Another skydiving death at Perris

[Roguish Lawyer]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/skydiver-killed-perris-navy-seals.html

[Peregrino]

Darwin works.

[Guymullins]

RIP Sean, 8000 jumps is a lot to have made such a mistake. Maybe it was turbulence or a collapsed cell, but it must be said that jumping with a bush hat is a bit stupid.

[koz]

Reports are he got too deep in the corner (270 turn to land) and tried to dig out on his risers. This was on a speed round. He apparently hit the edge water going 60-70 mph.

Trying to dig out with your rear risers will never work. I've seen more than one really bad accident with guys trying to save it on the rears. Too much rear riser will create a high speed stall by making too high an angle of attack.

[Guymullins]

Yes, I never understood the rear riser story. A stall at high speed takes away your last chance of not breaking yourself too badly by taking away the only friend you have, lift. You can control things better just using brakes.

[longrange1947]

Just goes to show that no matter who you are, how much you have done it, you will screw up. Hopefully not badly, as in this case.

RIP, Blue Skys.

[Papa Zero Three]

Yes, I never understood the rear riser story. You can control things better just using brakes.


If you are an active skydiver, I suggest you get with a canopy control coach at your DZ so that you can gain a better grasp on the usage of risers in sport parachuting. If no coach(ing) is available I suggest you read Brain Germains book The Parachute and it's pilot (http://www.bigairsportz.com/publishing.php#parachute) to help you on your way to understanding rear riser use among many other valuable skills.

[mojaveman]

My company has a facility right across the road from the Perris Valley Skydiving Center so every time an ambulance or coroners vehicle goes by we know that there was an accident out there. What get's me is that it always seems like the victims have a lot of experience.

[The Reaper]

My company has a facility right across the road from the Perris Valley Skydiving Center so every time an ambulance or coroners vehicle goes by we know that there was an accident out there. What get's me is that it always seems like the victims have a lot of experience.

In my experience, people get hurt from their own actions while jumping with a very few jumps, or a lot of jumps.

Usually under 20, or over 500. In between is pretty rare.

I guess in between those numbers (plus or minus) you are still well-trained enough to know better, and not sufficiently jaded to think that you can get away with it.

Check out USPA's magazine for the incident reports.

TR

[Ambush Master]

My company has a facility right across the road from the Perris Valley Skydiving Center so every time an ambulance or coroners vehicle goes by we know that there was an accident out there. What get's me is that it always seems like the victims have a lot of experience.

I just got back into the Sport a couple of years ago, after close to a 30 year hiatus. I had less than a half-dozen jumps, on an other than round canopy (986 ttl), and have adapted to the "Sport of Today" somewhat quickly. The problems @ Perris are systemic, and it happens in the more senior Jumpers. All of the folks that burned in out there in the past couple of years had a combined total of close to +/- 50K TOTAL JUMPS!! Personally, I don't care if I ever see a "Large Star/Formation" as a participant again. What has killed most of these folks is being addressed by the USPA, and that has been collisions between folks under perfectly good/safe canopies!! The latest, was an attempted "Swoop" which is usually an extremely radical and steep approach to landing, that brings you in, @ extreme speeds and angles of approach, that if done succefully, you fly for a considerable distance in close proximity to the GROUND, if not......you eat it!!

Later
Martin

[SF_BHT]

AM is spot on.

I have a few jumps and when I arrived on island I went out to the DZ here and spent a Saturday and after that experience I have nev been back in 2 yrs. they were just a accident waiting to happen and I had survived tooo many near misses in my younger years to get killed with a bunch of idiots.....

I do jump sometimes when I get up to the states......

[mojaveman]

It was actually worse there about twenty years ago.

Contaminated fuel and an inexperienced pilot led to the crash of a Twin Otter on take off that killed about 15 people. An ill maintained DC-3 caught on fire while going down the runway but luckily everyone got out in time. Jumpers showing up for manifest after smoking ganja in the parking lot or stumbling out of the bar. It was a pretty wild. The owners were actually pretty nice and down to earth people though. Don't know who runs it now.

[Guymullins]

If you are an active skydiver, I suggest you get with a canopy control coach at your DZ so that you can gain a better grasp on the usage of risers in sport parachuting. If no coach(ing) is available I suggest you read Brain Germains book The Parachute and it's pilot (http://www.bigairsportz.com/publishing.php#parachute) to help you on your way to understanding rear riser use among many other valuable skills.

I unfortunately had to give up sport parachuting some time ago due to a non-parachuting injury. I will however look for the Germain book as I am always eager to learn. I am sure things have progressed from when the National Team I captained won the Bronze Medal at the World Championships of RW and the Gold at the Deutchland Cup of CRW. My team only managed to finish 5th at the First World Cup of CRW in France so any information, even in retrospect, is valued.

[Papa Zero Three]

Guy, sorry to hear you are no longer able to jump. A lot has changed since the 80's with regards to skydiving equipment and even competition formats you may be familiar with have been modified quite a bit.

In this instance, swooping or canopy piloting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxtm13qvHJU&feature=player_embedded#!) is now it's own competitive discipline, something that didn't exist not long ago. Sadly, a lot of people end up with hardware in them and or dead from botched swoops, most of these accidents occur in a non competitive setting. In this case, this was an actual competition and the deceased was an accomplished canopy pilot. Germain's book covers a lot of good info on canopy flight in general, which might seem old hat to you, but there is some good info on swooping specifically that may be of interest to you. If you Google his name, I am positive you will also come across plenty of videos he's made and papers he has written on canopy flight.

[PSM]

Contaminated fuel, inexperienced pilots and a mechanical problem led to the crash of a Twin Otter on take off that killed about 15 people.

I knew that plane, N141GW, well. It was from our stable at Golden West Airlines. After we went out of business, it went to Honduras for awhile then PV bought or leased it and changed the N number to 141PV. I don't recall a mechanical problem on that flight but I believe the pilot feathered the wrong prop when the bad fuel shut an engine down. Ironically, the lead NTSB investigator was a former GWA pilot and had a lot of time in 141GW.

Pat

[Guymullins]

Guy, sorry to hear you are no longer able to jump. A lot has changed since the 80's with regards to skydiving equipment and even competition formats you may be familiar with have been modified quite a bit.

In this instance, swooping or canopy piloting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxtm13qvHJU&feature=player_embedded#!) is now it's own competitive discipline, something that didn't exist not long ago. Sadly, a lot of people end up with hardware in them and or dead from botched swoops, most of these accidents occur in a non competitive setting. In this case, this was an actual competition and the deceased was an accomplished canopy pilot. Germain's book covers a lot of good info on canopy flight in general, which might seem old hat to you, but there is some good info on swooping specifically that may be of interest to you. If you Google his name, I am positive you will also come across plenty of videos he's made and papers he has written on canopy flight.
P03, I managed to read quite a big extract of Germains book on the link you provided. Well written and he seems to know his stuff. I think the big strides made in canopy performance is the biggest change from my day. You couldnt get a canopy to wrap into twists during a turn even with a front riser turn for instance. We all used to spiral in with last second flares, but didnt have the luxury of water to land in, although water at 60mph is like cement .My last canopy was a Unit3 which I picked up as a super bargain after the World Champs at Zephyr Hills Florida. Only on getting home did I find out why the discount. It was the worlds most reluctant-to-open canopy. I never cut it away, but you needed real patience and a lot of wrestling with risers to get it to open in time. It was however a great canopy to hook turn and flare. I never hurt myself with it even when it split in two at a practice round at the next world meet. I was too low to cut away, due to the leisurely opening, so rode the two bits in expecting to break some bones at the very least. To my surprise, and that of the spectators, i did a tip toe landing. Be that as it may, I saw plenty of bad crashes and a couple of fatalities swooping in to a flashy landing. Times have changed in competition events as you say. We were the first generation CRW fliers and after trying to stall off the top in the 4 way event found that our pilot chutes were sometimes getting tangled with the canopy below, leading to catastrophic stack collapse. We didnt have special gear and were using Cruize Lites with regular bridal cords and pilot chutes. We then decided that a spiral off the top was the next best thing and we got very good at that rather slow method and won some international competitions that way. But them we came up against special equipment in the Us and Aussie teams that allowed them to stall off the top without pilot chute entanglement, and suddenly we were a couple of points behind with no way to get faster. Sorry for going on a bit, but it is not often one can talk with another who knows what the hell one is talking about.

[Roguish Lawyer]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-skydiving-deaths-20120222,0,4607144.story

[2018commo]

I unfortunately had to give up sport parachuting some time ago due to a non-parachuting injury. I will however look for the Germain book as I am always eager to learn. I am sure things have progressed from when the National Team I captained won the Bronze Medal at the World Championships of RW and the Gold at the Deutchland Cup of CRW. My team only managed to finish 5th at the First World Cup of CRW in France so any information, even in retrospect, is valued.

Guy,
I was on the USA 8 way team in 1988, is that the event in France you mentioned. When not Team USA we were known as Jump Street.
Arnold

[Guymullins]

Guy,
I was on the USA 8 way team in 1988, is that the event in France you mentioned. When not Team USA we were known as Jump Street.
Arnold

No, Arnold, I was well out of it by then. My first World Champs in RW was at Z-Hills in 1981 where my team placed 5th. First was the USA , as usual, in the guise of Mirror Image I think the teams name was. The CRW World Cup I attended was at La Palisse in France in 1980 and the German Cup was held just a week earlier.
The second RW World Champs I attended was in South Africa in 1983 and I was forced to give up skydiving in 1985 due to injuries. I was more fond of 8 Way RW and was national champion 5 years in succession from 80 to 84, while coming second in all those years in the 4 Way RW. Competed in the CRW 4 Way Rotation event at German Cup and World Cup and was National Champion every year I competed. I remain friends to this day with the American who owned Z-Hills Parachute centre, Jim Hooper. Jim sold up and became a war correspondent and author and now lives in London UK. I had lunch with him two moths ago when I was in London to launch my book.