View Full Version : Euro (€) Zone Problems And Youth Unemployment
Here's a problem that you don't see discussed as much when reading about the Euro issues - the comparative subset of the unemployment rates of 16-24 year olds which are statistically labeled NEET (Not in Education, Employment, or Training).
The UK has one of the lower rates at 22.5 percent, but the US isn't that far behind at 18 percent.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
For London Youth, Down and Out Is Way of Life
NYT, 15 Feb 2012
Perhaps the most debilitating consequence of the euro zone’s economic downturn and its debt-driven austerity crusade has been the soaring rate of youth unemployment. Spain’s jobless rate for people ages 16 to 24 is approaching 50 percent. Greece’s is 48 percent, and Portugal’s and Italy’s, 30 percent. Here in Britain, the rate is 22.3 percent, the highest since such data began being collected in 1992. (The comparable rate for Americans is 18 percent.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/16/business/global/for-london-youth-down-and-out-is-way-of-life.html
No problem.
All countries have to do is pass a law that every company with over $1 million in income has to hire 3 people between the stated ages.
I can fix world hunger also. Just feed everybody.
We have several friends in the UK & Scotland. We have talked some of the problem. In the UK kids finish school at 16. Unless they go to college, which gives them another couple years to mature. Putting 16yos in the labor market doesn't work.
For all the progressive socialistic bureaucratic infrastructure they have, the kids get no help.. They end up on the dole or working low level entry jobs.
I also think the kids are taught from grade school that they need not work, because the system will provide, so there is little incentive to excel.
I suspect that all of the EU is similar.
They breed a welfare state...
:mad:
I also think the kids are taught from grade school that they need not work, because the system will provide, so there is little incentive to excel.
They breed a welfare state...
:mad:
I just watch a 10min discussion on CNBC Squawk Box about barry's 2013 budget. The questions dealt with the extension of unemployment comp FOREVER.
The D's say we MUST extend..
The R's call it de facto welfare.
People being paid not to work or look for work..
I think it is welfare.
Eu is US...
Dozer523
02-16-2012, 08:02
16-24 year olds, not in Education, not Employment, not being Trained
Strong, stupid, easily influenced/manipulated, and in Europe.
What could possibly go wrong?
Strong, stupid, easily influenced/manipulated, and in Europe.
What could possibly go wrong?
Might wanna keep an eye out for a resurgence of the Freikorps over there... ;)
Richard :munchin
In the UK kids finish school at 16. Unless they go to college, which gives them another couple years to mature.
Sir, I believe you forgot to mention that some European countries have a more differentiated school system than the US. AFAIK the legal age in the US to drop out of high school is 16. The legal age to finish one's secondary education in England is also 16. In England the kids will have something to show for it, a diploma called the GCSE. The question of how much this is worth in today's economy is, of course, another question entirely. Many students with the inclination and parental backing to do so will elect to continue their education for another two years. This is called "sixth form". Upon graduation they will then usually be 18 years old, just like your average American HS student.
I also think the kids are taught from grade school that they need not work, because the system will provide, so there is little incentive to excel.
This has not been my experience coming up in the European school system.
mojaveman
02-16-2012, 09:29
Strong, stupid, easily influenced/manipulated, and in Europe.
What could possibly go wrong?
Sounds like a recipe for disaster...
Here's a problem that you don't see discussed as much when reading about the Euro issues - the comparative subset of the unemployment rates of 16-24 year olds which are statistically labeled NEET (Not in Education, Employment, or Training).
The UK has one of the lower rates at 22.5 percent, but the US isn't that far behind at 18 percent.
I bet you my life savings that we (the US) used different parameters to calculate our percentage. I would love to see the raw data behind this and know all the rules/exceptions that were used to pull it into a tidy little 18%.......
I would love to see the raw data behind this and know all the rules/exceptions that were used to pull it into a tidy little 18%.......
You can go to the DOL's web-site and track all the data they use for their computations.
Richard :munchin
Airbornelawyer
02-16-2012, 15:58
One thing to bear in mind is the aging of the European population. Their youth unemployment rates are higher not just because of the numerator - high numbers of unemployed - but also the denominator - relatively fewer young people compared to the USA. I attached graphs for Germany, Spain and the US to show the breakdown. Still, even when you adjust for the demographics, the difference between Europe and the US is strong.
The social and economic model in European welfare states is designed to protect the jobs of those already in the workforce, with generous welfare benefits to buy off everyone else. European businesses are closed shops, with few job openings and significant restrictions on hiring and firing to protect these workers. The regulatory state also creates barriers to entry which prevent entrepreneurs from starting competing businesses. It is not really socialism in many cases, but more like fascist corporatism, where unions, business owners and government officials collude to protect their interests.
And, as Margaret Thatcher observed, the system appears to work until eventually you run out of other people's money to fund it. The Germans were perfectly happy to fund Greece's welfare state as long as buying off the Greeks meant they had somewhere nice and sunny to go on their government-mandated six-weeks of vacation. But now European debt threatens their benefits too.
In many European countries, the young people's unemployment problem has another, darker [no pun intended] consequence. Because of low birthrates among native Europeans, not only is the population aging in general, but immigrants and minorities are an increasing percentage of the younger people who are there. So in France, for example, you have the same problem of high unemployment among the 16-24 year olds which the article highlights (I can't find current numbers, but France is somewhere in between; worse than Britain but better than Spain, Greece, Italy and Portugal). But in France, the unemployment rate among younger North Africans is significantly higher, likely greater than 50%.
This is worse than the problems in the US, by contrast, where minorities, especially black men, have much higher unemployment rates, not merely because of the raw percentages (16-24 as a whole, 18% or so, blacks aged 16-24, 30% or so), but because many immigrants and minorities, especially Muslims, are unassimilated. So the rioting we saw in France in the 2000s wasn't merely urban youths venting their frustration at low job prospects, but arguably a proto-insurgency among people who don't see themselves as French or European and who don't buy into the European social contract I noted above.
So the European social contract itself is threatened by the debt bomb, and potentially the most threatened are those for whom Europe and the whole Western value system means the least. In a few years, we may look back nostalgically on those Greek pseudo-anarchist rioters in the news of late.
So the European social contract itself is threatened by the debt bomb, and potentially the most threatened are those for whom Europe and the whole Western value system means the least. In a few years, we may look back nostalgically on those Greek pseudo-anarchist rioters in the news of late
Agreed, this could get out of hand fast, how long before these Greek cops return fire after these pics from Sunday? The cops have a right to go home at the end of their shift.
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/athens-in-flames/100244/
I just watch a 10min discussion on CNBC Squawk Box about barry's 2013 budget. The questions dealt with the extension of unemployment comp FOREVER.
The D's say we MUST extend..
The R's call it de facto welfare.
People being paid not to work or look for work..
I think it is welfare.
Eu is US...
We had two teenagers come in today to get a paper notorized. It basically stated that they would not be looking for a job in the next 12 months. They were trying to get some sort of assistance I guess. Funny thing is my daughter calls me saying, Daddy, they had me notorize two documents and then said they didn't have any money to pay for it and said they wouldn't have any money until the first of the month so what do I do.
My response: "Hold on to it until they come back with some money, I"m not the Department of Welfare". They elected to have her shred it and said they would get it done somewhere else for free.
:boohoo
The future is going to a really scary place.
So the rioting we saw in France in the 2000s wasn't merely urban youths venting their frustration at low job prospects, but arguably a proto-insurgency among people who don't see themselves as French or European and who don't buy into the European social contract I noted above.Is assimilation a one way or a two way street?
The West (broadly conceived) spent centuries defining itself what it was in terms of what it wasn't. As contact with "the other" increasingly becomes a feature of every day life, what can/should/might be done to the old ways so that different groups of people will be more willing to buy in to the system?
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
Is an oath of political alligience enough to keep the two-way street moving in good order? This oath says nothing about informed participation in the political process, civil conduct in everyday life, accepting core cultural values centering around individual rights. Nor does it lay out parameters for economic activity that balances one's individual needs with those of the community.
GratefulCitizen
02-16-2012, 21:55
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
Just make anyone who hasn't been a citizen for at least 10 years ineligible for social services, welfare, EIC, etc.
Do that, and the problem will solve itself.
People will discover that assimilation is the surest route to prosperity.
Once they've had to walk the path, they will demand that those who follow do the same.
Just make anyone who hasn't been a citizen for at least 10 years ineligible for social services, welfare, EIC, etc. Do that, and the problem will solve itself.
Unfortunately this does not address the problems with deadbeats who have been citizens for generations. In the case of Europe is it the recent immigrants who are tipping the scales of the debt crisis, or is it the embedded welfare state culture of the region for generations? The unassimilated immigrants are not blameless, they will be the scapegoat, but were they the root cause of Europe's troubles?
mojaveman
02-16-2012, 22:52
One thing I noticed when I was living and working in Germany about ten years ago was a career retraining merry go round of sorts for the young and unemployed. I worked at one of the government sponsored career training centers and taught English specifically to young unemployed people. They were being trained in office skills, sales, banking, IT and a few others. Some of the youths that I talked to had already been through more than one program and were still chronically unemployed. At least attending the training though gave them something constructive to do with their time. Heck, I liked the programs because I was making about 30 Euros an hour.
People will discover that assimilation is the surest route to prosperity.This is a compelling interpretation of American history and of European history--until one bothers to study either.
This is a compelling interpretation of American history and of European history--until one bothers to study either.
Agreed. I know quite a few folks who don't speak a word of English and are very prosperous in comparison to their assimilated brethren, that said, I am would not be surprised if said individuals tax returns were *un-assimilated* as well.
MOO: It is a matter of working the economic system(or against it - until you get caught), the more latitude a system allows for(i.e. lightly regulated free market), the more people can(whether they have the patience, work ethic etc. to do it is up to the individual) prosper through it; the more restrictive, less of those who prosper(except the well connected elite).
My .0002
Is an oath of political alligience enough to keep the two-way street moving in good order? This oath says nothing about informed participation in the political process, civil conduct in everyday life, accepting core cultural values centering around individual rights. Nor does it lay out parameters for economic activity that balances one's individual needs with those of the community.
This oath is but one step - albeit IMO an important step that gets the assimilation discussion moving in the right direction. It is not the end but the beginning.
Speaking of beginnings - IMO, generally speaking, not breaking the law of the country in which one seeks to assimilate is also important - especially when you initially enter that country.
YMMV
GratefulCitizen
02-17-2012, 13:31
Agreed. I know quite a few folks who don't speak a word of English and are very prosperous in comparison to their assimilated brethren, that said, I am would not be surprised if said individuals tax returns were *un-assimilated* as well.
MOO: It is a matter of working the economic system(or against it - until you get caught), the more latitude a system allows for(i.e. lightly regulated free market), the more people can(whether they have the patience, work ethic etc. to do it is up to the individual) prosper through it; the more restrictive, less of those who prosper(except the well connected elite).
My .0002
That's the point I was trying to make.
It's about the system, not the language.
Some ideas (coming from some cultures) tend to be better than others.
Look at the relationship between English Common Law and the top ten countries by economic freedom.
http://www.heritage.org/index/default