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View Full Version : Wear and tear, then and now???????


alelks
01-30-2012, 21:22
Here's a question.

Back in the old days we would jump in and walk for days to get to either the objective or our area of operation. Since then the groups have extensively mechanized.

I know from my generation while serving and in particular our later years after retiring we suffer from many problems associated with those long walks with heavy rucks on and jumping out of aircraft. Most of the problems seem to be with our backs and knees.


I'm curious to know in this time and age if those in the medical field are seeing the same problems that plagued the older generation while they were serving in GP.

Peregrino
01-30-2012, 21:58
Al - I think we're going to see an even worse problem as time passes for this generation. Their "fighting load" is as heavy as some of the non-como rucks we used to carry. Add wearing it all day, every day and include the wear and tear of bouncing around in those vehicles you mentioned, and I hope the "kids" are documenting the damage better than we did. Arthritis, especially spinal, is a royal PITA as we both know. What they'll get from the VA when they've finished (after the current administration and its successors get through gutting it) doesn't bear thinking about.

Sarski
01-31-2012, 00:49
I wonder if being mechanized might take its toll in other ways such as not having built up the body over time and endurance to withstand the wear and tear eventually brought on by war and the duties you ground forces perform. They don't call it the last hard class for nothing...

Please note I am not making comparissons in skill or ability to wage war mechanized or not.

Brush Okie
01-31-2012, 01:15
Only time will tell but IMHO sitting in those screwed up seats for hours is going to be worse than the heavy rucking in some ways. One of the big problems with cops is back problems from sitting all day in a patrol car with an uneven and heavy load on their bodies. Also the body armor and load vest add weight to the upper torso so that when you lean over it adds weight at the end of a lever to the back thus causing more back injuries. I would like to see the loads put lower back on to the hips. I would also like to see better ergonomic seating in the vehicles since the Army spends so much time in them. Last but not least I would like to see our troops get out of the vehicles more.

The Reaper
01-31-2012, 20:28
I see the SEALs and their Mk. V injuries being very similar to what our guys get in armored vehicles, especially being IEDed.

TR

MILON
02-01-2012, 03:42
I'm a medic currently working in a BAS in the middle east and have been since last summer. Soldiers coming in with lower back/sacroiliac joint issues is a daily occurance with the majority of those patients running convoy missions for days and sometimes weeks on end. Acute problems center around muscular and neurological signs and symptoms that we usually treat with rest, pain medication and physical rehabilitation. There were also plenty of cases where soldiers with previous deployments would come in and complain that the back pain they felt during their first tour has been made worse this time around. Most of those patients had been through physical therapy and other treatments in between with mixed stories of success.

We try to do our best with these soldiers, but frankly, the body isn't designed to carry the amount of weight our gear amounts to. Some have argued, well, maybe these soldiers should do more PT and stretch and that would solve the problem. "If they were just in better shape!" Our sister BN had their medics come up with a mission stretching routine to be done during breaks in the route. Great idea and certainly not couter productive, but its not the golden ticket. We see soldiers of all shapes and sizes with the same problems.

Those are acute issues and I haven't read enough research on problems in the long term, but I would suspect this will be a problem our VA will be addressing in the next couple decades.

Milon

JJ_BPK
02-01-2012, 04:31
Some have argued, well, maybe these soldiers should do more PT and stretch and that would solve the problem. "If they were just in better shape!" Our sister BN had their medics come up with a mission stretching routine to be done during breaks in the route. Great idea and certainly not couter productive, but its not the golden ticket. We see soldiers of all shapes and sizes with the same problems.



Treating the symptoms, not the cause is counter productive.. :mad:

But then Mother Army has always had a problem distinguishing between the two.. :(

If all you have are size 6 boots and you need size 11,, fix the feet... :munchin

Vinny_ND
02-02-2012, 23:22
I'm a medic currently working in a BAS in the middle east and have been since last summer. Soldiers coming in with lower back/sacroiliac joint issues is a daily occurance with the majority of those patients running convoy missions for days and sometimes weeks on end. Acute problems center around muscular and neurological signs and symptoms that we usually treat with rest, pain medication and physical rehabilitation. There were also plenty of cases where soldiers with previous deployments would come in and complain that the back pain they felt during their first tour has been made worse this time around. Most of those patients had been through physical therapy and other treatments in between with mixed stories of success.

We try to do our best with these soldiers, but frankly, the body isn't designed to carry the amount of weight our gear amounts to. Some have argued, well, maybe these soldiers should do more PT and stretch and that would solve the problem. "If they were just in better shape!" Our sister BN had their medics come up with a mission stretching routine to be done during breaks in the route. Great idea and certainly not couter productive, but its not the golden ticket. We see soldiers of all shapes and sizes with the same problems.

Those are acute issues and I haven't read enough research on problems in the long term, but I would suspect this will be a problem our VA will be addressing in the next couple decades.

Milon

I wish you guys had a chiropractor. Back pain happens over long periods of time where the spine takes a toll from the wear and tear. Using pain meds to treat the symptoms will only aggravate the condition even more.

Brush Okie
02-02-2012, 23:50
Treating the symptoms, not the cause is counter productive.. :mad:

But then Mother Army has always had a problem distinguishing between the two.. :(

If all you have are size 6 boots and you need size 11,, fix the feet... :munchin

A truer statement has never been said.

Richard
03-31-2012, 12:21
Do you mean someone can do the job and not ache? Is he from Krypton?

As we used to say, "Here...take two of these propos and dar-von!"

So-called "Ranger Candy" - Tylenol - was another self-prescribed Rx in common use by nearly everyone who could tolerate it back then.

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

Ret10Echo
04-02-2012, 05:55
So-called "Ranger Candy" - Tylenol - was another self-prescribed Rx in common use by nearly everyone who could tolerate it back then.

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

My favorite therapy plan was the one where the PA told me to take Motrin - 3200mg/day x 30 days...then come back for a re-evaluation.

It didn't do much for the lower back pain, but I'm sure my liver enjoyed it....

Actually, after retirement and spending some consistent time with a chiropractor I found that although my L-spine is jacked-up, most of the pain was caused by my pelvis being screwed up and multiple nerve impingements. Periodic adjustments helps manage things fairly well.

I would assume that everyone else does the same thing I did and simply adjusts what "normal" is...

Dusty
04-02-2012, 06:44
I think injuries have remained fairly consistent all the way back to the Spartans, but the snivelling has inceased exponentially with each generation. ;)

tom kelly
04-02-2012, 11:18
I think injuries have remained fairly consistent all the way back to the Spartans, but the snivelling has inceased exponentially with each generation. ;)

How many parachute jumps with PAE bags, (with 300 lbs. medical equip. & supplies) main chute + reserve + weapon & basic load of ammo 120 rounds, 2 canteens of water & helmet" steel pot") Total wgt. incl. your own body wgt.(mine was 165 lbs.) was close to 500 lbs.+ hitting the ground at 27ft./sec. DID the Spartans make? The main concern was not the hard impact but getting twisted up to the connector link; which would likely cause a malfunction with the main chute and probably the reserve. Fortunately I did not have to make very many of these jumps, but one of them on Yomitan DZ on Okinawa, the old Japanese coral airbase busted me up. Bottom Line in 2008 had a bi-lateral knee replacement.
PS. The CG. of the 173 Abn. Birgade Francis Kelly (no relation) broke his leg during a "Hollywood" jump on Yomitan and as a result every jump he made while stationed on Okinawa was a water jump hence he earned the un-official nickname "Splash Kelly"....Regard's, TK

Dusty
04-02-2012, 11:47
How many parachute jumps with PAE bags, (with 300 lbs. medical equip. & supplies) main chute + reserve + weapon & basic load of ammo 120 rounds, 2 canteens of water & helmet" steel pot") Total wgt. incl. your own body wgt.(mine was 165 lbs.) was close to 500 lbs.+ hitting the ground at 27ft./sec. DID the Spartans make? The main concern was not the hard impact but getting twisted up to the connector link; which would likely cause a malfunction with the main chute and probably the reserve. Fortunately I did not have to make very many of these jumps, but one of them on Yomitan DZ on Okinawa, the old Japanese coral airbase busted me up. Bottom Line in 2008 had a bi-lateral knee replacement.
PS. The CG. of the 173 Abn. Birgade Francis Kelly (no relation) broke his leg during a "Hollywood" jump on Yomitan and as a result every jump he made while stationed on Okinawa was a water jump hence he earned the un-official nickname "Splash Kelly"....Regard's, TK

How many Persians did you kill while in testudo?

I hear you, Brother. I've got a f.cked up knee, 5 broken vertebrae, a shoulder that's been dislocated 4 times, broken ankle, hand and finger, three holes in my back, etc. I've run more than a few miles with big poundage in my ruck.

My point is that everybody gets f.cked up, you just seem to hear about it more, lately.

greenberetTFS
04-03-2012, 07:14
tom kelly

Some slight changes to your original post,but so very close needing just some miner modifications....... How many parachute jumps with PAE bags, (with 300 lbs. & supplies) main chute + reserve + weapon & basic load of ammo 240 rounds, 2 canteens of water & helmet" steel pot") Total wgt. incl. your own body wgt.(mine was 165 lbs.,mine was 240lbs)was close to 570 lbs.+ hitting the ground at 27 Ft./sec. DID the Spartans make? The main concern was not the hard impact but getting twisted up to the connector link; which would likely cause a malfunction with the main chute and probably the reserve. Fortunately I did not have to make very many of these jumps......I did approx. 7 of them and all with the 11th ABN Div....... They jumped us with full gear on every f**ken jump we made........ They were so damn gung-ho,and one of the toughest outfit I ever served in..........;)

Big Teddy :munchin