHIT. I am not advocating for the US to go in and right every wrong in the world. But I am advocating for our children to learn about the world around them, and if things like this get them asking questions, I don't see it as a bad thing.
Great post Afchic!! And when our children learn to question and seek knowledge, sometimes they do great things like serve their country!
While the cause might be noble. The campaign firestorm over the past few days reeks more of car-magnet patriotism because it's "in" at the moment than any real care of whats happening over there.
what in the fuck am I reading here???
"When did America become the World Police?" - easy answer; since nobody else would. This world sucks, and if we have the ability to bring a guy like Kony to justice or into a body bag - then by all means do it. This is what we do, and have been doing for years. Stop acting like you just walked in on your wife being fucked by your neighbor.
You people make it sound like the things we do around the world that seemingly have no interests to the US is something new.
"Not at the cost of our troops lives!!" - Seriously WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to judge that?!
This is an all volunteer military and so is SOCOM - anybody who volunteers for a SOF unit, ESPECIALLY for SF, already knows he will be deployed all over the world. Not just in combat zones like Iraq/Afghanistan.
To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why? Because they were killing Colombians and getting Americans high? I can see the huge threat to the American way of life from here.. not (well except maybe protecting those pipelines.. but still you know what I mean). But the reality is - what SF has done and continues to do down there is a noble and amazing cause to help those people.
And to those people spouting off nonsense like "Don't send OUR troops there!" that makes them feel like patriots and troop supporters. The guys on the ground aren't E1s from the 82nd, they are shooters who want nothing more then to be doing the job they signed up for. They don't need or want risk averse civilians like yourselves to speak on their behalf. So simply STFU.
Nobody asked Batman to to fight crime in Gotham - he just did it because he had the means and the heart when nobody else did. FYI.
And if you are getting pissed off because of my rant - then most likely I am targeting YOU.
Dknob OUT!
mugwump,
Look, I don't know who you are (your profile is a vague, but it looks like you've been around here for a while so you may have been blessed off)... but just because they are saying "give war a chance" does not make me a fan of theirs. "It is well that war is so terrible. We should grow too fond of it."
I'm a guy who should stay in General Discussions and regrets when he strays. All of your points are well taken. Thank you for your service.
Mntneers
03-08-2012, 10:44
"Scam" is unwarranted, at least from what is known so far. They lack transparency and their financial statements are bit of a joke but if they were a "scam" they would certainly have made a better attempt at covering up.
The top three principals are getting ~$80K/year and from what I've read they are being hammered by the European Internet community (this is arguably the first meme war) for funneling arms to the locals for self-defense.
They have apparently learned that weapons without training are useless. This whole campaign is designed to keep pressure on the US congress to keep SF troops in place for UW/FID training.
Firstly all of my gripes is with Invisible Children. I fully support getting in there and killing Kony.
IMO scam is very much warranted, and until they stop refusing to have their financials audited and stop refusing to work with the BBB, they are HIGHLY questionable. As it is their financials certainly have to make you scratch your head. The 3 founders are making $89,000, $88,000, $84,000 which is pure profit. And there's are people that are oh so worried about the children in Africa? Total revenue is close to 14 million... Only 8.8 million of that went into thir programs. There's NO explanation as to where that excess 5 million went. 31% of funds ever make it to Uganda. And how much of that ever gets to the kids, which this is all about right?
The film itself was made from film they took in 2004! The film is basically a call to action. It's like showing a video of 9/11 today and saying we need to stop this problem NOW. The LRA has not even been present in Uganda in 6 years, and yet to donate to Invisible Children (aside from buying them first class tickets to and from Africa, brand new cameras, production equipment) the money is backing the Ugandan army, which has been accused of raping, looting and using children soldiers! This is also supporting the president of Uganda who among other human rights violations has; tortured prisoners, oppressed other political parties and has been trying to pass a bill that allows all convicted homosexuals to be killed.
The majority of the people pushing this "charity" are the same people that immediately criticize the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan because "it's an illegal war" "war is never right" etc. And yet what they don't realize about Invisible Children is that they want to start a war in Africa. They're supporting a bill passed 2 years ago that allows military intervention. I'd love to hear the armchair-activists flooding Facebook support that claim while walking around with a t-shirt bought from Invisible Children with "End A War" plastered on the front.
ZonieDiver
03-08-2012, 11:33
what in the fuck am I reading here???
"When did America become the World Police?" - easy answer; since nobody else would. This world sucks, and if we have the ability to bring a guy like Kony to justice or into a body bag - then by all means do it. This is what we do, and have been doing for years. Stop acting like you just walked in on your wife being fucked by your neighbor.
You people make it sound like the things we do around the world that seemingly have no interests to the US is something new.
"Not at the cost of our troops lives!!" - Seriously WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to judge that?! This is an all volunteer military and so is SOCOM - anybody who volunteers for a SOF unit, ESPECIALLY for SF, already knows he will be deployed all over the world. Not just in combat zones like Iraq/Afghanistan.
To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why? Because they were killing Colombians and getting Americans high? I can see the huge threat to the American way of life from here.. not (well except maybe protecting those pipelines.. but still you know what I mean). But the reality is - what SF has done and continues to do down there is a noble and amazing cause to help those people.
And to those people spouting off nonsense like "Don't send OUR troops there!" that makes them feel like patriots and troop supporters. The guys on the ground aren't E1s from the 82nd, they are shooters who want nothing more then to be doing the job they signed up for. They don't need or want risk averse civilians like yourselves to speak on their behalf. So simply STFU.
Nobody asked Batman to to fight crime in Gotham - he just did it because he had the means and the heart when nobody else did. FYI.
And if you are getting pissed off because of my rant - then most likely I am targeting YOU.
Dknob OUT!
Wow, just WOW!
Some of the people making those comments are far from just being civilians.
I think some people's issues might be with foreign policy / military intervention decisions being made in large part due to a "slick" (I didn't particularly think so, but obviously many did/do) PR video.
And, in case you missed it, some of the people who made some of the comments that induced your F-word laced rant are far from just being civilians!
charlietwo
03-08-2012, 11:40
Good rundown from theblaze.com ref IC here (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-there-more-to-the-invisible-children-story-in-uganda-than-meets-the-eye/)
Guymullins
03-08-2012, 11:50
what in the fuck am I reading here???
"When did America become the World Police?" - easy answer; since nobody else would. This world sucks, and if we have the ability to bring a guy like Kony to justice or into a body bag - then by all means do it. This is what we do, and have been doing for years. Stop acting like you just walked in on your wife being fucked by your neighbor.
You people make it sound like the things we do around the world that seemingly have no interests to the US is something new.
"Not at the cost of our troops lives!!" - Seriously WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to judge that?!
This is an all volunteer military and so is SOCOM - anybody who volunteers for a SOF unit, ESPECIALLY for SF, already knows he will be deployed all over the world. Not just in combat zones like Iraq/Afghanistan.
To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why? Because they were killing Colombians and getting Americans high? I can see the huge threat to the American way of life from here.. not (well except maybe protecting those pipelines.. but still you know what I mean). But the reality is - what SF has done and continues to do down there is a noble and amazing cause to help those people.
And to those people spouting off nonsense like "Don't send OUR troops there!" that makes them feel like patriots and troop supporters. The guys on the ground aren't E1s from the 82nd, they are shooters who want nothing more then to be doing the job they signed up for. They don't need or want risk averse civilians like yourselves to speak on their behalf. So simply STFU.
Nobody asked Batman to to fight crime in Gotham - he just did it because he had the means and the heart when nobody else did. FYI.
And if you are getting pissed off because of my rant - then most likely I am targeting YOU.
Dknob OUT!
Some reasons why America finds itself the worlds policeman, is the quality of cop in Africa. We have a policeman marking the road at an accident scene using the barrel of his rifle. This may seem a little careless to an American, but it is not really a problem here in South Africa because policemen have lost or sold 70 000 weapons in the last two years, so it is quite easy to replace.
To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why?
Dknob OUT!
Bogota per diem.
Seriously, though, as to the rest of your post-I understand where you're coming from and concur with most of it.
Team Sergeant
03-08-2012, 12:30
what in the fuck am I reading here???
"When did America become the World Police?" - easy answer; since nobody else would. This world sucks, and if we have the ability to bring a guy like Kony to justice or into a body bag - then by all means do it. This is what we do, and have been doing for years. Stop acting like you just walked in on your wife being fucked by your neighbor.
You people make it sound like the things we do around the world that seemingly have no interests to the US is something new.
"Not at the cost of our troops lives!!" - Seriously WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to judge that?!
This is an all volunteer military and so is SOCOM - anybody who volunteers for a SOF unit, ESPECIALLY for SF, already knows he will be deployed all over the world. Not just in combat zones like Iraq/Afghanistan.
To all the SF guys who have conducted FID deployments and JCETs in places wit no significant interest to the US, how is this any different? You risked your lives in Colombia to stop the FARC and the cartels - why? Because they were killing Colombians and getting Americans high? I can see the huge threat to the American way of life from here.. not (well except maybe protecting those pipelines.. but still you know what I mean). But the reality is - what SF has done and continues to do down there is a noble and amazing cause to help those people.
And to those people spouting off nonsense like "Don't send OUR troops there!" that makes them feel like patriots and troop supporters. The guys on the ground aren't E1s from the 82nd, they are shooters who want nothing more then to be doing the job they signed up for. They don't need or want risk averse civilians like yourselves to speak on their behalf. So simply STFU.
Nobody asked Batman to to fight crime in Gotham - he just did it because he had the means and the heart when nobody else did. FYI.
And if you are getting pissed off because of my rant - then most likely I am targeting YOU.
Dknob OUT!
Dknob,
Cool your jets. Learn to make your point without offending the members. Your point is well taken without all the expletives. Discussion is a great thing, try it.;)
Team Sergeant
Wow, just WOW!
Some of the people making those comments are far from just being civilians.
I think some people's issues might be with foreign policy / military intervention decisions being made in large part due to a "slick" (I didn't particularly think so, but obviously many did/do) PR video.
And, in case you missed it, some of the people who made some of the comments that induced your F-word laced rant are far from just being civilians!
A friend from SS.com pointed something out minutes ago, and it warrants no response or contradiction as it is set in stone. It's your own motto for christ's sake.
De Oppresso Liber.
When did that apply to Americans only??
Take away the video for a second - I remember hearing about Kony back in 2006 - 2007 time frame. When he ceased operations in Uganda and brought his scourge upon the Congolese. The media and these hipsters talk about child soldiers, rape, and murder. The reality is so much worse.
I think most of you will remember (maybe) how he attacked villages and his forces cannibalized people.
This topic isn't for debate. Free the oppressed, right??
Dknob,
Cool your jets. Learn to make your point without offending the members. Your point is well taken without all the expletives. Discussion is a great thing, try it.;)
Team Sergeant
You got it, TS.
Emotions and keyboard campaigns don't mix well.
ZonieDiver
03-08-2012, 13:15
A friend from SS.com pointed something out minutes ago, and it warrants no response or contradiction as it is set in stone. It's your own motto for christ's sake.
De Oppresso Liber.
When did that apply to Americans only??
Take away the video for a second - I remember hearing about Kony back in 2006 - 2007 time frame. When he ceased operations in Uganda and brought his scourge upon the Congolese. The media and these hipsters talk about child soldiers, rape, and murder. The reality is so much worse.
I think most of you will remember (maybe) how he attacked villages and his forces cannibalized people.
This topic isn't for debate. Free the oppressed, right??
I don't think very many would contradict what you say in regard to Kony and the LRA. I don't.
I am fully aware, as are some of the member's you slammed, of the meaning of De Oppresso Liber. However, the history of the world since the advent of Special Forces and its motto is replete with examples where peoples were subjgated, humiliated, killed, forced into being refugees, etc. and the US did NOT intervene. Off the top of my head, let's see... oh, yeah, how about Rwanda? While you, or I, may think a particular situation is rife for intervention, that doesn't mean it is, or should be done.
I think the point that some were trying to make in regard to "world's policeman" in general, and Africa in particular, is "why here" and "why now"? Kony is far from the only problem. When he is gone, will another almost immediately take his "place" as a scourge on humanity?
All I was trying to point out is that some the opinions with which you vehemently differed were voiced by people who were not "just civilians", and may have experience, some extensive, in that particular area of the world.
Thanks for the reasoned response.
Expense 2011 breakdown below. Response to financial concerns here (http://s3.amazonaws.com/www.invisiblechildren.com/critiques.html).
21344
what in the fuck am I reading here???
That's pretty much what I thought when I was reading your post.
Having a 1+ in profanity is not impressive and, IMO, actually had the effect of diluting any salient points you might have made in that post to nearly zero.
Richard :munchin
.............Take away the video for a second - I remember hearing about Kony back in 2006 - 2007 time frame..........
US Military troops have been kicking around in Africa since shortly after WW II.
Lots of SF mostly everywhere - but also lots of just about every other MOS - and the other sister services.
All of us did the job we were sent to do at the time.
We all have our opinions of Africa - but we're not a Merc Force running around the Congo - not to say we didn't run around Zaire but................damn, I hated that parade.
...idealism and swear words...
Dknob, those civilians that you disparage are the ones that decide where we go. For them not to ask questions of our government regarding strategy, endstate, and cost estimate when using our military, would be a betrayal of the faith that military action is used for justifiable reasons. If good answers can be given to the hard questions, what is wrong with asking them? If the answer is we have no strategy or endstate... it starts the discussion.
Most SF guys realize the 2nd and 3rd order effects of presence on the ground and realize that these situations are not as cut and dry as the slick editing on the video makes it seem. As to your comment regarding shooters just wanting to do their job, in Special Forces, when we are asked to go up a hill, we ask "Why? What do you seek to accomplish? What is the tactical advantage? Is there a better hill?" Many times we have no say, but at least, it improves our understanding of the situation and improves our decision-making when we are on the ground.
Of course, whether I want to go or how many oppressed persons I want to liberate or whether I think I'm Batman never plays into the equation, the government decides and I don't think it is too much to ask for ANYONE that calls for our troops to be deployed to be informed beyond a 30 minute youtube video.
-a shooter
Our involvement in Africa at this juncture would, I believe, be much more extensive and intense were sand worth big money. :D
Mr Furious
03-08-2012, 17:17
For once Snookie actually makes some sense. http://tinyurl.com/8xpc2q9
DevilSide
03-08-2012, 17:36
I realize Africa has always been like this, and that arresting/killing this guy might not change very much, but to me it's a start. We can set up disaster relief, medical clinics to fight malaria, disease, etc. to try and help them but it doesn't make much better when people like this guy are doing whatever they want, and the local governments are too incompetent and corrupt themselves, to do anything about it. Like it was said earlier, only way to stop these people is to shoot them in the face. I'm not saying this because of a 30 minute video, it might be whatever, but I think it's done some good to expose people to the reality, but I think our help, and that of the west, is wanted by the people. This is just my $.02, part of the reason I decided to become a soldier is to do some good not just for my country but hopefully for others in the world too, I know that sounds really idealistic, but I'm down to help others as much as I can.
MTN Medic
03-08-2012, 19:55
Watch the video. Sing along...All they are sayyyying is give war a chance.
The organization brought the public pressure to bear on the Obama administration that resulted in the current deployment. It's a social media campaign to keep the pressure on congress to actually finish what we started. Not a bad thing.
This movement is bringing a lot of positive attention to SF and their mission re: UW/FID. I would have thought that's a good thing. The Navy would know what to do with this public relations windfall.
I have questions about their financial transparency and I doubt they'll get my money, but they address that issue as well. At least they aren't saying lets all get together in a drum circle for world peace. They're saying put pressure on your representatives to finish the job and kill this bastard.
Some us us are giving war a chance... and not making/spending millions doing it. Just saying Hoss.
MTN Medic
03-08-2012, 20:06
So by all means, lets teach our children not to care. Lets teach them that we adults are not able to practice what we teach. I don't know about you, but I think it is a good thing when you have a 14 year old little girl begin to understand how lucky she has it to be born in the USA. That she has it better than a vast majority of people on an entire continent. That she begins to ask questions about how the US develops its Foreign Policy, right wrong or indifferent. I guess it doesn't matter..... because we adults say it doesn't matter.
I say BULLSHIT. I am not advocating for the US to go in and right every wrong in the world. But I am advocating for our children to learn about the world around them, and if things like this get them asking questions, I don't see it as a bad thing.
Let's instead teach our children to read up on their history and their current events. I did this in school and it worked marvels. I continue this trend to this day and that is why I know that this shit doesn't work. Do you remember all the emphasis placed on Darfur? Hell yeah!! What did we do there? Nothing. Why? Because that country (as well as more and more of Africa is RUN by China).
Don't get angry before getting educated on the matter. Some of us on this board; this is our office. You want to kill Kony? With the millions that were donated to these asshats, I am sure that me and a couple of hobos off the street could end Koney's miserable existence. But... it wont do a thing. There will be another speed freak kid stealer to take his place the next drug addled morning.
yeah this sums up the latest fad
I'm a guy who should stay in General Discussions and regrets when he strays. All of your points are well taken. Thank you for your service.
Mugwump,
I did not mean to stifle any of your commentary or seem like I was pulling a "QP trump card." My caveat was in case I seemed as though I was talking down to someone of experience, having nothing to go on to assume this was or wasn't the case. I tend to check profiles to tailor my discussion depending on the other party's background. I in no way dismiss your opinion because of a lack of credentials and encourage the dialogue. My main issue was the opinion that we need to support this NGO just because they support war.
Tree Potato
03-08-2012, 20:37
It's interesting to see the same debates and concerns here as are being discussed in the halls at Air War College.
Do you QPs think the scale and persistence of the atrocities factor into necessitating a response? Or is it purely public pressure? Also, how do you see evolving R2P "doctrine" informing this decision making, especially in light of lessons learned from Libya?
ZonieDiver
03-08-2012, 20:39
mugwump,
While I may not agree with your position, I deeply appreciate the information you brought to this discussion. Please continue to do so...
The Reaper
03-08-2012, 20:40
mugwump,
While I may not agree with your position, I deeply appreciate the information you brought to this discussion. Please continue to do so...
Concur 100%.
TR
ZonieDiver
03-08-2012, 21:12
Do you QPs think the scale and persistence of the atrocities factor into necessitating a response? Or is it purely public pressure?
I alluded to this in a previous post. This is nothing new, even if you isolate Africa. In 2002, I took a job at a charter HS at the Phoenix Job Corps Center. Many of the Somalian "Lost Boys" were relocated here, in were in my classes. They wrote essays about what had happened to them which would ruin your whole week - and echoed, even amplified, the testimony of they young man in the "Kony 2012" video. Again, this is nothing new - or something isolated to that area with the LRA.
Expand the scope to the situation that drove us to put troops in Somalia (Black Hawk Down), Liberia under Doe, or even Syria today. Has Kony killed more, as quickly, as Assad? Look at Asia, and examine Cambodia under Pol Pot. Go back to the purges in China under Mao, or the Soviet Union under Stalin, or Hitler with the Jews, et al.
Few of these atrocities necessitated a response on our part. I'll repeat again what I said before. Why "here" and why "now"?
cat in the hat
03-08-2012, 21:42
Part of the reasoning goes with the DOD/State department attempts to apply the sunscreen principle in Africa. ie. a few troops now to put out little fires before extremism takes further root and/or spreads further.
Kony has in the past operated in South Sudan, with the recent separation North Sudan could "persuade" the LRA to make trouble for the new government in Juba. South Sudan has oil and natural gas reserves.
the LRA has been active in DROC so we trained up a light infantry BN in Kisangani a few years back with the hope that it would be used against LRA and some of the other groups. Congo has many minerals we like to use in our toys.
lots of other nations have a head start on the Dark continent and we are playing catch up trying to get more than a token foot in the door.
AND, without sounding like a conspiracy nut. we have troops in Uganda working with the UPDF SF group so that our CIC can point to a military operation that is not based on corporate greed (unless you really look deep). I have no doubt that as the election grows closer, he will use US involvement to his advantage.
and on top of all the above ideas. getting involved with the anti LRA effort is the right thing to do. outside of the base in Djibouti, most of the US military operating in the area are SF, PSYOP/MISO and CA (Army and Navy) we get more bang for the buck and can do more with less troops.
Mr Furious
03-08-2012, 21:55
I would rather have the country talking about current world events and conditions than relaying gossip over the recent rants of some pop tart celebutante. So I see some goodness to the viral video and the sudden awakening.
With that said, just in case you were even thinking about throwing your money at Invisible Children...let’s compare similar sized 501(c)(3) annual audited financials:
SOWF: $15.2M in total annual revenue. $5.5M in total expenses of which $4.8M went directly to the supported programs. $.68M for general management, staff compensation, and development costs.
Invisible Children: $13.7M in total annual revenue. $8.9M in total expenses of which $7.1M went directly to the supported programs. $1.73M for general management, staff compensation, and development costs.
Let’s compare the composition of those directly supported program expenses:
SOWF: $4.8M went to expenses and services for scholarships, counseling, financial aid, benefactor services, and wounded warrior programs.
Invisible Children: $7.1M went to expenses and services for program compensation costs, direct services, entertainment, film costs, postage, production costs, professional services, communications, travel and transportation amongst other direct expenses. I do read that ~$1M of net assets were restricted for rebuilding schools and scholarships in Central Africa. I read that they also spent that much in video equipment and transportation alone.
They are similar sized right now, but I have little doubt that Invisible Children will more than likely see a tremendous spike in their financial strength after their video went viral.
Both are registered and have a Combined Federal Campaign number. Your money and your choices. It’s pretty clear to me where my charitable contributions will continue to go. ;)
ZonieDiver
03-08-2012, 22:15
Entire post
I don't disagree at all. As a '70's SF'er from 8th Group, I am very much into early intervention to avoid later disasters.
As a former HS teacher, I'd love nothing more than an opportunity to discuss such issues with my students. I tried for years to get my district to have more about Africa and Asia in the curriculum, rather than being so Euro-centric. I think Afchic said it well when she mentioned that if 14 year olds are even discussing that... it is a good tihing!
WSJ
March 16, 2012, 7:09 PM ET
‘Kony 2012′ Director Jason Russell Detained After ‘Meltdown’
Excerpts:
A co-founder of the group that produced a popular online video about fugitive African rebel leader Joseph Kony was detained by police in San Diego and hospitalized after “exhibiting bizarre behavior” while dressed only in his underwear, according to police.
Jason Russell, 33 years old, was detained Thursday afternoon in the Pacific Beach area after he was found having “kind of a meltdown,” according to San Diego police officer Thomas Broxtermann.
Mr. Broxtermann said police responded to multiple complaints variously describing a white male “running around the street in his underwear,” “naked and masturbating and screaming” and “banging his hands on the ground and screaming incoherently.” The calls complaining began around 11:30 am.
Mr. Russell was handcuffed and taken to a Kaiser Permanente medical facility for a mental-health evaluation, Mr. Broxtermann said, adding that he wasn’t intoxicated and wasn’t criminally charged.
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/03/16/kony-2012-director-jason-russell-detained-after-meltdown/
ZonieDiver
03-18-2012, 16:04
They had a clip of that on our local news yesterday. "Meltdown" doesn't do him justice!
They had a clip of that on our local news yesterday. "Meltdown" doesn't do him justice!
Video here: TMZ. (http://www.tmz.com/2012/03/18/jason-russell-video-naked-meltdown-kony/)
Pat
...Congo has many minerals we like to use in our toys.
On that note:
US, EU and Japan challenge China's rare earth export restrictions with the WTO: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17348648
Army's rare earth concerns: http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/13/militarys-rare-earth-concerns/
Another point to consider is Iran's involvement[1] in Africa, IIRC, Africa is a known source of yellow cake uranium...
MOO: Kony is one(of many) bad dude, and even a double tap to the face may not do his victims justice, but, as QP Zonie Diver put it, the "why here, why now?" may not be the simple altruism of bringing him to justice; understand that terminating Joseph Kony may not be just about ending the slaughter, but a win-win for both those he victimizes and whatever business we have in the four countries he roams.
[1]http://www.economist.com/node/15453225
Well, the internet generation my have forgotten about this guy .....
U.S. Special Forces help in the hunt for Kony.
http://start.toshiba.com/news/read.php?id=19057390&ps=1018&cat=&cps=0&lang=en&page=1
(Let me know if the link is good and it can be opened. I got it off my 'Toshibia' homepage. SD)
:munchin
Well, the internet generation my have forgotten about this guy .....
U.S. Special Forces help in the hunt for Kony.
http://start.toshiba.com/news/read.php?id=19057390&ps=1018&cat=&cps=0&lang=en&page=1
(Let me know if the lnk is good and it can be opened. I got it off my 'Toshibia' homepage. SD)
:munchin
Link worked fine for me.
Ugandan army says Sudan is backing Joseph Kony's LRA
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17890432
"The Ugandan army says the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) led by Joseph Kony is being supported and supplied by the Sudanese government.
The LRA is accused of rape, mutilation, murder and the recruitment of child soldiers........."
Uganda: LRA rebel Caesar Achellam in row over amnesty
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18199001
"A senior commander in the rebel Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) should be granted amnesty just like other LRA fighters, his lawyer has told the BBC.
But Uganda's public prosecutor has said the amnesty law does not apply to Caesar Acellam because he was one of the top rebel military strategists.
Mr Acellam is in a Ugandan army base in South Sudan, two weeks after being found in the Central African Republic......................"
So they offer amnesty to LRA soldiers who turn themselves in - catch Acellam - and he tries to claim amnesty?
I don't think so, Caesar.